Hypnagogics - ignore or focus?

I have read some contradictory advice on how to handle the hypnagogic imagery that pops up in your mind while going to sleep. It seems to fall into these categories:

1: COMPLETELY IGNORE
Don't look at them. They are hypnotic and make you fall asleep for one thing; and for another, it makes you move your eyes, which tells your body that you are not asleep. If you are attempting a WILD, you need to trick your body into thinking your mind is asleep, and flickering your eyes about looking at the pretty colors gives the game away.

2: FOCUS ON IT
Hypnagogic imagery is a gateway into a lucid dream, and ignoring it simply makes it impossible to go to sleep. Instead, you let it flow (don't try and control it) and watch it like a movie, until the smoke clears and you're in a LD.

3: CONTROL IT
I have also read something about eyelid patterns, in which you attempt to change the shape and colors of the dots appearing. This way, you can stay awake while the body falls asleep.

So, in your experience, which one of these should you do?

you should watch it but not react to it or pay to much attention.
Like when you're watching some bad TV program for example =D

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Originally Posted by Oros

you should watch it but not react to it or pay to much attention.
Like when you're watching some bad TV program for example =D

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Perfect analogy. Passively view it.

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Originally Posted by Abra

Perfect analogy. Passively view it.

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This is what works for me too.

Well I guess everybody's already nailed it. Great answer. Now that I think about it that's what works for me too.

I've never understood this "passively view it" advice. I think this relates to the odd hypnogogic image which might pop up behind your eyelids.

But I find the short dream like sequences, which include characters and movement, utterly absorb me. I can't just passively view them.
One second Im happy in my own head, the next I'm lost in them.
Then I realise whats happening, and they're gone.

Not sure about a WILD, but in the case of MILD I find just pushing them away and ignoring them works well. MILD is suppost to be the last thing we think about when we finally fall asleep.

That said, with my first and only WILD do date, I succeded mainly by making a distinct effort to keep my mind clear. Next thing I know, I'm listening to a band playing in my room than had a OBE type exit into a lucid dream.

Depends what technique you are attempting. For HIT I'd highly recommend watching them ;)

Also, don't forget

4: GET OUT OF BED

There will be some sticky resistance to fight against and temporaly blindness/tunnel vision, but still it's the simplest most direct method to get into the dream state consciously.

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Originally Posted by Oros

you should watch it but not react to it or pay to much attention.
Like when you're watching some bad TV program for example =D

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I think you should pay attention to them, but dont react. When they appear, just let it happen, don't react in anyway, just let them happen and watch them.

If they start to become crystal clear or vivid, then you should try moving into them with your dream body.

ive had 2 wilds not really paying attention, and 1 wild/vild by option #3

When you experience HI just be aware of the images and don't analyze them at all. Don't even think "wow this is cool". Just remain nonchalant and emotionless. In other words, acknowledge what is going on but be disinterested and semi-dettached all the while keeping a vague notion at the back of your mind of "I'm dreaming". Eventually you should find yourself being sucked into one of the images and a dreamscape will fully form around you.

Well, it's been covered now. But I just want to say that this is wrong.

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If you are attempting a WILD, you need to trick your body into thinking your mind is asleep

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I know that was probably a type since you said it right in number 3. But I've seen people say this before and it's completely wrong.
Your body goes to sleep while your mind is awake. Your body can't LD, or think for that matter, so you can't trick it.

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Originally Posted by tommo

Well, it's been covered now. But I just want to say that this is wrong.

I know that was probably a type since you said it right in number 3. But I've seen people say this before and it's completely wrong.
Your body goes to sleep while your mind is awake. Your body can't LD, or think for that matter, so you can't trick it.

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I would have to disagree, your body doesn't goto sleep unless it knows your mind is asleep, the only way for your body to tell if your mind is asleep or not is if you keep completely still.

I know this first hand.

You can however think about things, but then it just takes your body longer to goto sleep, but as long as you remain stilll.....

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Originally Posted by TheMoon

I would have to disagree, your body doesn't goto sleep unless it knows your mind is asleep, the only way for your body to tell if your mind is asleep or not is if you keep completely still.

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I think theres probably way more to it than simply keeping still or not thinking. I have laid in bed for hours on end without moving and had no results, but then laid still with slight movements and managed to WILD. Sometimes my mind wanders, sometimes it is blank, and either way it hasnt really done much for me or apparently many others.

