Dreams forsee the future.

I tend to think Dreams predict the future, I have Dejvau and such via dreams many many times, Also I had a dream of lots of planes been canceled the day before the ash cloud crisis began, I strongly believe dreams forsee events in the future, at first you might wave it off as coincidence bound to happen but something to happen 48 hours within a dream occuring is very unlikely, take the dream where I bought the loop the loop and such for €1.05, then Bought it in real life for €1.04, and also the surprise factor as it was quite cheap came in to, within 48 hours of the dream.

The odds first of me visting the shop within 48 hours is about evens odds, 1/1, as I visit the shop once every 2 days or so, and the odds then I'd buy a loop the loop was actually likely as I bought it because A. It happened in my dream, B. It was a warm day, But In the summer of Ireland the weather is only good in 35% of the days setting the odds at 3/1, and the cost would be anything between, €0.60-€2.60 or so, making the odds of €1.04 and so close to €1.05 at 200/1, so 1/1x3/1x200/1=600/1

so the odds of that happening just as an average example is 600/1, how can you put that down as coincidence, I do strongly believe dreams can predict the future somehow, as neurons maybe able to travel at the speed of light and go to the future at the same time, the brain remains in the present and the connection line receives signals from the Neurons which are now in the future, In other words, The Neurons travel to the future pick up data from it and transmit that data back in time, then While dreaming the Data is projected as images into the subconscious mind while your dreaming.

Erm ... okay.

Let's say for example that your theory doesn't break causality and the general workings of physics, and step back to your odds statement.

600/1 still isn't that bad, and also your prices weren't the same, so really you'd be looking more at 1/100 (1.04 or 1.05) or even higher if you consider the fact that you've taken values with a deviation of 1 (maybe 1/67, 67 being 1/3 of 200)

Then it's closer to 200/1 which is even smaller. That's also leaving out the likelihood of any other factors that may play in to your equation.

Even suppose precognitive dreams are possible (I'm open to the possibility if it can be proved, but it's doubtful), neither this particular situation nor your theory are really valid as an argument.

Keep a record of these dreams, though, if you're hopeful that one day science will prove this possible so you can have evidence you've done it xD

yeah I suppose there's gotta be scientific evidence, another one was a dream of lots of planes canceled then the next day the Ash cloud crisis with all the planes canceled occurred, and no one woke up before me so that rules out the chance my parents discussing it while I was asleep affecting my dreams, and I had no idea about it, till I watched the news that morning, I have a dream about airplanes every two weeks or so, 1 in 14 chance a.k.a. 14/1, and the odds of the news coveraging stuff about plane crashes well it occurs probably 1 in 3 times a year, a.k.a 365/1 divided by 3 equals 122 or so, and 14/1x122/1=1,708/1, thats another e.g. but Yes I need scientific proof, maybe I can work on something, so well see.

The 2 areas your delving into here are 2 areas humanity has not made a whole lot of progress in, Dreams, and Quantum Physics. You should definitely read "The interpretation of dreams," by Sigmund Freud. But, neurons couldnt move through time, As DCross said, this violates Causality (anything moving faster than the speed of light would techinically be going reverse in time, but the only measurable example of this would be tachyons which we cannot harness to study.) but, Is possible according to Quantum Theory. However, because neurons are just brain cells, every particle contained within the cell would need to, not travel through time, but be in 2 places at once. Studies have been done with this in regards to Photons, but Quantum Chromodynamics explains the bond between quarks and gluons as increasing in strength the further the 2 parties are from eachother in space. Therefore, the possibility of an atom being in 2 places at once, would be impossible. Seems like an interesting topic though, definitely do more research on it if your interested.

yeah thanks for explaining, and I am currently watching a lot of videos and documentaries on Quantum physics at the momment and slowly but surly getting the grasp of it.

yeah, its really an incredible topic. Itll change the way you look at things for sure.

I don't think I had any dreams depict the future such as that, but I had many daydreams which have come to pass.

Lets say I was sitting in class back in high school, I was tired and/or the subject boring so I sort of nodded off for a few seconds. In the dream I would see something that makes no sense to me and it was too short to make anything about it. So I forget about it since there was no substance for me to remember it by. Then years later, I would enter a place I had never been, and I would experience deja vu. It would come back to me, the short dream I had. But it only happens when I am standing at the correct spot and seeing everything from the right angle as I did in the dream. Sometimes it is when I am doing something, such as doodling, and when I position myself just the right way, deja vu.

