Practicing self-awareness and SSILD for 10 weeks

As you know, self-awareness is one of the most important part of frequent lucid dreaming. Of course it's an ability that can be learn after lots of practice. There are many ways to improve it. Here, we would practice self-awareness in this way:

1- Every 30 minutes, stop and deeply ask your self:
- where am i?
- am i dreaming?
- how do i know that i am awake or dreaming? as in my dreams, i always think i am awake and every thing make sense to me, so maybe this is another dream too?
- how can i come out of this confusing situation?

2- when you feel crazy of doubt and you really don't know where the hell you are, then do an RC.
In fact, RC is an angle to help you come out of the confusion of being awake or dreaming.

Do not RC if you are not in serious doubt yet... you should not do RC like a zombie.. so, every time before you RC, you should expect to be surprised of being inside a dream!

3- between these 30 minutes, try to maintain a little of your awareness too.

The depth of your doubt in waking state is nearly equal to your doubts in your sleep. so if you are even 1% sure that you are awake, then you are not done yet. I mean, you MUST be 100% confused of being awake or dreaming while you RC.

As you may not like dream journaling, so you can do SSILD before bed to boost awareness in your dreams and also to be able to remember your dreams with high vividness and clarity..

As it takes time to increase our self-awareness, then we may not want to post our results here everyday. we should report our progress only every week! If we have questions, we can ask them here too!

good luck mates!

(Special thanks to those who has helped to create this thread:))

What do you by confused about being awake? The issue for me is that I instantly can tell that I am awake before RC. No number of thinking I might not be....actually makes me believe.

Well....if you are sure you are awake before doing RC, then in your dreams, you are sure you are awake too so maybe you never doubt about its nature and won't be interested to do RC...that happens in many non lucid dreams....we are TOO sure that we are awake.....if you increase your dream recall, you will see how convincing is the dream...it feels sooooo real....
so what's the difference between dream and reality? nearly nothing....only RC can show you that you are awake or not....
I know when you are reading this post you feel you are awake now....but maybe not....how many times in your dreams you where sitting behind a computer and thought you are awake???maybe it is a dream too....

i know it's very hard to reach that mental state where you feel you might not be dreaming...because you are sure you are awake even if you are dreaming...
Ahahahahaha...i know it is crazy...oh my GOD....!!! it is hard for me too but i am trying.....

week one=

during the first week, i reality checked 2 times in my dreams....but i wasn't enough aware to get lucid....

the self-awareness practices are getting easier and i am going to believe that everything around me is maybe a dream scene...

Hey yaya, have you ever tried using your breath as an anchor to stay in the present moment? I was reading some tips online on how to stay mindful and not lost in thoughts/worries/actions and what not and stumbled upon that idea, among others.
And congrats on doing the RCs while dreaming, sounds like good progress.

Thank you dear mimihigurashi !
oh my god!!!! it is toooo hard to maintain my awareness on breathing while doing daily tasks....but i think this is what i should be in future....even if not to be focused on breathing but at least not to be lost in daily activities or thoughts....for my next step, i should be able to extend the duration of suspecting about being awake or sleep....

Np, yeah I know it's hard, I'm struggling with it too, but the more you insist upon it, the better you get, and the better you get the more easy it becomes, fortunately.

The hard part is remembering! I do reality checks twice, to make sure I do it in my dreams. I've had times were I've reality checked and just gone on with my dream, waking up feeling dumb. But now I've learned to be more skeptical and go back and RC again just to be sure, and it worked for me. This happened to me last night where I did a RC like 10 times before I fully accepted it was a dream. Good luck and you will get the hang of it soon, I find myself having one lucid a week now and I've been at it for about 2 and a half months, maybe. (although I have been off and on trying for a few years now)

How is it going, yaya? Are you still trying to practice SSILD? What do your nightly practices consist of? I'm excited to hear an update!

Oh thank you all for your useful tips and attention, mimihigurashi, ageofthunder and ThreeCat!

Threecat...
I still do SSILD as this is my only tool for remembering my dreams and increasing the vividness of my dreams as i don't DJ. I can remember 80 percent of my dreams with full clarity with SSILD...

and for my self-awareness practices..... I can suspect easier that everything around me might be a dream (like dream yoga)...even sometimes i suspect that i am a girl....maybe i am another being in real life....Lol.....and i do RC 4 times in an hour....it is ok for me and i feel comfortable doing such a high number of RC...also i try to maintain the awareness of being awake or dreaming as mimihigurashi suggested....sometimes i lost in daily activities....maybe because i am still a beginner...

but...i don't do any night practices...:cheeky:
so...what should i do as my night time practice? should i also do it in WBTS?

Ohhhh...I need help from DILDers!
how you don't get disappointed when every time you RC, you are awake?
I know i am a newbie and it takes time to be able to RC in dreams too, but...i am near to cry...every time i RC, i am awake...so how you over come this sad feeling?

yaya; take care that you don't get LD burnout, RCing every 30 minutes is a lot of mental strain! In her DILD guide, Puffin came up with SAT (Sporadic Awareness Technique) which is like a more focussed, less taxing ADA which involves becoming hyper aware and RCing for 2 minutes at a time. Puffin got regular DILDs doing only 5 of these sessions a day, that's only 10 minutes daily!

There is such a thing as trying too hard, you know :P

As for waking up after RCing, it passes with time.

In addition to what Ctharlhie said, here's here's a thought that could help, Yaya:

You might want to think about what the letters "RC" stand for.

