My progress (not)

Hello everyone! It's me again lol

I'm making this thread cuz I've been struggling with the advice I got from my previous thread, so I'm once again looking for guidance.

I was told to improve my memory skills and put into practice my critical reflective attitude by doing reality checks whenever I encounter something dreamlike. All of that Is pretty straightforward. What I can't get right is the other piece of advice I got which was to imagine I'm in a dream in order to cultivate the feeling of not knowing wheter or not I'm dreaming. Sadly I haven't found a practical way to do this. Any tips?

This is unfortunately one of the things I particularly struggle with myself; although I know what it's like to either be dreaming or be in a trance/visualisation, trying to simply imagine it in some way never feels the same and isn't something that really seems to work for me.

If your life's schedule would allow for it, I can think that going about it through visualisation might help if you want to go into it deeply, because it allows for a dreamlike state while technically being awake anyway. Although I haven't used visualisation for it, you could probably use such a state to practise many dream-related things.

Apart from that, I'm just about as much in the dark as you with regards to being practical about "cultivating" that feeling.

It can be tricky at first. I find the best way is to keep an open-mind and remember that the dream will feel completely real when you’re experiencing it so you could actually be dreaming right now, no matter how convinced you are. Feel that childlike excitement at the idea that maybe, just maybe none of this is actually real. It gets easier to believe the more lucid dreams you have as you learn just how easily you can be fooled and how magical it is to realise and become lucid.

It's just a little hack to help boost critical reflective attitude and make your reality checks more mindful. That's all it is. It's not the most important aspect of learning how to lucid dream. You can certainly learn to lucid dream without it.

What I'm trying to do is help you build reflective attitude while reality checking. Really feeling it is the key. Start with imagining the excitement you would feel if you found out you're dreaming, and now you're becoming lucid. Can you feel that excitement? That's all this is. If you can feel it, just focus on it... The idea is to almost trick your brain into thinking you might actually be dreaming. The other thing this does is to set the intention to become lucid in your brain and build emotional energy.

Don't get hung up on this one trick if you can't do it. I'm sure, like everything else, this technique works better for some people than others. That's OK. Do what works for you. I'm just here to share my knowledge because it's worked for me.

Alright so I want to thank y'all for your advice, it is greatly appreciated!

I have decided I wont be performing this technique, as it feels way too impractical for me. So I'm still trying to find ways to maximise my DILD frequency.

So far I've got:

-memory training
-doing reality checks every time I experience sth dreamlike

Is there any other way I can make my reality checks mindful? What other techniques or methods would y'all recommend for achieving DILDs?

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

Alright so I want to thank y'all for your advice, it is greatly appreciated!

I have decided I wont be performing this technique, as it feels way too impractical for me. So I'm still trying to find ways to maximise my DILD frequency.

So far I've got:

-memory training
-doing reality checks every time I experience sth dreamlike

Is there any other way I can make my reality checks mindful? What other techniques or methods would y'all recommend for achieving DILDs?

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There are a lot of techniques you can do for memory building that specifically aid lucid dreaming. My favorite is where you select certain reality check triggers beforehand and attempt to RC every time you see/hear/feel/etc the trigger. This builds prospective memory - a very useful type of memory for lucid dreaming. The difference between this activity and building critical reflective attitude is that CRA uses dreamlike/weird events in reality, which can have an unpredictable frequency. You'd be lucky to have 1 a day, generally speaking. This, however, is intended to give you many opportunities to RC every day, with the downside that the triggers are not particularly dreamlike or weird. It's not for CRA as much.

To do this, I usually use a background image for my computer that I've created. On it are 4 reality check triggers, which I vary to include one based on sight, one on sound, one on a kinesthetic action, and one passive kinesthetic experience. That way you're working on becoming more aware of your senses, what's going on around you, your actions, etc., as well. I will use the same set of triggers until I've had some success with it, then I rotate to a new set. If you realize you are missing the triggers when they happen, don't rotate. Continue with that same set until you've got a 75% ish success rate. Then switch it up. The background image is there to help me remember what my RC triggers are; it's an aid. If you have no problem remembering the triggers, you don't have to use the background images. I happen to find them helpful.

