Need help with stabilizing

Hello,

Since I started practicing LD, I was very inconsistent in following fundamentals, but after coule of months I can now safely say that I can induce LD almost every night I want. When I do WBTB, meditate and go to sleep affirmating that I will hold onto my awareness, I succeed in having at least one LD in 80% of the time.

It sounds ideal, but the fact is that I haven´t had one single satisfying LD. Anytime I realized I am in a dream or I am about to enter a dream, i felt STRONG physical sensations, that always cast me back to normal waking state.

At first it was just simple excitement that interrupted my dream. I remember that my heart would go crazy and my eyes would open wide. I was not worried, not too much anyway: I knew from many sources this happens to a lot of begginers.

But now it has been months, and those physical sensations are no fun anymore. I can´t even get a good
look how it looks inside an LD (I can see there is a difference, but I never remain long enough). The things I feel when realizing it is a dream are getting worse. Now they are becoming physically painful. It is not like I am afraid of it, but... If I was told to describe how I imagine dying is like, I would think of this feelings first. It´s like my whole body is being repeatedly slammed on my bed while hearing high-pitched noise in my ears and experiencing strange feeling of losing myself.

That´s it, I hope someone will have a reasonable explanation why it is getting worse.

Sounds like some sensations that could be attributed to out of body experiences or just HI maybe. One thing that could help: once you get into the lucid dream engage your 5 senses and solely put your awareness into the dream. Touch the ground, feel the air brushing against your body, hear the birds on the tree nearby chirping, taste a blueberry off of a blueberry bush, smell the warm apple pie that that is being made in a house nearby - any of those will work, but try to engage all of your 5 senses. That always works for me no matter what, and I'm betting it'll solve your problem. Once all of your attention is in the dream it seems to stabilize very well.

My dreams stabilize even better if I retain self awareness the entire time I'm in them. Check into that if you want.

Hope this helps.

OneUp

Hi,

thanks for your reply. While I am am definitely not going to stop trying, ever, still a problem lays ahead: the sensations are sometimes so big I lose control over my body, and although I try to concentrate my whole mental energy to stay, each part of my body wants to go back.

I don´t know whether OBE´s are real or not, but this feeling sure seems like I am being ripped out of my body.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oski

Hi,

thanks for your reply. While I am am definitely not going to stop trying, ever, still a problem lays ahead: the sensations are sometimes so big I lose control over my body, and although I try to concentrate my whole mental energy to stay, each part of my body wants to go back.

I don´t know whether OBE´s are real or not, but this feeling sure seems like I am being ripped out of my body.

---

Ah aright I see. Wish I could help you out with that, but OBE's are not my specialty, but I do know a little bit about them. Maybe those sensations are tied to your "energy body" which, according to Robert Bruce, is the first body you use when immediately going out of body. Unbalanced "energy centers" could be causing all the chaotic sensations. Don't take my word for though, look into it a bit more as that's just my take on it.

Like I said before though it could be something tied to the hypnagogic state of consciousness. That seems to be the best bet.

I sincerely hope it has got nothing to do with energy body or thing like that. Not only am I not sure these things are real, but most importantly, I would have no idea how to deal with that kind of problem.

You mentioned hipnagogic state of consciousness. Isn´t that linked to WILD and stuff you see before entering it? My kind of sensations happen no matter what technique I use. Anyway, how is hipnagogic state capable of being such a pain in the neck and how is it possible that it´s not improving is still a question.

Sometimes I do have very intense transition/hypnogogic hallucinations.

- feeling of flying through space at warp speed, sometimes even being dragged on bumpy surface
- being lifted up and twisted into crazy shapes, like a pretzel or a ball
- hearing very loud wind, or thunder
- sinking through my bed or falling down a well

All these are normal, haha. I think the key is to go into this with truly opened mind. Tell yourself that you are safe and you will accept anything that will happen. Keep happy thoughts, think of something fun or beautiful to do in a lucid, like maybe visit a peaceful meadow or beach or something that's calm and cool to you.

Know, that whatever happens will last only seconds and after that you will be in a lucid dream. Think of HH as experience only few select people will have and enjoy it. You belong to elite group of people able to have such an amazing experience.

Oh, you can have HH either when you are WILDing, but sometimes even unexpectedly, when you getting back to bed at night after a potty break and your body falls asleep faster than your mind.

Wow, thanks! That actually made me feel a little less angry about my situation. I will try to change my approach to this issue: instead of trying hard to stay in LD, I will simply let go and try to just slip in between the pressure of HH.

