Why I am not Trying to Prove Shared Dreaming

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Originally Posted by Atras

I agree

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Well at least I use more words in my useless posts!

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Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Oh and btw. in 2012 the sun will most likely destroy every mode of modern communication (cell phones, internet, TV, etc.) by way of disabling all satellite capabilities. This has been reported on major news networks, has been known for years by the government, and according to NASA will be like 20 Hurricane Katrinas in the first year alone. And thats just the US.

I will be happy to be electricity free communicating with the dreamers of the world letting each other know whats going on. Perhaps we can teach the younger ones these "secrets" and come out the other side of this Gaia balancing act a more aware species. We will see i suppose. I'm just psyched about psyching with other psychers. :)

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If you delete the first part of your post, this would become a post worth reading. And I agree.

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Originally Posted by Zebrah

Shared dreaming is something that would be hard to use to turn a profit. That is the real reason funding is non existent. But if a philanthropist decided to donate money to research, things would get done.

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Well, if you do what I described, you could potentially get money for research. It's not likely that we will be able to explore far-off places without shared dreaming in the near (or even distant) future. Plus, if you used shared dreaming for technology development, then you would be able to make a profit in the physical plane off of it.

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Originally Posted by Snowboy

Well, if you do what I described, you could potentially get money for research. It's not likely that we will be able to explore far-off places without shared dreaming in the near (or even distant) future. Plus, if you used shared dreaming for technology development, then you would be able to make a profit in the physical plane off of it.

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I suppose it would work for development. But it's not going to be as high a priority as something taxable. And by taxable I mean in the purest sense of shared dreaming. The products that are developed could be taxed but dreaming cannot be.

Things that provide quicker and higher pay offs are going to be explored more.

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Originally Posted by Zebrah

Things that provide quicker and higher pay offs are going to be explored more.

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So, you'd rather spend 1900 years traveling at the speed of light to and from a star than to get there in a dream in two seconds? I don't follow your logic.

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Originally Posted by Snowboy

So, you'd rather spend 1900 years traveling at the speed of light to and from a star than to get there in a dream in two seconds? I don't follow your logic.

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I would prefer to shared dream. I am simply explaining why research isn't going to happen soon.

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Originally Posted by Zebrah

I would prefer to shared dream. I am simply explaining why research isn't going to happen soon.

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Oh... I skipped over some parts of that. Didn't realize you were talking about research into shared dreaming. :oops:

I think it will be a while before we get somebody that studies shared dreams. We don't have many dream researchers at the moment (that was a guess; correct me if I'm wrong), much less a shared dream researcher.

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Originally Posted by Snowboy

Oh... I skipped over some parts of that. Didn't realize you were talking about research into shared dreaming. :oops:

I think it will be a while before we get somebody that studies shared dreams. We don't have many dream researchers at the moment (that was a guess; correct me if I'm wrong), much less a shared dream researcher.

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Yeah I knew you just miss read what I was saying. There are no well established shared dreaming researches to my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Zebrah

Shared dreaming is something that would be hard to use to turn a profit. That is the real reason funding is non existent. But if a philanthropist decided to donate money to research, things would get done.

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So who here has a trust fund? haha...at least Inception's monumental success seems to be raising public awareness on dreaming. Kind of funny really, when I'd discuss lucidity or astral projections with most people pre-Inception I mostly got disinterested stares but now in the post-Inception world people can't seem to get enough :o

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Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Oh and btw. in 2012 the sun will most likely destroy every mode of modern communication (cell phones, internet, TV, etc.) by way of disabling all satellite capabilities. This has been reported on major news networks, has been known for years by the government, and according to NASA will be like 20 Hurricane Katrinas in the first year alone. And thats just the US.

I will be happy to be electricity free communicating with the dreamers of the world letting each other know whats going on. Perhaps we can teach the younger ones these "secrets" and come out the other side of this Gaia balancing act a more aware species. We will see i suppose. I'm just psyched about psyching with other psychers. :)

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Dont be too happy about this. If this happens there will be no electricity at all, its not just communication, its transportation, plumbing, heating, ect.. And yes i did just diverge from the topic

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

This is actually a well-known (and widely-accepted) phenomenon known as black body radiation. It is all matter, not just humans, that give off this light; most of which is infra-red.

I do find it interesting, though. In f
act, I wonder if certain peoples' alleged ability to see auras is, more specifically, their ability to detect these levels of infra-red light. :-?

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That's cool! But, I was talking about a more recent discovery of visible light.
Strange! Humans Glow in Visible Light | LiveScience

And, yeah, it did not make the mainstream news.

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Originally Posted by Zebrah

I suppose it would work for development. But it's not going to be as high a priority as something taxable. And by taxable I mean in the purest sense of shared dreaming. The products that are developed could be taxed but dreaming cannot be.