But I have never had a dream to depict the future events to such a scale. It's like I saw a short video of the future (3 to 4 seconds) from my point of view, but won't realize it until it happens exactly like it did in the dream. So I do not see future events like flight delays, oil spills or the winning lottery numbers.

That sounds interesting Boer, you should look more into that.

Dean, one more thing, you have to remember what dreams consist of when looking at them like this. They are basically a combination of daily events (memories) and some aspiration you have. It only makes sense, if you have a pretty solid schedule, that your mind would be going over memories of those places, which you would feel as if you were acting out once you remember them.

I did once have this dream about checking my grade for a test I had recently took, when I woke up and later checked my grade, it was the EXACT grade as in my dream.

Sad thing was, I failed :cheeky:

yeah that one about the ash cloud chaos stuff was a very rare one, but I do notice Déjá vu maybe a very related experience to dreams and such, but I dont know which exactly as its anyone's guess, but I do have seemingly insignificant foreseeing of the future, again today I had a dream where the price of the stuff I bought in shop was €2.65 and Today I did buy something costing €2.65 astonishing isn't it like?

I don't know if these two things were a coincidence or not, but here goes. I know this one sounds stupid but it really did happen. My sister had dreamed about getting a box of chocolate covered honey buns (you know, the honey buns you buy at the grocery store in the box). Well my mom and sister went to the grocery store the next day and actually saw a box of the chocolate covered honey buns. This was the first time we had ever seen that flavor. When my sister dreamed about them, she did not even know that they existed, then they saw them at the store the next day. That is an extremely weird coincidence.

Then a dream i had about a month ago. I work at food-lion, it is a grocery store. There are big windows in the front of the store that look out into the parking lot. In the dream, a tornado touched down in the parking lot and came through the front windows and started tearing through the store. A few days ago, i was working at food-lion. I just happen to be walking in the front of the store and i saw a big whirlwind in the parking lot. It was big enough that it took up almost half of the parking lot. It was brown because it was full of dust and dirt. Luckily, real life didn't play out exactly like the dream. But i think it is very strange that i would see a tornado out of the front windows of food-lion in a dream, and then later see a huge whirlwind out of the same windows in the same place. I'm not sure what the likely-hood of that is, but i'm sure it's not very high. Especially because whirlwinds happen at such random times and locations.

I don't know if me and my sister actually got glimpses of the future or not, but it does seem like those 2 dreams matching real life being very low probability.

my mom told me when you have dreams where you poop you will recieve money i have some dreams like this and days later i get money randomly either from an oppurtunity ie someone asking me to tutor their kid or sum thing like that and those oppourtunities barely hapen to me! so i guess dreams can tell the future or for me it's like a placebo?

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Originally Posted by deanmullen10

I tend to think Dreams predict the future, I

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I tend to think that the message is not the messanger--just like the prophet is not the second comming. Or again, saying that dreams predict the future is an anthropomorphism. It is as spooky as people who say "This book says. . . . "

I too have seen things that came to pass--and one or two I wish I never did.

However, like much of what happens in Lucid Deaming, it is suppose to provoke thought--not gibberish.

What is the definition of sentience? Is there any similarity in the definition of prophecy and Logic? What is the fundamental principle of grammer itself?

How can you use the definition of sentience to prove what men call unprovable?

Well, then, what are the odds that one can take a hint and do some real thinking about very important events in one's life?

I had a dream that a random cat came to my house, it was all messed up and dying. the next day, my cousins cat died.
I had a dream where there was someone lying on the floor, panicing, and it looked like they were dead. Later that day, my grandma fell and went to the hospital,
coincidence

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

What is the fundamental principle of grammer itself?

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Ummm.. correct spelling?

Glad that caught your attenton, now see if we can wade beyond the dew.

What can you make out of an old myth about the rice and the chaff?

At any rate, one will have to do better to set bench marks for pedantry.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Glad.. SNIP yadda yadda SNIP.. pedantry.

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Well.. if you could rewrite that in english, you might push your barb home better.

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

Well.. if you could rewrite that in english, you might push your barb home better.

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English---genius.

