Looking for people that are Advance Dream Controllers for simple experiment

I'm looking for people which I would consider to be Advanced or Expert Level in Controlling their dreams. I've never met anyone else who had the control other than myself to try the experiment. Now that I have found this site maybe it is possible to try it. Please don't apply unless you are at the level I'm seeking.

I've always wondered if my dreams were only in my mind or something more.

Here is my simple experiment:

1) Have 2 or more Advanced Dream Controllers try to connect their dreams and see if it can be done. It shouldn't make a difference how far apart they are physically. Just as long at they both try it on the same night and approximate time.

2) I would pass on to the other person a piece of information only in the dream. If the other person can tell me what I revealed I would consider it a success.

This would show if dreams are just totally independent of each other and only in the persons mind or something more.

Maybe I'm crazy but I have always wondered. Especially since I dream now and then when I am just letting the dream go and take it's own path without too much interruption from me. I sometimes dream of things that will happen at some future date. I don't know what to think about it. My wife even more. Because I will tell her in the morning and when they come to pass she used to kind of get freaked out about it. Now we just try to see if they will come true or not. Kind of fun in a way.

So are dreams just dreams or something more?

Who is up for this that is at the level I'm looking for???

Check out some dream sharing threads here in Beyond dreaming.

*Moved to beyond dreaming

There has to be someone here that is at the Dream Control Level I'm looking for??? I can't be the only one.

From my experience dream control and dream sharing aren't that closely related. I'd say my control is pretty good (nearly five years of LD experience), but I haven't had many shared dreams. Maybe a handful out of 2 years. I'm guessing the two people would have to already share dreams on a regular basis to get any sort of results.

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Originally Posted by Auron

From my experience dream control and dream sharing aren't that closely related. I'd say my control is pretty good (nearly five years of LD experience), but I haven't had many shared dreams. Maybe a handful out of 2 years. I'm guessing the two people would have to already share dreams on a regular basis to get any sort of results.

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I've been "Lucid Dreaming" as far back as I can remember. I've been using "Dream Control" for over 30 years. I've had some experience where it seems like I was connected with someone else. But I couldn't confirm it because the other person(s) doesn't have the recall or control I posses after the dream is over. So I always wonder if it is possible.

And if you find this gifted person, and pass some form of information.
What then ?

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

And if you find this gifted person, and pass some form of information.
What then ?

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Well if it worked it would make sense to try pass information the other way for the next test and move on from there.

I used to have full control of dreams, which was not a learned skill.
From an early age I could blow up tanks, and use telekenesis.
Passing through walls, and flying was also possible.
If I mentioned this to any friends, I was looked down on. ( No internet in the 70s )
The novelty took a good 35 years to wear off, and dreams were no longer appealing.
Then I came up with the idea of forgetting my gift, or trying to let a dream run its course.
Much more interesting when you are not in control.
Then I found this site, and posed a basic question, which got some replies, but all fell below expectations.

Have to go now, as I have to cook food for kids.
Will try to reply with a fuller answer later in the week.
This reply is a bit rushed.
Cheers,
Phil

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I used to have full control of dreams, which was not a learned skill.
From an early age I could blow up tanks, and use telekenesis.
Passing through walls, and flying was also possible.
If I mentioned this to any friends, I was looked down on. ( No internet in the 70s )
The novelty took a good 35 years to wear off, and dreams were no longer appealing.
Then I came up with the idea of forgetting my gift, or trying to let a dream run its course.
Much more interesting when you are not in control.
Then I found this site, and posed a basic question, which got some replies, but all fell below expectations.

Have to go now, as I have to cook food for kids.
Will try to reply with a fuller answer later in the week.
This reply is a bit rushed.
Cheers,
Phil

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Phil,

You dreaming parallels my own. I too started to get a little bored because I was in complete control all the time. So I started to do what I called "Free Dreaming". I would let the dream follow its own natural course. Sometimes I would interfere a little but most of the time I would just let it go where ever it led me. Most of the time looking at the dream from a 3rd persons point of view. I found out a lot about myself this way.

Now I have a crazy question since your dreaming is so similar to my own. When you are free dreaming, have you dreamed of things that came true later? I do once in awhile. I thought it was a coincidence at first. But I keep dreaming things that come true. Not everything does.... But you know what I mean.

Please reply back. I think I finally found someone that I can talk to about this that is at my same dream level.

For Phil.

Have you ever tried finding someone else while dreaming? I don't mean a person who has agreed beforehand, I mean someone that you know. Your wife sounds like the perfect choice because she is aware of your gift and she would be easiest to obtain the information from afterward. If I had your level of lucidity, I would search for people I knew in waking life and try to give them info they could then relate back to me later. Memory would be a problem for some, which is why I ask if you've tried it already. If this were possible, then it is conceivable that you could induce lucidity in another person. This would probably be your best bet in having them retain the memory. I've always wondered about this.

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Originally Posted by PlanesWalker

For Phil.

Have you ever tried finding someone else while dreaming? I don't mean a person who has agreed beforehand, I mean someone that you know. Your wife sounds like the perfect choice because she is aware of your gift and she would be easiest to obtain the information from afterward. If I had your level of lucidity, I would search for people I knew in waking life and try to give them info they could then relate back to me later. Memory would be a problem for some, which is why I ask if you've tried it already. If this were possible, then it is conceivable that you could induce lucidity in another person. This would probably be your best bet in having them retain the memory. I've always wondered about this.

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I think you mean this for me. I've tried with my wife. But she is a novice at best and her recollection of dreams is not that great. I can see her in a dream. But at least in my opinion we are not connecting. I'm only seeing a representation of her in my mind.

She said she dreams about me once in a while but I know it is not me because I would have remembered the dream she is describing and I don't. Kind of frustrating. But who knows, maybe it is not possible in the end. Maybe everybody just has there own dream world in their mind.

Oh yes, I did mean you. So your wife is the only one you've tried to contact without prior knowledge that you would do so?

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Originally Posted by PlanesWalker

Oh yes, I did mean you. So your wife is the only one you've tried to contact without prior knowledge that you would do so?

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Well, I tried with another coworker about a year ago that said she understood what I was talking about. It didn't work.

I tried to connect to others without telling them. Yet again, I see and interact with them. But it seems like they are only a representation of them in my mind.

Have you ever tried and what was the outcome?

I don't have the amount of control necessary to search for others. I can only summon DCs that appear identical to them. I hold on to the idea that it is possible though.

Dream one
I am in a vehicle travelling along a country road.
The road bends to the right. Trees line both sides.
A car has a head on collision with the vehicle I am in.
Suddenly I am in another vehicle passing by.
I wake up, and go to my PC. The news on the internet has a head on collision happening 80 miles from me.
I check its location on Google Earth, and it is exactly as I remember from the dream.

Dream 2
I am in a high rise apartment.
A man is not being very nice to me. He looks scared.
He puts me in a bath on the balcony. At last I can relax
Very strange, as the bath is full of sand.
I wake up and tell my wife the story.
A few weeks later I find a woman has been murdered, and her body put in a bath, on a balcony.
Not a good memory to have.

Dream 3 - Train accident in india
Dream 4 - Flooding
Dream 5 - Events happening, and then coming true in my own life years later.
Dream 7 - .......................................
Dream 8
"
etc, etc

These dreams are not controlled by me in any way, but seem almost real.
If I dream of a disaster, and it comes true, what is the point of the dream?
I can not influence its outcome.
It is a sad situation to be in, seeing death, but not being able to help anyone.
Tell people, and they think you are a nut.
I keep quiet about these things, and even on here I have tried to restrict what I say.
There are several sayings that I now go by.
" Ignorance is bliss "
" Careful what you wish for "
The path you are trying to follow may not have the desired outcome.

Phil

Perhaps you are being shown there is something more to dreams.

There is a lot more to dreams than some people can even realise.
To pass information in a dream, you must understand a basic concept.

If I contact you in a dream, and show you an ACTION MAN doll. To me it is just a doll which brings back memories of childhood.
The information received by you, may not even resemble a doll.
If you have a relative that died in a war, you may see death and misery.
You may see your favourite toy from childhood.
Association is the key to what is experienced in a dream state.
The information can only go from one person with full control over their dreams and emotions to another of same training.
First think of all the problems that can, and do occur, then think of a way to bypass them.
With 1000s members on here I am sure an effective experiment can be conceived.

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

These dreams are not controlled by me in any way, but seem almost real.
If I dream of a disaster, and it comes true, what is the point of the dream?
I can not influence its outcome.
It is a sad situation to be in, seeing death, but not being able to help anyone.
Tell people, and they think you are a nut.
I keep quiet about these things, and even on here I have tried to restrict what I say.
There are several sayings that I now go by.
" Ignorance is bliss "
" Careful what you wish for "
The path you are trying to follow may not have the desired outcome.

Phil

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Phil,

I know exactly what you mean. I share things with my wife only. In the beginning she just humored me. But now she wants to know because so many things have come true. Mine are a mix of things. Good and Bad. I try to pay attention to the ones that personally affect me and my family.