Here. It's in this thread - this what I use. In this thread, if you scroll down, you can find background images with sets of RC triggers, as well as a color-coded master list. Feel free to use if you like.

https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...k-prompts.html

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Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

There are a lot of techniques you can do for memory building that specifically aid lucid dreaming. My favorite is where you select certain reality check triggers beforehand and attempt to RC every time you see/hear/feel/etc the trigger. This builds prospective memory - a very useful type of memory for lucid dreaming. The difference between this activity and building critical reflective attitude is that CRA uses dreamlike/weird events in reality, which can have an unpredictable frequency. You'd be lucky to have 1 a day, generally speaking. This, however, is intended to give you many opportunities to RC every day, with the downside that the triggers are not particularly dreamlike or weird. It's not for CRA as much.

To do this, I usually use a background image for my computer that I've created. On it are 4 reality check triggers, which I vary to include one based on sight, one on sound, one on a kinesthetic action, and one passive kinesthetic experience. That way you're working on becoming more aware of your senses, what's going on around you, your actions, etc., as well. I will use the same set of triggers until I've had some success with it, then I rotate to a new set. If you realize you are missing the triggers when they happen, don't rotate. Continue with that same set until you've got a 75% ish success rate. Then switch it up. The background image is there to help me remember what my RC triggers are; it's an aid. If you have no problem remembering the triggers, you don't have to use the background images. I happen to find them helpful.

Here. It's in this thread - this what I use. In this thread, if you scroll down, you can find background images with sets of RC triggers, as well as a color-coded master list. Feel free to use if you like.

https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...k-prompts.html

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Thanks for sharing! Although I don't think I'll be performing that technique either, why? In the past few days I've been thinking about creating my own approach to attaining lucidity. It's still in the works but so far I've come up with my own little "lucid mindset" which involves frequently questioning reality with a little bit of awareness on top, and a hardcore reality check routine. What do you think?

I hope my approach is enough to induce my first intentional LD. Whenever that happens I'll make sure to post about it on this forum.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

Thanks for sharing! Although I don't think I'll be performing that technique either, why? In the past few days I've been thinking about creating my own approach to attaining lucidity. It's still in the works but so far I've come up with my own little "lucid mindset" which involves frequently questioning reality with a little bit of awareness on top, and a hardcore reality check routine. What do you think?

I hope my approach is enough to induce my first intentional LD. Whenever that happens I'll make sure to post about it on this forum.

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Whatever floats your boat. Just so you're aware, most of the things that I posted as advice are not coming from me - they come from either Stephen Laberge's book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, or Robert Waggoner's books (Lucid Dreaming Plain & Simple; Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self).

What do I think? You didn't really go into detail, but it seems like it's another version of critical reflective attitude ("lucid mindset"), all day awareness (awareness on top), and reality checking. I'm not sure what's different or new about it?

Good luck.

So guys, lately I've been trying to find a way to question reality. What I've done so far is tell myself "I could be dreaming" at random intervals before doing a reality check. The problem is, I can't seem to doubt the fact that I'm awake.

I know it takes time to build this kind of mindset. I just wanna know if I'm on the right path or if there's a way I can accelerate the process so I can get to question reality without my mind automatically going "nah, you're awake". Does that make sense?

Just because we physically wake up from a dream doesn't necessarily mean that we have realized that we have woken up from a dream. In a way, physically waking up from a dream and mentally waking up from a dream are different concepts. But, we don't necessarily have to physically wake up from a dream before mentally waking up from a dream. I've had dreams where I've become lucid due to non-lucidly thinking about why I haven't woken up from the dream yet. I mentally woke up from these dreams before physically waking up from them. This is because I anticipated waking up from these dreams. Maybe a way to motivate ourselves to anticipate waking up from a dream is to try to do a reality check as soon as possible after waking up from a dream. It would be practice for awareness and memory and if we could realize more quickly that we have woken up from a dream, then it would make DEILD easier, opening up another possible way to become lucid.

Sorry if I seem annoying but I really hope y'all's advice will finally get me going with my LD practice.