And if you are looking for a barb, I am not your type.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

English---genius.

And if you are looking for a barb, I am not your type.

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Listen, bro. In case it wasn't obvious, nearly nobody here can understand half a word you say. Shouldn't that tell you something? If you are unable to "dumb it down" for the rest of us underdeveloped peons, please just go away. State what you have to state in a way that makes sense. Otherwise, you look like a smug prick and are only making a fool of yourself. You aren't provoking deep thought, and you aren't challenging anyone's way of thinking. Cut the jargon, cut the bullcrap, and we may finally be able to get somewhere.

Thank you, and have a nice day. :)

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Listen, bro. In case it wasn't obvious, nearly nobody here can understand half a word you say. Shouldn't that tell you something? If you are unable to "dumb it down" for the rest of us underdeveloped peons, please just go away. State what you have to state in a way that makes sense. Otherwise, you look like a smug prick and are only making a fool of yourself. You aren't provoking deep thought, and you aren't challenging anyone's way of thinking. Cut the jargon, cut the bullcrap, and we may finally be able to get somewhere.

Thank you, and have a nice day. :)

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Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

To tell you the truth, I do not understand your complaints. It looks simple enough to me. The entire idea is so simple it hurts.

If what you are saying is true, it is no wonder people could not see the grammar system Plato and a few others were working with, when his entire dialogs is based on it. It is no wonder gibberish has been taught as grammar. If Aristotle had understood Plato, it would be different, but Aristotle was not that bright.

Look, I am trying to write a grammar book, to explain it all. It should be very simple, however, I have a full time job, single parent of a 9 year old jedi, making auido-books, cooking, cleaning, ripping off the internet. bla, bla, bla, and I have spent years looking for someone who would not mind watering down things for me. NO LUCK.

Bro, I'm gonna break this down real simple like for you:

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What can you make out of an old myth about the rice and the chaff?

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What the hell is this supposed to mean? Is it an allusion to something? I honestly don't know. It's not mainstream, whatever the hell it is.

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At any rate, one will have to do better to set bench marks for pedantry.

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I graduated with A's in AP literature, and aced the subsequent test, and I still had to do a google search on pedantry, which is "an ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning." Your sentence now reads "At any rate, one will have to do better to set bench marks for an ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning." I still don't know what the fuck that means.

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I tend to think that the message is not the messanger--just like the prophet is not the second comming. Or again, saying that dreams predict the future is an anthropomorphism. It is as spooky as people who say "This book says. . . . "

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What is up with the second coming thing? I have no idea what to make of that. And the bit with the anthropomorphism...your sentence literally reads "Or again, saying that dreams predict the future is an object represented as having human traits." What? Are you trying to say that predicting the future is a human trait, and that dreams are not a part of human nature? If so, just say so! Cut out the damn big words. You're giving me google overload syndrome.

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I too have seen things that came to pass--and one or two I wish I never did.

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This is something I'm fairly sure I understand. More like this, please.

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However, like much of what happens in Lucid Deaming, it is suppose to provoke thought--not gibberish.

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This is an opinion, and as such, should not be treated as fact. Your personal experiences have led you to this conclusion. Instead, I would recommend beginning that statement with "I think." The word "gibberish" I find a bit condescending, too. Are my dreams worthless sacks of manure because they don't provoke some deep thought? I find that offensive, sir.

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What is the definition of sentience? Is there any similarity in the definition of prophecy and Logic? What is the fundamental principle of grammer itself?

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Sentience, as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary: feeling or sensation as distinguished from perception and thought.
Prophecy, as defined by the same source: the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose; OR, a prediction of something to come.
Logic, as defined by the same source: a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning.
So, by taking the definitions of logic and prophecy and comparing them...you have predicting things to come on one side, and formal principles of reasoning on the other. Apples to oranges. What are you trying to get at, here?

And what is this goddamn fixation on grammar all about? Grammar -- the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this have understanding at its root? In other words, the idea is that within a language, there is a set structure of how words fit together, in order to create meaningful sentences and statements? So, as long as we can understand each other, we don't have a problem. What seems to be happening, though, is that while your sentences are usually grammatically correct on a technical level, you use so much jargon and abstract reasoning that it is nearly incoherent to the rest of us. If this is derived as a result of reading too much Plato, I suggest you lay off the philosophy and try living like a normal human being for a change. You can have the most brilliant mind on the planet, but unless someone can understand you, it doesn't matter.