I remember seeing my wedding and mom was sitting there alone without my dad years and years ago. My dad died 4 months before my wedding of pancreatic cancer they had only found 3 months before. I had the wedding dream years before this. If I had more details on why my dad was not at the wedding. I might have been able to get him to the doctor before it was in the final stage and it was too late.

I've also used it to predict when it is time to switch companies for my wife and myself. We currently work right next to each other in two different buildings for two different companies with only fountain between us. We carpool together to work most of the time. We both switched companies about 1 month apart over a year ago based on knowing what companies to apply at. We both got hired right away at each company and both got about 50% salary increase. I thought that was so weird.

It turned out for the better. Now my wife drives a BMW and I drive a Mercedes with the extra money. I always say we now have a mixed marriage because of the cars. LOL

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Dream one

These dreams are not controlled by me in any way, but seem almost real.
If I dream of a disaster, and it comes true, what is the point of the dream?
I can not influence its outcome.
It is a sad situation to be in, seeing death, but not being able to help anyone.
Tell people, and they think you are a nut.
I keep quiet about these things, and even on here I have tried to restrict what I say.
There are several sayings that I now go by.
" Ignorance is bliss "
" Careful what you wish for "
The path you are trying to follow may not have the desired outcome.

Phil

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I know where you're coming from Phil. The only people that know about me doing any of this kind of stuff are my closest friends (not even my family know about this) and I've been trying to restrict what I say about this kind of stuff out of fear that I'd be judged because of it.

Imagine thinking of a complicated image in a dream.
The exact workings of a clock for example.
The image is passed flawlessly to me, and I draw the very same image, down to the smallest detail.
Who would be interested ?
The public ?
Friends, and family ?
Dream forum members ?
All very harmless.
Now what if you/me lived in a country that was not friendly with the UK, or USA
Then who would be interested ?
We would both be laughed at by most, but there is always someone out there who sees a profit, or a threat.
Governments - Religous organisations - Military - Businessmen
There would soon be someone knocking on the door.

Then again there are so many crazy people, claiming so many bizzare things, we may just slip under the net.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Imagine thinking of a complicated image in a dream.
The exact workings of a clock for example.
The image is passed flawlessly to me, and I draw the very same image, down to the smallest detail.
Who would be interested ?
The public ?
Friends, and family ?
Dream forum members ?
All very harmless.
Now what if you/me lived in a country that was not friendly with the UK, or USA
Then who would be interested ?
We would both be laughed at by most, but there is always someone out there who sees a profit, or a threat.
Governments - Religous organisations - Military - Businessmen
There would soon be someone knocking on the door.

Then again there are so many crazy people, claiming so many bizzare things, we may just slip under the net.

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Yes, I've read some strange claims on here as well. I have to take things I read here with a grain of salt. I know what I can do and have seen in my own dreams. That is about all I have to base others on. Unlike most of the others I have been doing LD & DC for over 35 years now about every night. I don't know if I can take it any further or I have just topped out on what a person can do in a dream. Maybe that is why I was wondering if connecting 2 people in a dream with some kind of proof was possible?

I have a picture on my PC, which can not be mistaken for anything else.
If seen by an Indian they would give the same name as an Australian.
The chances of it being mistaken for anything other than what it is, are very unlikely.
I am off to bed, and will meditate before sleeping, and think of nothing else.
During sleep, I will attempt to bring the picture with me into my dream.
Have a sleep yourself, and see if you can pick up on the picture.

This is open to anyone who dreams.
I will not reveal the image to anyone, unless reported correctly.
Cheers,
Phil

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Originally Posted by EricinLA

I don't know if I can take it any further or I have just topped out on what a person can do in a dream. Maybe that is why I was wondering if connecting 2 people in a dream with some kind of proof was possible?

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I think a difficulty here is that there's a tradeoff between shared experience and control. I'm terrible at control, simplistically speaking, but pretty much all of my dreams are shared in some sense now. People's dream abilities differ in a lot of other ways, there are a lot of different kinds of control and a lot of different ways that a person can be aware. If you were to define what shared dreaming is before you find out what it is to other people, and insist that it has to be that way, then I think you're unlikely to get very far. But if you're open to learning about what other people experience, even if they're not lucid in quite the same way you are, then you can get some objective demonstration. Putting something together that would stand up as a clinical trial type study would be pretty hard though. I think its possible, but it would have to be set up in a way that's a bit different from how people usually expect such experiments to be set up, and there wouldn't be any guarantee of success.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I have a picture on my PC, which can not be mistaken for anything else.
If seen by an Indian they would give the same name as an Australian.
The chances of it being mistaken for anything other than what it is, are very unlikely.
I am off to bed, and will meditate before sleeping, and think of nothing else.
During sleep, I will attempt to bring the picture with me into my dream.
Have a sleep yourself, and see if you can pick up on the picture.

This is open to anyone who dreams.
I will not reveal the image to anyone, unless reported correctly.
Cheers,
Phil

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I tried last night after I read your comment. But nothing. I go to bed around 10pm Los Angeles time. What the time you go to bed and wake up? Maybe weren't eve asleep at the same time because of the difference in time zones?

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Originally Posted by EricinLA

Maybe weren't eve asleep at the same time because of the difference in time zones?

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For me, its not necessary to be asleep at the same time for this sort of thing, it doesn't work that way. The most likely time for me to get a vision of the object would have been the night before he posted the message.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I have a picture on my PC, which can not be mistaken for anything else.

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I dreamed of a needle the night before last which I think is related to someone who posts on this site. But I don't have any way of connecting that to you and your experiment since I don't know you.

I go to bed at roughly midnight GMT
Not sure how far apart the times are.
Perhaps some helpful member could enlighten me.

^ doesn't matter - you don't both need to be alseep at the same time for it to work. It seems to function through telepathy and it doesn't matter if one person is awake at the time - it can cause them to dream a similar dream when they do get to sleep.

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I have a picture on my PC, which can not be mistaken for anything else.

If seen by an Indian they would give the same name as an Australian.

The chances of it being mistaken for anything other than what it is, are very unlikely.

I am off to bed, and will meditate before sleeping, and think of nothing else.
During sleep, I will attempt to bring the picture with me into my dream.

Have a sleep yourself, and see if you can pick up on the picture.

This is open to anyone who dreams.

I will not reveal the image to anyone, unless reported correctly.

Cheers,
Phil

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Phil Thank you

It is 11:22am Friday 8-March-2013 here in Adelaide, South Australia.

I .... will ... actually Phil, I need something to focus on, like a "number code" or a picture or something. Anything will do.

I will record any remembered dreams in my DJ here on DV. I will call the entries "1-Phil" "2-Phil" etc.

I have now started broadcasting the image at almost every opportunity.
I try to think of nothing else while meditating.
If I see the image during the day, I visualise, then send out a thought to members on here.
I hold the image in my mind before falling asleep on a night time.
I try to send the image to members during sleep.
Will keep doing this until members lose interest.

P.S. to debrajane
This thread was started by EricinLA, so maybe you should name the entries after him.

Cheers,
Phil

Phil

I recon that a hundred different (individual) participants could dream even 10 dreams each and every dream (all one thousand dreams) could reveal the picture on your computer screen.

Because

us humans have sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, balance. And a multitude of emotions and memories for "Our Dreaming Mind" to draw from, to interpret that image on your computer screen.

Here is my little corner of "Our DreamingMind's" attempt to "decode" what it picked up from your computer screen.

Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - debrajane - Dream Journals

I will go again and again till the "reveal".

I love, love, love love, this kind of simple dream game.


Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - debrajane - Dream Journals

Just a quick aside:

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Originally Posted by Darkmatters

^ doesn't matter - you don't both need to be asleep at the same time for it to work. It seems to function through telepathy and it doesn't matter if one person is awake at the time - it can cause them to dream a similar dream when they do get to sleep.

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Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

For me, its not necessary to be asleep at the same time for this sort of thing, it doesn't work that way. The most likely time for me to get a vision of the object would have been the night before he posted the message.

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We are trying to connect our dreams. That was the whole point of the experiment. The transfer of some sort of verifiable information was just proof beyond that we said we did it. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I go to bed at roughly midnight GMT
Not sure how far apart the times are.
Perhaps some helpful member could enlighten me.

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Phil,

I just looked it up. We are 8 hours apart depending on Day Light Savings Time. When it is 12 noon for me. It is 8pm for you. Also the Los Angeles area is about to spring ahead 1 hour this weekend for the Day Light Savings. Kind of makes it hard since I don't go to bed until 10pm and you are most likely awake already since it is 6am your time.

