Printable View
i have not done dmt but i have reserched it lots and know alot about it, and i have had several lucid dreams and 2 OBEs.
i was wondering how similar DMT and Astral projection are. they are both lucid states, both controlled somewhat by thought, both very psychedelic, and both allegedly taking you to another realm or dimension.
however i do understand they are far differant in some ways to.
so how similar do you think they are?
has someone on here done both?
Um, isn't DMT a chemical, and AP a mystical experience?
I'm not sure I understand; are you asking whether a DMT-fueled LD is the same as an AP?
You should smoke some DMT and report back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
yes dmt is a chemical, but it induces a mystical experience. so yes i am talking about the experience you have when you smoke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
i will oneday. no need to rush though, it will happen when it happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmind
I read somewhere that a small amount of DMT is released naturally inside your brain when you dream. Does anyone have any evidence that supports or denies that theory?
Ive not personally had the pleasure of a dmt trip, but based on trip reports and my own experiences with other psychedelics, i would have to say the two experiences are probably very different. Yes you are "lucid" but you are in a highly different mind state. I cant really explain how, theres too much to say. All i can say is try dmt or another psychedelic (lsd, shrooms, mescaline, doi, 2c-e, etc.) yourself, youll know what i mean.
it is speculated that DMT is released when you are born, when you die and when you dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudlessSky
i have also heard there is some more reason to this, apparantly DMT is released in your cerebral fluid when you are in rem, or more when you are in rem. and rem of course is when most dreaming is happening.
i understand what you are saying, however from the research i have done it seems that you are in a completely normal mind state when you are doing DMT. normal being not high in anyway. so if you imagine you now sitting there not high or anything at all, exept you are experiencing all these things that DMT shows you. im pretty sure this is how terence mckenna describes it.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop
"DMT concentrates in the human cerebrospinal fluid on a 24 hour cycle and it reaches its peak between 3 and 4 am in most people and that's when deep REM sleep is happening." Terence mckenna
also the memory of a DMT trip very quickly fades, just like dreams.
So:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
Quote:
"DMT concentrates in the human cerebrospinal fluid on a 24 hour cycle and it reaches its peak between 3 and 4 am in most people and that's when deep REM sleep is happening." Terence mckenna
From all this I'm led to believe that the release of DMT is pretty much a daily event for all people -- just another natural chemical that, in its case, helps us through the night. Not too mystical, I think, almost mundane. And definitely not in the AP category of experience, since AP is extremely unusual (as far as we know).Quote:
also the memory of a DMT trip very quickly fades, just like dreams.
But:
This bit is very interesting. On the face of it DMT is still portrayed in the same mundane terms as the other posts, but let's assume that we're talking about taking extremely high, non-natural, doses of DMT. If it can indeed alter your your state of consciousness without including a mind-numbing (and awareness-robbing) "high," then all that mundanity (is that even a word?) might make it a powerful substance indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
Why? Because the biggest problem with transcendental experiences is that we are generally unable to understand them as they are happening (because of things like having no metaphoric base from which to draw to describe the experience, but that doesn't matter right now). And the biggest problem with drugs, especially hallucinogenics, is that they addle the mind and prevent any chance of understanding the experience. "Natural" transcendental experiences, like advanced LD'ing and AP, allow the waking mind to be present during the event, giving us the best opportunity to try to understand (and learn from) what is going on. If the mind is as clear on a DMT "trip," then DMT use might indeed be similar to AP.
I think I get it now. Cool.
interesting, thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
yess!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
however this doestn not mean you will not be overwelmed and confused from the things you see. and people say it feels like there is so much information out there in DMT hyperspace, but they only have room for a small amount of it.
i realy do wish more reserch would be done on this, but the laws just ruin it.
^^ Agreed.
Also, I think it isn't only the laws, but the disinterest of the scientific and, yes, mystic communities in furthering the potentials of things they did not discover, define, or invent themselves. Sad.
But, if DMT has real potential, that potential will eventially be realized in ways that can be understood and shared. Let's just hope that happens in our lifetimes! In the meantime we can only imagine, independently explore, and hope for the best... and of course express curiousity about the hints that Nature has already provided us with the means to do things like AP; we just gotta find 'em.
the people who do do DMT seem to be realy keen to try and bring back as much information as they can and further understanding in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
for anyone who is interested there is a real good book called "DMT: The spirit molecule", its about a scientific study of DMT on humans. all the info is in there, even trip reports.
also DMT is not phisicaly dangerous, but there is of course a mental risk, wich is sadly magnified by it being illegal. if it was legal there would be essentially no risk.