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How can you use the definition of sentience to prove what men call unprovable?

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How is this even related?

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Well, then, what are the odds that one can take a hint and do some real thinking about very important events in one's life?

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Now this just makes you sound like a smug, condescending bastard. What's more, it's still hard to understand. And furthermore, it's still unrelated to the OP.

Here is a question for you: you claim to understand Plato's grammar system. How do you know you do? What makes you so sure you have it figured out? And why the hell do you talk like you do? Your last post was easy to understand. Mostly. Why can't they all be that way? Why must you drag bible illusions into everything you post, and keep cryptically bringing up some archaic grammar system that still hasn't been properly explained in any way that makes a lick of sense? You bash the education system constantly, looking down on it (and all educated by it) as if it were some small insect in need of squashing. The education system is not perfect, but its job is to prepare people for the real world, not to try and understand Plato's warped grammar. In that respect, it does well. There are 8 planets in our solar system, amoxicllin is an antibiotic, and cars work on the principle of combustion. Simple enough. Valid applications in the real world. I'm going into pharmacy, personally. Would you like to explain to me how reading Plato makes me a better pharmacist? My job is to care for my patients and fill prescriptions, not solve the mysteries of the English language. When I feel like brushing up on my philosophy, I'll do so in my own time, when I'm not making society a better place. It has no place in my formal structured schooling.

Mario, I had hoped you were joking, but I see you are mystified. You want to see something that is difficult, or was for me? Check out my Delian Quest--It took me ten years to figure out the Delian Problem, no one else, in 2500 years was able to.

http://www.archive.org/details/The_D...st_062308_2008

Now that is what I called somewhat difficult.

Secondly, all information processed in the human mind is processed by a grammar system of which there are two primitive categories--tautologics and relatiologics. The fact that how you think determines what you do was behind the Platonic dialogs---and the Judeo-Christian Scripture (mark on the forehead and hands is a metaphor for it) and it is something you should have learned in school. Or did you somehow believe that grammar is just the limited concept to what you learned in school?

First id like to say I find your use of pedantry ironic.

But this is getting a bit out of hand and completely off topic, this has somehow gone from a dream topic, to Mario calling out philosopher, to philosopher talking about grammar. The fuck? The point is, if you cant get your point across without a blindingly shiny wrapper of grammatical bull shit then you don't really have a point at all do you?

To be honest, this thread isn't about how smart you suggest you are, or how philosophical either. There's a time and a place for that, the place is the philosophy section, and the time is whenever there's a thread warranting it. He was just trying to say nobody knows what the hell you're trying to say, and it isn't because you're so fucking smart and were so fucking stupid either.

and justy who the fuck are you? You think your display of stupidity is special?

I lay perfectly beautiful ideas at your feet and try to make me feel like Jane Goodall the first time she stepped into the woods. .

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

and justy who the fuck are you? You think your display of stupidity is special?

I lay perfectly beautiful ideas at your feet and try to make me feel like Jane Goodall the first time she stepped into the woods. .

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What an asshole lol.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Mario, I had hoped you were joking, but I see you are mystified. You want to see something that is difficult, or was for me? Check out my Delian Quest--It took me ten years to figure out the Delian Problem, no one else, in 2500 years was able to.

http://www.archive.org/details/The_D...st_062308_2008

Now that is what I called somewhat difficult.

Secondly, all information processed in the human mind is processed by a grammar system of which there are two primitive categories--tautologics and relatiologics. The fact that how you think determines what you do was behind the Platonic dialogs---and the Judeo-Christian Scripture (mark on the forehead and hands is a metaphor for it) and it is something you should have learned in school. Or did you somehow believe that grammar is just the limited concept to what you learned in school?

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Hey, congrats for you. Mind taking your massive planetary brain and gigantic epeen somewhere else? Because for how smart and brilliant you claim to be, you still can't speak like a regular human being. And as for your grammar, listen to what I have to say: I still have no idea what your hangup is all about, but whatever it is, I'm pretty damn sure it is completely and totally irrelevant. All I need to know in regardds to grammar to go about my life effectively is how to communicate with people. That's it. And guess what institution teaches me that just fine?

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

and justy who the fuck are you? You think your display of stupidity is special?