It's called a "Reality Check," and not a "Dream Check," and for good reason. When you do a reality check/critical state test, you should be assuming that you are in waking-life reality, and are wondering (or have become suspicious) if the place you are in is really a dream. If, say, your finger does not go straight through your palm, then the result of your RC is positive, and not negative, because you have confirmed that you are indeed in reality. So, if you use the RC correctly, it won't bother you at all that it confirmed reality, because that is what it is supposed to do. And yes, when you do one in a dream (when not yet lucid) you will be doing so from the same position of assuming that everything around you is waking-life reality, only the RC will come up negative and you will know that you are dreaming.

The RC is really a very simple device that I think has been complicated by all the stuff well-intentioned people have added to it over the years. One of those things is doing it while assuming that you are dreaming, which has led to all sorts of unhelpful steps -- like imagining that you are in a dream (a fine thing to do, BTW, but not during a RC). LaBerge himself used to emphatically say that the question should always be "Is this a dream?" and never "Is this reality?" because, dreaming or awake, you already "know" you are in reality -- so the question is a bit silly and perhaps even depressing. [aside: this may run counter to the question LaBerge said to use in EWOLD, much earlier in his career, which was "Am I dreaming or awake?" Though the rest of his text in EWOLD pretty much reflects what I said above, this ambiguously worded question may have helped us all down this road of misdirected RC's.]

tl;dr: Always assume that you are in reality when doing a RC. It's okay (indeed an excellent idea) to wonder if you are dreaming, but never assume from the get-go of your RC that you are dreaming. This way you will not be disappointed by a positive RC (not dreaming), yet still be thrilled by a negative result.

Thanks for clearing that up, Sageous, I actually heard many times that you're supposed to pretend you're already dreaming while performing an RC, guess not, what you're saying makes sense.

oh....Thank you all ! there is a big relief in my heart now! Ha ha...

I always thought we should pretend we are dreaming as part of the self-awareness exercise as people do in dream yoga (as you know, in dream yoga, people should think everything around them is a dream) and then RC is to clarify we are dreaming or not. this approach made to cry today because i can't be a Buddhist monk to do such a heavy mental process.

so as you said, i can think i am awake all the time....even i can swear i am awake, but i can still do RC to show my real state....that's really really easier to do.

now about the timing....how many times i should RC in order to be a professional DILDer? as you have mentioned puffin did RC only 5 times a day....is it really enough? because now i do 20 RC in a day but i still think it's not enough....it's my second week of practice but not much success in DILD in my dreams....maybe that's too soon to expect any change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yaya

I always thought we should pretend we are dreaming as part of the self-awareness exercise as people do in dream yoga (as you know, in dream yoga, people should think everything around them is a dream) and then RC is to clarify we are dreaming or not. this approach made to cry today because i can't be a Buddhist monk to do such a heavy mental process.

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Yes, I would separate dream yoga practice from RC's, as they are two very different activities (and I believe ought to remain as such) that, as you discovered, might tend to bump into each other in unproductive ways.

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now about the timing....how many times i should RC in order to be a professional DILDer? as you have mentioned puffin did RC only 5 times a day....is it really enough? because now i do 20 RC in a day but i still think it's not enough....it's my second week of practice but not much success in DILD in my dreams....maybe that's too soon to expect any change.

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I think that timing amounts to whatever you're comfortable with. One or two RC's an hour is probably plenty, and if you can have good results with 5 per day (or less), then there would be no need to do more. With RC's, quality is far more important than quantity, so there is no need to knock yourself out doing as many as possible, especially if doing so becomes a nuisance rather than a lucid aid.

thank you very much master Sageous!:)
i see that RC is far more easier than what i thought! and if by quality you mean, to extend every RC to 2 minutes and ask deep questions (as you explained in your first section of WILD tutorial and also was said in puffin method) then i think i get the idea and will change my direction of practice to that manner!

^^ Wait, no; RC's are even simpler than that!

That exercise in my class is called a Reverse RC, and for good reason. The RRC is meant to help you establish and understand your position in your local reality, and it literally confirms your interaction with it (reality,) be it dreaming or waking-life. The RRC has nothing to do with double-checking that you are not dreaming -- indeed, it does almost the opposite, and is very much like dream yoga (or vipassana meditation).

RC's are simple state tests, and even the most sincere ones can be done in a couple of seconds. RC's can certainly be done before or after a RRC, so you do them both at the same time, but try not to combine them because, once again, they are two very different things.

:sageous:

thank you master! I have practiced something like this according to what i found out from your advices:

every 1 hour (i will do it every 2 hours, later) i stopped...and then i looked around....i checked out where i have been during the last 5 minutes....then i looked at the objects in the room to see if they are normal or not (for example, if they are blurry and if they change if i look at them for the second time)....then i checked the gravity of objects and my hand....then i smelled the air to see if it smells strange or not....then i closed my eye lids to see if i can see or not...
during all of those actions, i was skeptical if i am dreaming or not.... then finally i RC to see if i am awake or not (by nose plugging)

all of them took 1-2 minutes.... so...please tell me if i am doing anything wrong....actually i tried to combine self-awareness with RC.

i always thought DILD is simple but when i started it, i see it is very very TENUOUS and it's not as simple as we just read them in tutorials.

is it enough for becoming a regular LDer?

^^ If it's not enough to become a regular LD'er, it'll certainly start you in the right direction! The exercise you described, though maybe a bit busy, seems like it will help get your head in the right place -- which in the end ought to be the real goal in any daytime work, I believe.

