What is FILD really? [BUSTED]

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Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

This makes the most sense of ANYTHING i've read on this forum so far.
Well done for being a lucid balanced individual.

As i'm new and am not here to make friends or prove anything,
I'll say things exactly as i see them.

The problem here is not which method works, it's that certain individuals in this forum have come up with thier own "new" methods and are in competition with each other.

Most of the arguing here is more about ego and people trying to prove they are "the one with the best method" rather than actually educate and share information wisely.

If you don't agree with me, just read the title of this thread. The childish nature and the assumption that there is anything to be "busted" proves the point. Is this a competition? No. It's a group of people trying to learn how to lucid dream in the most successful way for themselves.

Personally i don't take methods posted in forums all that seriously. I'd far rather go for well documented, scientifically researched methods that have been published by respected members of the lucid dream community.
Those being the methods of people like S LaBerge, K Hearne, D Love, C Green etc.

The whole idea of coming up with "new" methods as a way to get a badge of honour in a forum seems a little pointless and reminds me more of schoolyard behaviour than legitimate research and wanting to improve the field as a whole.

I myself will be sticking with WBTB, MILD, CAT and the other well researched methods and then trying variations on these using my own intelligence. The difference between these 3 methods is that they all have a unique concept behind them. Most methods here (like DEILD, FILD etc.) seem to be hybrids or variations on these already established methods.

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I think you're seeing things completely wrong. No one is claiming their methods to be completely unique. The methods are not in competition with each other, there are just so many variations that the people here are trying to simplify as much as they can.

I see none of the arguing and boasting of which you speak. I don't think people care as much as you think they do. People ARE educating and sharing information wisely. If someone is proud of a variation of a method they developed, that is because they feel it is more effective and refined than what is already available. It is in no way an ego, and a natural human emotion towards something that one helped to develop.

This thread is in no way supporting your idea. It seems you never even read the thread, and are just going by the title. The idea of this thread is to see if the differences between DEILD and FILD are large enough to deserve two separate techniques when categorizing them. This topic has absolutely no ego, and intelligent discussion is plentiful. The term "busted" is used because it is a one-word, easily recognizable phrase that can be used to effectively summarize the contents of this thread so that a person skimming through the thread list may have an idea as to the discussion within without having to open it. You seem to be so pessimistic in that you try to find the fault in that which has little.

People are in no way coming up with methods in order to get a badge of honor. It is all in the attempt to further the lucid dreaming goal: being able to have lucid dreams at will. These methods are more refined than their vague "legitimate" counterparts, and their detailed and complete attitudes allow people to grasp them more easily. Just because they are hybrids or variations does not make them inferior, which is the mindset you seem to have.

You can stick with the most well known methods if you wish, but to ignore the hands-on experience of hundreds of people will just hurt you in the long run. Experiments do not have to be done in a laboratory to be successful. The lucid dreaming community is building off each other in order to reach their goals, and the tests and information shared is just as effective and important as someone in a lab coat. We may not be able to discover the science behind why methods work, but the experiences are equally important. If you don't want to contribute, fine, but do not blindly dismiss our research and goals as childish and pointless.

I'm not blinddly dismissing research and goals.
I do think however that any research whether in a Lab or in the home, needs to have strict criteria, be repeatable, not fall apart under scrutiny, and be accountable.

I also think that developing new terminology, for the sake of it, can be counterproductive and also confuse people new to the subject. Terminology should only be invented if it truely helps keep things simple.

I'm not being negative,
I'm new to this forum, and with 40 years of life behind me, 30 of which have been fascinated by lucid dreaming. I see a lot of things here that i think are more to do with forum-culture than genuinely trying to research and improve the subject.

I'll try and word things to come across less negatively, but sometimes you do just need to be blunt. Of course i may be completely wrong, but im just expressing my first impressions.

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

Were you going to sleep, or were you just waking up? Because what you described sounded much a DEILD to me.

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as DuB said, FILD is a kind of DEILD, but it was a FILD. :D

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

Have you done this?

Our research showed that that doesn't work. Sleep paralysis won't come if you are twitching. The ones who tried it know how to get to sleep paralysis and do it often, but it wouldn't come while twitching fingers except for DEILDs, in which case they were already in partial paralysis.