I lay perfectly beautiful ideas at your feet and try to make me feel like Jane Goodall the first time she stepped into the woods. .

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If you have beautiful ideas, they're cloaked in so much yammering incomprehensible crap that it's not worth looking for them.


To the OP: sorry for derailing your thread. In response to your post...600 to 1 is at first a staggering odd, but given how long your life is, how many dreams you've had, and how many have come true to date, it isn't that unlikely. Neurons are specialized nerve cells in the brain, and given all our studies, don't appear to move around or pop in and out of present-day existence. I would more than likely chalk this up to chance. Besides that, you yourself said that buying the thing was partially influenced by the dream itself. I'd call that future shaping, rather than future predicting. :) But your repeated deja vu dreams are a bit more interesting. I wonder...would it be possible that they are influenced by real-life events, and your dreams are simply good at putting the pieces together? Like the ash cloud event. They say animals know when a crisis is about to hit...perhaps you subconsciously knew something was up before the disaster struck. And maybe for the deja vu dreams in general, your brain took events from your day and arranged them into a plausible future scenario? Just speculating here. :)

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

and justy who the fuck are you? You think your display of stupidity is special?

I lay perfectly beautiful ideas at your feet and try to make me feel like Jane Goodall the first time she stepped into the woods. .

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WTF??????????????????? :eek:

> Off topic for a second< philosopher why the fuck are you talking like a person from 600Ad O_o if your so smart how do you not realize that your speaking and using weird sentences? whose the stupid one here then?

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grammar system of which there are two primitive categories--tautologics and relatiologics

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ok, im calling BS. ive never heard of neither. jesus. your just spewing smart crap hoping no one reveals your actually an babbling idiot that doesnt know what hes talking about. and tautology of grammar is the act of repeating oneself using different words.(Rhetoric) which, fyi, is NOT a category of GRAMMAR. its goddamn concept. JESUS CHRIST. if your going to be an ass, then at least make some sense.>Rant Over<
I had dreams of death and the next morning i would always be told someone was dying.

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Originally Posted by Skydreamer707

> Off topic for a second< philosopher why the fuck are you talking like a person from 600Ad O_o if your so smart how do you not realize that your speaking and using weird sentences? whose the stupid one here then? ok, im calling BS. ive never heard of neither. jesus. your just spewing smart crap hoping no one reveals your actually an babbling idiot that doesnt know what hes talking about. and tautology of grammar is the act of repeating oneself using different words.(Rhetoric) which, fyi, is NOT a category of GRAMMAR. its goddamn concept. JESUS CHRIST. if your going to be an ass, then at least make some sense.>Rant Over<
I had dreams of death and the next morning i would always be told someone was dying.

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You are absolutely correct that you have never heard of them, these are two names I developed, if you search, you will find the Two-Element Metaphysics was never developed. Plato and a few started, but no one, not even Aristotle, could further the work.

Look at your own body, If a system abstracts form it must supply material to that form to make a thing--this is a tuatologics. If it abstracts material, it must apply form--a relatiologic. As I said, even your own body shows you there are two, and only two primitive logic systems.

And yes, it is my life's project to develope and try to teach this very simple idea. It is the foundation of all craft. And when you start understanding, you will start understanding what Plato was about, that is why I do the free audiobook project. Even how to think, is learned also by example.

Call it bull shit all you want, but when you see--the material does not end up in your head, and when you eat, you do not become the form.

A thing is an material in any form. These are the two elements. Material and form.

And Plato was correct, because it is biologically the foundation of life, and of physics. If you cannot manipulate these correctly, or even the names of things, names of forms, and names of material, your mind is not functioning. When it starts to function you will see the real bull shit and just how steeped this planet is in it.

Pathetically simple, yet you people cannot do it. It is not even taught. And so, instead of using words by habit, I try to make you think in terms of meaning, in terms of craft, you act like spoiled children.

We don't act like spoiled childeren, we are spoiled children.. that is something you need to take into account when trying to explain.. your "very simple idea"

What is your very simple idea anyway? How exactly does the body show that there are only two logic systems? Can you give a few examples? Which two logic systems are you talking about?

Logic system 1 = ?
Logic system 2 = ?

You take too large steps in your argumentation for me to follow

Why do you ask me to tell you what has already been said? Damn!