And yes, the best things are never easy, including consistent LD'ing (however you get there). I think tutorials tend to make things sound a bit easier then they are, perhaps to encourage students to at least try the authors' methods. I hope you'll forgive us for that; we really should do more to differentiate simple, which WILD and DILD generally are, from easy, which WILD and DILD generally are not.

Wow....i think my path to LD is much more illuminated with your help and couldn't learn it correctly if you masters didn't correct we newbies....
thanks again master Sageous!:thanks:

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so it is another Friday and time to report my second week of practice:
- although the way of practice DILD has been changed so much during last two days but generally, i think self-awareness and RC is becoming much easier for me and part of my daily activity, even when i am busy i still remember to do it.
- during my dreams, i can pay more attention to event in dream but not yes lucidity. last night, i RC in dream but it failed and showed i was awake...that might happen for every RC to fail to work correctly sometimes....

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we really should do more to differentiate simple, which WILD and DILD generally are, from easy, which WILD and DILD generally are not.

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Emphatic yes.

summery of Week 3 of practicing self-awareness+RC=

well, i can do the exercise easily every hour and it only take me 1 minute. it is becoming a habit for me.

this week, i reality checked 4 time in my dreams, but all of them showed that i am awake although i was dreaming (weird!!!!). so they failed...but i don't care having LD now and doing LD practices is more important for me.

the vividness of my dreams is increasing specially the details of objects....i pay more attention to the objects in my dreams (I don't know why)...

That sounds like wonderful progress, yaya. I'm sure if you keep up your hard work a breakthrough will happen very soon. Stay strong! :)

summery of week 4=
although i practice a bit WILD but i don't think it interrupt the result of DILD a lot. so here is the result of DILD practice of this week=
i still do RRC and RC every hour. but its length has decreased. so maybe i should extend it more.
my dreams are mostly about dreaming and preparing for having LD at night.
I had one LD and two FA this week!:fame:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sageous

It's called a "Reality Check," and not a "Dream Check," and for good reason. When you do a reality check/critical state test, you should be assuming that you are in waking-life reality, and are wondering (or have become suspicious) if the place you are in is really a dream. If, say, your finger does not go straight through your palm, then the result of your RC is positive, and not negative, because you have confirmed that you are indeed in reality. So, if you use the RC correctly, it won't bother you at all that it confirmed reality, because that is what it is supposed to do. And yes, when you do one in a dream (when not yet lucid) you will be doing so from the same position of assuming that everything around you is waking-life reality, only the RC will come up negative and you will know that you are dreaming.

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This seems to make sense to me, but let's see if I have it right...

One assumes one is awake, but something perhaps seems out of the ordinary. So the assumption is awake with an inkling of doubt or suspicion, so a RC is performed to confirm one is awake while at the same time being aware of the possibility, however slight, of being in a dream. Thumb doesn't pass through palm, can't breathe through pinched nose, etc. = Positive RC = Awake. Thumb passes through hand, can breathe while pinching nose = Negative/Failed RC = Dreaming.

So... Since in all my dreams the thought never, ever crosses my mind I'm not awake, this practice starts to implant that space for doubt and practice to test state (RC) into my subconscious during waking life, which in turn might eventually manifest while I'm dreaming and result in a RC.

Is my understanding correct?

^^ Yes, it seems to me that your understanding is correct.

summery of week 5=
i do RC and self-awareness practice 2 times in every hour. i only do it when i am not very busy. so that's not good. because in dreams we are not always at peace. maybe i should do RC specially when i am busy too. so when ever i talk so someone, i will do the practice too plus those stable 2 times.
i didn't have any LD this week and i only had 1 FA. also one night, i did RC but it failed to show me that i am dreaming.

how do i feel now? i feel i should practice more seriously. something is wrong....

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Originally Posted by yaya

...maybe i should do RC specially when i am busy too. so when ever i talk so someone, i will do the practice too plus those stable 2 times. ....

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That was a good decision. Did you just start doing this? Maybe it needs time to "kick in" in your dreaming mind.

Also, I always wait at least two or three dry weeks before being concerned that something is wrong...might just be a slowdown.

thank you so much!:)
yes, i have started it from this morning and as you said it will take time to get used to it! i feel a little stressed when my environment gets busy (as in my dreams) so only practice can make perfect...that will be slow but running flow!

summery of week 6=
well, i love the DILD practices and i do them 2 times in one hour + when i am very busy (specially when i play video games). also i do RRC and RC whenever i see a person or when i see myself in mirror (as it is my dream sign).
I could do RC in my dreams in this week for 5 times and all of them failed to show me i am dreaming. LOL.... also i had 2 FA.
i think it is much much better than previous week. my plan for this week is to extend my RRC and RC duration a little bit more in order to be able to recognize the difference of nature of reality and dreams!

This is to Sageous, sorry if it's a little late but cany tips on the RRC your talking about? im not sure im actually doing it right lol... and im having some trouble actually getting lucid and its been frustrating the past few months.
Any help and tips?

BTW is nice to hear of your progress yaya, 4 weeks have done alot for you huh lol. Nice!:D

^^ Well, this thread might not be the place for it, but here is an excerpt from the first session of my DVA WILD class, where I introduce the RRC:

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How do you develop self-awareness? There are many ways, and we’ll likely talk about others during upcoming conversations, but the exercise I’ll offer today is simple introduction to the practice, sort of a Reality Check in reverse:

Here’s what to do: At random intervals during the day – at least once an hour but no more than three times in that hour – stop what you’re doing and wonder. Just hold still for a second and remember where you were five minutes ago, imagine where you’ll be in five minutes, and know that everything you’re doing right now has an effect on everything and everyone around you, and everything and everyone around you has an effect on you – even if you don’t realize it.

