Want to participate in a new technique experiment?

This was a preliminary experiment. The full experiment is underway here



I'm working on a new technique and need some help. The technique was pioneered by the guy at saltcube, however I don't think he did it right and with some adjustments I believe that it could be used to induce lucid dreams almost regularly, even for those who are struggling to get their first.


The technique theory

The technique will work by closing in mind and body in on that transition stage between sleep and awake and allow you to stay at that point and get their easily. Allowing you to either wake up easily, or fall into a WILD easily.

If done correctly, I don't think there should be any sleep paralysis, which makes it a great technique for those freaked out by it.

By doing a rapid fire awake, sleeping, awake, sleeping, over and over again, the mind and body will get ever closer to that transition stage every time that you wake up, making your sleep lighter and you waking time groggier. After a few cycles, you should be able to slip directly from the waking state into a dream without sleep paralysis.

The waking and sleeping acts sort of like a regressive sine wave in math. In this graph, say that the zero line is the transition place between sleeping and being awake.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4...1220708lk9.png
Here the first time you awake you come from deep sleep and wake up a lot, but the next time the difference is less, and it slowly moves in on hovering around that transition place, which makes it easy to go back and forth.

It kind of works like a DEILD, except your sleep is so light that there is no jerk and because you were just awake a few minutes ago, your memory of wanting to DEILD is very fresh.


Requirements

A timer: it has to be something that you can either program or be able to reset without moving too much (like a watch.)

or

a computer with Linux or Windows. I'll write a program that will do the appropriate things for you. It'll be a simple program.

or

an MP3 Player that you can either wake up and start, or can program to start playing automatically at a certain time (a computer :P)

A flexible sleep schedule or weekends off. You may loose a little bit of sleep with this technique unless you can sleep in.


Experiment

The timer will go off at your chosen time (whenever you are in REM, about 4:30am) When it goes off, wake up, then go back to sleep, daydreaming as you do. Because you woke up abruptly, you will go from being really asleep to really awake.

16 minutes later the alarm will wake you up again, but because your sleep was lighter, it wasn't such a jolt, so you wake up less. Daydream and go back to sleep. You can roll over or move this time, but not after this.

8 minutes later the alarm will go off again, since you were just woken up 16 minutes before, your sleep was lighter and the shock wasn't as bad, so you are woken up less. Daydream and go back to sleep, move as little as possible, try and keep your body relaxed.

6 minutes later it will go off again. Daydream and go back to sleep, don't move.

4 minutes later it will go off again. This is where you WILD. Your sleep should be so light now that there should be no shock at all and your body should stay right on the transition between awake and SP.

Now you WILD. You should already be in sleep paralysis and because your brain is close to being awake, a very vivid lucid dream should form quickly. You may have a false awakening, but you should easily get into a dream.


Let's have volunteers!

I want people who have had lots of lucid dreams, using various technique and especially people eager to have their first, because I think this will work perfectly to get them their first. Sign up, let me know who you are and what kind of experience you have and I'll write that program as soon as possible.


Feedback
Post your results here every day that you do it. Post whether or not you were able to fall asleep, any hypnogogic hallucinations, feelings the onset of sleep paralysis, if you became lucid before the final interval, and whether or not you managed to lucid dream. :)


Audio File
Audio File - (375 KB)
Audio File for those who have a hard time getting back to sleep - (246 KB)

Set it to go off when you think you will be in REM sleep. For Mac users I know that Alarm Clock 2 (on the apple site) is a great one that will let you play a file from your itunes library at any time.

For Windows users I know that there are alarms out there for you too, anyone know of any?



The zip file attached includes a program for Microsoft Windows (all versions) that all you need to do it run. It will start doing alarms at 4:30 and do them in the appropriate delay without you touching it. I haven't tested it however :?

I'd like to give this a try. The only time I will have a flexible schedule like this will be on weekends, and I can't promise every weekend. I am, however, VERY excited to start having more LDs, I had one 30 second one about two months ago, and I am ready for more.

I will need the program though, my watch and phone will keep the alarm going until the cows come home if I am not around to stop it.

Can this work in the afternoon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Licity

I'd like to give this a try. The only time I will have a flexible schedule like this will be on weekends, and I can't promise every weekend. I am, however, VERY excited to start having more LDs, I had one 30 second one about two months ago, and I am ready for more.

I will need the program though, my watch and phone will keep the alarm going until the cows come home if I am not around to stop it.