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Mario, I had hoped you were joking, but I see you are mystified. You want to see something that is difficult, or was for me? Check out my Delian Quest--It took me ten years to figure out the Delian Problem, no one else, in 2500 years was able to.

http://www.archive.org/details/The_D...st_062308_2008

Now that is what I called somewhat difficult.

Secondly, all information processed in the human mind is processed by a grammar system of which there are two primitive categories--tautologics and relatiologics. The fact that how you think determines what you do was behind the Platonic dialogs---and the Judeo-Christian Scripture (mark on the forehead and hands is a metaphor for it) and it is something you should have learned in school. Or did you somehow believe that grammar is just the limited concept to what you learned in school?

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I call bull shit on this one

Also, philosopher. I just googled "relatiologics", and it seems like you are the only one who has used this term. Congrats, you are also the first person in 2500 years to do so :)

Ok. I openly admit that I haven't read all of every single comment in this thread, but I do kind of agree with Mario, when it comes to your replies, Philosopher. I mean - don't get me wrong - I, myself, feel that I take a little extra effort to to butter-up what I believe are my more thoughtful responses, but you completely take it too far. Your banter falls on the level of: "I read this obscure text about what I feel is a crucial philosophical element, so I'm going to use an allusion to it in my next response", not knowing (nor caring) whether the person you are talking to will be able to relate to it, on any level. I seriously find it hard to believe that you converse this way, on a daily basis, to people in your everyday life, so (in my humble opinion) it's just something you might want to consider "dumbing down". (And by that, I mean: Not substituting a vague (yet poetic?) form of writing, for what is (quite probably) a very simple position on any given topic.)

All that being said: I don't believe dreams "predict" the future any more than I believe a cloud in the sky, which looks like a dragon, was "created" with the "purpose" of looking like a dragon.

I also do not deny the possibility. I'm simply not sold on the idea.

You call bullshit, but what argumentation do you use?

Anyway, I did what you did, googled tautologic and relatiologics, and after reading his posts, I finally understand what he is talking about. I studied formal logics, what this guy is talking about is meta-language. A language that describes another language. The logic behind logic itself. The language that describes a computer language for example.

When you use any belief system, any logical system, you must first agree on the definitions. If we do not agree on the definitions of the words we are using, we will be reasoning in circles on and on.

For example one person sees God as "a guy in the sky", the second person sees God as "the universe".

Person one can claim God does not exist, and he will be correct.
Person two can claim God does exist, and he too, will be correct.

This may seem as a contradiction, but it is only so, because the definition of God has not been agreed upon.. and so, people argue in circles forever, because there is no guy in the sky, yet there is the universe.

This is where tautologics and reliatiologics come in.. in computer science, we call it meta language.

So what you're saying is that we have to agree with what philosopher says? I mean, "Yes you are the only human in history to ever solve the Delian Quest" and "I will take one hour of my life to decipher what you're trying to say with all that confusing non-sense only meant to confuse us"?

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You call bullshit, but what argumentation do you use?

Anyway, I did what you did, googled tautologic and relatiologics, and after reading his posts, I finally understand what he is talking about. I studied formal logics, what this guy is talking about is meta-language. A language that describes another language. The logic behind logic itself. The language that describes a computer language for example.

When you use any belief system, any logical system, you must first agree on the definitions. If we do not agree on the definitions of the words we are using, we will be reasoning in circles on and on.

For example one person sees God as "a guy in the sky", the second person sees God as "the universe".

Person one can claim God does not exist, and he will be correct.
Person two can claim God does exist, and he too, will be correct.

This may seem as a contradiction, but it is only so, because the definition of God has not been agreed upon.. and so, people argue in circles forever, because there is no guy in the sky, yet there is the universe.

This is where tautologics and reliatiologics come in.. in computer science, we call it meta language.

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You missed it completely. A language of a language is self-relational.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

You missed it completely. A language of a language is self-relational.

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Then it's official...nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about. Have a nice day. :)

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Then it's official...nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about. Have a nice day. :)

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Not everyone here is as self righteous, rude, and as stupid as you. And as egotisitical as you might be, you are not everyone's representative. However, I can understand where you are coming from, just look at all the people doing the logic thing for over 150 years now and never realizing that their systems of logics of logics violates the first principle of logic itself--relation to self is inadmissible.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

You missed it completely. A language of a language is self-relational.