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Originally Posted by EricinLA

We are trying to connect our dreams. That was the whole point of the experiment. The transfer of some sort of verifiable information was just proof beyond that we said we did it. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

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In my dreams, the connection occurs in a way in which the idea of concurrent clock time isn't quite applicable. You might be able to share a dream with someone who is dreaming at the same time as you, but adding the concurrent time requirement just makes it harder. Plus I think it reflects a mistaken expectation of what such sharing is like, which makes it much harder. You have to move your mind to the right place for it to work well, and the "at the same time" thought isn't in that place, so to speak. 'At the same time' would be applicable if you were going to transfer information through electromagnetics or some other wall-clock-time-like medium, but the shared dreaming connection isn't like that. Similarly, you have to relax your lucid control of the dream, because if you're completely in control there's no way for the other person's mind, so to speak. But when you relax that control then you're also less in control of considerations like time, or exactly what is shared. I suggest relaxing everything except whatever the essential aim is, such as sharing information in the dream to prove to yourself that its possible. And even then it may be a lot easier if you try to share something meaningful to you, since a part of your mind that's necessary to the sharing might not care much about proving anything. When I try this with people I typically suggest they focus on a deep personal philosophical question that they want an answer to. Then we get mundane, objective information transferred in the dream also, but used as a metaphorical context for the deeper concern. You have to engage your subconscious in a way that its interested in. Based on my experience anyway. Obviously everybody is a bit different, but presumably these things will at least be similar for different people.

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

In my dreams, the connection occurs in a way in which the idea of concurrent clock time isn't quite applicable. You might be able to share a dream with someone who is dreaming at the same time as you, but adding the concurrent time requirement just makes it harder. Plus I think it reflects a mistaken expectation of what such sharing is like, which makes it much harder. You have to move your mind to the right place for it to work well, and the "at the same time" thought isn't in that place, so to speak.

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I'm confused on what you are saying about being able to connect to someone that is not dreaming at the same time as you. If what you are saying is being done. You can connect to anybody at anytime even if the person is alive in the future or has already died. I'm not trying to get into the standard telepathy either. I just want to connect directly with one other person and share a dream. I guess I'm just trying to get to another level because total LD & DC hasn't been a challenge in a long time. Have you heard of anyone being able to do what I'm talking about and not just saying they did it. I read so many amazing things people say here. I have to take everything with a grain of salt. But I know what I can do, so I think some of things I read are possible.

Sorry that i'm late, but i am a dream control expert, i usually like to make my dreams my way so i make it so, easily, and sometimes do damage if nothing is up to my standards lol. You can read my djs, when someone wants to send me a message, it has to be done sophisticated. I don't tolerate mind games very greatly.

I don't see much difference between shared dreaming and standard telepathy. The interaction is deeper, so to speak, than being awake or asleep, that stuff is just on the surface.

If you want to share a dream like two people standing in the same virtual reality room, which one of you projects the images in the dream? Doing that collaboratively and concurrently sounds pretty hard to me. If one person is projecting and the other person is 'watching', that seems to me to be like receiving impressions and accurately reprojecting the same thing. In which case for me the time element doesn't make much difference any more. Whether anyone is in control well enough to do that in that way I don't know.

I would guess that not everything you read on this site is true, since a lot of people aren't very honest, but I can't point to anything specifically that I don't think is true. I don't believe most of the 'dream plane' stuff - I think people are creating most of that without realizing how subjective it is. But I don't deny that people generally have the experiences that they say they have. Certainly many of the wild claims people make here are true, in my experience, even though its mixed in with assumptions and interpretations that are more doubtful.

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I don't see much difference between shared dreaming and standard telepathy. The interaction is deeper, so to speak, than being awake or asleep, that stuff is just on the surface.

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I know what you are talking about. But I only have that deeper control in my sleep state. It does help me stay very calm in my real life. But I think I can only achieve the connection in my sleeping/dreaming state. It would be considered Delta and/or Gamma brain waves out of the 5 known brain wave levels each person would need. I don't have that deep of control while i'm awake. To attain Gamma brain waves while awake would be really difficult for the best "Dream Controller"

click here for more info ---> Meet Your Brain Waves — Introducing Alpha, Beta, Theta, Delta, AndÂ*Gamma

The best time for me for that type of intuition is right after I wake up. I think the interaction is there all the time, and it influences our thoughts and experiences all day. its just hard to form something of it directly into a mental image except when the mind is relaxed like that.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Just a quick aside:



Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

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Lol well it would be ridiculous for me to start a thread claiming to understand something that I don't - all I know is what I've experienced and it seems to corroborate what shadowofwind and Hathor are saying. It also holds true to what I understand about the subconscious - that it's always there and always active, but the conscious mind is much 'louder' and drowns it out when we're awake, in the same way the sun makes the stars invisible in the daytime. Wow, I just realized this thought connects with my new avatar.. sun and stars out at the same time lol. But anyway, it seems to me that if we do receive telepathic thoughts from each other they would probably come in a form like dreams - a sort of interconnected complex of vague images and feelings and thoughts all tied together loosely. After all this is the language of the subconscious, right? It doesn't deal in concrete logical ideas but in vague intuitions and symbolic images. That's why we need to think about what our dreams mean when we wake up in order to understand them. The conscious and unconscious need a bit of translation to understand each other.

And if this is true (so far it's pretty much common knowledge) then why couldn't two minds connect regardless of if both people are asleep at the time? Your subconscious processes things that you take in consciously during the day - it processes your subtle thoughts and feelings as dreams in symbolic language. So if you're able to connect with somebody telepathically at any time, the thoughts/feelings/images etc would be saved in memory, just like day residue is for instance, and processed in dreams. So it's sort of like if you get an email telepathically and it remains there, waiting until you check your email (dream) - at which point your mind processes it and reviews the images/feelings/thoughts as a dream.

This would also explain why when people share dreams they aren't exactly the same but there are always certain elements shared in both dreams. For instance, maybe one dreams of grimy stinking alleys with homeless people and rain and the other person dreams of New York as it was 100 years ago - they could both be dreaming about New York but each in a way that's meaningful to them personally.

If all this is true then it would explain why people aren't able to connect in lucid dreams with rigid control and why they can't seem to send any logical information - only vague intuitions and feelings etc. I think in order to experience it at all you need to loosen up and give up control. Sharing isn't about control - its about feeling your way and allowing the other person their say as well. Artists of all kinds know this - creation isn't an act of pure will, it's an opening up to intuitions and subtle feelings that you can't feel in the normal waking state - you have to achieve a meditative stillness and calmness. Later of course the knocking out of a product based on your intuition requires will and work - but that's not the art part, that's the work part of artwork.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Just a quick aside:



Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

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Sageous,

This was discussed at length last year by Sivason and others.

But in any case, if there's a kind of dream sharing that you can do that requires to people to be dreaming lucidly at the same time, then have at it: that's more like what Eric in L.A. was looking for than what anyone else has been able to offer so far. Or maybe WakingNomad or someone could offer an alternative approach. All of us are just offering whatever information we have based on our own experience. And as far as I know, for all the people who have showed up for these discussions within the last year or so and tried to offer some kind of relevant dream sharing experience, being lucid at the same moment doesn't matter.

^ Yeah, I also noticed the same thing in a lot of the synchronicities in the IOSDP. I never took part in it myself (hell, I didn't believe in crap like dream sharing! That's just crazy talk! :lol:) but I did read some of their threads now and then, and they realized early on that you don't need to be asleep at the same time. I don't personally think it's time travel or precognition or anything, I already explained my 'mental email' theory, in which it's stored in both people's minds for processing into dream form during sleep.

^^ Understood, Darkmatters, and for some bizarre reason your logic actually makes sense. Never mind.

That said, I have to agree with Shadowofwind in that I also think EricinLA was looking for a more direct exchange... I could be wrong about that, but why recruit expert LD controllers if they're really not needed?

Yeah, if the theory I've been babbling incoherently about is right, then it's a lot easier to exchange feelings etc in dreams rather than conscious thoughts like a number or whatever. You'd have to first try to somehow get that number into your subconscious awareness and associate it with some deeply felt subtle feeling. Then the other person is only going to pick up the feelings/vague intuitions or whatever, and I'm not sure how they could reconstruct something as concrete as a number from it. So the funny thing is - people who are trying to transer things to each other in lucid dreams might actually be transferring all kinds of things and having lots of dream synchrinicities but just not able to do what they're trying to force to happen.

It's sort of like if they've invented the telephone but were trying to invent something that would transmit flashes of light to use as morse code - they keep trying but can't get any light to come out the reciever, but meanwhile they can hear each other and think of that as just a junk side effect that's nothing but static. :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

I could be wrong about that, but why recruit expert LD controllers if they're really not needed?

---

I would presume that if people want to engage in these experiments that involve a good amount of awareness, having good control of your lucid dreams would be a practical basis. It wouldn't be reasonable to have someone who isn't good enough with dream control when lucid, and it reduces the chance with learning any attempts with Beyond Dreaming concepts.

