I'm sure that if there were question about which one of these threads to delete my thread would probably still remain considering the original poster hasnt been on the site in over 13 months and now brings nothing to the community. I really do appreciate being part of this community and helping to develop it even though some of the contradictions here annoy me. For instance, someone makes a informative video series and gives away the entire first series yet sells the second series. His name is chastised and his methods attacked. Another man sells books, camp events, and continues to this day but he is a god in many of your eyes. Even though you claim that lucid dreaming should be free (which I agree 100 percent) but never seem to have a problem with Stephen Laberge selling everywhere yet people keep referencing him as a master.
This is my last post in this thread if I can manage to keep myself away from it .I am tired of having to explain its obvious ridiculousness. Even if you don't like Nicholas Newport. Even if his methods do not work for you personally. They do work. Not only do his methods work for many people but they are also free.. Yes they work and they are free. When I was a newbie myself I had my first Lucid Dream using his timer method in correlation with this Sleep Paralysis methods. Since then at least 60 percent of my lucidness can be attributed to the methods of lucidology. Many of those methods such as the "translucent eyelids effect" I have never seen discussed here unless they were in relation to someone asking questions about lucidology. The "translucent eyelids effect" is the very first indicator in realizing I am dreaming in many cases. Most of the other methods he speaks of (that i also haven't seen here) work just as well and I use them regularly depending on the induction.
Newbies ALMOST always come across the lucidology series in the beginning so It would be wise that we discuss it here in an unbiased fashion. If you fellow seasoned lucid dreamers and moderators want to help newbies as much as I do, then it seems you would want them to have all weapons available in their arsenal as opposed to deterring them away from methods that do work for many many people.
One other point about the lucidology series. The entire first 12 videos of the series are presented completely free even though they do advertise. I did purchase the 2nd video course a long while ago but later ended up finding it somewhere and downloading it on the internet so not only is it very informative but its also pretty easy to continue the second course for free if you can't afford it.
Onto the mis-information of this thread.
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ORIGINAL POST WITH CORRECTIONS BELOW
Hi Everyone.
I just wanted to put a warning out there for newbie lucid dreamers, and those of you who have perhaps come across the work of Nicholas Newport aka Lucidology.com or luciddreamtricks (on youtube). It would seem that what we have here is an individual who is looking to promote themselves as an "expert" in the field of lucid dreaming to earn a quick buck, However, it's important to note that Mr Newport, has no qualifications, history or any clear experience to justify his choosing to call himself an expert. It does get worse though, having watched all his videos, I would warn any newbie lucid dreamer, to IGNORE his suggestions. You will be wasting your time. Most if not all the information is incorrect at best. At worst it is completely misleading.
He promotes himself as an expert just like many other "experts" in the field of lucid dreaming. His "qualifications, history, and clear experience"
come from his own declaration. This entire topic of lucid dreaming is based on the trust system. When one of the lucid dreamers in this forum claim to have had an experience, we believe it. Nicholas claims to have had thousands of Lucid dreams as do a few people on these forums as well.. I believe he does because he seems to have an "inside" understanding of lucid dreaming as someone with history of doing so would. As for having watched his videos and claiming that no one should trust anything he says? This is creating misinformation itself. It is obvious that the methods did not work for the original poster or he didn't try them. However, as I have said many times now, many of these methods work for me with an accuracy rate that is even surprising to me. So if "newbies" were to follow the advise of this now absent poster, they would be possibly screwing themselves out of many many lucid experiences, or at least a later start than what may have been possible.
Also bear in mind that his ultimate goal is to convince you of his expertise so that you will then part with your cash for stage 2 of the course. Opinion of someone who failed using these techniques and quite possibly failed as a lucid dreamer but still opinion.
He uses an array of marketing and advertising tricks to try to fool you. He firstly, has created his own language for lucid dreaming. Including methods, terminology and buzz words. He's basically trying to reinvent the wheel, so he can then claim he invented the wheel and sell it to you. What right has he to invade the subject of lucid dreaming, call himself an expert, and then confuse and mislead people by creating new terminology for methods and terms that are embeded in the culture of lucid dreaming?
Marketing and advertising tricks to fool you? Hmm, He adds an intentional advertisement at the end of each video to sell his second series. That is marketing, not a marketing trick, and it isnt fooling anyone. Its obvious. Created his own buzzwords, methods, and terminology? Strange, many of us on the forum seem to do this daily. We create new words to explain things we don't understand, create new methods that sometimes work great and sometimes fail. We also create new terminology for methods that we are testing in many times that there is nothing already existing that explains it in the way we feel suitable. Didn't Stephen Laberge create new terminology and aren't we all creating new terminology every day? Thats a great reason to chastise this guy. What claim is he making for being the creator of lucid dreaming? He isn't, in fact, he mentions reading many books by others on lucid dreaming so obviously he didn't create it.....
Secondly, he trys to blind you with "science". I put science in quotation marks, because it is far from science. It reminds me of infomercials, and shampoo adverts where they say "here comes the science bit", then show you a load of meaningless graphs and numbers, all that make no sense, just to confuse you into thinking they know what they are talking about.
He DOSN'T know what he is talking about.
"Trys to Blind you with science"? Trys haha, Then blabs about shampoo commercials.
Ok, the same "science" he discusses in the videos are the same "science" stephen laberge talks about on a regular basis. Most of the "science" from the lucidology series is also the same science that was proven by Stephen Laberge.
