LDD-Lucid Day Dream

My first thread ★‿‿★


LDD-Lucid Day Dream


Have you ever been so interested in a skill that you find yourself imagining what can be done with it, actually experimenting in your mind? That is how I came upon this ability; Lucid day-dreaming. The concept is this: both the conscious and subconscious imagination can be advanced to the point that sleeping is no longer required to dream, the transition into dreaming becomes so instantaneous that lucidity is automatic. Perhaps most amazingly, with enough practice the conscious imagination can become stable enough to practice without even resting -or closing your eyes for that matter. Imagine being able to project scenes onto a canvas while you paint, or write music without an instrument, even fully experience and interact with a world as you describe it in writing. Eventually the practitioner can virtually interact with their environment by producing holographic inserts in their minds eye.

Of course as with common lucid dreaming, or like any art, it is not always easy starting out, much commitment is required to produce significant results, though the possible rewards are immense and worth the journey.


Some people are naturals of the LDD, though it is usually triggered by an interest in some hobby. Most often people will be thinking about something and their thoughts will interact with their imagination, giving them the ability to actively create and/or interact with their own day dream. This can be used practically to solve puzzles, or recreationally for exploration with the mind’s eye.


The most useful practice to hone this ability is through learning the basic artistic media’s; visual art, music, acting, and writing. The forethought required while doing these disciplines will train your mind to be able to create something before outwardly making it happen. Though almost any hobby, profession or skill is useful here, these arts specifically tune the ability to a very wide range of uses as they exercise the body’s senses to this goal. It is also useful to absorb ambient information to get a feel for something you wish to emulate. Or even invent things that are otherwise impossible or do not exist in this world. Combining multiple approaches adds a lot of versatility and assists greatly in this ability.

When you consciously enter into this mid-point between creation and action, you have achieved the state of LDDing


When your mind has become adept at thinking with virtual reality, you may wish to use it in the way you would a classical LD.

For starting off, the same practices used in meditation can help achieve the high degree of clear thinking required to learn this during the early stages, though as you progress your creations will become more stable in active environments, until you can go about your business while still using this ability at your whim.

Personally I am a natural with this, and have been doing it as long as I can remember, I am starting this thread for people to ask me questions and discuss this topic. Eventually I plan to use what we learn from working on this together to create a more comprehensive tutorial.


Enjoy c:

i have the impression that natural lucid dreamers like to visualize and daydream a lot, so it makes sense to develop these skills

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Originally Posted by Finnegan

Perhaps most amazingly, with enough practice the conscious imagination can become stable enough to practice without even resting -or closing your eyes for that matter. Imagine being able to project scenes onto a canvas while you paint, or write music without an instrument, even fully experience and interact with a world as you describe it in writing. Eventually the practitioner can virtually interact with their environment by producing holographic inserts in their minds eye.

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yes, it would be a superhuman skill :shock:, i guess some people can develop it ( i am thinking about Bethoven ).

did you already achieve this ?

Yes, I am a natural at both lucid dreaming and this, I have been using both of them as long as I can remember, and they greatly contributed to my choice of professionalizing as an artist. I have some professional experience many art forms and this ability definitely gives me an extra edge. I do commissioned paintings, as well as recreationally and sketch my imagination quite a bit, it has been amazing in improving my ability to reproduce my imagination, helping with creating original styles and ideas. I spent a few years as a street illusionist, my experience of this gave me the inspiration and motivation to method act that I actually had the powers I was showcasing, as well as quickly calculate the angles require to hold the illusion. After that I preformed as a improvisational comedian and method actor, and It would allow me to imagine myself in the characters world, to improve the realism of the setting. I'm currently going to university to learn novel writing, which I've chosen because I want to compose virtual orchestras of my dreams. Lately I've been writing song lyrics for a band (One of the members is on this site and we're urging the vocalist to join too), and quite a bit of love poems, my verse is mostly about fantastically surreal scenes that I would not have realized without my long time efforts with the LDD.

Haha, I listen to Beethoven a lot, he is a huge inspiration for me.

Just like their sleeping cousin, it takes motivation and effort starting out, though I'm sure it is possible to do without being a savant. That is why I've started this thread; so we can work on creating techniques useful for achieving this.

This is some 25th century idea. not only, while fully awake, achieve lucidity, but then even projecting your thoughts onto the real world, this is virtual reality on steroids!

First of all, this is an awesome idea, and yet, from my current point of view, almost impossible. when I discovered LD for the first time, I started practicing achieving lucid state while awake by doing several reality checks (pinch my nose, turning on and of a light switch, looking at my hands for irregularities and so on), after I concluded that I'm awake I begun on imagining what would I do if I was in a lucid dream and started to develop it inside my head : I would imagine the place where I've been at that moment, and start to jump high, run really, really fast, enhancing my vision, feel stronger and so on, i started to climb up buildings and then jump down, and right before i land, i would slow my fall and land safely.
personally, it was a tremendous effort to maintain clarity, but damn it was a good exercise, i remember i was trying to emulate the feeling of my body into my imagination and start experimenting with things like imagining a lighting ball body would cross my body and try to feel the effect. i was very close to almost just burst into a dream realm that it frightened me. one of the times that i tried it was during class, and it started to overcome my consciousness so much that i almost jumped from my sit (i just jiggled a little bit like a moron).