Lately I've been thinking about which method I should apply to attain lucidity. I've concluded that adopting a "lucid mindset" is the way to go for DILDs. This mindset consists of frequently questioning reality and doing reality checks. The problem is, I can't seem to question anything around me at all. It's like I'm always sure of the fact that I'm awake and so my reality checks become useless.

So my question goes: how do I question reality effectively?

Merging to the other thread.
~Humbledremaer.
DV Mod.
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How are you performing your reality Checks? I think you may want to develop a more detective mindset. Of course, that takes practice.

Spoiler for REALITY TEST:

1) Using one's dream journal compile a list of "dream signs", a dream sign is any theme that regularly occurs in one's dreams.

2) During one's waking hours regularly perform your chosen reality check whenever something unusual, unexpected, or dreamlike occurs. Be especially vigilant to perform a reality check whenever a waking event closely resembles one of your dream signs. Regularity and consistency are absolutely key, you are attempting to develop a new default lifestyle behavior. When you think about lucid dreaming, Reality check as soon you think about it.

3) Be certain to perform each test seriously and with full critical awareness—do not simply assume that you are awake. Do not allow yourself to perform a test on "auto pilot", it is vital that you perform each reality check with a critical mind and full lucid awareness.


4) Perform a minimum of 10 reality checks each day, ideally many more. Reality testing should become a natural default behavior, performed daily, for the duration of your life as a lucid dreamer.

5) As dreams closely mimic our waking life events and thought patterns, the idea is that developing the habit of regularly reality checking during one's waking life will eventually transfer into the dream world, at which point it will instigate a Dream Initiated Lucid Dream (DILD).

Hints & Tips:
Reality checks are as much a state of mind as they are a test. There is no point in performing a test if one's mind is not fully engaged in the process and is open to the strong possibility that one is dreaming.


Ideally one should perform multiple different tests during each reality check. This allows for a fail-safe should one of the tests provide false results. Two reliable tests to combine are the Nose Pinch Test and the Text Test.


Rather than enter a reality check with the assumption that one is awake, reverse this concept, assume that the very act of performing a reality check implies that one is most likely dreaming. The burden of proof should be on proving that you are awake. This way, should a test give false results, you will assume that you are dreaming rather than awake.


Reality checks are not optional, without them you will miss potentially thousands of possible lucid dreams. They are an act that reflects the core philosophy of lucid dreaming.


Reality checks are primarily used to induce Dream Initiated Lucid Dreams (DILD) but can be used to stabilize, build confidence, or confirm one's state during a Wake Initiated Lucid Dream (WILD).

Reality Check or test RIGHT NOW!!!

How familiar are you with your own dreams? Have you recalled a good amount and got a feel for how your dreams behave and play out? This is important because when you become more familiar with what your dreams look like you can better recognise when you’re having one. The more dream signs and recurring themes you can identify the more trained your detective mind will be at spotting dreamlike subtleties in dreams and waking life to RC to.

When you do an RC ignore that voice that says “nah, I’m awake” it’s not evidence. Look around and reflect on your current situation and like a detective, gather evidence that identifies it is or isn’t a dream. It doesn’t have to be something obvious like a Dinosaur is in your kitchen, it can be as subtle as your coffee mug isn’t where you thought you’d left it, or you can’t quite remember what you were just doing. Those are dream signs. If it’s not enough to convince you you might be dreaming, reflect on the situation further to see if you can find more evidence. Then do the check itself at the end to confirm. (The tutorial linked above sums it up nicely).

It is tricky to convince yourself, you just have to be at least open to the possibility this may actually be a dream. Like I said before, it gets easier the more lucid dreams you have because you learn just how easily you can be fooled.

Are you familiar with the MILD technique? This is arguably the best lucid dreaming technique to learn and goes hand in hand with RCs and may help you greatly.

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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

How familiar are you with your own dreams? Have you recalled a good amount and got a feel for how your dreams behave and play out? This is important because when you become more familiar with what your dreams look like you can better recognise when you’re having one. The more dream signs and recurring themes you can identify the more trained your detective mind will be at spotting dreamlike subtleties in dreams and waking life to RC to.