The important part here is to think deeply about your place in all the stuff that’s whirling around you at any given time, and to really think about what all that whirling is doing to you, and what you might be doing to the whirling. During waking life, you might find yourself very often assuming that there’s not much whirling about at all or that there’s not much of an exchange of effect going on. There always is, whether you can feel it or not. Think about the fact that there is an exchange of atoms between your feet and the floor you’re treading: in a sense you’re changing reality itself, if ever so slightly, just by standing there! It is therefore extremely important to take a moment and remember that you exist, and your existence matters – even if you don’t think it does.

You don’t have to recite all those questions every time; that would be annoying, and the process of reciting all that might diminish the effect. Basically you should put it all into a single quick thought that means something to you, and allows wonder to linger after you’ve resumed moving through your waking day. It will be difficult at first, but with practice you won’t be using words at all when you pause, as the questions will have become second nature. Be very careful that the questions never lose their wonder, though. If they become rote -- just a bunch of words you say whenever your iPhone app goes off -- then you will have lost the point of doing the exercise because you will not be acknowledging your self.

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That's pretty much it, though as the questions came in, mostly in the WILD Q&A thread from the class, there were a couple of modest adjustments to the description (like, five minutes might be to short a time to look back and forward), so if you're really interested you could wander through that thread as well and check out the many conversations about RRC's.

Basically, though, the RRC is nothing more -- or less -- than taking a moment to remember where you just were, where you will be shortly, and where you are right now, and wonder about the answers to each, especially in terms of your interaction with your local reality.

That's what I got; I don't want to interrupt Yaya's thread too much, but if you have any more questions, feel free to post them on the WILD Q & A thread from the class, and I'll try to help.

I try to be aware in every location and time,but it's not in everyone s power!good topic yaya you began

you're welcome bro! yes that's hard to be aware in every situation and unfortunately our dreams are that busy too. most of my DILDs have happened when i was not busy and was in peace in dreams so i could think about my environment. but these moments are really rare in our dreams. i hate this part but no way. we have to deal with it;-)
it will get better with practice. the most busy and distracting time for me is while playing disciples III. i can have kind of mindfulness and awareness during it but sometimes i need to pause the game to practice my DILD. i know in dreams nothing will pause for me but i allow myself to deal with DILD very slowly (but continuously) as too much pressure have counter-effect on our progress.
so even if you could hold your awareness for some minutes in busy situations, that's good! it will get better day after day!

summery of week 7=

this week, i did RRC (remembering the last 15 minutes and sometimes more.....of my daily activities and the future goals in that day) plus doing 3 types of RC every half an hour. I also do them in busy situations.....but i still have not catched myself 100% for doing RRC+RC in front of mirror (my dream sign) and i only remember to do it 80% of times. so i have a lot of works in this regard. i still have difficultly to do my practice when i am highly exited too....so i can't have much expectation to have LD in my dreams and i need more practice.

from last two days until now, i have eliminated my 1 hour daily meditation and instead, i practice ADR (all day reality check). when ever i am distracted, i try to return my mind to my ADR practice...not only it is a kind of keeping mindfulness but it is a constant RC in my daily life. my RC for ADR, is feeling the tactile sense of my feet on the ground. so if i can touch the ground beneath my feet, i am awake and if i don't feel it, i am dreaming. i can hold this awareness overally 15 minutes per hour (for example, i can hold my awareness on my RC for 1 minute and then my mind is distracted for 3 minutes and again 1 minutes of awareness and then about 3-4 minutes of distraction and so on....).

my results in this week:
- in 4 situation in my dreams in this week, i stopped and analyzed the dream and i knew something is wrong but i didn't do RC....damn....
- i had 2 FA.
- i did 1 RC but it failed to show me that i am dreaming.
- no LD from this DILD practice (i can't expect it too because it is very soon).

well, after 4 days of doing ADR (all day RC) and paying attention to the tactile feeling of the ground, i had a dream tonight about it and the feeling of ground beneath my feet was nearly the same as wakefulness. so i think it's not a good idea to pay attention to that RC for all day long. so i may want to change this type of RC to another thing. i think as master sivason said, i should pay attention to the objects around me and their details and if they change. this is what he does:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

Stability of the visual field.

Basically if you are lucid and look at anything for more than a few seconds inconsistencies appear. This could be a slight rotation to what you are seeing that keeps self correcting, or slight moving patterns in things like wood grain. You will also notice that fine detail is missing in a dream, as in a lack of tiny dust flecks and things like that. I simply take 30 seconds many times a day and look directly at something and watch carefully for these instabilities.

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summery of week 8=

I still do RRC and RC, 2 times per hour. also i did dream yoga for 5 minutes per hour too (thinking that i am dreaming in my waking life).
I also did ADR (all day reality check) every 5 minutes (looking at objects if they change or not).

now the results of this week=

- 1 LD (i felt strange in my dream and then RCed and saw that objects changed).
- 2 failed RC (I did RC but they failed to show me that i am dreaming).
- in 3 situations in my dream i could notice that things are strange but didn't RC.

for this week, i continue my previous practices.

Yaya have you ever tried maintaining awareness for a longer period of time? Like over 5 minutes? I find that's the real difficult stuff.