So if this idea is to become a valid tutorial, count me in. i would share any amount of experience and thoughts that i could gather from my mushy brain.

by the way, the idea of thought projection also accurred to me when i was trying to consciously enter a lucid dream (there's also a method called WILD - Wake initiated lucid dream, which is entering a lucid state while conscious) i begun imagining numbers and letters forming in front of my eyes and little by little building a sentence or an equation (couldn't concentrate enough to maintain clarity and write down what was happening), this thought alone made me trippy. yay

SO MY FRIENDS, SHALL WE BEGIN WITH THE EXPERIMENTS!!!!

Great thread. I believe that this is definitely possible. Monks and many other "spiritual" people have gotten so good at visualization that they have been able to actually see what they're imagining. Having said that, it will take considerable practice for the average person to get to that level. I'm diagnosed Bi-Polar and during manic swings I have achieved the LDD. I believe for me to achieve this without any aids would take a lot of practice with visualization and meditation. I hope we can develop a tutorial that uses specific methods to develop visualization skills to the point of the LDD. My only input at this point is practicing meditation and visualization everyday. Regardless of the results this will help us all with LDing anyways so there's nothing to lose. By the way the OP and I are friends and from knowing him for many years it's clear he is a savant. I don't doubt for a second he can achieve this on a regular basis.

Well, this seems like it would be pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing what happens. :)

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Originally Posted by Finnegan

Yes, I am a natural at both lucid dreaming and this, I have been using both of them as long as I can remember, and they greatly contributed to my choice of professionalizing as an artist. I have some professional experience many art forms and this ability definitely gives me an extra edge. I do commissioned paintings, as well as recreationally and sketch my imagination quite a bit, it has been amazing in improving my ability to reproduce my imagination, helping with creating original styles and ideas. I spent a few years as a street illusionist, my experience of this gave me the inspiration and motivation to method act that I actually had the powers I was showcasing, as well as quickly calculate the angles require to hold the illusion. After that I preformed as a improvisational comedian and method actor, and It would allow me to imagine myself in the characters world, to improve the realism of the setting. I'm currently going to university to learn novel writing, which I've chosen because I want to compose virtual orchestras of my dreams. Lately I've been writing song lyrics for a band (One of the members is on this site and we're urging the vocalist to join too), and quite a bit of love poems, my verse is mostly about fantastically surreal scenes that I would not have realized without my long time efforts with the LDD.

Haha, I listen to Beethoven a lot, he is a huge inspiration for me.

Just like their sleeping cousin, it takes motivation and effort starting out, though I'm sure it is possible to do without being a savant. That is why I've started this thread; so we can work on creating techniques useful for achieving this.

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So..I could spend the rest of my life in the lucid realm...AWESOME!! XD -but I wonder why I haven't heard of this..

So it isn't just me, I know GenericLDer personally, and he is amazing at using this skill for music, Vortex716, it sounds like you've had some experience. As I said it is often triggered by being very interested in something, in these cases; music and lucid dreaming. What we should be looking for as people gather with reports of having used this, is common factors in what caused it. Because what works for most people is likely to have success as a tutorial.

So I urge all of you, especially those who have already achieved this, to record your experiences with it, I am going to start a sister thread in lucid experiences to collect peoples experience with this. I will be watching over them and looking for some silver thread between them we can use for an induction technique. :)

PostScript99 - I don't think it's all that uncommon, just nobody has bothered to define it and give it a catchy name till I came along. I have a feeling that most people daydream at time's throughout their lives, and I'm just suggesting we can achieve the equivalent of WILDs and DILDs with daydreams too. Which happens to have some pretty big implications.

I really, really like this idea! Although, I don't entirely understand what goes on in a person's head while in a LDD....Do you just try to envision yourself in a consciously produced dream, with eyes closed and everything? Does this require a certain awareness of surroundings, like in meditation, or is it entirely what's created in your head?
This idea seems a lot like Lucid Living, where one lives as if he/she is in a lucid dream, with complete control and awareness. But this is like a meeting point of Lucid Dreaming and Lucid Living, is it not?

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Originally Posted by VagalTone

i have the impression that natural lucid dreamers like to visualize and daydream a lot, so it makes sense to develop these skills



yes, it would be a superhuman skill :shock:, i guess some people can develop it ( i am thinking about Bethoven ).

did you already achieve this ?

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I used to run a lot. I would frequently lucid daydream during this time. At soccer, I would sometimes fall out of reality while thinking. The trick is to actually perceive both realties simultaneously. Also, if you practice all day awareness, you will see how many times we just blank out everyday; letting our subconsciousness take control many times a day. It is a shame how many people sleep-walk through both their dreams and their life... off topic though.

-LifeIstheDream

I'm describing something I do that is very versatile, and can be used in many different ways. Most simply it is the ability to enter a lucid dream at any point in the day; eye's closed or open, asleep or awake, meditating or active. The dream you enter can either be consciously created or you can interact with subconscious imagination lucidly, you can imagine a completely different world, or overlay your minds eye on your environment (such as imagining the audience in their underwear). What I use the LDD for is the catalyst for Lucid living, the mind needs to be able to have total control of the particular dream at anytime before it can create it, and this is how I practice and achieve that.

-Jabre

also I've found that when perceiving both simultaneously it is useful to know the difference between the outside world, the subconscious, and your own thoughts, it very much keeps things in order.