Especially since with the limited knowledge and presumptive "evidence" with shared dreaming, etc., having people who have good control leads towards other favorable traits that are absent from normal dreamers. People with better LD control are usually used to willpower and just sublimating it through thought energy and manifesting whatever it is they want to be in the reality of their dreams. Along with the theory similar to having a e-mail that Darkmatters stated, having people who are proficient in willpower help in learning more about the power of presumptive ambitions. These people know the distinction of dreams and reality, and they know that dreams clearly have potential that simplicity with willpower actually creates results (within their spectrum of reality and maybe another person with the same mentality and beyond).

Most people who are still skeptical with elements of lucid dreaming (dream guides, etc.) and not having basic reasoning that it's from the confines of their minds, they complicate how you're really more suggestive or capable of accessing your sub-c or unconscious' suggestive thoughts and behaviors. It creates mental blocks, and not being able to reduce these mental blocks would make experiments like this pointless without someone who is in a similar mentality as OP.

And another important trait that I'm sure experienced LDrs are aware of is that with this level of control and awareness, I'm sure they've had the idea slip into their minds that they can always learn more about themselves and how they perceive reality. They stop being defeatist in what average joes do with something not researched as much like shared dreaming, and instead of going with people who conform to saying "It's impossible!" or "You're crazy!", they go with what they know, and they experiment.

Being able to experiment, filter out other people's insecurities with their reality being demoted if there's more incremental evidence of things not understood (astral projection, shared dreaming, etc), and knowing that there's always something to learn, this is why recruiting expert LD controllers would be practical. They have the potential, and they are more likely to find ways to go about increasing the probability of an event by redefining the principles behind it that attracts so many people to grow attached to it.

These people say "I may not have evidence or something persuading enough to invest in searching for evidence, but I'm getting there..." It's a progressive mentality to keep looking, to be able to balance their foundations and take risks in experimentation, and to always have healthy skepticism. People who state "Shared Dreaming is impossible," "Astral Projection is for the mentally insane," etc. when it's obvious there's not enough practical evidence to make them probable event are really just insecure.


Even if a person has a good amount of experience with lucid dreaming though, if they can't learn to not be emotionally attached to their experiences and assume it's the only right way, if they stop learning and never try to expand their horizon, 35 years, 40 years, even 50 years of lucid dreaming control times zero ambition to learn more and have open-mindedness is still zero. So it's really about people having good amount of control and the mentality to go on scavenger hunts. They keep moving forward instead of stopping and saying something is absurd, because they know making an absolute claim like that shows they're afraid of skewing their schemata of life.

And experimenting with people like this wastes time, because again, the mental blocks they have just makes things harder. The more people attempt to defy the defeatist mentality so many normal dreamers engage in (and I mean normal people as in those who just think dreaming is confined to their minds only), the more they find practical information, connect the dots, test it and experiment, and the less something will seem like "magic."

Just my opinion.

To EricinLA

I will be setting my alarm for 5.30am for Saturday 9th March
I will then go back to sleep, and try to send the image.
I will keep it going for as long as I can, which will be until alarm goes off again at 9am
This gives you, and anybody else plenty of time to tune in.
Best if you do not look for what I am sending, but rather, try to see/hear what comes into your dream.
Look for what you will, but you can not have too many tries.
You must be certain the dream was influenced by an outside force of some kind.
If you do have full control of your dream, it will help to conjour up an imaginry device to help you see.
Try looking into a crystal ball, or invent a machine that can communicate with others in dreams.

If I find I can not fly in a dream, I put on a jet pack.
To move objects, I use telekenesis. If this does not work, I use a gravity gun.
To meet someone, I go to their house, or phone them up on an imaginry phone. Very difficult to make people appear out of thin air.

Can you can see what I mean ?

If you have the slightest doubt that you can not see the image I am sending, then you will not be able to see it. No matter what.
But use a device in a dream world, and the task becomes much easier.
Why not phone me up on a mobile phone, and simply ask me what the image is ?
If you are a star trek fan, use a communicator.
Whatever works best for you.

Anybody else is welcome to join in this little experiment.
The more the merrier.
I will start a dreamviews meeting off in my dream, and tell/show anyone who visits, what the image/picture is.
I will be in a big red, and whit striped tent out in the countryside.
Off to bed now, and will attempt to keep this going all night.
Alarm now set.
Goodnight all, and see you in a few min's
Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I would presume that if people want to engage in these experiments that involve a good amount of awareness, having good control of your lucid dreams would be a practical basis. It wouldn't be reasonable to have someone who isn't good enough with dream control when lucid, and it reduces the chance with learning any attempts with Beyond Dreaming concepts.

---

This kind of comes back to the point I was trying to make....In my experience there's somewhat of a tradeoff between control and being able to share thoughts. I think that the people who are good at control but can't share dreams very well have a weak argument when they suggest that control is important to sharing, since it hasn't worked very well for them. But maybe you're a person who is good at both at the same time, so we'll see what happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

This kind of comes back to the point I was trying to make....In my experience there's somewhat of a tradeoff between control and being able to share thoughts. I think that the people who are good at control but can't share dreams very well have a weak argument when they suggest that control is important to sharing, since it hasn't worked very well for them. But maybe you're a person who is good at both at the same time, so we'll see what happens.

---

I sort of disagree with the first statement, and although I only had a few lucids, here's why I think having control doesn't mean you're necessarily trading off the ability to share your thoughts.

I know this is based from your personal experience, and I completely acknowledge this, but having good control of yourself, being aware of other aspects of your mind, being able to fine-tune things at will has to be, in my opinion, a catalyst in sharing your thoughts well. Which brings me back to those who can control their dreams usually have ideas slip into their mind of who they are as a whole, whether it's acknowledging their past, present, and possibly future selves. But I think where things seem like a tradeoff is that they believe they might lose control if they try to push things too far.

In this sense, it would just be the fear of tapping more into one's psyche, but not trying to share thoughts out to make trials and experiments of probable chances of shared dreaming events. I think when people want to share their thoughts out through dreams based on the presumptive rudiments behind it, there's a fear of the level of security.

I'm sure you're aware of what I'm about to state, but people with good control of their dreams only have a tradeoff if they worry too much about the security of their mind. Sharing thoughts with strangers through experiments makes the attempts that much difficult, which is why sub-forums like IOSDP try to implement groupings of people making bonds with each other. Getting to know someone a bit more increases the chance of seeing if the rudiments behind shared dreaming might have some weight with how lucid dreaming enables one to express thought energy into reality in their spectrum of awareness.

I don't have any evidence whatsoever other than anecdotal on shared dreaming, but I do know that if one wants to make the rudiments applicable to dreaming and telepathy, the first step in my opinion would be to have a consistent maintenance of yourself. If one doesn't know how they react to their surroundings, both dreams and reality, it's usually harder to try and share thoughts with someone else. And when one worries about private information being leakd, the mental block keeps growing and growing; and the main problem here is that people speculate that with great control means greater chance of revealing too much.

So in my opinion, this is one of few reasons people think it's a tradeoff. I think it's about perception and not taking yourself (at least the abilities of your dream self) so seriously. I noticed that having a close bond with someone (usually just good DreamViews friends I had in the past and still have now) increases the chance of them having what would be presumed "shared dreaming."

It's sort of knowing how to be empathetic towards the person you're attempting the shared dreaming, and not a lot of people can do this consistently because they have mental blocks of insecurities of themselves. They're afraid to open out more, and I feel this is a behavioral trend with people of good control, they get too protective of themselves.

This may not apply to all dreamers, but it is apparent to a concerning amount that do try. They underestimate their sub-conscious or unconscious and presume that if they attempt to share thoughts, they might risk having a person "hacking" or abusing their willingness to "access" or have a shared dream with them. Control is one thing, but being able to know your mind can keep certain things a secret and still have you attempt shared thoughts through experiments like this helps greatly.

People who want to do this don't know where to find a backup in case things go wrong. They don't have a Plan B because they feel their mind might not bring them back to their foundations. This is why researching things like Dream Guides or even Spirit Guides can give a person solace before they attempt to share thoughts with strangers or just a person they have a small bond with. Of course, not everyone believes in guides in that realm, even though they can just enjoy that possibility and still believe dream guides/spirit guides/etc. are possibly just higher aspects of themselves.

People who have backups (dream guides, seeing the bigger picture, or any concept that brings them back to healthy skepticism and progressive improvement) have a far better chance in trying to find ways to share thoughts. The only "tradeoff" is a person's insecurity to look at themselves first and being able to control what information comes out and what stays safe.

People can try all they want and say "I'll be sure to do my best in finding you," but they are not getting anywhere if they lack using empathy and critical thinking. I think trying to understand that other person's perspective is imperative, and to do that means understanding a good amount of yourself first. Many people aren't too sure of their abilities, they feel inferior, thinking sharing thoughts requires exaggerated power and idealism.

They never have a clear resolve of what they want to find, and when they go through a relapse, they most likely will give up. If people can make constant maintenance of their efforts and coping with future relapses with failed attempts, then we might get somewhere with sharing thoughts out without risking what we want to keep safe. People can share a few bits about themselves that aren't too personal, and they just use anticipation (which may produce more results if they synch with their sleeping periods) as a crutch towards having "shared dreams."

