Is it like mana?

Hello everyone, this is my first topic in this forum.

Increasing the frequency of LD is something I strive for like 3 years, with very little progress. My LDs occur in somewhat regular intervals of 3 weeks or so. I wasn't yet able to induce two LDs in less than 5 days, and even if I force a WILD "prematurely", it is not very satisfying experience, with very limited control, literally forgettable one.

So I have been thinking, there may be something like "dream mana pool" in our minds which allows lucid dreaming when reaching certain level. There may be something like a "minimum level" which allows you to force low-quality LD, and then something like "spontaneous level" which induces an LD even if you don't wish for it (like a nocturnal emission :) ). Lucid dreaming drains some mana which then starts slowly replenishing.

In this model, the art of lucid dreaming is based (at least partially) on the ability to quickly replenish the dream mana, and also to increase the maximum dream mana, which I'd love to figure out how to train.

Do you guys think that the mana model could correspond to your own experience with LD frequency and quality? Or is it just my subjectively rooted observation?

I don't think it is like mana. As soon as I found out what worked for me, I didn't have problems with having multiple lucids a night. It was mostly a problem of searching in the dark for something I didn't know about, what it looked like or how it felt at all.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Hello everyone, this is my first topic in this forum.

Increasing the frequency of LD is something I strive for like 3 years, with very little progress. My LDs occur in somewhat regular intervals of 3 weeks or so. I wasn't yet able to induce two LDs in less than 5 days, and even if I force a WILD "prematurely", it is not very satisfying experience, with very limited control, literally forgettable one.

So I have been thinking, there may be something like "dream mana pool" in our minds which allows lucid dreaming when reaching certain level. There may be something like a "minimum level" which allows you to force low-quality LD, and then something like "spontaneous level" which induces an LD even if you don't wish for it (like a nocturnal emission :) ). Lucid dreaming drains some mana which then starts slowly replenishing.

In this model, the art of lucid dreaming is based (at least partially) on the ability to quickly replenish the dream mana, and also to increase the maximum dream mana, which I'd love to figure out how to train.

Do you guys think that the mana model could correspond to your own experience with LD frequency and quality? Or is it just my subjectively rooted observation?

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I think that could be a model to explain my experiences. Increasing max mana. I heard that using certain amounts of lucid energy will zap me to my body faster.

If this were the case then what would the implications be?

I think it would be the same as most people already do. Do the techniques, keep a DJ, lucid mindset, etc. And max mana will increase. Do you think the mana model would necesitate a different approach to LD?

You are probably right, things would be pretty much the same, but at least something would be different. I wouldn't try to induce a LD any soon after I had one, because I'd know that I haven't enough mana for it :) What if even trying to LD drains your energy? I could work with the fact that having another LD depends more on time than on changing a technique or a way of living/thinking.

In fact, I wish it is not the case, because I still secretly hope for finding my personal dreaming medicine, my holy grail of dreaming, which allows for LDing without any energy loss, without waiting for the psychical replenishment, like Hukif indicated...

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Originally Posted by Hukif

As soon as I found out what worked for me, I didn't have problems with having multiple lucids a night

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And can you tell me briefly what worked for you?

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Do you guys think that the mana model could correspond to your own experience with LD frequency and quality? Or is it just my subjectively rooted observation?

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Nope. As far as high can tell, there is no "dream mana pool" of lucid energy that fills over time, and also gets depleted, by LDing.

...Unless you consider waking-life self-awareness as a sort of energy of consciousness, and as you accumulate that self-awareness with daytime work, you will more likely be lucid, even accidentally; so developing your sense of Self (aka, waking-life self-awareness), you are indeed filling a pool of energy, of sorts. But I don't think that's what you're talking about (especially because there would be no depletion with this model).

Self-control is something related to lucidity that can be depleted, is replenished over time, and has a certain limited capacity. Self-control is the ability to consciously resist temptation. To see self-control in action, just try to meditate and keep the mind from wandering. It is tempting for the mind to wander and you will probably find that it is easy to keep the mind from wandering at first but becomes more difficult over time as self-control is depleted.

Self-control is needed to create new habits to replace old habits because old habits are tempting to maintain. Non-lucidity and lucidity can be considered habits. The weaker the habit, the more self-control that is needed to maintain it. The stronger the habit, the less self-control that is needed to maintain it.

Exercising self-control through use of it, like using a muscle, can increase its limited capacity over time.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

And can you tell me briefly what worked for you?

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Sure tihng. What works for me is maintaining a self-awareness of my own weight or as I call it the Gravity RC, which is no more than the self awareness of the weight and workings of weight on my waking life body as to make my mind aware of when I'm awake vs when I'm asleep.

I partially agree. It doesn't always apply, but it may be helpful for one to think of skill and control as a mana bar that can be expanded over time and "diminishes" less and less with practice.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

You are probably right, things would be pretty much the same, but at least something would be different. I wouldn't try to induce a LD any soon after I had one, because I'd know that I haven't enough mana for it :) What if even trying to LD drains your energy? I could work with the fact that having another LD depends more on time than on changing a technique or a way of living/thinking.

In fact, I wish it is not the case, because I still secretly hope for finding my personal dreaming medicine, my holy grail of dreaming, which allows for LDing without any energy loss, without waiting for the psychical replenishment, like Hukif indicated...

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Here is a short except from Andrew Holecek interview (dream yoga teacher) that I think relates to this (just watch a few mins until it changes subject)

https://youtu.be/_x9-e4MmuhQ?t=1687

Touching on how to conserve mental energy and how it could help with LD

If I understood the spoken English correctly, you wanted to point out the argument that concentrated mind (which could be trained by meditation) gets less distracted and thus less exhausted? Inspiring speech, although I am not convinced that it answers the question of lucid dreams depleting your mental energy.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

If I understood the spoken English correctly, you wanted to point out the argument that concentrated mind (which could be trained by meditation) gets less distracted and thus less exhausted? Inspiring speech, although I am not convinced that it answers the question of lucid dreams depleting your mental energy.

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No not all the answers but I think it makes sense.

Personally, I believe the way you conceptualize the process and act of LDing working is how it ultimately works. That said, that conceptualization and understanding of it you have is naturally going to evolve in subtle ways as time goes on, until when you look back your understanding has changed to such a degree that it only partially reflects the way you originally saw it.

What I think is important is to try and conceptualize it purposefully in ways that maximize the potential frequency and quality of your LDs. This is ultimately a combination of an active and passive process that takes place during the evolution of your conceptualization of how LDing works over the course of time and your experiences. Don't necessarily try and force a way to conceptualize how the process personally works for you--just let it be natural. Right now you see it as a mana pool, it's a system that makes sense to you. It's one whose landscape you know how to navigate... or at the very least, it's a way for you to get started at navigating the landscape that is LDing. As time goes on and you gain experience, try and keep an open mind and view the insights you gain into becoming lucid optimistically so as to maximize the effectiveness of the system of how it all works that develops in your mind and your understanding of it.

Truly I believe it's just a game of expectation and belief crossed with imagination and confidence. You are at the reigns of the horse, you can steer and guide where it goes. Yet, you are not the horse, the roads, or your surroundings. You have to adapt to the behavior of the horse and the physical makeup of the landscape and the roads available to you. Trying to force the horse through a moat or a deep chasm isn't going to work, yet that doesn't mean there isn't a bridge you can't find to cross. In other words, let go and don't try to control every aspect of what is happening by brute force, but observe and remain aware patiently and thoughtfully so that you may guide yourself in the direction that is best for you to go.