Sometimes I have amazing visualization skills - I think it's when I'm maybe a little sleep deprived and ready to drop straight into REM. Would lucid daydreaming be easier in such a state (for a beginner I mean)? And then maybe as you develop your skills you can do it more often? I guess it's about opening up the channels between the subconscious and conscious minds that normally like to be closed. Hmmm this is pretty cool - I actually seem to be in just such a state right now.. I'm looking at my stopmotion puppets on the animation table next to me and I can very easily imagine them in motion, and it's almost as if it's happening. Yes, this can definitely be a powerful tool for an animator.. :chuckle:

I guess I'm a natural at LDD, I have pretty crazy visualization skills and I hadn't really found the limit yet. I often start daydreaming about something random and actually end up not being conscious of the real word for a short while. I do a lot of drawing and I'm a really visual person, so I'm best at visualizing the image, but I can without any problems visualize touch, eating, but in like most lucids, taste and smell gets neglected most of the time. I started ADA recently, and realized how many times I snap out of reality. I can't put a number on how many times I do it, but I'd say that most of the time I can't get 30 minutes of ADA in a row. I actually never thought this was unusual or special.

Well, I can introduce auditory hallucinations at will now, am I getting closer? :)

-SIMDML Cool :D we need some more people like you to help with studying practical techniques for the newbies, I know it can often feel like magic, but that's what highly advanced science is. The people like us should be figuring out what we're doing right to help out the beginners :) I'm actually very good with taste and smell, though you're right they don't come up very often. But think about how awesome it is to eat as much cake as you want and not get fat !!! :P And smell can be one of the most useful ones; it's so well tied to memory that if you can remember a scent and replicate it with LDD it can help bring back the relative memory, great for recall!

-Postscript99

I'm not sure if you mean hallucinations as in subconsciously created, though if you do it's thin tightrope to be walking. I would first focus on telling the difference between your states of perception so that you will be able to properly function in society while hallucinating ;) a trick I use to practice knowing the difference is keeping three diaries, one is a dream journal (subconscious) which you make entries in after recalling a dream, usually kept on a table next to your bed, the second is a diary of your thoughts which you carry with you and record anything you should remember, and lastly a journal on your daily experiences which you can keep somewhere you will find it at the end of the day (a computer desk for example). This way you get to know the differences between each of the states -how your subconscious thinks(dream), how you think(thought), and how they differ from your external environment. Then you use the familiar process of comparing these dreamsigns so you are lucid of which state the information is coming from.

Hehe, I play orchestras with my thoughts to relax sometimes :P but I had to start somewhere, so you are definitely making some progress ;)

I've been practicing some visualization methods. One that I find useful is visualizing yourself flying while you're in a car/bus or w/e. What I imagine is that i'm hovering about 10 feet about the vehicle and traveling at the same speed. I try to feel the wind on my face and listen to the traffic sounds.

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Originally Posted by GenericLDer

I've been practicing some visualization methods. One that I find useful is visualizing yourself flying while you're in a car/bus or w/e. What I imagine is that i'm hovering about 10 feet about the vehicle and traveling at the same speed. I try to feel the wind on my face and listen to the traffic sounds.

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Very cool! just make sure not to get distracted if you're the one driving, I know you're a bit young for that but sometimes it's best to do this with minimal external distractions, which brings me to my next point...

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Sometimes I have amazing visualization skills - I think it's when I'm maybe a little sleep deprived and ready to drop straight into REM. Would lucid daydreaming be easier in such a state (for a beginner I mean)? And then maybe as you develop your skills you can do it more often? I guess it's about opening up the channels between the subconscious and conscious minds that normally like to be closed. Hmmm this is pretty cool - I actually seem to be in just such a state right now.. I'm looking at my stopmotion puppets on the animation table next to me and I can very easily imagine them in motion, and it's almost as if it's happening. Yes, this can definitely be a powerful tool for an animator.. :chuckle:

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Thanks for pointing that out! I have been keeping note of the causes for induction of the LDD and you bring up some valid points, especially linking the conscious and subconscious mind. When you can tell you subconscious what to imagine and it can create a likeness from your instructions, that is definitely a useful way of looking at the LDD. Earlier I mentioned that a common trigger is a personal interest (neat that you were visualizing your puppetry :D), what you've made me realize is that the subconscious is being trained to imagine these things by your active interest in the subject, then when it is linked directly to your waking mind through sleep deprivation or meditation, voila! all it needs is a little push in the right direction and we are LDDing.

I think we've made a breakthrough in the science side, now we just have to develop some techniques around it :D

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-SIMDML Cool we need some more people like you to help with studying practical techniques for the newbies

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Thank you! I will be happy to help you in this awesome project :)

The way it works for me is that I just recently asked myself "why the heck shouldn't I be able to visualize touch?" and challenged myself to do so and I was successful after a bit of practice. Then I realized that by combining it with sight it was really realistic, like a fully stabilized LD. So the way I got there is just by practising visualization... I am still very new to the concept and currently experimenting.

I hope that answers your questions, and I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Simon

-SIMDML

awesome! Goal setting is definitely useful for focusing the trigger interest (sometimes it is a simple as being interested in the LDD, and other times we need to be interested something else to get motivation). One question I have for you is what exactly do you do for practice? That's one thing I'm taking note of so that we can develop them into induction techniques for the tutorial.