---

I'll write the program this weekend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mini0991

Can this work in the afternoon?

---

I doubt it, but you can try. :)

I'll try, keep me posted!

I'll try it over the weekend and tomorrow afternoon.

I also threw together a *very* simple QBASIC/FreeBasic program that will beep it at the indicated times. Since some BASIC dialects operate from the PC speaker, this may or may not be loud enough to wake you. My PC speaker's output gets rerouted through the speakers so I just turn 'em up and boom...shrill beep every minute. I start it up in a DOS box and just leave the speakers on all night...or when the time is set.

If anyone runs this in freebasic, you might have to adjust the SLEEP amounts to milliseconds.

Here it is:

Quote:

---

CLS
PRINT "Timer set to go off at 4:30 AM. ESC to cancel."
DO
a$ = TIME$
b$ = INKEY$
if b$ = CHR$(27) THEN END
if a$ = "04:30:00" then EXIT DO
LOOP
'beeps!
SLEEP 960 '16 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 480 '8 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 360 '6 min
PLAY "A2"
SLEEP 240 '4 min
PLAY "A2"
PRINT "Done."
END

---

Just posted it if it's a help to anyone else. If you know nothing about this, just wait until the good program comes out.

Yeah I could definatly do this. I am on Independant Studies and I am home everrday! I wake up when I want, which is usually around 10:00 a.m

So I would definatly volunteer for that one.

Oh and just to mention, I have only had I believe to be 2 lucids, both being somewhat controllable.

I threw together a quick timer in Visual C++ express 2008.

Spoiler for Code:

#include<fstream>
#include<windows.h>

using namespace std;


int main()
{
int timer1;
char beepvar = 7;
int timercounter = 10;

cout << "Please enter a number of minutes to wait before the first timer beep.\nThe timer will beep again 16 minutes after that, then 8 minutes later, then 6, then 4.\n\n";
cin >> timer1;

timer1 = timer1 * 60;

Sleep(timer1);

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(960);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(480);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(360);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

Sleep(240);
timercounter = 10;

while(timercounter >= 0)
{
cout << beepvar;
timercounter--;
}

system("pause");

return 0;
}

I don't have access to a compiler at the moment, so it will require a basic knowledge of the language to debug, should any errors surface.

The beeping is made by outputting a character with a value of 7, an trick a friend showed my in Visual C++ 2003. May or may not work here.

I might give this a go, if I can get the program to my computer. It certainly sounds reasonable.

I think I can work with this. I have been having a very hard time WILDing lately. A fresh approach might be just what I need to get back in the saddle. I'll probably do the weekend shift.

I was wondering, would it be possible to make an mp3 version of the beeper or timer. It'd be easier for me to do this using my ipod because I don't have a timer that is easily resettable at the moment.

Duh! I don't know why I didn't think of that :P Will make MP3 now, program is on it's way too.

Hm so this is the new technique, I will do it, tough I has done it before as part of my time-training, DILD wake up, re-do until I feel like the dream will be stable then WILD and stay for some days in the dream lol

I want to do this to, granted I'm in the middle of your requirements for volunteers. I would be able to do it on weekend, and it would also be easier for me with an mp3 version of the timer. :D

I added the download to the original post.

Set it to go off when you think you will be in REM sleep. For Mac users I know that Alarm Clock 2 (on the apple site) is a great one that will let you play a file from your itunes library at any time.

For Windows users I know that there are alarms out there for you too, anyone know of any?

I will start experimenting tonight :mrgreen:

ninjy, I can do this on the weekends as well!

Basically are we just setting only "5" alarms (1st wakeup alarm, then 16 min, then 8 min, then 6 min and then 4 min) or do you have the pattern repeat itself over and over? (but then if you had the pattern repeat you would be interrupting your LDs.)

I have a small vibration clock that can be set to vibrate or beep or both and has three vibration levels and you can set up to 12 alarms so I'm good to go!

.

Just the 5 :)

how would you be able to use the alarm without waking the whole house up? :?

I'll give it a shot.

I'm a beginner, I've had about 4 DILDS and only 1 quality one.

I think I should be able to do this every night, but I may have to revert to just weekends. I'll post tonights results (hopefully) tomorrow.

For the MP3 audio file part you can make a timer in your playlist by adding "music" with nothing in it, just silence, then have an alarm sound, silence added again for the ammount of time needed until next wake up.