Hi is when the dream begins to form. The only difference between HI and normal dreaming is that you don't have a dream body. So what you should do is try to shake one loose.

If you check out some Astral Projection forums, they have tons of techniques on how to leave your body that work quite well in that situation. Stuff like rolling out of your body, or bouncing out.

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Originally Posted by TheMoon

I would have to disagree, your body doesn't goto sleep unless it knows your mind is asleep, the only way for your body to tell if your mind is asleep or not is if you keep completely still.

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Do you realise that you're saying your body is thinking?

It's more like, your brain realises your body has been still for a long time, it send a little signal like an itch to test if it's asleep. If you don't respond by scratching your brain makes your body fall asleep.

Interesting! For me, focusing and pretty much watching it like a movie, is how I fall asleep every night. I can control it a bit before the HI vanishes, though.

As I lay down, HI will start to come in just tiny bits after some minutes. Just individual pictures, sounds or smells. After a while, it begins to be more like a movie. I just watch it and get more immersed and finally pass out. Unless it's something really cool, which I will try to stay awake for or control.

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Originally Posted by Shift

I think theres probably way more to it than simply keeping still or not thinking. I have laid in bed for hours on end without moving and had no results, but then laid still with slight movements and managed to WILD. Sometimes my mind wanders, sometimes it is blank, and either way it hasnt really done much for me or apparently many others.

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Recent experience makes me agree with shift.
I spent an hour trying to WILD.
Got to the stage where I was more aware of my mind than body.
I also managed to "passively" watch HI mini-dreams. The still absorbed me when they occured, but at the end of each one the impact was less jarring, and I knew what had happened.

Any-hoo, after an hour I kinda gave up, turned around a couple of times, couldn't get comfortable then snuggled into my wife.

Next thing I know the SP hits and my dream body starts wildly spinning in bed. Then I get up and I'm in a FA lucid.

That's interesting. There's so many tech explanation here about what to do when you get an itch or whatever. According to you two it doesn't matter.
What could be the cause behind WILD'ing then?
Simply staying aware as you fall asleep?
Are all these HI methods pointless? or just other ways to keep you aware, but not too aware to fall asleep.?

Regarding the ITCH, or whatever. What happens is that the part of the brain called the CEREBELLUM is responsible for all muscular activity when we are awake. When we go to sleep, the cerebellum swiches off the muscular activity so we don't physically act out our dreams.

The cerebellum then changes its function and becomes the part of the brain where dream memories are stored. That's why when you wake up, you can recover dream memories by slowly moving one limb at a time.

Regarding the ITCH. What seems to be happening is that the cerebellum sends a signal to the body asking if it is relaxed enough (asleep) and ready to switch off. If you don't scratch the itch, the cerebellum switches the body off and goes into sleep paralysis and dream memory mode.

Regarding HI, it seems best to passively gaze through them (beyond them) and not make any eye movements, otherwise the cerebellum will be confused and may not switch the body off.

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Originally Posted by ZenVortex

Regarding the ITCH, or whatever. What happens is that the part of the brain called the CEREBELLUM is responsible for all muscular activity when we are awake. When we go to sleep, the cerebellum swiches off the muscular activity so we don't physically act out our dreams.

The cerebellum then changes its function and becomes the part of the brain where dream memories are stored. That's why when you wake up, you can recover dream memories by slowly moving one limb at a time.

Regarding the ITCH. What seems to be happening is that the cerebellum sends a signal to the body asking if it is relaxed enough (asleep) and ready to switch off. If you don't scratch the itch, the cerebellum switches the body off and goes into sleep paralysis and dream memory mode.

Regarding HI, it seems best to passively gaze through them (beyond them) and not make any eye movements, otherwise the cerebellum will be confused and may not switch the body off.

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What if the itch becomes all you can think about, or the position you are laying in is not comfortable anymore?

Scratch the itch and then forget about it!

Otherwise not scratching it will fuck you up, because itches get way more intense than having to roll over.

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Originally Posted by bushi

Scratch the itch and then forget about it!

Otherwise not scratching it will fuck you up, because itches get way more intense than having to roll over.

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I find the itch goes away quickly as soon as the test is completed by the body. About 10 seconds.
Thats why I leave it and not possibly waste the hour I have waited to WILD, for eg.

If the itch stays there you're not doing it right. lol