That is the conflict in these experiments, in my opinion, but it can slowly fade away when a person knows that aspects of themselves before they explored into the unknown are at their beck and call. This is when they can take risks and still have assurance there's a way back in case things get too hectic.

The Sun

Alternate version of Twinkle Twinkle little star - YouTube

is on you computer screen, Phil.

1 Phil (cintillating cinders) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I sort of disagree with the first statement, and although I only had a few lucids, here's why I think having control doesn't mean you're necessarily trading off the ability to share your thoughts....

---

OK. I agree that the fear issue is important. What I said about control might make more sense if I explained better how I do shared dreaming, insofar as I do it. I'm kind of doing it by side effect, using karma to drive it rather than driving it myself. And I'm trying to work with that flow rather than fighting through it, which is why I give up a kind of control. For me it started as premonitions, then I noticed that another person is always involved with the premonition, so I explored the mind-meld side of it more, and now that aspect of it is larger than the premonitory aspect. This isn't to contradict what you said though. You came at it from a different direction, and I agree that the lack of control in my approach has drawbacks. Let's talk about it later in the week if you have time, maybe I'll post or send a message this weekend, and maybe we can share something in a dream after that. I actually don't care too much about shared dreaming itself, but understanding how you experience it should help me with related questions that I do care a lot about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

OK. I agree that the fear issue is important. What I said about control might make more sense if I explained better how I do shared dreaming, insofar as I do it. I'm kind of doing it by side effect, using karma to drive it rather than driving it myself. And I'm trying to work with that flow rather than fighting through it, which is why I give up a kind of control. For me it started as premonitions, then I noticed that another person is always involved with the premonition, so I explored the mind-meld side of it more, and now that aspect of it is larger than the premonitory aspect. This isn't to contradict what you said though. You came at it from a different direction, and I agree that the lack of control in my approach has drawbacks. Let's talk about it later in the week if you have time, maybe I'll post or send a message this weekend, and maybe we can share something in a dream after that. I actually don't care too much about shared dreaming itself, but understanding how you experience it should help me with related questions that I do care a lot about.

---

I should have more than enough time since Spring break for college started today, I can get my dream recall at a decent pace despite not recalling any dreams for a month or so. I look forward to your response then. :)

Phil

A guy with the user name "Eye" ran 48 dream experiments. First he used this box:

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...8030682820.jpg

here is a "reveal"

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...1475910350.jpg

Later here used this:

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...6033436362.jpg

Participants would fall asleep saying

"What's in Eyeoneblack's box"

or

"What's in the star"

A guy before him did 35 consecutive dream remote viewing labouritory's. They were encouraging lucid dreamers and OBEers to ... (?). I can't remember now. But it was a lot of fun.

They are all taken down now but I copied them all long before the were taken down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

To EricinLA

I will be setting my alarm for 5.30am for Saturday 9th March
I will then go back to sleep, and try to send the image.
I will keep it going for as long as I can, which will be until alarm goes off again at 9am
This gives you, and anybody else plenty of time to tune in.
Best if you do not look for what I am sending, but rather, try to see/hear what comes into your dream.
Look for what you will, but you can not have too many tries.
You must be certain the dream was influenced by an outside force of some kind.
If you do have full control of your dream, it will help to conjour up an imaginry device to help you see.
Try looking into a crystal ball, or invent a machine that can communicate with others in dreams.

If I find I can not fly in a dream, I put on a jet pack.
To move objects, I use telekenesis. If this does not work, I use a gravity gun.
To meet someone, I go to their house, or phone them up on an imaginry phone. Very difficult to make people appear out of thin air.

Can you can see what I mean ?

If you have the slightest doubt that you can not see the image I am sending, then you will not be able to see it. No matter what.
But use a device in a dream world, and the task becomes much easier.
Why not phone me up on a mobile phone, and simply ask me what the image is ?
If you are a star trek fan, use a communicator.
Whatever works best for you.

Anybody else is welcome to join in this little experiment.
The more the merrier.
I will start a dreamviews meeting off in my dream, and tell/show anyone who visits, what the image/picture is.
I will be in a big red, and whit striped tent out in the countryside.
Off to bed now, and will attempt to keep this going all night.
Alarm now set.
Goodnight all, and see you in a few min's
Phil

---

Well Phil,

All I can say I remember that sticks in my mind is seeing something Round and shinny in my dream last night. Also a remember an impression of something Asian for some reason. Those were the only things I saw that were out the ordinary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

Well Phil,

All I can say I remember that sticks in my mind is seeing something Round and shinny in my dream last night. Also a remember an impression of something Asian for some reason. Those were the only things I saw that were out the ordinary.

---

EricinLA

Just woke and checked this phone for email and found your post.

Then I clicked my bookmark to that little boy singing Twinkle twinkle. Then I noticed a brand new "twinkle twinkle had popped-up overnight under that YouTube.

So I watched it.

TWINKLE TWINKLE by ABC-Z

TWINKLE TWINKLE - YouTube
(15:43) 7652 views uploaded 7-March-2013

Japanese r Asian.

There is a guy with wavy, goldy hair in a Yellow suit. similar to my dream. And the clip begins with the ABC-Z guys popping-up (dream-like) in the room.

(2:50) is where they start singing Twinkle Twinkle.

Phil

At (5:05) they make a 5 pointed star.

TWINKLE TWINKLE - YouTube
(15:43) "Star" at (5:05)

A pretty star

and they sing "falling, you got me falling"

so

mabe the image on your computer is A Falling star" a comet?

Here are more of eye's "reveals":

code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...8042107671.jpg

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...5814244480.jpg

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...3830734460.jpg

He even (Cheekily) did the same target twice in a row.

we learned lots and lots. Mostly I learned that "Busts" are often "Hits" in disgius. Also folk were missing the "target" but going into another participants dream. Mutual dreaming (!!!). But, the biggest shocks came with outer-world Syncronicity and precognitive stuff (clearly) coming through. The more people that play, the stronger the precog dreams, mutual dreams and sync's.

wow I found them. EyeOneBlack's are not taken down. And I think this is the very first one:

Open Date: 20-March-2008

Post #1 is the reveal because folks could edit their own posts at any time. But eye originally wrote:

"The box is small, about 6x6x4.5 inches."

Oh, the reveal was a rubix-cube (see photo in last post above^.

post #2
Participant one: LC.
(I dare not reveal real usernames)

"It's crinkly like a piece of paper or a chip bag."

Post #3
Participant two: MC.
I get the impression that it is something with natural characteristics. Earth tone color, and possibly partly made of leather.*

Perhaps a necklace with an emblem (talisman). the emblem has a smooth surface with white, black, red, and green markings.*

I believe you may have put either 3 items in the box, or an item made of 3 parts.*
---*

Post #4
Participant three: O.
Something in a CD case like a movie or video Game with red on the cover possibly a red car or airplane.*

Woke up this morning feeling that it might be a small square engine part of some sort so not sure which guess I will stick with.

Post #5 Eye
WOW!! This is fun even on my end of it*:-)

Post #6
Participant five: Scy
[b] When I found myself thinking 'what's in eyeoneblack's box', I'd immediately see your box. Very clever to tie the thought with the target ;)*

Method 1:*I'm dropping through the sky toward earth; wind streaking past. I realize I have no parachute and so use my shirt to slow my landing. Contact with the ground is bouncy, almost like springs on my feet.*

I look around to see a barren land. The earth dry, cracked and segmented off into miniature continents. A small cactus is all I see, so I poke it and a squirt of water escapes.*

Onward I walk, and walk. Nothing. Then I see a palm tree, which I climb and on top find the box. I look inside and find within something which represents a (more likely animal) life / creature.*

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/scyn...1963573050.jpg

Post #7 Eye

Eye quotes above post and answers:

Posting this here because related:*

I have two approaches. One; I wake early and repeat the mantra 'what's in Matt's box' or (whatever the object is, go there) and drift back to sleep, and two; meditation, where I seek a trance state.*

My inclination is (1) is more reliable (if reliable applies at all) because my rational mind is totally removed from the effort. Ideally, it should be the same in meditation, but some times the wordly mind is just too occupied for good results.*

Problem is with method (1) I have no control over where my 'projected' mind will actually go. It doesn't hardly ever behave.

Post #8 Eye
to Scynurael's last post:*

This is MOST interesting. I wish I could say more, but then it would just turn into a game of 20 questions.*

Carry on, guys.*

Post #9
Participant six: sci
Like a shoe, rubber and canvass with loose string or laces. perhaps wire in a loose form.*

I just joined, used to remote view several years ago, Recently have the time to try and pick everthing back up. Hope I can still.

Post #10
Participant seven: kpk
Brown leather baseball gloves.

Post #11
Participant eight: K
I keep getting some sort of cup - haven't the foggiest why!