Cant try the whole idea before next week as my working schedule is fucked upp. But sounds cool and i will most def come back to see how this experiement work and hopefully try it myself.

:banana::banana::banana:

you really don't need a program for this. if you look at my thread where I show a theoretical method that I thought of, I give you the syntax for the AT command to make a sound play at any time you want. The linux alternative to the windows AT is cron for you linux users (if there are even any)

It does work and its called the rhythm napping technique. Are you trying to refine it?

I've got a lot of free time in the mornings, and I can't regularly induce lucids yet. I'll start working on this tonight, and edit my initial results in tomorrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Videogamer 4 Life

how would you be able to use the alarm without waking the whole house up? :?

---

Clairity uses a vibrating watch. You could try and find one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weeedoodle

I'll give it a shot.

I'm a beginner, I've had about 4 DILDS and only 1 quality one.

I think I should be able to do this every night, but I may have to revert to just weekends. I'll post tonights results (hopefully) tomorrow.

---

:thanks:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chef

For the MP3 audio file part you can make a timer in your playlist by adding "music" with nothing in it, just silence, then have an alarm sound, silence added again for the ammount of time needed until next wake up.

Cant try the whole idea before next week as my working schedule is fucked upp. But sounds cool and i will most def come back to see how this experiement work and hopefully try it myself.

:banana::banana::banana:

---

You could have a long blank audio file before it instead of using an alarm to start the file that I posted. Works the same way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaKo

you really don't need a program for this. if you look at my thread where I show a theoretical method that I thought of, I give you the syntax for the AT command to make a sound play at any time you want. The linux alternative to the windows AT is cron for you linux users (if there are even any)

---

You can use any way that you've like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by malac

It does work and its called the rhythm napping technique. Are you trying to refine it?

---

Yes, the saltcube guy's pattern seems counterproductive, and this will work better (I think) I even mention saltcube in the introductory post :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

I've got a lot of free time in the mornings, and I can't regularly induce lucids yet. I'll start working on this tonight, and edit my initial results in tomorrow.

---

:thanks:

Count me in!!! Do we start the sleeping and wkaing cycles when we wake up naturally, or at a specific time? If I don't do it at a specific time, then I will be waking up at 11-12:00 PM ish.

4:30 AM is probably in REM for most people, so I would recommend that time, however you may need to adjust it for yourself.

A little earlier. Thats the time I usually wake up (after taking B6) to record my first dream, and then wake up at &:00 AM to record my next. So 4:00 AM?

Attached the program that I promised for Windows owners. If you would like a program for Mac instead of using the Alarm Clock 2 and M4A then let me know. Same goes with Linux users.

Thanks for the alarm ninja. That will make this a heck of a lot easier to deal when I'm groggy and all thumbs at 5 am.

:goodjob2:

I'll be using it this weekend, starting tonight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Clairity uses a vibrating watch. You could try and find one of them.

---

It's actually a vibrating "clock" not a watch. If you're married (or have to share quarters) and, if you can afford it..(and you think "vibrations" would wake you).. I highly recommend getting an "Invisible Clock".

This small clock can be set to vibrate or beep or both. There are three vibration levels and you can set up to 12 alarms! I often use the vibration setting on the highest level, wrap the small clock in a face towel and simply lay the clock so that it's pressed against my body. The vibration isn't "jarring" and another plus to a vibrating clock is that it doesn't disturb anyone else when it goes off (not even my husband who is laying right next to me)!

Below is one of the websites that sell the Invisible Clock: http://www.buddhasplace.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IC101&Catego ry_Code=Clocks

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clairity

This small clock can be set to vibrate or beep or both. There are three vibration levels and you can set up to 12 alarms! I often use the vibration setting on the highest level, wrap the small clock in a face towel and simply lay the clock so that it's pressed against my body. The vibration isn't "jarring" and another plus to a vibrating clock is that it doesn't disturb anyone else when it goes off (not even my husband who is laying right next to me)!

---

Clairity... Do you just copy/paste that block of text every time the Invisible Clock shows up? It sounds really familiar...:lol:
Nice timesaver!

Well, I haven't specfically tried it. But let me tell you, it has the potential to work.

I took an (accidental) three and a half hour nap beginning at six last night. I had somewhat good recall with that nap dream. I then went to bed at about 12:45 AM and fell asleep about either 1 or 1:25 AM.