When you do an RC ignore that voice that says “nah, I’m awake” it’s not evidence. Look around and reflect on your current situation and like a detective, gather evidence that identifies it is or isn’t a dream. It doesn’t have to be something obvious like a Dinosaur is in your kitchen, it can be as subtle as your coffee mug isn’t where you thought you’d left it, or you can’t quite remember what you were just doing. Those are dream signs. If it’s not enough to convince you you might be dreaming, reflect on the situation further to see if you can find more evidence. Then do the check itself at the end to confirm. (The tutorial linked above sums it up nicely).

It is tricky to convince yourself, you just have to be at least open to the possibility this may actually be a dream. Like I said before, it gets easier the more lucid dreams you have because you learn just how easily you can be fooled.

Are you familiar with the MILD technique? This is arguably the best lucid dreaming technique to learn and goes hand in hand with RCs and may help you greatly.

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This is the problem, I can't tap into critical awareness. It's like I can't get out of "auto-pilot" mode and enter "detective" mode. idk if there's a solution to this, but I thought that perhaps faking criticality will over a period of time lead me to being genuinely critical/lucid/observant.

About MILD: tried it, didn't work.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

This is the problem, I can't tap into critical awareness. It's like I can't get out of "auto-pilot" mode and enter "detective" mode. idk if there's a solution to this, but I thought that perhaps faking criticality will over a period of time lead me to being genuinely critical/lucid/observant.

About MILD: tried it, didn't work.

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You are your own obstacle here. You need to open your mind to that fact that right now, this very moment while you read this post, you could be dreaming. I could be a dream character right now. Whose to say I'm not? Let go of your assumptions. Start thinking, maybe I could be wrong. It's a sort of humility - develop this humility. It is very helpful to have the experience happen to you in a dream, because you realize just how silly and stupid we humans can be. We are absolutely certain we are awake, and are completely dumbfounded when we find out we're actually dreaming. The experience is unforgettable, and teaches a very strong lesson: you really don't know. You really don't.

I still stand by the idea that "feeling" your way through a reality check can really help boost mindfulness. Obviously, you've stated that's not something you're able to do, but *feeling with thinking is so much more potent than thinking alone because it bypasses the ego's defensive excuses as to why this is not a dream. Should you reality check, and just for a moment you do feel a little scared or nervous - then you've done it right.

I hesitate to offer this tip. However, if nothing else works, one thing that can help is to drink a beer or a glass of wine. I'm not talking getting drunk. And obviously, only if you're of legal age. A slight buzz during the evening can get one out of the "left-brained" mentality that blocks us from truly questioning reality. It can make it easier to feel what a truly mindful reality check is like. Then, hopefully, you'll be more open minded during future reality checks. It can also be a good idea to take a little walk during this time, focus on your senses, and reality check often (especially double-reading street signs). Pretend it is actually a dream world. Pretend you're walking through a lucid dream.

You dismiss MILD as not working for you. How long did you try it for? Many techniques take multiple attempts before success happens. Also, you may need to tinker and alter techniques to find exactly how it can work with your own mind and body. Additionally, it may not work for you right now because of a lack of foundational skills (critical reflective attitude, prospective memory, etc.). Build those skills and it just may work for you.

Have you invested in books about critical thinking? I'm sure there are helpful hints there. It's a skill that you can not be lazy on as a lucid dreamer. No one said that lucid dreaming is easy. Also important is resilience!! It is an underrated thing in lucid dreaming because you really need to do that when things go wrong. For most people that are starting out, it isn't easy... Even if you are an experienced lucid dreamer, you can run into problems. Get back up and dust yourself off and try again.
EXPERIMENTATION- This subject is very much a young subject that we don't know much about. Sleep research is very limited and lucid dreaming research is even more limited. So you need to be willing to do new things. But, you probably want to put in the work. Also, note that what works for me may not work for you.
Also, How well do you know your own sleep cycle? Maybe know your learning style. Perhaps you may want to start from there and record what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

This is the problem, I can't tap into critical awareness. It's like I can't get out of "auto-pilot" mode and enter "detective" mode. idk if there's a solution to this, but I thought that perhaps faking criticality will over a period of time lead me to being genuinely critical/lucid/observant.