Hello dear Mimi!

well, of course it is hard!

i can only hold my awareness on dream yoga (convincing ourselves we are dreaming, not awake) for 5 minutes per hour. you can't believe what happened to me when i started to believe that this wakefulness is just a dream....in first days, my blood pressure decreased and i was stressed so bad. as a result, my immune system function was really suppressed because of the mental tension. so i easily catch cold although i was at home and i wasn't among the others to get their virus. so it was a sign of a deep transformation.
a
in that 5 minutes per hour of awareness on dream yoga, i feel high vibration of energy in my head and i feel hyper-awake. sometimes i feel i am going to go crazy....but that's good! i like it.

so if i want to extend that 5 minutes to say, 10 minutes, i am sure i will be exploded or really shocked. :poke:

good thing is that, in every 5 minutes (12 times per hour), i do an RC (not a long RC which i do every half an hour, but a simple quick one i do for my ADR (all day reality check) every 5 minutes.

wait a minute.... this approach gave me only 2 LD in these 8 weeks. so...i am a bit slow. in these day, i really think about LD most of the time.

so do you think if i extend my 5 minutes of dream yoga per hour (or any other typed of awareness) to more minutes, it would give me better and quicker results?

you are very very more experienced than me and you have always help me very kindly :hug: . so, i am very exited to listen to your new advice!

thank you!

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Originally Posted by yaya

Hello dear Mimi!

well, of course it is hard!

i can only hold my awareness on dream yoga (convincing ourselves we are dreaming, not awake) for 5 minutes per hour. you can't believe what happened to me when i started to believe that this wakefulness is just a dream....in first days, my blood pressure decreased and i was stressed so bad. as a result, my immune system function was really suppressed because of the mental tension. so i easily catch cold although i was at home and i wasn't among the others to get their virus. so it was a sign of a deep transformation.
a
in that 5 minutes per hour of awareness on dream yoga, i feel high vibration of energy in my head and i feel hyper-awake. sometimes i feel i am going to go crazy....but that's good! i like it.

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Damn, that sounds extreme! And unhealthy, you sure it's because of dream yoga and not something unrelated? You should ask Sivason if you haven't already.

Yeah, 1 LD per month doesn't sound too good.. Do you use WBTB though? I actually don't think you should extend those 5 minutes, if you say it makes you feel sick and weird.
Here's what I am trying to do these days. And I put emphasize on "trying" because it's so damn difficult to maintain and easy to forget XD I try to keep in mind, for as long as possible, where I am, what am I doing, and if it makes sense to my person. I also do RRCs asking questions like that. I checked many of my dreams and realized even only the location in the majority of them doesn't make sense, if only I could ask myself "does it make sense for me to be here?" I would be lucid in 60% or more of my dreams. So I'm trying to keep an eye out on where am I, what am I doing, and if it makes logical sense. Though I'd say it really is important to think if your situation logically ties in to yourself, that way you would know you're in a weird situation and you're dreaming.
Example of what I'd consider "bad" awareness:
In a dream, I find myself living at aunt's house, I ask myself "Wait, where am I?" *checks surroundings* "Oh, I'm at my aunt's house, okay"
Example of what I'd consider "good" (self) awareness:
In a dream, I find myself living at my aunt's house, I ask myself "Wait, where am I?" *checks surroundings* "Oh, I'm at my aunt's house. Does it make sense for me to be here? ..No, I don't live here!" *does reality check* Lucidity!
^ In a perfect world XD
That's my current awareness practice.. Could be unideal so let me know, but it makes sense to me. Now if only practicing it would be as easy as explaining it >.>

p.s. I'm not saying you're doing wrong by doing dream yoga, if it works for you, keep doing it. I just never understood why it allegedly works. I mean if you spend your days thinking you are dreaming, and doing nothing about it, like not using dream control or doing anything fun or dream goals (because you can't, you're awake, duh), isn't it likely you will do the exact same thing in your dreams? Just out of habit? Like be in a dream, think you are dreaming, and then do nothing because that's what you're used to doing in waking life? I don't know, it sounds like that's what would happen to me, if anyone could explain how imagining you are dreaming the whole day can induce lucidity, that would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Damn, that sounds extreme! And unhealthy, you sure it's because of dream yoga and not something unrelated? You should ask Sivason if you haven't already.

Yeah, 1 LD per month doesn't sound too good.. Do you use WBTB though? I actually don't think you should extend those 5 minutes, if you say it makes you feel sick and weird.
Here's what I am trying to do these days. And I put emphasize on "trying" because it's so damn difficult to maintain and easy to forget XD I try to keep in mind, for as long as possible, where I am, what am I doing, and if it makes sense to my person. I also do RRCs asking questions like that. I checked many of my dreams and realized even only the location in the majority of them doesn't make sense, if only I could ask myself "does it make sense for me to be here?" I would be lucid in 60% or more of my dreams. So I'm trying to keep an eye out on where am I, what am I doing, and if it makes logical sense. Though I'd say it really is important to think if your situation logically ties in to yourself, that way you would know you're in a weird situation and you're dreaming.
Example of what I'd consider "bad" awareness:
In a dream, I find myself living at aunt's house, I ask myself "Wait, where am I?" *checks surroundings* "Oh, I'm at my aunt's house, okay"
Example of what I'd consider "good" (self) awareness:
In a dream, I find myself living at my aunt's house, I ask myself "Wait, where am I?" *checks surroundings* "Oh, I'm at my aunt's house. Does it make sense for me to be here? ..No, I don't live here!" *does reality check* Lucidity!
^ In a perfect world XD
That's my current awareness practice.. Could be unideal so let me know, but it makes sense to me. Now if only practicing it would be as easy as explaining it >.>

p.s. I'm not saying you're doing wrong by doing dream yoga, if it works for you, keep doing it. I just never understood why it allegedly works. I mean if you spend your days thinking you are dreaming, and doing nothing about it, like not using dream control or doing anything fun or dream goals (because you can't, you're awake, duh), isn't it likely you will do the exact same thing in your dreams? Just out of habit? Like be in a dream, think you are dreaming, and then do nothing because that's what you're used to doing in waking life? I don't know, it sounds like that's what would happen to me, if anyone could explain how imagining you are dreaming the whole day can induce lucidity, that would be awesome.