The way practice is just by visualizing a random scene, visualize the touch then interact/mess around with it. I think I found a nice way to practice it (however it only covers sight): just close your eyes and visualize what you would actually see if they were open. Since you have your eyes closed and only sight is taken care of, I think it would a pretty good beginner exercise. Let me know what you think about it. I'm going to try to figure out how to rapidly snap out of reality and find a way to extend it's duration. I have some more ideas for the tutorial but I don't have enough time to write ATM. I should be able to write a shot message tomorrow.
Simon

-SIMDML; good thinking, an exit strategy will be very useful, I usually know which reality is which by instinct and then stop thinking about my fabricated one, and focus on the external, though to do this you have to be aware of both so you don't have a "false awakening". Something more flexible is in order so we can get deeper into the daydream say while in a trance. Awaiting your future posts!

this gives me an idea, if we induce sleep paralysis, we can LDD while our body is resting and do it all day!


I think we have enough to start building a basic tutorial, I'll will organize the notes and make the result into a dream journal entry here on dv, then put the link in my signature.

of course any stories reports and techniques are still welcome for futher progress!

I am also all day in my head...:D but i don't know if that could be like real lucid dream while wake. I, like, really lose myself through the day , and most of the time i am visualizing something and thinking in pictures but i don't have that same filing as being lucid for real. I am very interested in this, because i am really trying to improve my mental skills. I like using mnemonic techniques and I really improved my memory with this LDD like thing.

NOTICE

I have posted a sister thread in lucid experiences so from now on enter all the LDD experiences you want to share over there (here's the link)

from now on this thread should be about discussion of techniques unless it's absolutely necessary to refer to an experience. thanks :)

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ninoslavi - It takes a lot of experience to achieve full immersion with LDD, I am going to post the link to a mnemonic approach to learn it that I am designing with the help of this thread (you'll be able to find it in my signature and I will make a notice about it here)

When you LDD, is it exactly like LDing, where your subconscious generates a world you can explore?

And do your eyes have to be closed?

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Originally Posted by PostScript99

When you LDD, is it exactly like LDing, where your subconscious generates a world you can explore?

And do your eyes have to be closed?

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Yes, although I often create the worlds myself it is possible to partially let go (especially once you have trained your subconscious to dream on command), and let the world be created around you.

Like I said earlier, the LDD is trained by interests in things until your subconscious knows enough to interact with them virtually (a normal daydream) although once you have done this you will be able to access that daydream and interact with it using just like normal dream control. The more you develop your subconscious in this way it will learn how to access the subtle things you learn about with or without consciously realizing it.

You can even kick start a scene you want by imagining some of the detail and then explore. With the proper practice, when you expect something to appear, it will, just like you might make something appear in a normal LD.



As for the eyes, you can do both, although it is a very different experience, it takes a lot of focus to do it with eyes open, though I do do it all the time, though you are seeing with both your light eyes and minds eye simultaneously and they can sometimes dissipate each others focus if you aren't really good at multitasking. With eye's closed it can be more easy to learn because there is less room for distractions, on the other hand, while doing the step of training your subconscious it can sometimes be helpful to open your eyes and take references of the things you are absorbing.

My way of LDDing seems pretty different. First, if I start with eyes closed or open it doesn't change anything since I lose awaraness of the real world wile doing it. The way it works for me is that I put all my attention on the daydream until the real world doesn't have a bit of by attention. Then I start playing around with visualization, some things are created by my subconscious but 90% is created by me. At the beginning it's foggy and unclear, but then I can focus on the "dream" and make it clearer. Everything is done with visualization, sometimes I can act in the dream as if it was a LD, but only when im really focused. Sory, that's all the time I have to write for the moment.

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Originally Posted by SIMDML

My way of LDDing seems pretty different. First, if I start with eyes closed or open it doesn't change anything since I lose awaraness of the real world wile doing it. The way it works for me is that I put all my attention on the daydream until the real world doesn't have a bit of by attention. Then I start playing around with visualization, some things are created by my subconscious but 90% is created by me. At the beginning it's foggy and unclear, but then I can focus on the "dream" and make it clearer. Everything is done with visualization, sometimes I can act in the dream as if it was a LD, but only when im really focused. Sory, that's all the time I have to write for the moment.

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I am able to do this as well, although i experiment with many form of basic concept too. this particular way of LDDing is one of the more advanced prospects and for someone who doesn't naturally learn how do it requires some training to be able to. I believe the required skills can be acquired in the same way for the different forms of the ability (training both the conscious and subconscious acquisition of the required qualities through observation and invention then combining them to create a dream). thus there will be many subtypes of the LDD that branch off and specialize from the original induction technique.

This is how I learned, even if I started without quite knowing it would happen, but I'm sure it can be used by others to achieve the same effect.

Hey! I just found an article about how to induce any states of conciousness pretty fast. A friend of a friend shared it on Facebook, I wouldn't have found it otherwise. I won't post the link because it's in French, but I might translate it. After some practice you can enter any state of conciousness just by thinking about it! This is perfect for LDD, because you can enter a state of profound meditation instantly, and being relaxed helps a lot. I also found the key points to snapping out of reality, but I don't exactly know how you want to approach LDDing in the tutorial. I'll also look on the forum to see if there's a similar article to the one I found before translating it.