About MILD: tried it, didn't work.

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When you get that trigger to question reality, stop everything. Stop what you’re doing, stop what you’re thinking about and bring yourself fully into the present moment, into the NOW, almost like you’re stepping back from reality, choosing no longer to participate in it but to observe it instead. Now you’re detached and aware, start observing reality as it is in real time and examine your situation and look for clues that you could be dreaming. Don’t dismiss it quickly, linger in the NOW for a short time and look upon reality like it could actually be a dream. That’s the best way I can sum up the “feeling” of getting into that reality check mindset.

Like Moon said, MILD Is something you attempt every night consistently without fail and for a while it may not work, then one day it does work, then it may not work again for another week but if you keep going it eventually starts working more and more consistently as you become more experienced and build your skills. Reality checks are a good thing to do but they’re so much more effective if you’re waking in the night and performing MILD alongside them. Like Moon said, you have to find a way to make MILD work for you. Though visualisation is a key element in LaBerges original technique, I usually need to skip this part during the night as it keeps me awake. Instead I try to fall back asleep with a readiness, an anticipation to remember and recognise I’m dreaming in the next few minutes. It’s just a matter of engaging your prospective memory. Most of my lucids occur after waking and doing this method.

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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik

When you get that trigger to question reality, stop everything. Stop what you’re doing, stop what you’re thinking about and bring yourself fully into the present moment, into the NOW, almost like you’re stepping back from reality, choosing no longer to participate in it but to observe it instead. Now you’re detached and aware, start observing reality as it is in real time and examine your situation and look for clues that you could be dreaming. Don’t dismiss it quickly, linger in the NOW for a short time and look upon reality like it could actually be a dream. That’s the best way I can sum up the “feeling” of getting into that reality check mindset.

Like Moon said, MILD Is something you attempt every night consistently without fail and for a while it may not work, then one day it does work, then it may not work again for another week but if you keep going it eventually starts working more and more consistently as you become more experienced and build your skills. Reality checks are a good thing to do but they’re so much more effective if you’re waking in the night and performing MILD alongside them. Like Moon said, you have to find a way to make MILD work for you. Though visualisation is a key element in LaBerges original technique, I usually need to skip this part during the night as it keeps me awake. Instead I try to fall back asleep with a readiness, an anticipation to remember and recognise I’m dreaming in the next few minutes. It’s just a matter of engaging your prospective memory. Most of my lucids occur after waking and doing this method.

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I'm not a Zen master, I can't just stop thinking and become detached from reality on command. I was thinking that instead of becoming aware of the present moment I could try to frequently ask several critical questions such as "What was I doing just now?". If so, what other questions should I ask myself?

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

I'm not a Zen master, I can't just stop thinking and become detached from reality on command. I was thinking that instead of becoming aware of the present moment I could try to frequently ask several critical questions such as "What was I doing just now?". If so, what other questions should I ask myself?

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You don’t have to be a zen master to be able to become aware and lucid in dreams, I’m certainly not! What I described above is just how it feels but to become aware of your present moment you only really need to stop what you’re doing and bring your full attention to your surroundings and observe them, you’re then viewing the world in the present moment. It’s a little trickier to do when you’re at work or watching TV as your mind is heavily distracted, so it can take a bit of willpower to pull yourself away and become fully aware, but it gets easier with practice. In a dream you’ll be heavily distracted by an engaging dream plot so you have to be able to pull yourself out of auto-pilot to become aware that you’re actually dreaming.

Asking yourself what you were just doing is a good question to ask, so is where am I right now, why am I here, does this all make sense? You have to be mindful as you ask these questions though or you may answer them and still not realise you’re in a dream.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

I'm not a Zen master, I can't just stop thinking and become detached from reality on command.

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As Tiktaalik said above, it's not about being a Zen master; it's really more about letting go of your focus on whatever you're doing, to give room for asking those very same critical questions. I sometimes handle it not by completely stopping what I'm doing but by paying close attention to a few things, such as what I'm thinking, paying attention to what's around me, or to what has changed/hasn't changed in the last few moments, and to how/if the environment changes with my thoughts.