Let me take an example:
In his STOP DROP AND ROLL video A ten minute long video, that can basically be summed up in one sentence: "if you're trying to have a wild, don't move too much" But here are the huge flaws in his theory: He claims something called Mind Body Independence saying: mind body independence. The mind never knows precisely what the body is doing and vice versa. He then trys to prove this by stating that hair grows on your body, and your mind dosn't know about it, or that digestive systems work without the mind being aware of it. Kind of vaguely true on the surface, but he takes these and other similar points, then draws the conclusion that: The body will test to see if the mind is asleep by sending (here comes his own terminology) roll over signals. A roll over signal apparently is any urge to move, or any pain in the body, when trying to go to sleep. These are "test signals" being sent by the body, to test if the brain is asleep (rather than just maybe, being uncomfortable.)
What he fails to address is: WHERE IS THIS DECISION BEING MADE?
Which part of the body, independent from the brain chooses to send a signal to test the brain? The spleen? the testicles? the heart? Also he fails to recognise that the mind and body are NOT INDEPENDENT there are a complete system in constant communication via the NERVOUS SYSTEM. He also fails to recognise that Sleep Paralysis (which he claims is a choice made by the body when it thinks the mind is asleep) is actually as far as science knows, controlled from within the brain pons region of the brain.
Ok, first of all in the stop drop and roll series he explains a communication theory he has about how to tell the body you are ready to sleep. Its hypothetical and he even explains that is it something he discovered that worked for him, but its still hypothetical. Secondly in the stop drop and roll series he talks about Mind/body independence. He says that the body is always doing things separately form the mind. This is true. The brain does not send constant signals to each cell and tell it to reproduce or to each hair follicle and tell it to grow hair. There is a separation in what the mind controls and what the body controls that science recognizes. Science doesn't account for what causes sleep paralysis directly but they believe sleep paralysis is closely related to REM Atoniaia. So we can't say whether Nicholas Newport is correct or not about sleep paralysis but the fact is that we can't say for certain either way. His opinions of laying perfectly still are echoed here throughout dreamviews again and again. So we all know this is important for bringing on sleep paralysis because it works. We all also know that when we seem to be getting very close to SP, itching/being very uncomfortable are also very common and we have to try to ignore it to continue. So these theories do in fact seem reliable. I don't personally believe he means that sleep paralysis is controlled by a thought process of the body, but it does seem that one part of the mind tests another part of the mind to test its state. We do know that many parts of the mind are independent from one another so this is possible. So it would be possible that one part of the mind may send test signals to the body to see if another part of the mind would respond, thus meaning it is not sleeping. But this is hypothetical as well. He sarcastically mentions that maybe we are just uncomfortable and need to move? It seems that no matter how comfortable we position ourselves we still get these urges to move.. so where do they come from and for what purpose? It is unknown.. so this theory also is sensible, although still theory.
There are endless contradictions to science, the science of lucidity, basic biology etc. etc. etc. throughout his videos. More opinion without evidence
If i had the time, I would like to break down each of his videos and point out the flaws and misinformation in them. Unfortunatly I do not have the time.
May I suggest it possibly a DreamViews project, that intelligent memebers of the forum, help educate the new members to the misinformation in these videos?
This is what my thread is for, and what my thread is currently in the process of for those of you following it. I am breaking down the misinformation in THESE videos.
Anyhow, just a warning.
Don't believe everything you seen on YouTube.
Be extra wary when someone is trying to sell you something, and trying to blind you with made up science and lots of graphs, that if you take the time to look at, actually MAKE NO SENSE.
Lucidolgy.com may not be exactly a scam in the classic sense of the word.
But it is certainly hugely misleading, misinformation and bad for the subject of lucid dreaming. Its close enough to a scam for my tastes.
Be warned.
Don't believe everything you see on YouTube. Thanks, I'm pretty sure that part is common sense. The graphs on lucidology actually make A LOT of sense.. for instance how he shows hovering on the wake/asleep threshold makes it much more likely to lucid dream.. Yes, this is true and we know this, hence many methods to induce lucid dreaming use this. Wake back to bed, and many more. So this part is completely incorrect. "it is certainly hugely misleading, misinformation and bad for the subject of lucid dreaming. Its close enough to a scam for my tastes."More opinion and completely incorrect in my experience as well as many others experience.
So there we have it. And thank god its over, but I have just proven that exact original post of misinformation is in fact very mis-informative . Why does it even exists here in the first place? Thankfully he even suggested that someone create a new topic and truly break down Lucidology and the methods. Ahem... So he actually gave support to exactly what I am doing? That's interesting. For those of you who would like to continue a real discussion on lucidology and its methods.. including the accuracies and likelihood of them working (good or bad) feel free to continue at my thread below. Otherwise I'm really done wasting time on this thread. Thanks for reading everyone as this post took me 2 hours to write.. I hope it cleared a few things up.
I'm seriously only doing this because I want to help people. I even mentioned you can watch the "paid" series if you don't have a way to contribute to the author if you must, but I can't link it. All this information is available for free. Just because the guy tries to sell his "advanced" methods doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile. Stephen Laberge sells his information but I've never bought a Stephen Laberge book even though I've read them. Try not to be too defensive here. I'm just pointing out the obvious.
http://www.dreamviews.com/f45/lucido...e-here-109585/
