I was wondering can you be in a lucid dream and meditate or relax and go in astral project? I saw a artical on the internet that you could. But have any of you done it?
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I was wondering can you be in a lucid dream and meditate or relax and go in astral project? I saw a artical on the internet that you could. But have any of you done it?
I have heard about it but that's about it.
*Moved to Beyond dreaming*
You can. I would do this by erasing part of the scene and picturing something like a worm hole or space/time rift as seeen in sci-fi movies. Know in your heart that it will take you beyond the edges of your own inner self and move into it. The feeling should be as if you are going so deep into yourself that you reach the center and keep going, untill you have reach a new place, beyond the confines of your mind.
Easy to say, but actually pretty advanced stuff.
sivason How do you know that you have astral projected than just created another lucid dream? I know the vibration stuff but do you actually feel that when your already in a lucid dream and go to astral projection.
I am sure what Gab says about vibrations is true, but I do not feel any vibrations myself. I suppose there is little proof, even too myself, that I actually go to astral realms, but I am convinced.
The qualities of the experience can be different, but they can be very much LD like. Sometimes I think I am having a normal LD and only realize after that it was obviously taking place in a stabilzed astral realm.
The mass majority of astral areas are a swirl of choas. I think it is called a malstrom or flux. It is pretty obvious when you are in a zone like that. You feel as if swirling currents are tugging on you and the visual stuff swirls about. Your mind can create images in the swirls, that may or may not be based on things in the area, or just responding to your mind.
Also, stabilized shells or islands exist that are created to house entities. The nature of each 'realm' will very based oon why it was created. Some of these areas are much more stable than a normal LD enviroment, having permanant features and laws of physics. In these areas you may have severly dampened control.
In astral areas, what ever they are you may run into enties ranging from weird animals to highly intelligent beings, maybe even god-like beings.
In the end, I am convinced because the rules and areas have not changed in the 20ish years I have worked with AP. I can not convince anyone, but myself, I am convinced. I have had teachers who have stayed the same more or less over years and dozens of interactions. The consistant rules and personalities I run into are just to stable for it to be entirely just dreams.
That is pretty cool lol.Quote:
Also, stabilized shells or islands exist that are created to house entities.
One last question right now, Have you tried changing something and cannot because apparently in AP you cant?
Yes. In the most stable area I am familiar with, there is a large city and it is extreamly stable. One example is that it has real gravity. No one there flys around much. They skate along the ground if they are in a hurry. They also use some form of vehicle. I have never opperated one of them, but have ridden inside some. My brain will fill in the pictures with images familiar to me. When I am allowed near one of the vbehicles, my brain imposes the image of a car or train. If my world had only wagons, then I would probably see it as a wagon. I could not make the vehiclee disappear, could not move through the vehicle and so on, because it has a real aspect of its own.
In this area I can levitate or fly, but it takes so much energy that I can only stay air borne for 30 seconds or so, no matter my mind set. In normal LDs I am ultra-masterful when it comes to flying, but never in that city.
You can change some things in AP. In the chaos you can create and change things, but everything swirls around (chaos), and in stabilized areas you may be able to, or not depending. say one of my teachers arrives in one of the vehicles to take me somewhere. In that case I could make it appear as a car, a bus, a wagon, but I could in no way move it with TK,, make it dissapear, or make it not be a vehicle of some sort.
I thought AP of what i heard is spiritual and real, You would sperate from physical to spirit. But i think it is just conscious deep within.
Things in AP can be disembodied. It is in a sense your spirit traveling, but I think astral stuff is only spiritual if you attempt to get that out of it. The astral is not by itself good or spiritual, it is more like the ocean, it just is. Wicked and stupid things exist in places, and wonderful spiritual things can exist to. I am not sure how much spiritual/goodness based stuff I have learned fromit or the few who have taught me while there. I have learned amazing things about energy and controling my mind, which have helped unbelievably with lucid dreaming and meditations.
I am on a spiritual path and serve in the idea and name of kindness and goodness, but that is not the nature of the astral in general. Learning AP is just a skill, not a ticket to enlightment.
Sivason, what is the purpose of the city/s you describing? Who lives there?
Well, the first thing i need to make clear iis that I can not be sure I am interprating everything right. It is so strange for me, compared to normal earthly life, that I am kind of like a person in a strange country who does not speak the langue.I imagine it is pretty foolish to think you can truely understand and be certain of starnge things like this. With that said, here is how I understand it.