Throughout the night, because I got so much sleep already, i had trouble falling asleep. My sleep so far (it's currently 3 AM in PA) has been extremely light, characterized by many possible false awakenings and going in-and-out of many dreams. I hope you understand what I mean. It's probably happened to all of you maybe a few times a year.

Anyway, I managed (through a DILD though) to get one my most vivid and best lucids yet. It was kinda short but very clear.

So, there is logic in lightening sleep. This can work!

I had pain all night from tendonitis in my knee and didn't get to sleep until nearly three so I didn't attempt it last night. Will try tonight.

I got a LD early this morning after using the mp3.

I think it was a DILD though, not a WILD. I don't remember what made me lucid but as soon as I knew I was dreaming the dream changed to me being in my bed with in dream SP (as what happens when I WILD) so the entire lucid experience felt more like a WILD than a DILD.

Very simply, I was locked in dream SP and levitated out of it. I then sat on the edge of my bed in my dark bedroom. I looked out the window in front of me. It was dark outside as well. I used the window pane as a screen to project my intentions onto. Eventually I saw a human shape shadow that intrigued me. I waved the shadow out of the window pane and we just stared at each other until I woke up.

*edit*

I also listened to Lucid Ground before I went to sleep.

Saltcube's timer could easily be used for this, if you enter your values manually.

http://www.saltcube.com/timer.html

So I got the audiofile on my iPod, set an alarm for 3:30, put my earphones in, and went to sleep. I went through the cycles from 3:30 to 4:00, and fell asleep with no dreams. I didn't stay up long when the alarm went off, jusst a few seconds, and I was out again.

I woke up around 7:00 after a dream, and tried listening to the alarm again. The sleep was too light to really yield anything, and I got up right before the last alarm.

:(

I'll try to do it again tonight.

Last night I had two lucid dreams. I don't remember if they were during the experiment or separate. Unfortunately halfway through the technique, I had to go to the bathroom and couldn't get back to sleep.

Gah.....the mp3 version won't play on my computer. What kind of file is it??

It's an M4A, a regular iTunes / iPod file. Try it in iTunes.

I would love to try this! My only concern is that an alarm will get my heart pounding (always does) and I may not be able to fall back asleep in the alotted time :? But, I will try it!

I am trying the MP 3 tonight, will let you know what results i get with it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shift

I would love to try this! My only concern is that an alarm will get my heart pounding (always does) and I may not be able to fall back asleep in the alotted time :? But, I will try it!

---

Only the first one should be a jarring awakening, your mind should expect the next one so it shouldn't increase your heart rate.

I tried this and didn't get lucid tho I did have a really cool, vivid and easily recallable dream later on that morning. :)

I didn't find it hard to go back to sleep after the alarms went off but I think I had a lot of FAs.. wondering how many times the alarms had gone off or what alarm this one was of the 4.. it seemed like they kept going off. :P

One thing I will definately do the next time I try this is to reality check after every alarm!

.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Only the first one should be a jarring awakening, your mind should expect the next one so it shouldn't increase your heart rate.

---

But still, I don't think I could manage to get back to sleep within 40 min, let alone 16, so the alarms might just prevent me from dozing off again. I guess I could use a softer alarm, like just a vibration. Also then my dorm-neighbors probably won't hate me :tongue:. Like I said, I'll give it a try and experiment til I find something that works :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

It's an M4A, a regular iTunes / iPod file. Try it in iTunes.

---

Hmm...that might be my problem; I don't have iTunes.

I can't open it either, and I have iTunes. I think it is a .zip and iTunes uses mp3 or WMV or somthing. Hell, I have no idea what I am talking about.

You have to unzip it first. :tongue: It's an M4A zipped up to make the download smaller. Unzip with with your operating system, then open it with iTunes.

WILL BE ATTEMPTING THIS TONIGHT!!! I hope I get my first lucid!!!

Hope so.

Going off of what Clarity said, i feel like this technique would yield a lot of false awakenings. Are there any times we should do a RC after the timer wakes us up?

I can't seem to DownLoad this file! I keep trying and it's confusing, I extract it and it doesn't work right...and I'm just getting stressed out.

Could someone help?

Was in too deep sleep to even begin to use my intention span to try last night. Will hopefully try again tonight with better results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jorge

I can't seem to DownLoad this file! I keep trying and it's confusing, I extract it and it doesn't work right...and I'm just getting stressed out.

Could someone help?

---

What specifically are you confused about? It is in a zip archive. You have to first extract it. Inside the zip is an M4A file for iTunes and iPod.