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$500 dollars for one year access to the dream plane, another $100 for access to physic powers and $50 for dream weaponry
you know what governments are like these days, tax for just about everything :P

How would they stop you? Get their own trained people to dream about you? lol right

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

That's cool! But, I was talking about a more recent discovery of visible light.
Strange! Humans Glow in Visible Light | LiveScience

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Ah. Good find. Very cool stuff. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

And, yeah, it did not make the mainstream news.

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Actually, yes. It did.
FOX News
MSNBC

WakingNomad, people don't believe you because from what I've read, the majority of your shared dreams are purely anecdotal. You don't try to apply a scientific method to it, at all. If you got a group of people to exchange secret words or phrases, and got a neutral third party involved, that would probably be good enough for more people to start trying shared dreaming. You don't need an isolated sleep lab to collect scientific evidence.

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Originally Posted by MindGames

WakingNomad, people don't believe you because from what I've read, the majority of your shared dreams are purely anecdotal. You don't try to apply a scientific method to it, at all. If you got a group of people to exchange secret words or phrases, and got a neutral third party involved, that would probably be good enough for more people to start trying shared dreaming. You don't need an isolated sleep lab to collect scientific evidence.

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Please read the DJ by DreamAs1.

Don't make me cut and paste.

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Originally Posted by MindGames

WakingNomad, people don't believe you because from what I've read, the majority of your shared dreams are purely anecdotal. You don't try to apply a scientific method to it, at all. If you got a group of people to exchange secret words or phrases, and got a neutral third party involved, that would probably be good enough for more people to start trying shared dreaming. You don't need an isolated sleep lab to collect scientific evidence.

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you can't prove it to others unless you have a sleep lab, if not everyone will say "he rigged it!" he has proved it to himself, and that is all he can do at the moment

Okay, so why don't you formalize those results? Get a neutral third party involved, have them make a separate thread in which they post any new results you guys have and analyze them. Skeptics aren't going to read your dream journals for evidence in the first place if they don't believe they're real.

I posted a good process for examining the results in the shared dreaming experiment thread. I wouldn't have a problem examining results if you guys sent them to me. Although, I wouldn't analyze the results unless you guys agreed to use secret words/phrases, or some other believable method of verifying a shared dream, when you attempt shared dreams.


Anyway, the point is, if you design a formal experiment which attempts to conclusively prove the existence of shared dreaming through the use of secret pass-phrases, then more people will be interested and could take part in the experiment, too. Not many skeptics are willing to just jump into shared dreaming to prove it to themselves unless they see solid experimental results from other people, making use of evidence such as successfully transferred pass phrases, etc.

Of course it won't be 100% believable. All information on the internet, including scientific studies, has a chance of being fake. But if you apply a rigid experimental structure to shared dreaming, it will increase the believability of its existence.

You realize that the third party could just be making stuff up, or be communicating with the testers more than they should, or that the testers can talk before sending the results to a third party, right? That makes it, well, as credible as logged entries.

In any case, I prefer to take the challenge to share a dream with the people who want to try it, after all, I'm a skeptic too. Unless there is a lab, the credibility isn't going to go up, and then you need peer reviews, so even lab stuff can't be all that credible.

How about instead of trying to prove whether or not waking nomad is telling the truth, just try it yourself. And then if you try and find out it's real, you can find a way to prove it.

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Originally Posted by Atras

How about instead of trying to prove whether or not waking nomad is telling the truth, just try it yourself. And then if you try and find out it's real, you can find a way to prove it.

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that is the whole point nomads trying to get across!! haha

lol indeed, that was quite the summary.

There is no objective proof- you can always say somebody has been lying/skewing results for personal gain, or not including all information on the subject, and only publishing an experiment that proves their subjective analysis for money/fame. This is why WakingNomad doesn't want to prove Shared Dreaming. Its an inherent part of who we are, not something that should be corporatized, or used for profit or any of that shit. Besides...there are many who still don't believe lucid dreaming is possible, or even care to try it...takes too much time...too much commitment. People want the pill for lucidity...not the hard work. We really need a rebirth of discipline around the world.

What WakingNomad wants...and I agree as well on the subject, is to bring the idea to serious consideration to the masses at large. Guess what...science can't really tell you how you can CONSCIOUSLY change your breath patterns. They have nice theories...but no solid concrete proof. We're still in the detail based science stage of humanity...not the interconnectedness portion yet...will take a bit longer for that to happen :) .

As such...How you do it, and how it is done is two entirely different things. How it is done is very complicated...we don't have the right vernacular to explain it, and it would take to long, and you wouldn't be able to do it based off of how it is done. Instead...prove it to yourself, and how you do it will become apparent to you.