Happy dreams,
Simon

This all sounds very interesting and I'd like to explore this further. I know as a child my ability to visualise was amazing. I often projected things from my mind into my reality. This was an amazing experience for me, although often I would project nightmarish things if I was frightened which wasn't so much fun, and I felt it kind of isolated me from the world because no one else could do this and they couldn't understand. I've since lost this ability, or at least it's nowhere near as strong, and I'd very much like to get it back and make it better.

Now when i thought a little bit better about this, I can say that it seems to me that after all I am natural at this. But I'm not using this the same way as lucid dream. I think of it as a deep thought. I fully visualize any idea, put myself in memory or visualize my next lucid dream. This really helps my remember way better. It's strange to me that not everyone think that way. I think working on improving memory and visualizing skills is the first step to LDD...

SIMDML -I'm interested! honestly as far as how I'm going to approach it, I might find something useful in anything, though in the end I'm looking for simplicity and efficiency of the technique, though don't let that stop you from posting something if you think it's relevant; I'm very good at using others ideas and morphing them to fit my needs.

MRH92 -Always great to hear someone is interested by my work ^_^, feel free to look through this thread for ideas that might help you get back in the game, if anything works be sure to tell me everything about the experience, it would be great to get some feedback on my theories.

ninoslavi - I know this ability has potential far beyond the conventional concepts of lucid dreaming, and I'd love to hear more about how you make use of it. as I've referred to in earlier posts I often use this as a more in depth way of thinking. Cool to see that someone is working along similar lines, perhaps you can tell me some more detailed stories in the other thread :D

I haven'r daydreamed in a long time, because of ADA, so I really guess I have to make a choice here...:(

EDIT: I remember there was a time when I was younger, when I was really mad at my parents, and I had this long daydream about how I ran away from home, and it all felt so real, like I was dreaming...Would that be close?

I think I have this to an extent. I am able to get lost in my daydreams to the point where I lose awareness of reality, but the daydreams are generally somewhat hazy though, not too vivid or detailed. I did a bit of searching, and I believe this may have links to a "disorder" known as Maladaptive Daydreaming. I daydream pretty often; it has been like this ever since I was a little kid. I find daydreaming to be very soothing and calming, especially after a long day or when I'm just bored.

Might be a stupid question though... But i was talking with friend about this thread and we got little bit confused, what's exactly difference between daydreaming and visualization?... :uhm:

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Originally Posted by Checker666

Might be a stupid question though... But i was talking with friend about this thread and we got little bit confused, what's exactly difference between daydreaming and visualization?... :uhm:

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well visualization is often used as a misnomer, that is it means something other than what it's being used to say. The key is it's root word "visual" (something that is seen) whereas the LDD is intended as an umbrella term to apply to all media capable of being conceived in the mind. other than that it's just catchy nomenclature ;)

I'm excited to hear you were talking about it with a friend :D I'm sure it's quite the conversation starter with the right people :)

Here's an update on what's happening currently :)

We've found some useful techniques for developing the LDD, my IRL friend GenericLDer and I have been swiftly advancing through the idea's we've gathered in this thread. Currently I am finding a way to describe the tech's in a simple and accessible way so they are widely available.

On a personal note, I have been building an animation studio for my own advanced practice and it is extremely helpful. The idea is as before that as you become adept with a certain skill, the subconscious is programmed to produce it's results faster and more accurately. So by learning the skill of recording my LDD's into an animated series, I will be focusing my minds ability to LDD. I'm in the middle of making a journal on everything I do for this project as a reference for others interested c:

I have no need for this, I got my first one, but thanks anyway. :)

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Originally Posted by PostScript99

I have no need for this, I got my first one, but thanks anyway. :)

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Great to hear! do you mind sharing the experience with us? Every success is more hope for me and other working to achieve this ^_^

I'm in algebra class, bored to death, and I put my head down on the desk and try to LDD. After a few minutes, I felt that I had lost touch of my physical body, but everything was still black. What was wrong? Oh, I wasn't daydreaming yet. I needed to kick it off with something, so I imagined the classroom, and I was there. All of a sudden, daydreaming kicks in, and I can feel a whirlwind of random thoughts assailing me. Each thought transformed my body into something else, but I managed to master the madness and flew through the ceiling to land outside, on the street. I could almost feel as if I were actually walking there, but...my visualization skills were not up to speed, so it was a little hazy. I wanted to be on a cliff on a desolate wasteland, with a small fort atop it, so I imagine that and it appears seamlessly at the end of the road. I walk into the fort and open the door into a small observatory, with a table, a chair, a telescope, and a quill pen. There was also a flagpole, so I summon an IOSDP flag and raise it. The teacher then gets on to me for "sleeping" in class, and only then do I realize how deep I was into it.

Beautiful results! Maybe not the best timing (I've definitely done similar things before ;), yet I love how classy your imagination is!

If you can do that in the middle of school, I'd love to hear what you're capable of during a nice secluded meditation session.

keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by Finnegan

Beautiful results! Maybe not the best timing (I've definitely done similar things before ;), yet I love how classy your imagination is!

If you can do that in the middle of school, I'd love to hear what you're capable of during a nice secluded meditation session.

keep up the good work!

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Thanks. :) It was a far different animal than LDing was, though. How do you improve visualization?

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Originally Posted by PostScript99

Thanks. :) It was a far different animal than LDing was, though. How do you improve visualization?

