WILD technique - sleeplessness, empty space?

For the last week or two I've been trying wake back to bed.

Then having difficulties getting to sleep.

So I've been experimenting with WILD.

When HI starts, as soon as I pay attention to it, I become more awake.

I get sleep paralysis, vibrations, even occasional sounds, but after an hour or more, still can't cross over into sleep.

Any suggestions for crossing the line into sleeping?

One time I felt I had gotten closer, I lost all sense of my body, and it was like I was in a completely empty space. It reminded me of some lucid dreams where I feel the dream content has faded away. In those dreams I spin.

So in this blank space I tried spinning. But I had no sense of any body to spin. I felt relaxed but with no body and no images, i got frustrated and became more awake and back in my bed.

Anyone have experience dealing with empty space during WILD?

I had a problem like that last night. I was trying to do a WILD i got the paralysisand a very small amount of vibrations. But thats it, i think my body was asleep cause after 2 hours when i gave up it took a few seconds b4 i could move my body correctly ( just that was a interesting experenice. )

But i didnt get any images ect or sound. I wasnt that tired could that of been why?. Hopfully someone reading this will be able to help. I think my problem is kinder the same as your's " Author "

I managed one time, but I found that there was a lapse in conciousness. I suddenly realised that I had been standing outside of my room for the last five minutes. ^_^

Therefore, I can't really help you, I'm afraid...

i know just what you mean.

i've been on the 'vibrational threshold' more times than i can count, and often felt disembodied, floating in blackness, but unable to pass into a dream.

the one time i had a successful WILD, it was by allowing the HI to lead me into the dream. actually, at the time, i wasn't even trying to focus on the imagery too intensely, just barely noticing it. after awhile, i suddenly realized it had morphed into a restaurant scene, and i was sitting at a stool, and i was on my way :)

its a very thin line between concentrating too much, and not concentrating enough. if you try to 'hold onto' the hypnagogic images, or focus on producing or noticing them, you will simply get more and more frustrated, and eventually become fully awake.

if you don't note them enough, you'll simply fall asleep unconsciously.

i find it important that my one successful WILD was on in why i wasn't trying
to focus on the HI, i just allowed them to happen, and barely noticed them.

from "exploring the world of lucid dreaming" (speaking of using HI to enter a LD):

"while delicately observing the mind, lead it gently into the dream state, as though you were leading a child by the hand"

i think even this allows for too much concious effort . perhaps one should not even attempt to lead..but follow instead.

again, it is a very thin line, but it defintely sounds like you are trying too hard, as i did. i've probably had about 40-50 times where i tried too hard, and just woke myself up eventually.
the one time i succeeded, i wasn't really 'trying' at all.

hope this helps.

When you become disembodied start focusing on how your body feels (the air temp etc)
this happened to me once and i did this

Oh, how I envy you. I'm just turning green with envy, heh.
You can keep your concentration for over an hour...I bow to you.

In recent attempts at concentration training I've realized that my concentration threshold is 15 seconds. :(

Hope I'm not off topic but can anyone recommend any concentration training besides the different meditation-type exercises, such as focusing on one's breathing and so on?
This being rather important to me in order to pursue WILD.

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Originally posted by Asclepius
One time I felt I had gotten closer, I lost all sense of my body, and it was like I was in a completely empty space. It reminded me of some lucid dreams where I feel the dream content has faded away. In those dreams I spin

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I've had this happen twice -- although I'm not sure mine really count as WILD, since I never went through the vibrations or HI stages. Check out this post for the full story, but basically I just relaxed and waited for a dream scene to appear.

Asher, thanks for the info, I think im goign to try to WILD tonight, hopefully I will be successful

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Originally posted by Asher
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i just allowed them to happen, and barely noticed them.

*from \"exploring the world of lucid dreaming\" (speaking of using HI to enter a LD):

*\"while delicately observing the mind, lead it gently into the dream state, as though you were leading a child by the hand\"

*again, it is a very thin line, but it defintely sounds like you are trying too hard, as i did. i've probably had about 40-50 times where i tried too hard, and just woke myself up eventually.
*the one time i succeeded, i wasn't really 'trying' at all.

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Thanks for the suggestion Asher, I think finding the right balance is key. So far I haven't found a way to sneak up on the imagery. Usually I focus on it and then awaken to much.

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Originally posted by BillyBob_001+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BillyBob_001)</div>

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*When you become disembodied start focusing on how your body feels (the air temp etc) *this happened to me once and i did this [/b]

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I will try to be more observant, but I really did not have any body awareness at all. I think I should have been more patient.

<!--QuoteBegin-Merlock
Oh, how I envy you. I'm just turning green with envy, heh.
You can keep your concentration for over an hour...I bow to you.

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Its kind of like a form of insomnia so don't envy it too much! I've been meditating for a long time so I can get my body pretty relaxed. However calming the mind is still a big challenge. I try to go with the flow, and do different counting exercises. But finding the balance with the HI imagery seems to be key to transition to LD. Merlock you might want to try the 61 points exercise. Its pretty good for both relaxing the body and developing concentration.

Last night I had another 60 minute unsuccesful attempt. HI was a little clearer, but still couldn't cross the dreaming line.

I hope I have some success this week while I'm on holiday, I find the attempts to WILD are screwing up my sleep patterns, and when I have to work, I'm going to avoid this technique.

Yep I've had this problem too. I lose sense of the placement of my body, I get a strange etheric tingle - mostly in my arms -, i get the sounds of sleep paralysis but never full paralysis and by then the ordeal has lasted a good thirty minutes or more and i realize I'm missing out on sleep :lol: But seriously, I know what you mean. I'm pretty sure the advice not to pay attention so much to the HI is good, as that will distract you. I'm going to try WILD tonight, with all the hypnagogic stuffage but instead of focusing on that, I will tell myself that 1) I'm having a lucid tonight whether I like it or not, and 2) that I can freely walk into my other existence with no trouble. I think stressing about LDing is the no.1 killer of LDs. You kinda have to relax into a lucid and agree with it, just let it happen.

Tried a few more times to WILD over holidays. Several times got close with good HI, but couldn't cross over to dream.

First day back at work, I realize can't WILD cause I need to get enough sleep. Revert back to WBTB and MILD and success!

WBTB and MILD have worked for me 5 times in 2 months, so I'm going to stick with that approach. Wish it would work every night, but at least I know that it does work, and doesn't cost me a lot of lost sleep.

I either WILDed or dreamt I did, but I think I'll try again tonght lol