The general nature of the astral is much like the ocean, swirling and moving in currents, and subject to storms. In that setting various forms of conciousness have evolved. There are huge problems with the natural setting. The place is over run with random creatures, again like the ocean, some are big some are aggressive, some are leach like. Anything you create will be ruined before long from the currents. A place the more intelligent beings CAN live, but not a very nice place to live.
Some of the entities (native or not?) can create barriers that create stabile areas that are not subject to currents and chaos. They can also to some degree keep out the random leech like creatures and what not. A very powerful (god like) being can create such a large and stabile area, that it will shelter many other intelligent beings inside its area. The being that is "hosting" the safety and protection from the storm, gets to dictate what the laws and details of the reality will be.
I do not know anything about species of beings, or anything like that. I know that in the large city I have had hundreds of experiences, so I am pretty familiar with that one realm, and I can describe a couple things. It is dome like and maybe the equivelent of 3 miles from edge to edge. All the main features are always in the same place. The being that maintains it, is not comprehensable to me. On two occassions I saw it as a hindu god of massive scale in the top of the dome wreathed in rain clouds, and it was too much for me to deal with. I was dumb struck in awe, so to say.
What ever it is has allowed many entities to dwell there, along with any types of animals. It has a cathedral, a gaming center (casino?), university, preforming arts center, water ways, and a park. It also has housing. I can not tell you how something so stable exists, but there it is. I only know the story of one being who lives there. To tell the truth I am barey tolerated by most of them. I have been given access to the city, but am not liked by many inhabitants. So anyways, the one who explained his situation to me is a buddhist monk who went there after his last body died. He is on vacation?? from earthly life, and has been there for 40+ years. So at the very least, the inhabitants can be species native to the astral, or disembodied monks.
I will stop there to avoid rambling.
That is really cool in a weird way. Do you have a guide? Many people i hear when they get out of their body someone is there like a guide. Do you have that silver rope attached too you to? Have you ever be attacked? Sorry for all the questions its just something i'm interested in.
I did my first AP stuff in 1985 with no guide and ended up pretty frightened and weirded out. I was eventually able to attract the attention of a dream guide from the astral city, who trained me for years before I was allowed to enter it. The first years were all in tiny enviroments where I could not run amuck.
There is in a sense avery real silver cord, but I do not see it when I am in the astral. It is not like a visable rope or anything. The main portion of your spirit IS still inside your sleeping body, but it projects the awareness into other realms. The cord is the ever present connection to your body. When there you must travel to arrive any where els in that realm, but if someone shakes your body, or say, your alarm goes off, you are yanked by that conection immediatly back to the body. So, yes a thing like the 'silver cord' does exist, but it is not a thing trailing aroundd behind you like an astrnauts life line. I am not sure it has existance in the astral, it connects directly back to your body and has no need to stretch. Maybe it is more like a radio signal, where you can be connected, but move around freely without stretching anything behind you.
I have been attacked, but no matter the out come, it does not seem to effect my waking life. It is rare inside a stabilized area to be attacked, and if you are it may be just bullying stuff. Outside an area you can be attacked, but if you can not get away or repell the thing, eventually you will just return to your body, frightened but whole.
Can I suggest that Sivason "knows" what he is saying is saying happened through an act of faith? Since there is no way to prove these AP experiences, even to yourself, you must choose to believe that you actually went somewhere, rather than simply (or fairly complexly) dreamed that place.Quote:
sivason How do you know that you have astral projected than just created another lucid dream?
This is not a bad thing at all, and such faith both opens your mind to great new things and helps you better experience it all, should it in the end be true. If I were making these posts, I think I would take care to remind people that these are things I am sure about, but that there is a chance that no one else will ever experience them, or anything like them, because this city might just be the product of my own vivid imagination imagination.
You don't need a guide to explore your own, or any "astral" universe. To depend on someone else is to sacrifice personal strength, will, and imagination. Trust yourself, and don't look to someone else to tell you where everything is or what it means; your experience will only be diminished by doing so. If you need to "invent" a guide to put your adventures into perspective, that's fine -- just remember that the guide came from you, and not the aether.Quote:
Do you have a guide? Many people i hear when they get out of their body someone is there like a guide. Do you have that silver rope attached too you to? Have you ever be attacked?
There is no silver rope, period. That was a woefully misinterpreted metaphor from -- I think -- Hindu mysticism. Again, if you must have a silver rope to make the experience work for you, then do so; just remember that the rope is your own invention, and can be cut whenever you want it to be cut. Be assured that he connection between your soul, body, and mind will remain sound no matter how "far" you venture from your sleeping body; that is simply our nature.