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Please, I didn't miss anything at all. I only formulated it in an understandable language. If I really "missed it completely" you could have atleast pointed out where I got it wrong. Too bad you're too thickheaded to discuss this topic any further as I find it really interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Not everyone here is as self righteous, rude, and as stupid as you. And as egotisitical as you might be, you are not everyone's representative. However, I can understand where you are coming from, just look at all the people doing the logic thing for over 150 years now and never realizing that their systems of logics of logics violates the first principle of logic itself--relation to self is inadmissible.

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You're the one being egoistical here, refusing to share your "knowledge".

You can write up a whole post defending your ego and breaking down Mario, but when it comes down to discussing to subject any further, you refuse to write more than one sentence? Wtf? To me this proves your love for your ego is bigger than your love for sharing knowledge.

What is the point in possessing a type of knowledge nobody can understand, or that you can't communicate to anybody? There is no point in that, you will take everything to your grave if you keep it up like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Then it's official...nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about. Have a nice day. :)

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I Lol'd :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Please, I didn't miss anything at all. I only formulated it in an understandable language. If I really "missed it completely" you could have atleast pointed out where I got it wrong. Too bad you're too thickheaded to discuss this topic any further as I find it really interesting.

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Welcome to the club (except for the finding it interesting part)

Hehe thanks :P I just finished reading his books, I no longer find it interesting, the reason he refuses to elaborate is because he has nothing to elaborate on.

How exactly is this related to dreams that forsee the future anyway?

Oh trust me, it has nothing to do with the topic. Sorry OP, in my experience I do believe dreams can forsee the future. I used to have many precognitive dreams when I was young. For example (one that I remember most vividly) in one dream I was playing beach volleyball with my brother and in the dream he stepped on a broken glass, but he didn't care and he just threw it away so we could keep playing. The next day we went to the beach and we were playing beach tennis, when he ALMOST stepped on a broken glass. He grabbed it, looked at it and said "That was close", then threw it away and we kept playing. Maybe not the best example, but it's the one I remember the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Not everyone here is as self righteous, rude, and as stupid as you.

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....said the dude with the gigantic epeen looking down on all of us, blatantly refusing to elaborate in terms everyone (or anyone at all) can understand, thus revealing his own idiocy.

Quote:

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And as egotisitical as you might be, you are not everyone's representative. However, I can understand where you are coming from, just look at all the people doing the logic thing for over 150 years now and never realizing that their systems of logics of logics violates the first principle of logic itself--relation to self is inadmissible.

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I'm here for comic relief. If you'd stop stroking your own ego, you'd know that. As for the rest of the post...wtf? You keep claiming to be so damn smart. You have it all figured out. You went right where 2500 years of people have gone completely wrong. I see no evidence for this, save for long posts of pseudo-intellectual dribble. You remain intentionally vague, refusing to go into any substantial detail at all, and then you call all of us stupid when we can't figure out what the hell you're trying (and failing) to communicate. When someone calls you out, you go with a personal insult, then quickly change the subject. Rinse and repeat.

@ Mario:
I couldn't have worded it better myself. Well done sir.

I think I might have had a dream about this topic going well off topic. And it came to pass. :popcorn:

Did this shit really just go down? Mario just officially kicked this "superior brain's" ass. I mean really, this guy is apparently the best thing since sliced bread yet he lurks around a lucid dreaming website. If you really want to bitch about stuff completely unrelated, oh great philosopher, then do it somewhere where the people actually care. (which is nowhere, ass-hats are universally hated.) Is is better to be smart with an inability to communicate with the common man, or be stupid, but an excellent orator? Think about that, even though im sure you dont even check up on this topic anymore, seeing as you got your ass kicked by a bunch of know-nothing plebeians like us.

P.S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

and justy who the fuck are you? You think your display of stupidity is special?

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umadbro?

My God, this thread has to be this single fucking stupidest thing I've ever read. Credits to all involved.

Here's a quick summary for those who've missed it so far - trolls trolling people who think they're troll, and both are trolling idiots.

Okay, to those who refuse to read philosophers posts because he uses words to big for them, fuck you. Just read carefully, and use a dictionary or google. Alternatively finish primary school.