Agreed. I've experienced THC and LSD and I can say that lucid dreaming is nothing like LSD, however it is somewhat similar to THC. In fact, I would say that hypnagogia (the stuff that happens right before entering the dream in a WILD attempt) is almost identical to a THC trip. I actually suspect that endocannabinoids play an important role in the 'high' of dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop
Since DMT is in the family of 5-ht2a receptor agonists, it's reasonable to expect its high to be similar to acid, mushrooms, peyote, etc. In other words, not at all like lucid dreaming.
i dont think this is very good grounds to make this assumption. all of these (acid, mashrooms, dmt e.c.t) are extremely different, so to assume DMT is like them doesnt seem right.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmind
i think a better grounds for assuming what DMT is like compared to Astral projection or lucid dreaming when you have not yet done it is to look at other peoples trip reports. witch there are lots of.
and i am more comparing it with astal projection because in a lucid dream ore OBE you are generaly in this dimension and just doing normal things, although you can do other things, but you have to go out and make them happen kinda. but in an astral projection you are in a completely differant dimension with other beings and things, just like DMT.
No they're not. I can tell you from personal experience that LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline are all pretty similar. DMT is clearly more powerful when smoked, but there's no way it's not just a more powerful serotonergic trip. Otherwise, you might as well throw all modern pharmacology out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwer
Now, THC is quite different and it's way more similar to lucid dreaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmind
I hate to bring up an old thread but this is simply not true. Yes in sub-breakthrough doses the experiences can be very similar, but these plants at spiritual or breakthrough doses (and even lsd to an extent) have their own personality and an experience as strong as dmt. Even a long time user of "regular" or recreational doses of the psychedelics has no idea what's in store for them when they fully step through the portal
i have experienced thc, lsd, mushrooms, aswell as smoked dmt. multiple times, from my experience they are very very different, in physical & experienced effects. they are similar, they all cause hallucinations, but tht does not mean they are the same. chemicals taught us you can even just make a analog & can have some drastic differences. the DMT: spirit molecule i believe admitts good doses of DMT is naturally released during REM & other states aswell. lucid dreaming is different than smoked DMT too, when you dream its more of a natural process than you lighting up a bowl & there could be other chemicals and reactions going on. if you dont "breakthrough" your in your body still & still have an intense experience, but because your in your body happily tripping its a bit different than a dream, a dream is more of a "breakthrough" type of experience. so far, i have only pushed smoked dmt to the point of breakthrough but i fought it off. i know people who have broken through multiple times though, they have told me a long range of different experiences, most pretty alike a lucid dream, dream characters, be'ing lectured by said dream characters, many symbols. sometimes its like astral projection, i havnt done AP yet but those around me who have smoked dmt AP'd they said they could still hear what people were saying next to them, although it was quite distorted. this is one of the multiple reasons why set, setting, & a good group of friends is requested for a heavy dmt experience. last note, dmt trips have you forget the experience in the same way dreams do, you must focus or write it down somehow to not let it slip through your fingers. i personally believe dmt is involved in dreams & meditation, but it may not be the only chemical involved.
DMT and T. McKenna, a long history there of wonderful information for a sub culture.
There are strong connections between DMT, birth life and death and DMT is found to be everywhere, and clearly our bodies have used this chemical in the past rather heavily otherwise it may not be as easily absorbed into our system as it is. From memory I think there are rather a few receptors that bind with the DMT chemical showing a rather strong affinity there. Many different thoughts on why that is the case.
Some believe that it is a gateway drug, chemical mystical or not, it is believed to open the mind to a area that we do not explore as deeply as we might. Perhaps they do take you down the same rabbit hole, just different ways of getting to the same destination.
I have experienced ayahuasca, dmt, mushrooms and various other entheogens. Although they sam DMT occurs naturally in the brain and is released during sleep, one could assume the experiences could be similar but they are vastly different. Mushooms contain psilocybin which is almost the same structure as dmt chemically and does feel quite similar to the other compounds previously mentioned, but I find that the experiences they all induce are so much more intense and complex than any dream situation I have been in. I certainly believe the places I have visited and the beings I have experienced on these compounds are very real and very intense, it certainly feels as though it opens a gateway to another realm or level of conciousness that we cannot access in daily life. I feel that dreams give us much gentler glimpses into these realms. I also should finish by saying that these entheogens should be treated with the upmost respect and are not something to be playing around with. the energetic composition of these ancient plants should be highly regarded and used with extreme caution and under the supervision of someone experienced.
As I see it, a more fundamental limitation on transcendent experiences is we lack the intellectual, emotional, moral, and spiritual development to support the impact of the experience. Lack of lucidity and lack of awareness in the experience is a benefit, because what gets through is in accordance with who you are and where you're at, or where you are ready to move to. If you drive your lucidity and the scope of your awareness beyond that, you learn things which you can not know and feel in their true context. What you get is potent, but is a caricature of what you're after. And as a caricature it doesn't satisfy, you need more. Living can bring things back into balance I think, but it takes a very long time, often more time than you have as an individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
When perusing the posts at DMT sites, what I see is unusual strength of awareness of the complexity and vastness and interconnectedness of things. Also, a remarkable lack of compassion, and boredom with and indifference to the work of life. Many of us started life with such psychological burdens, and it does not seem to me that the DMT use heals it, based on what I hear and feel from people who have tried that approach. And this makes sense based on my own transcendent experiences, and the difficulty I've had integrating them into my being in a healthy way.