Once again, I had 2 lucid dreams last night, but neither of them were during the technique. :?

My results for this weekend:

Saturday:
One lucid dream while using the technique, a short DILD.

Sunday:
No dream recall due to lack of sleep and dreams.


Next weekend I will use ONLY the iPod file so that other subliminal, lucid dreaming, etc files will not have the chance to induce any lucid dreams that may come.

Because I'm too lazy to back read this morning, anyone know how many LDs were induced using this method?

Ok so i did this last night, i set four alarms to wake me up at decreasing intervals. I barely remember the last two waking me up, but i do remember having false awakenings after each of them. I think if i focused my intent more at the last couple of awakenings i could achieve a lucid dream.

How do we prevent false awakenings though, one of the big parts of this technique is to not move, yet then we cannot do reality checks. We might be in a false awakening and dont want to do a rc for fear of ruining our chances to wild.

I think there are some RCs you can do with minimal movement... These are ones I've heard of:

Try to whistle, try to breath while simultaneously plugging your nose from the inside (like when you swim underwater), if you have your eyes open you could try some quick telekinesis, keep a digital clock nearby and just take a few peeks before going back to sleep? Anyone else have any ideas?

Trying to teleport (if you can usually in a LD) and making shit appear is all that I got

I just try to put my finger through my plam. Its very discreet, so I can do it in school. Which is helpful, as I'm trying to RC everytime I walk through a door.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shift

try to breath while simultaneously plugging your nose from the inside (like when you swim underwater)

---

:? I've never heard of such thing. I breathe out while underwater to keep water going up there. How do you block your nose from the inside? :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

:? I've never heard of such thing. I breathe out while underwater to keep water going up there. How do you block your nose from the inside? :tongue:

---

I should note that I can barely swim underwater without holding my nose... But it is possible!! Try to make the snorting sound that some people make when they laugh... feel that thing that feels like it's being torn apart? Or when you snort, like you have a cold? I guess it's the thing that shuts your nose when you breath through your mouth/swallow, you can feel it then too. I have no idea what the inside of your nose is called. But you can plug it, to plug your nose! It's why I've never understood why people are always asking how to do discreet RCs :tongue:

I will join the experiment! I have weekends off and will do so on weekends... should this be under research forums?...

The research forum gets very little views and it kind of being fazed out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shift

I should note that I can barely swim underwater without holding my nose... But it is possible!! Try to make the snorting sound that some people make when they laugh... feel that thing that feels like it's being torn apart? Or when you snort, like you have a cold? I guess it's the thing that shuts your nose when you breath through your mouth/swallow, you can feel it then too. I have no idea what the inside of your nose is called. But you can plug it, to plug your nose! It's why I've never understood why people are always asking how to do discreet RCs :tongue:

---

:bowdown: Why the hell didn't my swim coach tell me about this? :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

The research forum gets very little views and it kind of being fazed out.


:bowdown: Why the hell didn't my swim coach tell me about this? :P

---

Shit I dunno, but it certainly hasn't helped me with swimming! The only time I can stay underwater without plugging my nose is in LDs, I'm pretty incompetent when it comes to anything but doggy-paddling in RL :cheeky: I wish you the best of luck! It's sure to help other people hahaha

im gone try it tonight, lets hope i remember to post results tommorow, and even more important attain luicidity :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lucidboarder

Going off of what Clarity said, i feel like this technique would yield a lot of false awakenings. Are there any times we should do a RC after the timer wakes us up?

---

I'm guessing every time, so if you FA you'll RC and be in business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shift

I have no idea what the inside of your nose is called. But you can plug it, to plug your nose! It's why I've never understood why people are always asking how to do discreet RCs :tongue:

---

Or you can push your tongue to the roof of your mouth and breathe through your mouth. That one's my staple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zildjohn01

Or you can push your tongue to the roof of your mouth and breathe through your mouth. That one's my staple.

---

I can still breathe... I did some more reality checks, but I'm 99&#37; sure I'm not dreaming...

I only remember hearing a few of the alarms last night. I wonder if I turned the volume down too much or if I don't remember them Not remembering them would be a good sign, it means I was right on that border between sleep and awake. I'm making a new M4A for those of us who take longer to get to sleep.

I won't use it tonight because I have a job interview at 7am.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I won't use it tonight because I have a job interview at 7am.