It is really strange, though. I cannot talk to anyone about this, no one I know has experienced this kind of feeling, they just don´t get it. It is different emotion than anything in the world. Either it is not coming from body, or it is completely different protocol in central nervous system.

You know, I never believed in things like astral projection or OBE´s, but this HH really changes the view on the subject. Not that I believe it now.. I am just more open-minded. It is a strange world "in there".

I don't know a lot about OBE-s,Astral Projections etc.What you described were most likely HI(Hallucination Imagery)
if you don't know what is that,it is basicly last step in WILD.If you decide to continue with LD-ing,i will tell you that you
need to think of that stage as of something happy,enjoying experience,as something good.In other words,don't give
it much attention.HI is like visit to the Dentist or vaccination,if you think of it as torture,something bad),it will be torture/bad.
But if you think of it as something that will help you and that its something that has to be done,it won't be bad.

Hope i helped,If you have any questions,just ask!7
GoodbyE!

HI stands for Hypnagogic Imagery not Hallucination imagery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oski

Wow, thanks! That actually made me feel a little less angry about my situation. I will try to change my approach to this issue: instead of trying hard to stay in LD, I will simply let go and try to just slip in between the pressure of HH.

It is really strange, though. I cannot talk to anyone about this, no one I know has experienced this kind of feeling, they just don´t get it. It is different emotion than anything in the world. Either it is not coming from body, or it is completely different protocol in central nervous system.

You know, I never believed in things like astral projection or OBE´s, but this HH really changes the view on the subject. Not that I believe it now.. I am just more open-minded. It is a strange world "in there".

---

Sometimes it's hard to tell where the HH ends and a LD starts. For me personally, HH are more like watching a movie while sitting on one of those Disney motion rides. You are flying, moving, vibrating... or any kind of sensation, but still observing it only as an observer. After I enter a LD, I change from observer to participant and I really am inside of this 3-D environment, instead of just watching it like a movie. LDs are more calm and there is no crazy sensations at all.

And sadly, there is not that many people we can talk to about HH or LDs. And I don't blame them. There is no way anybody would understand if I told them that my sense of happiness in a LD is so incredibly strong, it becomes a physical feeling that is so intense it almost hurts and I feel happiness with every molecule of my body. There is no comparison to the happiest feeling I ever had in waking life. Or how intense the color is in lucids. How beautiful a single blade of grass can be. Or how "real" everything looks and feels. I feel more alive and being there and present in a lucid dream than I feel while I'm awake. It's like I see and experience the "true" form of things. The real core of the world. Not one that is diluted by our limited senses like eyesight or brain processing power.

I used to wake up from LDs after I started crying when I saw something beautiful or got incredibly happy. And lol, pretty much everything was beautiful and made me happy. Everytime I realized I'm dreaming and I realized I'm flying, I felt my face stretch to a humongous grin and I started laughing uncontrollably. I call these sensations "out of this world", because I really can't compare them to anything in this waking life.

And haha yup, my mind got extremely opened when I first time stood up from my body into a LD. Not that it wasn't already opened, haha. But that, and some other instances of "existing" outside of my physical body gave me some clues about other wonderful mysterious things that await our discovery.

Basically, I know that it is completely safe. It is just an instinct that is hard to fight, like when boxers learn not ot close their eyes before receiving a punch. I hope I will make it sometime. The other thing is that I do not know how the LD world feels like, so it is still a little bit scary. I remember one time I got to be in it for aobut three seconds. It was the strangest thing ever - it was so vivid, one moment I was standing there in my room next to my bed, the other I was lying on the same bed, awake. Actually, when I woke up, it felt less real than the dream itself, though it only lasted for a few moments. What am I trying to say is that the feeling is somewhat overwhelming.

Everytime we try to form a new habit or behaviour we'll become completely overwhelmed by it.

For example right now I am forming a habit of just walking around my town talking to one stranger a day (usually girls that I want to date) and the first day I was SUPER excited, until I realized how freaking scary it was. Then over a few days I got used to it, the brain adapts really quick! Then I finally got the courage to run up to a girl, and holy shit I was excited but also freaked out because I had no idea what to do, the experience ended very quickly because of over-excitement and me freezing at the same time, not able to act calmly.

Lucid dreams are the same way, we use the same brain for everything, so we go through the SAME process.