Post #12
Participant two: MC
Okay oneEyeBlack, it's time to drum roll...................................... Whats in the box??

post #13 Eye

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...3830734460.jpg

(MC) This is CLOSE! Got various colors and the idea that it was made of many parts linked together, like a necklace.*

(O), Small, square and detailed like an engine part. Yea. BTW I think the morning guesses are best.*

(Scy) The image reminds me of WORKING a rubic cube, see the hands, the complicated object of many parts in the right hand? - cool.*

Drawing is a great way to go about this as the mind will reproduce something that it doesnt' necessarily understand.*

I think all these were great efforts at the gestalt of the object. Remember, there is no such thing as a BAD effort, what could be harder to learn than remote viewing??*

Note: The cube was in the box when I photographed it. The next object is also in the box when I took the pic.

So, Dreamviewer's

Don't be afraid of "Busting" because everyone does, all the time.

3rd eye lab

29-March-2008

post 1: Eye
moving on ....

post 2: O
Seems my guesses keep getting worse and worse but will give it a try so here it goes:*

For some reason maybe because of the World Wide Lights out event tonight or becsue of a dream of insects I am getting the feeling of:*

A circular/oblong object with (can't spell it)fillament/hair/string like projections on it. Am thinking of a light bulb with the little thingies inside, an insect with many legs, or maybe a doll head with hair. Never good at guessing color although I know I need to work on this. Black and white comes to mind.

Might have the feeling it is a bit compressable (of course then that leaves out the light bulb).*

***After I first posted this I got the strong feeling of purple.

post 3: eye
One blind man said it was large and round like a tree.*

One blind man said it was long and curved like a vine.*

One blind man said it was flat and broad like a leaf.*

It was an elephant.

post 4: Ku
I get the impression its got curved sides, and parts coming off a central point either like a flower or compass point thingy only with curves (descriptive - I know!)*
K

post 5: re
I got the impression that there was a handle of some kind connected to a circle object. But I also had an impression of something inside the object in the box.

post 6: MC
My intention is to employ 3 different methods to gain insights regarding the contents of the box.*

Process A - Entered a meditative state while focusing on a candle and asking myself what the contents were: I received an impression of a tarot card*

Process B - Lying flat on my back and circulating the lights of the chakras. I then commanded "show me in my minds eye the..etc" : I received an impression of a religious or metaphysical symbol with a red cloth associated with it. received a insight of a hollow wooden (almost musical) sound.*

Process C - Visit the box in astral body and peek into the box: (To be completed during the week)

post 7: eye
I keep wondering if someone will read everybody's clues, and there are clues in most every post, and then take a stab at it by whatever method you're experimenting with.*

BTW I think the best and only way to do this is via the astral body, that's why it's called remote viewing - taking the conscious mind to a remote location - how are you going to get it there but in the vehicle of the astral? This is different than intuition, not that intuition might not play a role.*

While I can't play along, I'm learning even more about the process just by following the posts.

Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...1475910350.jpg

post 8: eye
Owlene definitely got the idea it had to do with hair as these are specifically barber's scissors.*

Others got the handle, the circle (thumb part) the coming off a central joint, the point, etc.*

Not bad.

post 9: MC
Okay, eyeoneblack. I'm frightened, encouraged, but sort of freaking out. As you know, my plan was to employ different techniques and see which yielded the best results.*

This morning between 6:15am and 6:45am, I employed remote viewing technique of putting my consciousness in the room with your box, and peered into the box. It was dark inside, so I began to visualize light flikering inside the box.*

I received the impression of a SHARP POINTED OBJECT W/ A SHARP EDGE. NO BS!! My rational mind kicked in and told me "you're only seeing this because you saw a short Arabian Sword yeserday -- ignore this vision!"*

So when i saw your post this morning with the answer, I was startled. I really do not know what i'm thinking right now. But I need to get quiet for a while and fully understand what is happening.

post 10: eye
That's the method, magicarpet. I only wish I had waited a little longer for you so you could have put up the post.*

Who's to say your seeing the sword didn't directly relate to your wish to see inside the box? Things can work that way.*

Everything is suspect. Life is but a dream.

post 11: MC
No doubt. There may have been an element of synchronicity involved in seeing the sword. But I'm still sort of, for lack of a better term, "tripping".*

It's like the foreskin has been removed from my eyes/consciousness and I see the full shekinah of possibilities .... untapped powers of our minds.*

I have some thinking to do.

I just found Eye's 2nd

I only have access to these three picture because the rest are in photobucket and I can't get them to post. But I hope these encourage you to play Phil's dream game, for fun.

post 1: eye
Well, I remembered I'm tied up all day tomorrow, so here it is.*

post 2: MC
My initial inspiration was that of a bird, or something flying. It seemed that I could even hear wings fluttering.*

Something I've never experienced before is that while trying to concentrate on the box's contents, a particular song began to envelop my thoughts.*

It was an old song by Earth, Wind & Fire - "I'll write a song for you". Lyrics are here :*http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/earth+wind+ and+fire/ill+write+a+song+for+you_200446 06.html
*

The song speaks of Thirst, A spinning top, A music book and A magic Box.*

Have no idea what this had to do with the contents, but as soon as the bird impression came to me this song dominated my thoughts.*

(perhaps I'm just too old school)*

post:3: O
Feeling something curved like a bowl and another straight item with a circle or semi-circle either attached to the bowl-like item or seperate such as a spoon Also get the images of a champagne glass, or baseball cap. Color dark navy and transparent/clear. Need to narrow this down a bit. Feeling a bit disconnected with this one so will wait until morning to see if I have any other thoughts.*

This is so much fun!

post: 4 eye
Ho, hum...**

You gonna' let mg and o run off with this??

post 5: G
Well the first thing that comes to mind is...*
Something tall and slim, like an obelisk. Valuable. A dollar bill comes to mind, but seems valuable beyond what money represents. A crystal, maybe shaped like an obelisk. Rose quartz? or something dear to you that resonates with the heart chakra.*
Its very difficult to separate the imagination, so I'm going to stop here.

post 6: eye
I'm going to open the box Sunday, so if you've been thinking about it - do it.

Sunday
Forum code:*http://www.saltcube.com/img/usr/eyeo...8042107671.jpg

Dear Dreamview's reader

Even Eye had trouble getting participants sometimes, 5 years ago in March 2008. He was very dedicated and did two a week.

I joined them on July 26, 2008 for number 30 and eye stopped at 48.

I really miss his bi-weekly targets.

Looks like none of us are very skilled at passing information in dreams.
Here is the image I had.
The red/white striped tent was supposed to be a subliminal mind clue
Photo was for me to direct the image to EricinLA



Attachment 4455

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

Looks like none of us are very skilled at passing information in dreams.
Here is the image I had.
The red/white striped tent was supposed to be a subliminal mind clue
Photo was for me to direct the image to EricinLA



Attachment 4455

---

Phil,

Thanks for trying. I still don't even know if it can be done. I've tried with my wife which sleeps in the same bed. No luck there either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

Phil,

Thanks for trying. I still don't even know if it can be done. I've tried with my wife which sleeps in the same bed. No luck there either.

---

You tried what? and how

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hathor28

You tried what? and how

---

Phil tried to pass me a image during our dreaming on Friday night. It didn't work. But we tried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

Phil tried to pass me a image during our dreaming on Friday night. It didn't work. But we tried.

---

i mean with your wife.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hathor28

You tried what? and how

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hathor28

i mean with your wife.

---

I tried to share a dream, enter her dream with her trying as well. Never worked. But she has almost no control of her dreams. I've been trying to help her get over some nightmares she has once in a while. Now, I'm just trying to get her to relax more and believe that she can do what I can in her dreams eventually.

Maybe if I figured a way to share dreams with others I can help my wife with her nightmares. She doesn't have them that often. Kind of frustrating in a way. I don't even know if it is possible. I've read that people claim they can do it. But I haven't read where they have been able to prove it. I do believe people that they do believe that have connected. But who really knows. I'm an engineer and need validated proof. I don't want to wast time on something that can't be done.

Quote:

---

=EricinLA;1997912 But she has almost no control of her dreams.

---

That's the problem you guys have, in order for it to work, this needs to be practiced and it doesn't happen overnight.

I would tend to disagree.
It does happen in the night, overnight.
:lol:

There was a movie made in the 70s, or 80s
DREAMSCAPE.
You should watch it.
Special effects are quite poor, but it has some interesting ideas.
Also BRAINSTORM with Christopher Walken.
If anyone has seen these I would welcome a review.
Phil

(1/7) Dreamscape (1984)

Denice Quad Part 1
(1/7) Dreamscape (1984) (Dennis Quaid) Part 1 - YouTube
(13:25) 15,268 views.

part 2
(2/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:27) 6,896 views

Part 3
(3/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:26) 6,390 views

Part 4
(4/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:27)

Part 5
(5/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:28) 6,104 views

Part 6
(6/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:31) 4,962 views

Part 7/7
(7/7) Dreamscape (1984) - YouTube
(13:27) 8,383 views

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

There was a movie made in the 70s, or 80s
DREAMSCAPE.
You should watch it.
Special effects are quite poor, but it has some interesting ideas.
Also BRAINSTORM with Christopher Walken.
If anyone has seen these I would welcome a review.
Phil

---

Thanx for the "like" hathor.