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a good way to practice is studying things with your eye's then closing them and "remembering" with your minds eye. As you get better you can start seeing things more three dimensionally -move around it in the LDD to look at different angles. Once you are good at this you have some room to start improvising, adding, altering, or substituting details, eventually creatively building worlds. It might seem like a lot of work at first but it gets really easy with practice, many kinds of artists do this naturally, including myself, and it's very helpful :)

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Originally Posted by Finnegan

a good way to practice is studying things with your eye's then closing them and "remembering" with your minds eye. As you get better you can start seeing things more three dimensionally -move around it in the LDD to look at different angles. Once you are good at this you have some room to start improvising, adding, altering, or substituting details, eventually creatively building worlds. It might seem like a lot of work at first but it gets really easy with practice, many kinds of artists do this naturally, including myself, and it's very helpful :)

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I'll try it. Oh, and my meditation is hopeless right now. I hope I'll be able to do that someday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PostScript99

I'll try it. Oh, and my meditation is hopeless right now. I hope I'll be able to do that someday.

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Alright, let me know how it goes, I'm looking forward to your progress :)

It's useful to have a wide referance base when building dreams, for example with visualization, the more things you have learned how to visualize, the easier it will be to incorporate them together to build something new. Even small details, such as how different objective qualites will act in different situations (I use this a lot to convince myself that a dream object is being moved by the required force I imagine -useful for flying and telekinesis), also subjective qualities like how how a mirrors perspective changes with mine. A lot of these things are acquired subconsciously, and can be called upon when in the proper trance that comes with LDDing.

Ok, it's been a while since I haven't posted here, I've been really busy. I dont know if im going to translate the article because I am still very busy... As promised, here's my guide into snapping out of reality:

The key to induce a LDD using this particular technique is controlling where you put your attention. If you want to, you can try this method while meditating, as seems to be easier, but this doesn't mean it's hard to do without meditating. You will visualize a scene of your choice, make it more realistic by focusing on small details, then try to visualize touch. This may seem hard at first but thrust me, it's not. You will rapidly develop this skill by practicing this technique. What will happen is that your attention will be driven into the daydream until it finally gets all your attention so the real world doesn't get any. It's important to point out that you should not be trying to perceive the transition, because if you do you will subconcioisly constantly check if you are still perceiving the real world, witch puts your attention into it. Just dont think about it, let it happen and it will be fine. At this point you will notice that everything is easier to visualize, since you are totally focused on the daydream. You can now continue to increase the realism by putting your attention into the details, then go on with what you planned to do. As everything is created by visualization, it's extremely easy to controll the daydream.

If anyone would give me some feedback it would be really appreciated. Also if you spot some mistypes or some parts of it are not clear just tell me, I'm not a native English speaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SIMDML

Ok, it's been a while since I haven't posted here, I've been really busy. I dont know if im going to translate the article because I am still very busy... As promised, here's my guide into snapping out of reality:

The key to induce a LDD using this particular technique is controlling where you put your attention. If you want to, you can try this method while meditating, as seems to be easier, but this doesn't mean it's hard to do without meditating. You will visualize a scene of your choice, make it more realistic by focusing on small details, then try to visualize touch. This may seem hard at first but thrust me, it's not. You will rapidly develop this skill by practicing this technique. What will happen is that your attention will be driven into the daydream until it finally gets all your attention so the real world doesn't get any. It's important to point out that you should not be trying to perceive the transition, because if you do you will subconcioisly constantly check if you are still perceiving the real world, witch puts your attention into it. Just dont think about it, let it happen and it will be fine. At this point you will notice that everything is easier to visualize, since you are totally focused on the daydream. You can now continue to increase the realism by putting your attention into the details, then go on with what you planned to do. As everything is created by visualization, it's extremely easy to controll the daydream.

If anyone would give me some feedback it would be really appreciated. Also if you spot some mistypes or some parts of it are not clear just tell me, I'm not a native English speaker.

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Thanks alot for the help! I love the point about not trying to percieve the change, makes a lot of sense. I would like to note that this is for a fully immersed LDD, while they can also be done as an overlay on your environment; such as when Da Vinci would stare at a block of marble planning each of his moves before he made the first.

much of your other ideas here are similar to where i plan to go with the tutorial, eventually it's to be very clear without any loose ends for people to get confused about.

This is great, we are surely edging toward a set of techniques that will help many people in achieving this :)

I didn't have the time to translate the article about the states of mind but I found one while searching for similar articles. Here it is. I also found this interesting thread about the visualization overlaying you were talking about. I think I'll be focusing a bit more on that.

I hope it helps,
Simon

Update! I discovered that when I LDD the exact same thing happens for VILD or V-WILD: I visualize until a point where I am so focused on the "dream" that my subconcioisly kicks in and starts adding elements. From this point I don't need to visualize anymore :)

I hope this tread will not die since (in my opinion) the concept is very interesting and has great potential.

Happy dreams,
Simon

this technique was originally coined by Tim post, the creator of lucidipedia.com, he have a very interesting explanation.

Thanks for sharing! I'll go check that out!

Lucid living sounds like something I would put a lot of time into mastering.

Sim: how well of a job does Google Translate do on that article?

Partially translated with google, edited and corrected by me :). Here it is. Oh and by the way, if any of you would like the link to the original french version, here it is.

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Originally written by Alexandre Nadeau

The technique has been created by Richard Bandler (co-creator of NLP) and afterwards modified by the author then translated by me.