The problem with our society today is that we live in a world that is PROMOTING UNCONSCIOUSNESS, technology thinks for us, we rarely focus on just ONE thing. Our brains become overstimulated by social media, notifications on the phone, unhealthy food, TV, alcohol, porn. And what happens is that our brain becomes flooded with dopamine because we are constantly exposed to supernormal stimulus, in order to protect itself the brain then inhibits the RECEPTORS that are responsible for recieving motivation chemicals such as DOPAMINE, and even the substances that probably in large part affects our dreaming quaility, like acetylcholine. I am not 100% sure about the exact details, but just know that our experience become less vivid both during the day AND night when we are overstimulated. Why is our society geared towards this madness? Because it creates social order and comfortzones but at the same time lowers the natural self-esteem (as a child) of the people and we become the perfect consumer! It drives our economy!

Here I am when I am overstimulated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLSaxCbaHqE
And here I am when I am less overstimulated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx1eaBgKhrs

And now when I basically can find happiness simply by staring into a white wall and feel energized, barely need sleep and I don't dwell or overthink things, instead I just do it, I got this experience: Intuitive Sexual Awareness - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

So as complicated as everything above might have sounded, the solution for lucid dream inductions and stabilization in general is very simple:

Learn to focus and practice focus. You attract what you are, not what you want. :meditate: Simply breathe and be in the moment.

Meditation is a great way to practice this.

If we are habitually unfocused during the day, it's going to be very difficult to be focused and maintain focus when we are in a dream during the night. Seriously. If you can't even sit on a chair for a few minutes without going crazy, how are you supposed to handle a direct experience of that same crazy mind? This is what I asked myself the first time I tried meditation. I couldn't even sit with my thoughts for just a minute. Now I do one hour a night. And when first hearing this it sounds like something very hard, but the truth is that, no it's not hard to sit and enjoy the moment. What's more difficult is to try to cope and live in a mental prison of overwhelming thoughts and emotions, that's hard...

I'll end this with a quote from Aristoteles: "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence therefore, is not an act, but a habit."

Peace! :content:

Focus is extremely important, I always keep that in my mind. And I always spend my WBTB time meditating. Trouble comes when I try to focus, but also to fall asleep.

But realizing I am dreaming is not my problem, I am quite good in that. Problem is my fear of LD. And you are right about the thing that every new experience scares me. That is true, and it is a good point, which needs to be considered: most likely during my WBTB this night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oski

... Problem is my fear of LD. And you are right about the thing that every new experience scares me. That is true, and it is a good point, which needs to be considered: most likely during my WBTB this night.

---

Look around yourself now. You could be in a lucid dream. That's how real it might look, or even more real. It will be more beautiful and exciting than the waking life version. Indeed new things can be scary, like new job or new school, or moving to a new place. But they are also exciting because of new possibilities that await us. Happy dreams :bow:

That´s it, I had LD again this night (as I said, anytime I want to spend some time and effort, I succeed in inducing LD) and this time it lasted for a few moments longer than before, but the main thing: I did not wake up because any kind of strong feeling, but simply because dream crushed around me. And that means I am in a phase when all I need to do is learn how to stabilize once I am in a dream.

I spent one hour in the night meditating and repeating to myself that there is noting to be scared about. It helped, drastically.

Thank you all for your help, I think I am on my way to make one final step to becoming lucid dreamer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oski

... I did not wake up because any kind of strong feeling, but simply because dream crushed around me. And that means I am in a phase when all I need to do is learn how to stabilize once I am in a dream.

---

Congrats!!

Or, when you realize dream is ending, try to not wake up. When this happens to me, It just happens automatically. I can't really chose to wake up or not. At least not on conscious level.

But when I stay asleep and aware, I just lay there and I wait for next dream. Because even if dream collapses or ends, that doesn't mean you woke up. Even if everytime it feels to me like I woke up. I mean I lay there thinking "oh great, it's over, now what". Then I realize "wait a minute, I'm still here, I'll just wait for another dream". Then I realize I don't need to wait for another dream, since I am still asleep I can just stand up and be lucid. By then some visuals normally appear and I'm lucid in a dream, or they don't and I'm walking around in darkness yelling "look how bright it is" in hope to trick my mind and gain some vision. This way you can chain your LDs untill you decide you had enough, haha.

Oh, and while I am inbetween, I try to retell my previous LD with words, not just flash through the images of it, to commit it to my daytime memory. And I also count them, so if later I forget some transitions, I still know how many I had.