How do you prove it to yourself? Get a friend interested in dreaming. Ask them if they want to do a 30 day study. Focus on remembering and recording your dreams. Use a tape recorder. Also focus on Sharing a dream with that person, remember how they energetically feel, how they feel to you. Do this before bed until you remember a dream with them in it IN WHICH THEY FEEL THE SAME AS THEY DO IWL. Then write it down. List 2-3 general settings on another piece of paper, and give it to your friend. Have them write down the dream. Give paper to each other. Be openminded, being close minded will result in skeptical perceptions in dreamworld...which result in failed confirmations, or making up by your dream mind.

I would give 30 days a good try, don't expect anything. Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Atras

Dont be too happy about this. If this happens there will be no electricity at all, its not just communication, its transportation, plumbing, heating, ect.. And yes i did just diverge from the topic

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I would not say it makes me happy, but it is encouraging. Everyday I am sickened by the depths to which our culture slops in its own vomit. The same techs that brought exposure and freedom of information also brought increased distraction from reality. Given that our world in general is more spiritually aware then in past times, perhaps this will be an opportunity for people to reconnect. What better way then to take away the very thing that powers every sensory distraction and plunge us into sweet, truthful darkness.

Its gonna be us lonely people and our minds. Could be just my imagineering but this could be the chance that increased consciousness has been waiting for. Modern knowledge in past ways of life just sounds like the perfect recipe for increased interconnectedness. That said, it could be an immense opportunity to teach people about dreams and how it connects everyone. Using an experience everyone can relate to and drawing the line to the collective unconscious and interconnected energy of all things could definitely be an eye opener for many scared, starving people.

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Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I have contacted every scientist in the U.S. that studies dreams. No one is interested in shared dreaming experiments.

So many people want to be convinced. This I do not understand. "Convince me, then I'll try it," seems to be a pervasive attitude. Why? What have you got to lose by trying shared dreaming? You are asleep anyway for chrissakes.

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Here's how I see this....In our world, I am afraid of falling because I can not fly or levitate, and if I fall I will hurt myself. I think scientists are like this. They don't want paranormal stuff to be real because they're smart enough to know that it brings real risks, but they aren't good at it and can't control it. If you're Stephen Hawking, you're on the top of your world, a sage of the modern world. If shared dreaming is real, then Hawking isn't a sage any more, because his theories can't even begin to account for it. So Hawking, though a great and intelligent man, dismisses everything that he can't make predictive models of as unreal. The anthropic principle and the idea of 'randomness' in quantum theory are two examples of ways that they deal with questions that they can not answer. Both principles are valid, but they use them to declare anything that they can't master as off limits. If you were to demonstrate shared dreaming, it wouldn't be an asset for them in their world, because they can't design an experiment which everyone can set up and repeat and get the same results.

I think its just as well though, because magic becomes possible, and people wreak enough havoc with the power they already have. Science does have a certain reliable civility to it, notwithstanding its dark side.

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Here's how I see this....In our world, I am afraid of falling because I can not fly or levitate, and if I fall I will hurt myself. I think scientists are like this. They don't want paranormal stuff to be real because they're smart enough to know that it brings real risks, but they aren't good at it and can't control it. If you're Stephen Hawking, you're on the top of your world, a sage of the modern world. If shared dreaming is real, then Hawking isn't a sage any more, because his theories can't even begin to account for it. So Hawking, though a great and intelligent man, dismisses everything that he can't make predictive models of as unreal. The anthropic principle and the idea of 'randomness' in quantum theory are two examples of ways that they deal with questions that they can not answer. Both principles are valid, but they use them to declare anything that they can't master as off limits. If you were to demonstrate shared dreaming, it wouldn't be an asset for them in their world, because they can't design an experiment which everyone can set up and repeat and get the same results.

I think its just as well though, because magic becomes possible, and people wreak enough havoc with the power they already have. Science does have a certain reliable civility to it, notwithstanding its dark side.

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I am afraid of heights cos i feel that i can fly and i wanna jump but i do not truly believe that i can fly :) so i can imagine what will happen with my body. Anyway thats for fun but is true. Btw im a scientist and i have problems with my fellow scientist to make them open their heads to what is out there. but they get aggressive when i touch things beyond the books they know :)

On the topic now. This situation looks like a kid who do not what to eat something cos never tried it before. Somewhere i have read/heard a thing which goes smth like this: you have to believe in order to see and not see in order to believe. More, this is forum for dreamers and is called "Beyond dreaming". So why bother be here if you have no believe in more than scientifically proven things. Another very nice sentence i heard: My mind is made up, dont confuse with facts! :)

Peace and go dream or even share dream.

Last thing. We are constantly share dreaming. And calling it reality. I suspect that we share dream in the dream world much more often than we think but we do not know cos we are stupid. The idea is to do it consciously.