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WOW! thank you sooooo much, my dear sister!:loveyou:

well, i do that dream yoga to make me believe that i could be dreaming in every moment of my life. because sometimes i am sure i am awake and RC seems pointless to me, then i chose this dream yoga to make me believe that why not i am dreaming now? then my RC would have more meaning to me and they can give me more sense of wonder and exploring my environment.


and sure, i do WBTB as i am practicing WILD too.;)

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your way of LD practice sounds great. I want to do your method all day long. although i study 6 hours a day but i am OK to do that every 5 minutes for some minutes while i study. for the rest of the day, i only think about your method. i do this because....i am thirsty of LD....:drool:


so my schedule for these weeks has changed:

1- doing Mimi method= i should ALWAYS think about where i am? does it make sense to be here?
as i may dream about my home, i would ask" does it make sense to do what i am doing now?"
then i continue my awareness on the continuum of what i was doing. if this awareness was cut by thoughts, then i ask those questions again to make sure that i am still there.

2- i do RRC and RC after each time i do phase number 1. (i like RRC because it make me hyper-aware).

3- doing ADA with phase number 1.

i do number 3 because in our dreams, our IQ highly drops.

for example, if our IQ is 120 now , our IQ is...say...60 in our dreams. that's because our logic part of the brain is shutted off and if we dream we are a flower, that is absolutely true for us. (i think people with IQ of 60, still can recognize they are not flower....LOL).

but if we train the muscle of our brains by ADA or dream yoga (the way master Sivason teaches and not the Dream yoga i do), the brain is not that dormant in our dream.
so in this way, if our IQ is 120, it would decrease to only 90. that's enough to recognize our selves and our odd environment to make us lucid in dreams.

by that said. i think wondering for some minutes and doing RC several times in a day will not take us ANYWHERE...at least my first hand experience here is indication for that..i hope the others have better luck than me.

so there is no easy way to LD and even if it cost me to do hard things like ADA for all of my life, then i do it because there is no other way.

thank you again Mimi, you saved my life :D

Don't mention it.

Oh, I see how dream yoga helps you with RCs then.

You can do all that but in my opinion, you shouldn't overcomplicate it. Because then you start worrying if you're doing it right. I don't think you should always think about where you are, but just keep a passive awareness of your location and what you're doing, in the back of your mind, especially when you're busy. You can bring it to the front when you're not doing things that require you to pay attention so much.
Though I don't think your IQ has much to do with realizing if you're dreaming or not, I'm not sure, you know how it is online, on one site it says one thing and on another, a completely different thing..

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if we dream we are a flower, that is absolutely true for us.

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LOL, that's hilarious cause I could totally imagine myself dreaming that I'm a flower and be totally okay with me *inside dream* "Huh? What's going on? Oh, hey, I'm a flower.. 8D" *dream continues without lucidity* God dammit brain XD

And you're right, doing RCs and being aware from time to time doesn't seem to be very effective in the quest of having regular/frequent lucid dreams, at least not for us. That's why I'm trying to raise my general awareness in waking life, I believe that living a non-zombie, mindful life is the key to becoming a very good lucid dreamer.

thank you very much clarifications on how to do the methods! :zocks:

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

LOL, that's hilarious cause I could totally imagine myself dreaming that I'm a flower and be totally okay with me *inside dream* "Huh? What's going on? Oh, hey, I'm a flower.. 8D" *dream continues without lucidity* God dammit brain XD

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:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Hey yaya, I just had a quick question... you said you were also using the SSILD method, so i was wondering how you worked that into your lucid routine? like do you wake up during the night and perform the cycles and how long do you spend on each cycle?

Hi Kxngoliver!

Well, As i don't like dream journal and i never write even one sentence, SSILD does the whole work for me.

i do SSILD when i wake up spontaneously for several times each night (sometimes i use alarm to wake me up one time during the night and then before falling sleep, i tell myself that i will wake up several times spontaneously and i do). each time i wake up, i do SSILD very quickly for about 6 cycles which takes me only 3-4 minutes (in order not to fall sleep prematurely, i raise my tongue inside my mouth). then i practice WILD too.

doing SSILD makes me to remember 90% of my dreams with full clarity (like HD film).:D
so that's the point of doing SSILD for me.

This morning I had a dream that I was being chased by a tiger, and as I was running away, I suddenly became more aware of my surroundings and situation and thought "ugh, I'm being chased by a tiger.. wait, this is kinda weird.. and it seems familiar.. did I dream about this before? Am I dreaming NOW?" I did a nose pinch RC and realized I'm dreaming because I could breathe through my pinched nose. Unfortunately, immediately after that I had a false awakening and the dream ended, but still, a good sign of increased awareness? Maybe being mindful of your location and what's going on while awake pays off in dreams, eventually.