Watch this quick.

The others done in easy to watch parts have been removed from YouTube due to copyright issues. This one will be found and removed too so don't procrastination.


Brainstorm 1983
BRAINSTORM 1983 - YouTube
(3:33:03) 2,625 views

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

There was a movie made in the 70s, or 80s
DREAMSCAPE.
You should watch it.
Special effects are quite poor, but it has some interesting ideas.
Also BRAINSTORM with Christopher Walken.
If anyone has seen these I would welcome a review.
Phil

---

A film that will scare the life out of many dream beginners was released last year.
"Shadow people"
The subject has been talked about many times on this site, but until recently, I did not know it had been made into a motion picture.
If you do watch it, and find the details a little scary, there is nothing to worry about.
The "Shadow people" are not the evil entities that they are made out to be in this movie.
Like Yoda said " There is nothing in there which you do not take with you "
The shadow people will only exist, if you invite them into your life.

You should try an all night, half awake meditation.
It involves consciously staying awake, but on the verge of sleep.
Jusk keep focused on a task that you have not yet mastered in the dream world.
Be warned though, once your mind gets into this state, it is quite difficult to get full sleep.
You can be very tired the next day from your efforts.
Time gets messed up. Min's to hours. Hours to min's

Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

You should try an all night, half awake meditation.
It involves consciously staying awake, but on the verge of sleep.
Jusk keep focused on a task that you have not yet mastered in the dream world.
Be warned though, once your mind gets into this state, it is quite difficult to get full sleep.
You can be very tired the next day from your efforts.
Time gets messed up. Min's to hours. Hours to min's

---

I don't know if this is the same. But I've tried being in a lucid dream state and also being aware of my physical surroundings as well at the same time. Mostly what I'm hearing, feeling and smelling in my bedroom. Can't really use sight since your eyes are closed. Also, I was aware of moving around in bed trying to act out my dreams. Like my dream paralyses of my body is not turned on like it should be. When I did it, I remember not getting a good nights rest. I don't really do it anymore. It was more of an experiment. Takes a lot of concentration to do it. Too tiring... Didn't really get much out of it besides knowing I could do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

I'm looking for people which I would consider to be Advanced or Expert Level in Controlling their dreams. I've never met anyone else who had the control other than myself to try the experiment. Now that I have found this site maybe it is possible to try it. Please don't apply unless you are at the level I'm seeking.

I've always wondered if my dreams were only in my mind or something more.

Here is my simple experiment:

1) Have 2 or more Advanced Dream Controllers try to connect their dreams and see if it can be done. It shouldn't make a difference how far apart they are physically. Just as long at they both try it on the same night and approximate time.

2) I would pass on to the other person a piece of information only in the dream. If the other person can tell me what I revealed I would consider it a success.

This would show if dreams are just totally independent of each other and only in the persons mind or something more.

Maybe I'm crazy but I have always wondered. Especially since I dream now and then when I am just letting the dream go and take it's own path without too much interruption from me. I sometimes dream of things that will happen at some future date. I don't know what to think about it. My wife even more. Because I will tell her in the morning and when they come to pass she used to kind of get freaked out about it. Now we just try to see if they will come true or not. Kind of fun in a way.

So are dreams just dreams or something more?

Who is up for this that is at the level I'm looking for???

---

Your simple experiment needs improvement.

Like Auron said, dream control and dream sharing are significantly different. One thing to consider is, some people are better receivers than givers (and visa versa). Also, minds are not simple things. How one individual interprets their experiences can be significantly different than another. These differences can cause large issues in how dreams, messages, whatever are communicated to one another.

If it was as easy as combining two skilled dreamers, the need for this discussion or attempt wouldn't be necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

There was a movie made in the 70s, or 80s
DREAMSCAPE.
You should watch it.
Special effects are quite poor, but it has some interesting ideas.
Also BRAINSTORM with Christopher Walken.
If anyone has seen these I would welcome a review.
Phil

---

Lilian creates a hat that can record everything a mind experiences. Then, as she is dying, she puts the hat on. Later her best friend and colleague puts the hat on and runs the tape of Lilian's death.

Thank you Phil.

Plenty of food for thought there, in the film "Brainstorm".

I love your Avatar.

My dream mate Buckello (Tulpa)

^ Brainstorm sounds similar in some respects to Strange Days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

^ Brainstorm sounds similar in some respects to Strange Days.

---

I just Google "Strange Days", Dark Matter, and found this:

In December 1999,*Los Angeles
*has become a dangerous war zone. As a group of criminals rob a Chinese restaurant, the event is recorded by a robber wearing a 'SQUID
', or "Superconducting Quantum Interference Device", which records events directly from the wearer's*cerebral cortex
, and when played back through a*MiniDisc
-like device allow a user to experience the recorder's memory.

Maybe, should a gang of Dreamviewers do a nice, long, weekly, dream remote view, thingy, we might discover that we already have a "S.Q.I.D." on our heads (hehehehahahs)

Back in October of 1999, I dont remember the exact date but thats the time frame, I dreamed that I was in Turkey and there had been a really bad earthquake that sank a 3 story apartment building entirely underground. I was keeping a boy company who had survived, but he was trapped with his dead father and was scared. I still to this day remember the dream clearly as if it was last night. I touched him on the shoulder and told him he was going to be alright. He would be found safe, but that it would take rescuers three days to dig him out. I woke up just as the sun came up, filled my coffee cup, turned on the news to CNN, saw that over night there had been a bad earthquake in Turkey (it was late afternoon there). On the news they were showing a story of a boy who was trapped under the rubble in a sunken building, who had used a cellphone to call a local radio station, so he could let someone know where he was and that he was alright, but his father who he was with, had died when the building collapsed underground. The firefighters were telling him on the phone that it would take them three days to get to him.

I remember almost dropping the coffee cup. I got on my knees and asked God why He would use someone like me, a nobody, to help someone in a situation like that, on the other side of the world where I had no way of helping.

The answer I got was that I was listening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debrajane

Lilian creates a hat that can record everything a mind experiences. Then, as she is dying, she puts the hat on. Later her best friend and colleague puts the hat on and runs the tape of Lilian's death.

Thank you Phil.

Plenty of food for thought there, in the film "Brainstorm".

I love your Avatar.

My dream mate Buckello (Tulpa)

---

I have seen so many fantastic Avatars on here.
Dream warriors, Demons, Fantasy characters.
All portraying their users in a messed up way.

I like to sleep. I avoid confrontations. I occasionaly pig out with lots of favourite foods.
I love fruit. I have lots of spontanious energy ( When not sleeping )
What better Avatar than a field mouse.

P.S. Love cheese too

This is a bit off topic, if its possible to be off topic in this thread. I'm posting it here because it relates more directly to this thread than to any other thread or forum theme.

In a dream last night I was surfing around a hilly lawn in a lawn chair, thinking something like 'Yeah this violates a couple of energy conservation laws, but its a dream. Simulating waking life physics even to this extent helps give the dream a kind of coherence, even though simulation isn't completely accurate." By the standard technical definition of lucid dreaming, this was a lucid dream, since I was aware I was dreaming. But it was just an ordinary dream, expressing my developing thoughts about dreaming, just as everybody's dreams express their developing thoughts about whatever it is that they are concerned with.

The definition of 'lucid' seems to reflect an underlying assumption that people dream about being awake, and that a person is lucid when they have the mental presence to recognize that they're not really awake, that its a "dream". But for the most part you don't dream about being awake if you're more concerned in life with thoughts and ideas, and not about what you're running around 'doing' with other parts of your body besides your brain. A thought is a thought whether you're awake or asleep.

Different parts of a person's mind work together in different ways at different times, and while asleep some parts of the mind are generally less active than when awake. The mix is different for different people. Why should being 'awake' while being asleep in some particular way be considered an accomplishment? By itself it doesn't mean you're more aware generally, and it doesn't mean you have better control over your mind either. If you're dreaming "I'm choosing to do this, and now I'm choosing to do that" that doesn't mean you have more control. You are controlling the virtual reality 'person' in your dream, but the you who is doing that is being controlled by a deeper you who decides what you are allowed to think of doing when you're doing that. And if you try to think about that deeper you, you're doing self-inquiry in a way that's easier for you when you're asleep. Can you count that, or make additional copies of the experience? Does a higher count mean your better at it or worse at it?

So in my lawn-surfing dream last night, a dog climbs onto my lap. Then I couldn't surf because the dog was too heavy. I thought "I'll add a button to my chair that sends electricity between the skids on my chair, then I'll be able to move with the added weight. I know that doesn't make sense, but I can pretend it makes sense because its a dream."

