Meditating into sleep when you first go to bed

Recently I have been trying SSILD after WBTB. It feels quite suited to me and it seems to be having wonderful effects on dream recall and causing DILDs. The past few days I have been trying it, I have mostly become lucid by just suddenly realising I'm dreaming a few minutes into the dream. I didn't even need to reality check, it just seemed to happen spontaneously. My understanding is that this is due to increased awareness that was carried over from SSILD, which basically has you meditating yourself to sleep by bring your attention to the three main senses one at a time for a while.

My question is, does meditating as you fall asleep or doing SSILD before you first go to bed have an effect on your awareness in dreams, level of dream recall and quality of sleep? CosmicIron (I think I got that name right) who wrote the SSILD tutorial, if I remember correctly, says there's no point doing SSILD unless it's from a WBTB. But I've heard some meditators say that falling asleep mindfully brings a more restful sleep, and as far as I'm aware the practice of falling asleep consciously into NREM is a part of Tibetan Dream Yoga.

So does making an effort to be more aware whilst first falling asleep bring more awareness into the dreams throughout the whole night? It seems logical that it should, since the last thing you do before sleeping usually has an effect. I myself have had a few experiences of dreaming I was meditating after falling asleep following my breath. Even if it does not lead to lucidity in the first 4-5 hours, if we're being more aware in our dreams during that time (even if we don't know it), that would surely have an effect on our minds during a WBTB and/or in the latter part of the night. Right?

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on this matter? :happyface:

It's possible to fall asleep consciously at bedtime. I find it fairly challenging though, and I usually make that the goal of the night (not worrying about getting enough sleep, having lucid dreams later, etc.) I'm sure it gets easier with practice.

There are some good threads on NREM and delta: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...lta-sleep.html is fascinating. I will also post my own thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...ty-checks.html

Concerning meditation, I have had at least one DILD that occurred just from following the breath before a REM cycle. And yes, it has been suggested that REM is a natural regulator of emotions, and going to sleep disturbed or angry can most certainly affect the quality of sleep (and especially of dreams. Performing breath meditation before bed is highly effective for calming the mind and (if you want to try it) preparing to FAC at bedtime.

Concerning REM and emotions, check out this article: The Science of Sleep: Dreaming, Depression, and How REM Sleep Regulates Negative Emotions | Brain Pickings

I think we should all explore sleep and meditation for more reasons than just lucid dreams. I meditate myself to sleep every time I sleep. It is a ood thing for health and well being. I am sure it has a positive effect on lucidity also, but it is just my opinion.

I often have an awareness boost when I go to bed, and I do like to meditate then, but then, I don't fall asleep so I stop and try to get into the most distracted, less aware mindset with the hopes of falling asleep. I don't know what I should be doing though...

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Originally Posted by Occipitalred

I often have an awareness boost when I go to bed, and I do like to meditate then, but then, I don't fall asleep so I stop and try to get into the most distracted, less aware mindset with the hopes of falling asleep. I don't know what I should be doing though...

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Perhaps if you are trying to be aware of breath, you are at a stage where that means focusing/thinking about breath. It is a subtle shift to experience breath while not thinking about breath. This kind of topic is hard to put into words. Also, breath is a function of the physical body and there fore can keep you focused on the physical body. If instead you use a mantra or a sensation, such a chakra awareness, you will be more likely to shift into sleep while still in a meditative state.

Thank you for those words, Sivason. I did understand your words but I am not sure that the comment was necessarily helpful (it might already be what I do) but it did give me courage.

I think I'll stick with a short mantra and not let myself be scared by insomnia tonight. :sleepmeditate2:

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Originally Posted by sivason

Also, breath is a function of the physical body and there fore can keep you focused on the physical body. If instead you use a mantra or a sensation, such a chakra awareness, you will be more likely to shift into sleep while still in a meditative state.

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Or perhaps attend awareness itself? Not breath, not bodily sensations, not mantra. This is where I generally shift my attention during meditation when I'm sufficiently calm, quiet and relaxed and breathing becomes so subtle it's no longer interesting and barely evident. I don't meditate as I go to sleep, but I can imagine this would be a fine way to fall off into sleep.

can someone point me in the right direction for finding this meditation in bed as you fall asleep? seems like a calm way to end the day. thanks you

I learned the 'counting your breaths' meditation from Meditation for Dummies and found it a very effective method for falling asleep quicker. I have a bad habit of falling into 'daydreams' or thought cycles if I'm not careful which can cause me to be restless and take a while to fall out of enough to sleep.

I count my breaths from 1-10 over and over, and when I start losing my place I know I'm going to be asleep very soon. I also make sure to breathe from my diaphragm, which does wonders.