The point of giving room for those questions, even if you're not fully interrupting what you're doing, is to consider them in full, even for just a moment, because if you don't then you will likely struggle to override the same automatic behaviour in dreams.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

I'm not a Zen master, I can't just stop thinking and become detached from reality on command. I was thinking that instead of becoming aware of the present moment I could try to frequently ask several critical questions such as "What was I doing just now?". If so, what other questions should I ask myself?

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"What was I doing a minute ago?"

"How did I get here?"

"Does anything around me look odd or strange right now?" (then look)

Aight y'all, I've considered all of your advice and I think I can finally get going with my practice. So far I'll be going with periodically stopping what I'm doing to become aware of my surroundings (the mindfulness part) and look for clues that I'm dreaming while asking critical questions (the reflection part). Is this a good interpretation?

Yes WildWolf1, that seems fine. Just remember to be patient and to take it lightly too, putting in a lot of effort does not necessarily return an equal amount of reward, if that makes sense. Taking things easy also helps with reducing any frustrations or specific obstacles that may come up, too. :)

It will also help if Practice regularly, but not doggedly. Do not set a deadline and be patient instead. The first lucid dream will definitely come! :D

Also, remember to set the intention to do the check before you fall asleep, as if you’re setting a mental alarm clock that will go off during the dream. Good luck.

Okay so first I want to thank y'all for your continued support. Now I'm tuning into this thread again to look for some additional tips on effectively examining my state, since I thought I had everything in place, but now that I've tried the method y'all told me about new questions have arised.

I wanna ask: What does it mean to reflect on my current situation? Is asking critical questions a way to reflect? What other ways are there?

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

I wanna ask: What does it mean to reflect on my current situation? Is asking critical questions a way to reflect? What other ways are there?

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Asking critical questions is it, basically.

For example, I just woke up from a non-lucid dream where I was not in my own body and in a situation that felt "odd", so I started thinking "Wait, am I really myself?" and proceeded to start reality checking. My RC'ing was interrupted by another dream character, because even in waking life I have the "weakness" of being very self-conscious about reality checking in front of/around others, so while I did everything "correctly" in a sense, there was a non-conscious drive (self-consciousness) and an expected distraction (someone being around when I happen to want to RC) which still got me to lose track of what I actually should have wanted to do in that moment, and so I did not proceed to ask myself more questions or try to will things differently to check reality in such a way too.

This is why the critical questions and the feelings accompanying them ("wait, am I REALLY?") are important, because reality checks alone are fallible. The first RC I did manage in that moment was accurate to waking life logic and not to dream logic, so that was part of why the rest of the distractions and lack of further critical questions got to me.

And to "reflect on situation" is about things like this example above, too.

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Originally Posted by WildWolf1

Okay so first I want to thank y'all for your continued support. Now I'm tuning into this thread again to look for some additional tips on effectively examining my state, since I thought I had everything in place, but now that I've tried the method y'all told me about new questions have arised.

I wanna ask: What does it mean to reflect on my current situation? Is asking critical questions a way to reflect? What other ways are there?

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When I RC in waking life, I always stop and look around (do a full 360), trying to find things that are out of place, odd, etc. I ask myself "Does anything here look like a dream?" and also "What was I doing a few minutes ago?"

So then last night when I was dreaming, I noticed things were out of place and I remembered that what I was doing a few minutes ago was falling asleep. That lead to 2 lucid dreams. Important to mention WBTB was used, which is a huge huge huge help.

Any questions along those lines, combined with using your senses, is pretty much what is meant by reflecting on your current situation. "How did I get here??" is another good one.

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Originally Posted by DarkestDarkness

My RC'ing was interrupted by another dream character, because even in waking life I have the "weakness" of being very self-conscious about reality checking in front of/around others,

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:laughtillhurts: I used to be like that, but not anymore. I am still discreet at work (I pretend I'm looking at my nails, when I'm really counting my fingers), but not around anyone else. Honestly, I would be proud if someone realized and knew what I was doing. :)