---

Good luck tomorrow with your interview! :goodjob2:

.

well, tried it last night, either I only woke up once or twice or I don't remember, but I couldn't keep track of which alarm it is so I didn't know when to start WILDing...

Uploaded the longer one. This one takes an hour :? http://www.filefactory.com/file/5177...ment_2_m4a_zip

This sounds really interesting. I'd like to try this over a long weekend or something. BTW, just on the side, I've been off the site for a while now and I wanna get going again, but I'm not seeing alot of the usual names anymore. Ninja, you did the lucid mp3 about a year ago during the summer right? What happened to everyone?

How does I unzip a file :?:

Mac OSX: Ctrl + Click -> Open With -> Archive Utility
Linux: (in terminal) unzip filename.zip
Windows: Double Click -> Extract All Files

I'd love to give this a go! I can't participate right away, but will as soon as possible.

Got it! It's suppposed to be an hour long, right?

i tried to open the attachment. and my computer screen turned black... ?:uhm:

This sounds great and I will definitely give this a try. I'm usually good about catching FA's. Tommorow, I'll post any results I have.

Also, a Linux program to do this would be nice. I would make one myself, except I'm brand new to ubuntu and still haven't figured out how to program anything on it.
EDIT: I found an EXCELLENT program for linux. It is better than Citrus !!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Offic...ck-31341.shtml

As for a windows alarm program, Citrus Alarm Clock is genius. It is simple, but has very controllable settings to get just what you need (most of the time). Too bad it doesn't work in wine :,(

Looks like you found a program, that's good. I wrote a program for Linux, but didn't compile it for it.

Yeah =]

I tried this technique last night and it didn't work...I couldn't fall back to sleep. I'm going to keep on trying and see how it goes.

Gah. I keep just falling back to sleep. I'm just TOO tired!!! :[

You're supposed to fall back to sleep, only try and WILD the last time. Maybe I should make that alarm different so that you know that you should WILD. Will post a new MP3 tomorrow :P

I know. My problem is I finally just turn off my phone to stop the alarm.

(Firstly, I'm in a hurry to get out the door so skipped a couple of pages of the thread so apologies if this has already been suggested)

Ninja do you reckon it would be better to use a visual aid at the moment of truth rather than a different sounding alarm..

Like for the first few alarms, a red flasher and then at the key alarm use a green flasher.. I'm a programmer and if your interested I could make a fully customizable program so that a user can set specific start times with ease so they could experiment with the start time or subsequent times for better documentation of results.. That way if a person takes longer to get to sleep then he or she could set the start time to like 4:45 or 4:52 if they wanted..

Also, as a variation to the visual cue at the key moment, I could set it so that a certain image was displayed on the screen to aid the persons creation of a particualr scene in their heads.. So like each user can upload their own scenes to the program to display at the crucial moment to induce their preferrered environment..

Interested..?

MrDamon, I can't speak for ninja.. but I think a visual cue that would display a certain image (or images) on my screen would be great and it would definately help me create a specific scene in my head (and hopefully to dream about it).

.

I know that I can't see my computer when my alarms go off, but I could program that if you'd like. I'll start programming something like that later if you want, I'll make it cross platform, but someone else would have to compile the Windows version because I don't have the compiler.

I'll do what I can on the Windows side..

Was just working on it a bit earlier.. headin off to bed now so will touch on it again tomorrow and i'll let ya know when i'm done so you can check it out..

I'll use GLUT and OpenGL and write it in GNU C so that you can compiler it on Windows without having to change anything.

I've only got experience with Visual basic myself but i'll take a look and see what I can do..

*ninja's head explodes at the thought of VB*

Lol.. hope thats not a bad thing.. I get what I need out of it without having to learn too much.. Got limited Gigabytes left in this brain! ;)

I'm off to bed, later...

Sorry for the double post - Ninja, you reckon it would be a good idea for the people who are too tired when they wake up to record their voice giving the order to attempt WILD and have that sound file play at the key moment.. I think it might be worth a shot to anyone who's willing to make their own sound file..

I'll surely trying this tonight! Maybe I'll even get my little bro to try it too ;) I'll post the results tomorrow!

Ok, I will be able to do it now... considering I'm done with CAT lol

Tried this last night. I was having troubles with my alarm, so I was only able to set 3 alarms. I calculated my REM time and judged 5:00 AM to land at the start of a REM period, so my alarms were 5:00, 5:16, and 5:24. Didn't go lucid, I think I just dropped off too fast to seriously attempt a WILD.