Dear Mimi!

i never thought your method plus practicing some ADA would give me immediate LD last night!

I was in my house and it was the big test day. in reality that test day is the next 6 months. so i was very sad...the worse thing was that i was late for moving toward the test center. that feeling triggered my awareness to ask those questions you told me to ask....i mean i told to myself, where am i?

well i was at home...then i asked does it make sense to have that test so early?

and then i was shocked and i did a RC. that RC failed to tell me i am dreaming or not...but i think those ADA practices made my mind stronger than before to re-challenge the situation once more time....then i told: no...that's impossible i be in this situation...i know that's weird (like your tiger dream)..then i did RC again and it partially could tell me that i was dreaming....

then i started to enjoy my dream and i was exited and was running like a fool toward every door and passed through them...but then i lost my control and i was about to wake up....then i told" nooooo...please....hey dream,...forgive me...i forgot to stabilize the dream and i will do it now..."
but it didn't listen to me and i woke up....:cackle:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

a good sign of increased awareness? Maybe being mindful of your location and what's going on while awake pays off in dreams, eventually.

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so sure...it does....in my case it did! ;)

Haha, sounds awesome, congrats! :armflap:
We should really keep it up. By the way, try to do at least 2 RCs in a row, just in case the first one fails, like it happened in this dream. Also, did you ever try to stabilize a lucid dream by firmly touching something around you with your hands? It helps you ground yourself in the dream and also blows your mind how amazingly real it all feels :drool:

Awareness

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Haha, sounds awesome, congrats! :armflap:

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thank you!:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

try to do at least 2 RCs in a row, just in case the first one fails, like it happened in this dream.

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last night, i noticed the odd situation again and did RC but my RC failed again to show me i am awake or not. that stupid RC was nose plugging. i have changed it since last month and i never do it, but my subconscious mind still likes to do that....i think she has not installed the updated versions of new RCs for me.:chuckle:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Also, did you ever try to stabilize a lucid dream by firmly touching something around you with your hands? It helps you ground yourself in the dream and also blows your mind how amazingly real it all feels :drool:

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yes! in my first LDs, i did but then i became over-confident and didn't do the stabilization methods....that's bad....i will try to be a good girl and do the disciplines. :)

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Originally Posted by Vahid

Awareness

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WOW! thank you bro! that was very meaningful! i hope i can reach to that state someday! ;)

Actually, nose RC is one of the more reliable RCs out there. But there are no foolproof RCs, and to decrease the chances of the nose pinch RC failing (not being able to breathe through pinched nose in a dream) you should make sure you breathe in and out at least 3 times, and expect to be able to breathe, because as you know, expecting something to happen in the dream world will make it happen.

Also, what do you think about checking the clock on your phone as an RC? I think this RC could even make you lucid before you check the time, because for people who always have their phone with them like I do, once you're in a dream and can't find your phone, your awareness suddenly spikes up and you start asking questions that make it obvious you're dreaming.

p.s. I too forget to stabilize the dream, had too many lucids end prematurely because I forgot to stabilize them, it sucks >_<

So yaya, would you say it's more of a recall technique or a lucid one?

Thank you very much dear Mimi! that really helps!:bow:

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Originally Posted by Kxngoliver

So yaya, would you say it's more of a recall technique or a lucid one?

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to really know if SSILD is a LD method or recall technique, I practiced SSILD alone for 2 months (some months ago) and it mostly helped me in dream recall and it didn't give me much LD. so i count it as a way to boost the dream recall and its clarity.

i think SSILD is a good LD technique for those who can do WILD easily. also it can be a LD method if we combine it with ADA and other DILD methods.

i hope it helped!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Actually, nose RC is one of the more reliable RCs out there. But there are no foolproof RCs, and to decrease the chances of the nose pinch RC failing (not being able to breathe through pinched nose in a dream) you should make sure you breathe in and out at least 3 times, and expect to be able to breathe, because as you know, expecting something to happen in the dream world will make it happen.

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When I RC during the day, I try to get the feel of a negative RC indicative of dreaming. So now that I had my first LD and recently, the image of my left hand in all its funky glory is burned into memory. I usually pause, close my eyes and take a few paced breaths to visualize how it looked, then proceed with the hand RC. I also follow it up with a nose pinch, and I do much the same thing though I've yet to do that in a dream. However after taking a few breaths it gives me a good feel for the breath and then I don't over-exaggerate breathing while pinching my nose.

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Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

When I RC during the day, I try to get the feel of a negative RC indicative of dreaming. So now that I had my first LD and recently, the image of my left hand in all its funky glory is burned into memory. I usually pause, close my eyes and take a few paced breaths to visualize how it looked, then proceed with the hand RC. I also follow it up with a nose pinch, and I do much the same thing though I've yet to do that in a dream. However after taking a few breaths it gives me a good feel for the breath and then I don't over-exaggerate breathing while pinching my nose.

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Be careful with closing your eyes though, if it becomes a habit you might do it in dreams, and many people find that if they close their eyes while dreaming, they wake up, or the dream fades.

Didn't know that! Now I'm thinking do I ever remember closing my eyes in a dream? I can't remember ever doing that! Good point.

summery of week 9=

- number of LD= 3

i do RC every night in my dreams....some of them fail to show me that i am dreaming (like before) (i did RC, 4 times last night but they were normal as waking life).

but the new problem is that even if the RCs show me that i am dreaming, i don't believe that i am dreaming. for example, i read something in dream and it changed to something else but then i told to myself= oh come on....that's impossible i be dreaming.... then i woke up....

this is the most stupid thing that can happen while practicing DILD.

so to really believe that i might be dreaming, i am going to extend my dream yoga practicing time (i mean the dream yoga which is about thinking we are dreaming even if we are awake during the day) so it would be easier to accept that i am dreaming while RCing.