This dog is like almost any other dog: if there's an empty box or bag with an interesting smell it sticks its nose in to see what's in it. But the dog must be trained, disciplined! In my dream, a man gives the dog a lesson by closing it in a sack and frightening the trapped and blinded dog from outside. When the dog comes out it is shaking with anguish, and I try to comfort it. But what the man cares about is controlling the dog's behavior, not how the dog is feeling, or what psychological damage he may be causing.

I think that when you think of what is in your dream as being inside your 'own' mind, subject to your personal control, you are locking a part of yourself in a bag like that dog. Your spirit is more than that, more than just 'your' spirit. Maybe its good to train the dog, to develop it into more than a wild animal in a domestic setting. But the dog needs and deserves compassion. If you think that the dog needs to be treated like a 'straw dog' because it is imperfect or illusory, or just a tool, then I think that is not compassion, and you've somehow replaced your compassion with brutality in the form of a belief about mental accomplishment.

I'm not addressing any particular person or group of people, my use of the word 'you' is largely rhetorical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

This dog is like almost any other dog: if there's an empty box or bag with an interesting smell it sticks its nose in to see what's in it. But the dog must be trained, disciplined! In my dream, a man gives the dog a lesson by closing it in a sack and frightening the trapped and blinded dog from outside. When the dog comes out it is shaking with anguish, and I try to comfort it. But what the man cares about is controlling the dog's behavior, not how the dog is feeling, or what psychological damage he may be causing.

I think that when you think of what is in your dream as being inside your 'own' mind, subject to your personal control, you are locking a part of yourself in a bag like that dog. Your spirit is more than that, more than just 'your' spirit. Maybe its good to train the dog, to develop it into more than a wild animal in a domestic setting. But the dog needs and deserves compassion. If you think that the dog needs to be treated like a 'straw dog' because it is imperfect or illusory, or just a tool, then I think that is not compassion, and you've somehow replaced your compassion with brutality in the form of a belief about mental accomplishment.
.

---

I know what you mean. After I gained full control years ago I got bored eventually. That is why I "Free Dream" most of the time to see where my dream will take me. I never know. That is the fun part for me now.

Okay, I'll bite, EricinLA:

You've mentioned "free dreaming" several times now, always in quotes. What is that, exactly? Are you talking about being self-aware, but going with the flow of the dream without interfering, or are you simply talking about non-lucid dreams?

I think he means being self-aware but not doing anything and just going with the flow of his subconscious.

EricinLA

I'm bringing across from saltcube, the host's remarkable dream experiments. the names have been changed (to numbers) to protect the innocent. But I am sure the blow by blow accounts will interest you and others.

here is the link to my thread on saltcube:

*** http://www.dreamviews.com/senseless-...ml#post1998491 ***

saltcube is no longer open and hardly anyone posts any more so it is not worth going there if you don't already have an account.

but if anyone reading this has an account at saltcube here is a thread where I am collecting all 35 of saltcub's owner's dream experiments.

After I collect his 35 I will collect together, in one thread, "Eye's" 48.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Okay, I'll bite, EricinLA:

You've mentioned "free dreaming" several times now, always in quotes. What is that, exactly? Are you talking about being self-aware, but going with the flow of the dream without interfering, or are you simply talking about non-lucid dreams?

---

It is pretty much what you think. I've had full control so long that I got bored. So most of time now I just "Free Dream". Go where the dream takes me even though I can take control or alter the dream at anytime if I feel like it. It can be fun and learn things.

If anyone on here has ever watched a modern Star Trek series, or movies, you will know about the 'Q'
A race of omnipitent ( Is that spelled rite ) beings with limitless powers.
They control time, life, and can readily manipulate the laws of physics.
Only one drawback - They are all bored to tears. Done that. Been there.

This is what happens when you give a person limitless power.
99% of members on here are aiming for control in dreams. They want to be a 'Q' in their dreams.
The others that have experienced full control, now try to let it go.

The road must be travelled in order to see this destination.
Knowing this from experience is the only way it can truly be understood.

I wish you all well on your journey.

Quote from some wise person - " It is not the destination that matters, but the journey "

EricInLA is on the same path as everyone else, just a little further along.

Hope this makes sense.
Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debrajane

EricinLA

I'm bringing across from saltcube, the host's remarkable dream experiments. the names have been changed (to numbers) to protect the innocent. But I am sure the blow by blow accounts will interest you and others.

here is the link to my thread on saltcube:

*** http://www.dreamviews.com/senseless-...ml#post1998491 ***

saltcube is no longer open and hardly anyone posts any more so it is not worth going there if you don't already have an account.

but if anyone reading this has an account at saltcube here is a thread where I am collecting all 35 of saltcub's owner's dream experiments.

After I collect his 35 I will collect together, in one thread, "Eye's" 48.

---

If I get this correct. This is remote viewing. I really don't have much interest in it. I'm more into trying to expand what is possible in a dream. I think remote viewing is something different. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

If I get this correct. This is remote viewing. I really don't have much interest in it. I'm more into trying to expand what is possible in a dream. I think remote viewing is something different. Tell me if I'm wrong.

---

Eric

Me, and others like me, just, excitedly, went to sleep chanting

"What's in the box" or "What's in the star" while seeing the box or star.

Then

Recorded or dreams when we woke up and had a guess at what the object was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debrajane

Eric

Me, and others like me, just, excitedly, went to sleep chanting

"What's in the box" or "What's in the star" while seeing the box or star.

Then

Recorded or dreams when we woke up and had a guess at what the object was.

---

Why not repeat the experiment with another object.
I am willing to have a go, and I am sure many who tried first time, will want to know if they are now skilled enough to guess correctly.

Oh My God (!!!)

YAD is back

This amazing dreamer can expand his nights dream to "years" in one night.

and cause ...

YAD once effected the future by doing something in a "recurring" PreCOGNITIVE dream.

and he fully documented it.

sync sync sync.

YAD is just the man (dreamer) you are hoping to meet, EricinLA.

Check him out! Here is his profile:

View Profile: YAD - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


YAD is back!!!

I just checked "Home" and saw his old Avatar. This is that post:

Look at Past #6

http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ml#post1998616


Oh, Hi Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackbirdrising

I got on my knees and asked God why He would use someone like me, a nobody, to help someone in a situation like that, on the other side of the world where I had no way of helping.

The answer I got was that I was listening.

---

I think you helped. Maybe that boy is telling someone (or keeping it a secret) how an angel was giving him courage.

Hi gab

Ian Wilson (YAD)

Talking on a radio program. Very, very interesting.

August Special Edition 08/08 by Unraveling Secrets | Blog Talk Radio

Hahaha the weekly local rag just arrived and emblazoned on the front page is:

YOUR Tribe is Calling

YAD is a member of my tribe. I thought I'd lost my tribe years ago (on 11-11-10) perhaps they are coming here.

Hi. I am very interested in every ones views here. I have only read up to page two so I don't know every thing that was said on here but I too have experienced "dreaming the future" and I would like to help any way I can. I think it is a little weird because I am currently writing a book about dreams and in it the main character can control her dreams down to the very detail, but she also wonders about connecting dreams world wide. I think this is interesting because I only found this site today yet I had the story written up over three months ago. I don't really control my dreams all too often and have no clue any terminology that you guys are using but every once in a while right in the middle of the dream I will choose to do something different with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

If I get this correct. This is remote viewing. I really don't have much interest in it. I'm more into trying to expand what is possible in a dream. I think remote viewing is something different. Tell me if I'm wrong.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricinLA

I'm looking for people which I would consider to be Advanced or Expert Level in Controlling their dreams. I've never met anyone else who had the control other than myself to try the experiment. Now that I have found this site maybe it is possible to try it. Please don't apply unless you are at the level I'm seeking.

I've always wondered if my dreams were only in my mind or something more.

Here is my simple experiment:

1) Have 2 or more Advanced Dream Controllers try to connect their dreams and see if it can be done. It shouldn't make a difference how far apart they are physically. Just as long at they both try it on the same night and approximate time.

2) I would pass on to the other person a piece of information only in the dream. If the other person can tell me what I revealed I would consider it a success.

This would show if dreams are just totally independent of each other and only in the persons mind or something more.

Maybe I'm crazy but I have always wondered. Especially since I dream now and then when I am just letting the dream go and take it's own path without too much interruption from me. I sometimes dream of things that will happen at some future date. I don't know what to think about it. My wife even more. Because I will tell her in the morning and when they come to pass she used to kind of get freaked out about it. Now we just try to see if they will come true or not. Kind of fun in a way.

So are dreams just dreams or something more?

Who is up for this that is at the level I'm looking for???

---

Hi, I don't know what exactly you mean by dream control, but all my dreams are lucid and I have full control of them. We are exploring dream sharing for some time now, in a small closed group. It is definitely possible. Time zone is not a problem here, you can observe the other person waking life events if he is not sleeping.

pm me if you are still up for it, we can try at any night.