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Kinda reviving dead thread but want to share my experience. I've successfully FILDed today after number of tryings before, and the main idea is that you should not really twitch fingers. It is more like you make a feeling of twitching, not actual twitching. It is somewhat similar to imagining of spinning lying at the bed. You do not really spin, you try to recreate this feeling. Here is the same - twitching should occur mostly in mind. And yes - there was no SP or it was very short. Transition was very smooth - I felt a soft wave of vibrations and thought that maybe it means I am in dream. I'd "twitched" little more and then made an RC - and it was dream.

Phantasos, thanks for this.. maybe I can actually get FILD to work for me now that I've read your experience. :)

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

Yeah, if you are really tired (like just woken up for a DEILD) you are probably already in partial paralysis and that's the only time twitching does anything.

:? More study is needed.

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I would like to clear up just a little bit. I have not tried FILD's before, but I have had two successful DEILD's and a few very low key lucids ( so fuzzy I couldn't do the watch RC to stabilize because it was too blurry to read the watch. The watch RC is my favorite ). I find that when I wake up for a DEILD, I am not in sleep paralysis. I find myself on my back most of the time, and roll over on to my stomach. I then just imagine myself going back to the dream, and tell myself I will be there when I start to dream. My resolution and confidence seems to help a lot. I know I rambled a little bit, but my point was that I don't experience SP when I wake up for a DEILD.

ive always thought FILD was just DEILD with a little added, but i heard that the muscles you move in a FILD stimulates a certain part of the brain which helps a lot. but yea it should definetly be put under DEILD.

FILD's only take 20 seconds I thought.

I disagree with most of the posters here I'm sorry to say. In my experience FILD is not like a DEILD at all. When I FILD and enter a dream the dream world is exactly like my bed room to start off, there is no difference between the reality and the dream until I perform a RC. So what I'm saying is that for me, that FILDS put me into a dream but not one that I have had before. THerefore they are not like DEILDs.

Now of course this is just my experience I have very little knowledge of the technical definitions of the techniques

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Originally Posted by Echoes

I disagree with most of the posters here I'm sorry to say. In my experience FILD is not like a DEILD at all. When I FILD and enter a dream the dream world is exactly like my bed room to start off, there is no difference between the reality and the dream until I perform a RC. So what I'm saying is that for me, that FILDS put me into a dream but not one that I have had before. THerefore they are not like DEILDs.

Now of course this is just my experience I have very little knowledge of the technical definitions of the techniques

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Exactly. I am confused with what they are saying because when you wake up, you don't focus on your dream and it starts off as a FA. I couldn't try it last night. Trying again tonight.

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Originally Posted by Echoes

I disagree with most of the posters here I'm sorry to say. In my experience FILD is not like a DEILD at all. When I FILD and enter a dream the dream world is exactly like my bed room to start off, there is no difference between the reality and the dream until I perform a RC. So what I'm saying is that for me, that FILDS put me into a dream but not one that I have had before. THerefore they are not like DEILDs.

Now of course this is just my experience I have very little knowledge of the technical definitions of the techniques

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When you DEILD, aren't you supposed to be visualizing the dream you just ended or one you want to enter (at least that's how I do mine)? And when you FILD, aren't you visualizing a dream of you laying in your bed twitching your fingers? So really, doesn't it just depend on what you focus your attention on?

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Originally Posted by Shift

When you DEILD, aren't you supposed to be visualizing the dream you just ended or one you want to enter (at least that's how I do mine)? And when you FILD, aren't you visualizing a dream of you laying in your bed twitching your fingers? So really, doesn't it just depend on what you focus your attention on?

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Well, after a bit more experimenting I found that FILD is not DEILD at all. At first, using it immediately after dream and not moving will help but is not obligatory. Today I actually went to make some dark night deeds and decided to try it nevertheless. I tried one time (twitched about half or full minute), then another, and it worked at the second time. Wave of vibrations ran through my body, and I knew I am in dream (but did RC just to be sure).

Second about imagining of twitching fingers. I also thought it was the case but now I see you indeed should twitch fingers but only by flexing muscules a bit, and you should not think or imagine anything just lay still and twitch your fingers a little little bit by small flexing of fingers.

Another key point is not to be excited about it. Just think that it no difference will it work or will not - you win anyway (you get your LD or go to sleep which is also good).

It is possible to try it few times in a row: failed first time, stay still for a minute or two, then try another.