I am looking up on you. Your persistence is exemplary. Bravo! and keep it up! (a little bit envious :) )

oh! thank you very much, Gyalogos!

but....i may want to give up this method after these 10 weeks. because although everything is going fine with this method but my dreams are going to be very realistic and no RC works inside my dreams (90% of the times). in these 9 weeks, i had more than 20 dreams which i RCed inside them and they failed to show me i am dreaming or not.

so i practice DILD and i become aware in dreams that something is wrong and i RC but...they can't tell me the truth. sometimes i ignore the result of the RC too even if they successfully works for me.

RCs like nose plugging, staring at objects to see if they change, looking at my hands, reading something from my hand, they all couldn't tell me i was dreaming....

what's the point of practicing DILD if it doesn't work well when you are close to have LD?

Changing technics is not giving up persistence. Sometimes I simply turn off from LD. You are changing, and not on a hectic way (like every week), and I like this attitude.

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Originally Posted by yaya

but the new problem is that even if the RCs show me that i am dreaming, i don't believe that i am dreaming. for example, i read something in dream and it changed to something else but then i told to myself= oh come on....that's impossible i be dreaming.... then i woke up....

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That really does sound problematic. Maybe you don't fully accept the fact that you could be dreaming at any moment during waking life? I know it's easy to say "yeah, yeah I could be dreaming (but I'm probably not)" but do you really believe that? You must really believe it. I used to think I believed it too, until I had dreams that were incredibly real-life like, which convinced me that you can never, ever know 100% that you are dreaming, no matter how awake you feel and how realistic everything feels, you COULD be dreaming at ANY moment. That's something to really contemplate and fully try to understand and accept, beyond the fake, superficial level mentioned earlier.

p.s. it's great that you're doing RCs in dreams, I do them a lot in waking life and still never did one in a dream.. If I do get suspicious in a dream that I might be dreaming though, I quickly become lucid, without being skeptical and having to do multiple RCs. Maybe you should try new RCs? I don't know, I've never heard of doing so many RCs and still not becoming lucid..

Yaya, I think the technique is fine. It seems like you are only missing a small element here. What that element is, I'm not sure, but the fact that you are RCing so frequently in dreams is a great sign. I wonder if making some affirmations before relaxing into SSILD will help bring the point home in dream. You may just need to heighten your awareness pre-dream.

You might also practice becoming lucid during the day (imagining how you will become lucid, what RC you will use, what the dream sign will be). You might just incubate something helpful.

thank you very much guys! you make me confident!:zocks:

and yes...you are right about my mistakes...actually i did RC every 5 minutes which made the practice less effective. so i think it is better to examine my environment and my state plus doing RC only every 1 hour. maybe it can add more depth to my DILD practice.

as i didn't have any night time practice, i am going to do LD incubation and affirmations while SSILD too!

let's see how it will work!:)

MILD sounds like a good add on to SSILD. :) I just hope your brain doesn't become too active that you'll stay awake.

summery of week 10=

i have done what i told the last time in this thread and it gave me better result. i think the number of RC is not important but its quality is very important.
doing RC and holding self-awareness for 2 minutes every 1 hour was better than doing RC alone every 5 minutes.

although i only had one short LD in this week, but at least in all of my dreams, i come to release that something is wrong. last night, i had a dream and i knew it was not normal and i sat on a chair and thought why it is not normal for 5 minutes. as i didn't RC so i didn't become lucid but i am already satisfies that at least i am not like a zombie in my dreams.

as these 10 weeks was not enough for DILD, i am going to do another 10 weeks of DILD. I have killed a lot of time in those 10 weeks on finding a balanced formula of doing RC+self-awareness and i think i have a better formula now after many trials and errors.

That's a lot of dedication, yaya. This all going to pay off soon, I'm sure. Great job!

summery of week 11=

I did RC+self awareness every hour and whenever i remembered to do. Every section, it took me 2 minutes.

result= I had 4 LDs in this week :rolllaugh: i never had such a result!!!!

the key for me was WBTB. if i did a proper WBTB (30 mins) + some affirmations (such as: i will RC in my dreams) then i had a guaranteed LD.

but if i eliminated WBTB, then i was doomed to fail.

Nice, looks like you've found your magic formula so to say lol, good for you!

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Originally Posted by yaya

summery of week 11=

I did RC+self awareness every hour and whenever i remembered to do. Every section, it took me 2 minutes.

result= I had 4 LDs in this week :rolllaugh: i never had such a result!!!!

the key for me was WBTB. if i did a proper WBTB (30 mins) + some affirmations (such as: i will RC in my dreams) then i had a guaranteed LD.

but if i eliminated WBTB, then i was doomed to fail.

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This. I think many LDers make the mistake of trying to LD at the wrong time, at bedtime or even during the day. You should be trying to LD during your late REM periods, at least until experience starts getting you DILDs regardless of REM period/nighttime awakenings. This is one of biggest problems in how we teach lucid dreaming. Beginners forego supposedly 'advanced' techniques and only RC during the day to induce lucid dreams when that alone will only yield DILDs with experience. The most effective approach is some kind of state awareness combined with techniques to raise general dream awareness (see Sensei's guides), ie. building dream recall, WBTB, microWBTB, MILD, SSILD.