Right now, I can't say whether or not this has had an effect on my dreaming, as I'm working my recall back up.

I have found that meditating on a lotus at the throat chakra leads to more vivid dreams, better recall, and being aware of awaking from dreams. It is definitely a beneficial practice.

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Originally Posted by sivason

I think we should all explore sleep and meditation for more reasons than just lucid dreams. I meditate myself to sleep every time I sleep. It is a ood thing for health and well being. I am sure it has a positive effect on lucidity also, but it is just my opinion.

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I very much agree! You suggested that some meditations might be more effective for this than following the breath. I'm interested, how do you meditate yourself to sleep?

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I have found that meditating on a lotus at the throat chakra leads to more vivid dreams, better recall, and being aware of awaking from dreams. It is definitely a beneficial practice.

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Is this something anyone can helpfully learn? Do you know any good sources for learning this? I meditate quite a bit, but am unfamiliar with chakras and visualizing lotuses in them :)

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Originally Posted by Rallan

Is this something anyone can helpfully learn? Do you know any good sources for learning this? I meditate quite a bit, but am unfamiliar with chakras and visualizing lotuses in them :)

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Of course! It's actually even referenced in the WILD section of LaBerge's ETWOLD. It helps to be good at visualization: basically, just practice looking at an object for a while, then close your eyes and try to see it in your mind. Try to manipulate it (zoom in, out, rotate, view it from different angles, and so on), once you get to the point where you can bring up the image without much effort, then you can imagine it floating into your throat area, and you're basically then doing this meditation.

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Originally Posted by Rallan

Is this something anyone can helpfully learn? Do you know any good sources for learning this? I meditate quite a bit, but am unfamiliar with chakras and visualizing lotuses in them :)

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To do it in the way proper to authentic Tibetan Buddhism or Vajrayana, very difficult. To the extent needed for lucid dreaming, dead easy. If you struggle with visualisation, simply take an apple or any other commonplace object and train up your skill by repeatedly looking at it, closing your eyes, and picturing it in your mind's eye. For the actual method, I would refer you to ETWOLD as FryingMan said, or Dreaming Yourself Awake by B. Allan Wallace, or The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. Also check out our very own Sivason's Dream Yoga class!

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Originally Posted by Rallan

Is this something anyone can helpfully learn? Do you know any good sources for learning this? I meditate quite a bit, but am unfamiliar with chakras and visualizing lotuses in them :)

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You train visualization by visualizing. Take some objects from around your house, take a good long look at them, then close your eyes and visualize them. Once you can do that, do it without looking at thdm beforehand. Once you can do that, switch to visualizing people and animals, then people and animals doing different actions, and finally a full landscape. Congratulations, you now possess good visualization skills.

Expect this to take anywhere from 1 week to a couple months depending on how good you are. Once you can do all of these exercises, try developing sound and touch. Learn to V-WILD. Learn to do controlled hallucinations. Learn some energy work or something.

.. I must be sleepier than I thought cause I wrote almost all of that without thinking. Yeah I'm going to bed.. soon..

This has all been incredibly helpful! Thanks everybody! :biggrin:

No concerns. No time. Feeling the confort and freedom in the bed. Enjoying it. Giving the same importance to relaxation, as to awareness. My personal awareness technique (now!!!) is counting from 100 to 1 (one number - on exhalation), after from 50 to 1. Then I turn to my other side. Again 100-1 and 50-1. Turning to other side. After 3-4 turns it is very heavy to turn again. Then I am counting with smaller numbers (30-20 to 1). I know that the thruth is near, when I am in hevy HI and/or some kinetic sensations and/or audio stuff. After this it is WILD or OFF. WILD is rare, but last year I had 5 of them, and I was not doing the meditations every night and I am playing with it, always changing the technique (with the same core: awareness). The WILDs are some 5-10 minutes long, and good ones. I was trying out many things in this short WILDs. I want to try out the "mega DEILD chaining". I am good at DEILD, but I always wake up to write down the dream. I want to risk my LD memories, and make a go to slepp WILD and after DEILD until I can.

(no Word, no Google translator...I am sure, it is a mess :) )

A little edit:

If somebody is trying the counting back thing...You can count and daydream at the same time. In this situation the counting is in the background. It is not OK. The counting must be in the foreground. I give a special attention to the round numbers (90, 80, 70....), to refocus my awareness. I am counting and looking what is happening in the blackness (what is never black). If there is happening something (HI) then I look behind that. So the pictures are comming and going and not "steeling" my attention.....Yeah, somewhere here I mostly lose my awareness....