More importantly, I clearly recall my alarm going off 4 times, so I had a false awakening in there somewhere. Do yourself a favor, do a reality check! I would advise against using a clock RC in this case, because time is a major factor in getting this to work, your brain will likely devote extra attention to getting the time to stay steady and realistic.

It's expected that you drop off fast, that's what makes it so easy to WILD :P

I'm done taking care of my father's dogs and will resume testing tonight.

damn alarm set off the wrong file again :mad:

I suggest everyone have a backup alarm for the time they need to rise in the morning, to make sure that in your grogginess you don't get into the habit of turning off ALL alarms and missing class like I did the other day :shock:

:shock: Oops, sorry shift :tongue:

FYI: I'm considering this a primary study to see if doing a real study is worth it. The real study will be much better controlled and take place in the research forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

:shock: Oops, sorry shift :tongue:

FYI: I'm considering this a primary study to see if doing a real study is worth it. The real study will be much better controlled and take place in the research forum.

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haha I should have known better. My mind is so screwy when I first wake up, sometimes I'll be like "Oh it's 6... if I sleep in for 45 minutes, I can get up at 7:45 and then I'll have until 8:00 to get ready, oh yes, that gives me two hours, that's plenty of time." Just total absence of logic when it comes to resetting an alarm clock when I'm groggy lmao Instead of waking up while I am still in a dream, it's like still being in a dream when I wake up :tongue: So yea, backup alarms are my bff :)

Well, I tried 5 o'clock instead of 4:30 and found that I'm not in REM at that time so I'm going back to 4:30.

Funny, I'm in REM around 4:30 as well!!! :D

What time do you guys usually go to bed? Does it make more sense to talk about target REM periods as X+4.5, where X is bedtime and 4.5 is 4 hours and 30 minutes after falling asleep? Because 4:30 is just meaningless to me :(

That's about right. Somewhere between 4.5 and 5 hours of sleep.

It doesn't seem to matter when I go to bed, somehow I'm always in REM at 4:30 :?

Ok, so I've gone through most of the post. It doesn't seem like anybody's getting any success from this.

i will give it a try when i can. :) I usually fall asleep at around 5:00 in the morning though, so i dont know how it will work out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jorge

Ok, so I've gone through most of the post. It doesn't seem like anybody's getting any success from this.

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I did get very tired during the 3rd or 4th awakening, but I worked too much the night before and was simply too tired to attempt a WILD.

I also got a false awakening, which I was not smart enough to catch. I'm guessing that this technique is still useful if you are not good at WILDing, because you have a high chance to have a false awakening, which brings a lucid upon reality checking.

A little confused... The audio file, how long does it take before the initial alarm goes off after you start the file?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shift

What time do you guys usually go to bed? Does it make more sense to talk about target REM periods as X+4.5, where X is bedtime and 4.5 is 4 hours and 30 minutes after falling asleep? Because 4:30 is just meaningless to me :(

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Yeah see that's what was confusing the hell out of me too, :?

Sorry for the double post.

Also, ninja, you should quote and post the reports and comments you're recieving concerning the amount of success people are getting, just so users don't have to skim through the entire thread to find feedback. Just a suggestion :)

But it definitely sounds like a promising technique.. I'd download the audio file if it wasn't for FileFactory telling me it's server is full and to f*ck off. How annoying.

I'm going to start a full scale study when the new research forum is built. Full scientific results will go there.

The first alarm is about 5 seconds into the audio file. I did that because some alarm systems have to switch the sound system on, which takes a second.

Had a lucid dream during the technique last night and another one a few hours later.

Dangit, Ninja, I still can't download the file for this!!! :damnit:

I sent it to your email. :)

Ooooooooooooooooohh.....

That would explain a lot of things. :oops:

EDIT: What day did you send it?

EDIT 2: Nevermind, I found it. :)

EDIT 3: GAH!! It STILL won't play. :damnit:

WMP won't play it, download iTunes from apple.

Humm , Sounds very interesting. I will gave it a try in about 2 weeks during my school break( it will last for 2 weeks).

Is there any way to put the computer in some kind of stand by mode but still allow the audio to be played? I've never comfortable with leaving my computer on 24/7...

Yes, alarm clocks should be able to wake your computer up from standby mode.



This thread is locked :lock:
The official experiment will begin tomorrow and the thread for it is here.