Initially, Richard Bandler had created this technique to reproduce consciousness chemically induced states (drug, alcohol, anesthesia, coffee, etc..).

It was a great evidence that these substances were not a trigger for the body to produce the desired reaction as many people using this technique could get the same effect without using chemicals (that's just awesome and I [the author] did it several times with success).

For the exercise, you can select a state you want to live again and it could be any of: joy, peace, ecstasy, creativity, when you were in love, freedom, wonder, deep meditation, etc..

Have you chosen a state of consciousness?

Wonderful!

Let's go with exercise.

The trick is to ask a few questions and answer aloud. The questions in steps and more detailed explanations follow:

1 - When you walk into this state of consciousness, what changes first in your state of consciousness? (Answer aloud in sensory language. Answer the questions in simple terms)

2 - When you go more fully into this state of consciousness, what changes in your experience?

3 - How do you feel in your body when you're fully in this state of consciousness?

4 - What else?

Several important tips for best results.

1 - It is super important to answer aloud. Win Wenger discovered that the more we describe something aloud the more we become aware ... and I [the author] added , the more we describe a state of consciousness aloud, the more it is growing in us!

2 - Respond to sensory language.

When changing states of consciousness, there is always changes in your physical sensations (lighter, heavier, warmer, colder, more open, more tense, etc.).

There are also visual changes (I [the author] see brighter, more blurry, colors are more vivid, etc..) And auditory (I [the author] can not hear the ambient sounds I hear sounds in three dimensions, I feel the sounds, etc.)

It is very important to describe the changes that you live in response to questions in terms of what changes to make to the visual, auditory or felt in the moment when you ask questions (aloud or issues as ask someone to ask you).

3 - Emphasize changes in sensations. The sensations have tremendous influence on the states of consciousness and you have a lot of influence on your feelings by asking questions such as those presented earlier.

Take more time to describe the sensations, feelings and felt called "energy" in and around your body when you do this exercise.

4 - Repeat the cycle of questions several times if necessary.

It is possible that your state of consciousness is gradually changing. Continue to rest questions cyclically until you are in the desired state of consciousness.

At some point, the desired state is activated completely.

For some, it takes 30 seconds, and for others, it will take 15 minutes and that's okay.

If you do this exercise often with the same state of consciousness, you may be able to return in a few seconds because the path will be made. Just thinking about it will get you there!

---------------------------------------[author's experience with this technique]---------------------------------------

In the time that I was doing hypnosis, I used this technique because I did not have the patience to slowly say to a client: "Release your feet ... break your ankles ..." and move throughout the body as it in dribs and drabs.

Then I looked at the customer and our conversation like this:

- When you go into a trance, what changes in your first experience?

- I do not know, my breathing slows ... (Breathing slowed unwittingly?)

- What else?

- My body becomes soft and still... (He is totally still, he isn't even blinking his eyes)

- So what?

- My eyes closes ... (His eyelids fall partially)

- Ok, close them...

Laughter!

That's it! Rapid induction!

I gave this example to give you an idea of ​​the practical use of this technique. I could just as well apply to induce, in a state of sleep insomnia (I have often done successfully in the afternoon) or induce a state of creativity in a person who was suffering from a blank page (I have often successfully).

[...]

Thank you to share as many!

Have a wonderful day!

Alexandre

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Hm, this sounds interesting, though I have to admit I am a skeptic.

I suppose it would be possible to eventually train yourself to hallucinate, which would be cool, but I can't imagine the amount of devotion I would take. Also, at that point, you would be inceptioning yourself. After extensive training and success, I believe that you would slowly begin to lose track of reality, and what is and isn't a hallucination, which would be a terrible fate.

Lucid dreaming is wonderful, and it allows me to not waste 1/3rd of my life; but I'll keep it as that - 1/3rd of my life and no more. Waking life is beautiful and miraculous and unfathomably exciting - I will enjoy it without need of daydreaming.

~Raven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RavenOfShadow

Hm, this sounds interesting, though I have to admit I am a skeptic.

I suppose it would be possible to eventually train yourself to hallucinate, which would be cool, but I can't imagine the amount of devotion I would take. Also, at that point, you would be inceptioning yourself. After extensive training and success, I believe that you would slowly begin to lose track of reality, and what is and isn't a hallucination, which would be a terrible fate.

Lucid dreaming is wonderful, and it allows me to not waste 1/3rd of my life; but I'll keep it as that - 1/3rd of my life and no more. Waking life is beautiful and miraculous and unfathomably exciting - I will enjoy it without need of daydreaming.

~Raven

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That's what I thought, until I tried it. :P

I've been away for school reasons, but I've still been working on this. Here is a treat to prove it :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga-nidra

From what I've read so far this seems to be what I've been talking about. I will get some books on the subject to study it further.

...and I'll catch up on the posts I missed soon!

I'm posting to let everybody who helped out here know that I've developed a technique for achieving the LDD. click here for the new thread, or click my signature to see the technique's tutorial.

I have a few more ideas for practice, but I think this is a good start. Thanks again for all your help, and enjoy!

Hi Finnegan!
Very fascinating!
I'm just now adding these sentences, in order not to mercilessly jump you with questions, without making it clear, that I would love to have this ability! In science-fiction terms this would be virtual-reality-overlay and sophisticatedly cabled into your very mental completeness, too.
A dream - but for doing it from within my mind - I believe myself too lazy, but I also somewhat fear the potential consequences.
I have real life passions, though, and something like this would be mind-blowing to have at hand to use.