Finally, I think Sivason will agree with this if nothing else I just said: "attacks" really do not happen in mystical experiences and realms. AP and advanced LD'ing are spiritual explorations, not video games. There are no violent beings lurking on the astral planes waiting to get you, and any violence you experience will be the result of your own expectations, not the actions of some nefarious external attacker. Try not to believe all the crap you read on these forums.
^^ Oops! Just read your last post, Sivason, and it looks like you won't even agree with my last bit about attacks! ;)
That's funny, I got a bit of a smile out that contrast.
I agree that the only word i can use is "faith" as it is possable that the human mind could create extreamly elaborate self-deceptions. I leave it open to that possability in conversation, but am leaning 99+% towards it being real.
As far as attacks go, it is a matter of my post about AP not being a ticket to enlightment. It is a ticket to a poorly understood aspect of the universe. My own take on my experience is that the things there are as veried as they are here. Some are nice and kind, and others are animal like, while some are just creepy.
I know my experiences sound very fantastic, and that makes them sound unbelievable. I am just sharing my own poor understanding of what i have seen and done.
I also think there are spiritual alternative realities that could be explored free of external enties and bad things, but I can only describe my first hand experience, which as you can see is weird as hell.
sivason, i have one question for you, how do you get the the stable areas? what do you focus on, and what do you feel when attempting to go? and, no, i am not going to debate whether or not your AP experiences are real, i know they are.
Truely I suck at it! My best bet it to be brought there by one of the few enties I met through knowing my first dream guide.
Prior to meeting her the reason I got freaked out and stopped until I met her, was that I just ended up in the swirling chaos and could tell sometimes that other beings had taken a close look at me. I did not understand what they were, I could not do much of intrest as I was basically lost at sea. I went through the whole drawn out process of being chosen by a dream guide. To tell you the truth, she was harsh and scary, and ran me around like a strict parent for years.
After I had developed my LD control and skill and self control enough, I was introduced to this city. I have pretty pathetic control over getting there. It has something to do with the vibrational stuff Gab mentions. Maybe it is like being on the same frequency. It also involves a process of aligning yourself with the direction of paralell forces, kind of like slipping between the bars of a jail cell.
The truth is I have a hell of a time figuring any of it out with out one of them helping me, so I can not explain much.
It is only in the last five years that they have tried to teach me how to navigate in the chaos to travel between stabile areas. One very near by is more like a castle keep setting. None of the entities there seem very good at controlling things. The other surface is not hard to pass through. One time they had me help shoo-way some animals that where trying to get in. So that one other location is the only travelling too a stabile zone I have accomplished.
I will try to relate the process, but am sure to be vague, as I am no astral master, just a lucky student. To leave the city there are a few areas where the energy creating the barrier can be navigated. that is changing your energy to be in tune with the opening. It only allows passage at a slanted angle. You loose the structure of you dream body (?astral manifestation of your body) as you pass through it. Nothing like that is needed to enter the much smaller zone, to enter it you can just use the pass through walls skill learned in LDing.
To find anything you can not hold yourself stationary like we do in life. The area outside swirls in eddies and currents. I barely understand this, but I must feel the primary direction of the eddy or current and allow it to swirl me with it. Somehow, only when you are not fighting to keep prespective can you see the order that does exist and dictates where a stabilized zone might be constructed. The two zones are very close together, like they are in orbit or something, so I do not know how hard it would be if travelling randomly to find anything.
Movement in the chaos is accomplished by clear intent. You do it pretty much like you can levitate around in an LD, the two skills seem to work the same. So my advice from my limited understanding is that if you project randomly you should not struggle against the swirls, you should allow them to swirl you with them. Then you can understand what you are seeing. I would look for areas that look like eddies in the larger currents, and see if anything appears at the center. If so, move to it using the levitation LD skill. I have know clue what you may find, or if they will let you in.
Well thank you for answering full detail. This just makes me want to AP Faster lol. never done it but trying ;)
I've read in two different books that in a lucid dream you can tell yourself to return to the physical body and have an obe. Anyone else believe this? I think I've done it once but I'm not sure if it was a dream or not.
Considering how easy it is to astrally project yourself when your in any state (awake or asleep) I would say that you are already AP'ing when your interacting with others in dreams. Most people aren't even aware that they are doing it when they're awake, let alone asleep. Welcome to the Lucid Dreaming site, where most people are, and strive to reach farther.