Did you hear of another dream-come-true scenario, quite related - tulpas?
That would be analogous to "nurturing an artificial intelligence" to share your mind with, like one author had it - forgot now..

I am by nature sceptical as well - of your LDDing and tulpas both, if one really can pull it off.
But I believe, it is both possible, basically, and I choose to believe you/them.

Tulpas are not (primarily) about hallucinations, but they are included - it is about creating coherent, persisting, sentient and sapient "thoughtforms", quasi-separate entities to share your waking life mind with. A lot like the "dream-guide" concept in LDs - in the non-metaphysical meaning.
Here is a thread on it: http://www.dreamviews.com/tulpa-land...ion-guide.html
Will crossLink, maybe.. :wink:

You can hallucinate touch - but you can't hallucinate pressure, is that so? I came across it in the context of tulpa-hallucinations.

I guess, the mechanism of hallucination is the same as in psychosis - which doesn't necessarily mean the former leads to the latter, but it worries me. How long have you been doing it? How much of your day do you practice LDD?

Do you have problems with hallucinations, which you hold for real in these endeavours - something your unconscious* throws up? Have you reacted in a particular way, because of believing that you see something with your real eyes instead of your mind's ones?
Are you at any time able to put an end to any perceptions except reality after the usual filtering?
Something like breaking hypnosis, maybe?

I have a lot more questions - but like with the tulpa concept and Linkzelda - my goal is lucid dreaming for now - and I would love to gain some respective insight about it from somebody like you, Finnegan, as well.

Seen from your perspective - could you please give us one or two pointers towards what you consider important in order to reach a higher rate and quality of LDs?

:fly:




*By the way - I use 'the unconscious' instead of subconsciousness, because it is the neutral term, not connected to Freudian ideology.

Let me just ask:

How are we supposed to train this?

Does it feel like real life as well?

StephL :

Yes I have heard of tulpas, though I like to think they are not limited to creating living objects. Since tulpa apparently translates to `thought-form` I tend to think of them as a sort of dream come true. Since I was young I`ve been curious whether I could make something so real and clear in my mind that it becomes a part of reality, which is what I think the idea of the tulpa aims at. That same curiosity led me to experiment with dreaming/daydreaming at a young age, and more recently I've found the tulpa an interesting concept as the practitioners of the art apparently use a form of meditation that is very similar to the idea I've outlined here.


Here is a little anecdote that might convince you of the existence of the LDD for starters;
Watch this video, notice how the user moves a part of their body to train the device, yet it is later shown that simply imagining the moving of that part is sufficient to trigger the system. Click here for the video about brain computer interface technology.


It's possible to hallucinate pressure, I'm not sure why someone said it can't be done, although I have never had much use for it when fantasizing. Personally I find it's a relatively easy thing to hallucinate because I've experienced many times already, so I know what it's like to feel pressure. I can just link up my understanding of how pressure works with my bodies sensations to say a daydream of me pressing hand firmly on a wall, and I can clearly feel a rather realistic sensation as though I am doing exactly that.

Oh this reminds me of the classic hollywood reality check ("pinch me I'm dreaming") maybe that is where it comes from. But from previous experience with nightmares I can tell you that there is still pain in dreams, but like everything else in them it can be controlled through willpower.

The difference between this and psychosis is that it is a lot more mild than the latter, because the user consciously activates the hallucination and is in lucid control of it, instead of being at the whim of their subconscious. I usually use the ability while doing various types of art or really bored, which comes out to a few times a week or more, although that has been pretty much constant for the past 20 years, so I've logged some good hours.

I have always been great at DILDs, because I tend to instinctively be able to distinguish from dream and reality, so there has never been any issue with mistaking one for the other. This ability of mine also lends itself to daydreaming, I seem to be great at noticing differences and keeping track of which is which.

Dreams are sustained by the dreamers attention to them, you may have noticed that one of the best stabilization techniques is to pay close attention to the fine details of the dream. It is no different here, where the user can dissolve the daydream by instead simply focusing on the outer world.

Heh, I'm not nearly as proficient at lucid dreaming as I am at lucid day-dreaming. I find that once I'm unconscious It's not as easy to just up and think "I'm going to start controlling my perception", whereas once I'm awake I can do exactly that. This is why LDers use all sorts of tricks to wake the mind up while in a dream, I've side-stepped that whole bit for my day-dreaming practice. Although when I do have a lucid dream it's usually because I've fallen asleep while lucid daydreaming (causing a WILD) or my ability to naturally distinguish between inner and outer realities has crossed over into sleep (causing a DILD). I'm a lot better at controlling dreams than causing them, and can definitely answer any question you have on that regard, just PM me :)


Iriba:

To put it simply, it is accomplished by training one's imagination to the point of total control, and the ability can reach the same clarity as dreams, which have been known to become more vivid than the outer reality.

I've always done this but didn't know that it wasn't common. Now that I know more about it and its usefulness I'm gonna practice it.

I LDD for a lot of my spare time every day, and I usually daydream about how the world will be in the future, and some interesting what-if scenarios. For example, what would happen if India was a dictatorship and what would happen if American Football was more popular then European football. I also got good at doing this without closing my eyes.