To those who read his posts, and realise that it's just another troll using pseudo-philosophy because it sounds nice, good on you, have a cookie.

To those who think people who are actually smart should dumb shit down for them to "fit in", get the fuck out of the gene pool, because it's idiots like you who have brought the world to where it is now. Learn about what they're talking about, or ignore them.

Nobody has kicked anyone's ass in this thread, because the one with the most votes is the one with the stupidest replies AND followers, rendering the whole system useless.

Everyone here either needs to simply drop out of the thread because A) their troll attempts are not working, because the victims are too stupid, B) they have no idea what they're replying to, and are trying to look impressive, or C) both.

Now, one of three things will happen here, and they are - A) People will flame me, thinking they're cool, and then the thread will continue, B) this post will be ignored, and the thread will continue, C) people will read this, see what is happening, and the world will be better off for it.

Now, of course, as we all know, only either options 1 or 2 are plausible, so here's a picture of a cat.

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/smiling_cat.jpg

*Grabs popcorn*

I love BD. :D

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...er/popcorn.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

My God, this thread has to be this single fucking stupidest thing I've ever read. Credits to all involved.

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Thank yeh. It has been a pleasure contributing to the idiocy. I'd like to thank Jesus for this award.

Quote:

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Here's a quick summary for those who've missed it so far - trolls trolling people who think they're troll, and both are trolling idiots.

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It's about damn time someone saw that.

Quote:

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Okay, to those who refuse to read philosophers posts because he uses words to big for them, fuck you. Just read carefully, and use a dictionary or google. Alternatively finish primary school.

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If you can understand what he's saying (and meaning) in every post with crystal clarity, congrats. You are at least one of the following: a fucking genius, God, or Philosopher's alt account. I've read and reread what he's said. I still can't make heads or tails of statements like this:

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Look at your own body, If a system abstracts form it must supply material to that form to make a thing--this is a tuatologics. If it abstracts material, it must apply form--a relatiologic. As I said, even your own body shows you there are two, and only two primitive logic systems.

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"tuatologics" doesn't exist in the dictionary. I have no idea what he means by logic systems. Somehow, I think posts like this can be reworded in a way that makes sense. I repeat: if this make sense to you, kudos. But for the average human being, this is nonsense at its finest. I finished with straight A's in high school. I'm not an idiot. But it's posts like these that either need to be taken somewhere else, or "dumbed down" to a point where they make sense. If you're saying Philosopher's statements are works of brilliance and far ahead of his time, then get him to join a forum for the gifted, rather than confusing the good people of a forum for lucid dreaming and making them feel like retards. We came to learn how to have awesome dreams, not get our ears talked off about some ancient irrelevant grammar system by some ego-wanking toad.

Quote:

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To those who think people who are actually smart should dumb shit down for them to "fit in", get the fuck out of the gene pool, because it's idiots like you who have brought the world to where it is now. Learn about what they're talking about, or ignore them.

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I've tried to ignore him. But he's being a pretentious cock all over the forum, and it was high time someone called him out. Looks like I'm not alone in my sentiments, either. People here are not stupid. When a person is saying things that can't be understood clearly by a large population of people, something is askew. If that person claims to be so incredibly intelligent that he solved a 2500 year old riddle, but can't speak like a regular human being, he's just begging to be trolled.

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Everyone here either needs to simply drop out of the thread because A) their troll attempts are not working, because the victims are too stupid, B) they have no idea what they're replying to, and are trying to look impressive, or C) both.

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As long as Philosopher keeps flaming, I'm winning. Looks like he was either driven out, or he finally caught on. Either way, good riddance. This thread looked to be headed the way of the dodo. Thanks for giving me a new target. :)

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Now, one of three things will happen here, and they are - A) People will flame me, thinking they're cool, and then the thread will continue, B) this post will be ignored, and the thread will continue, C) people will read this, see what is happening, and the world will be better off for it.

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I'm going with Option A, because it's much more fun.

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Now, of course, as we all know, only either options 1 or 2 are plausible, so here's a picture of a cat.

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I recall options A, B, and C. Where are these secret 1 and 2 options at? Keep in mind I'm a fucking moron for not being able to understand Philosopher's posts. Derrrrrr

If anyone at all laughed even a little, my job is done.

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Originally Posted by Mario92

If anyone at all laughed even a little, my job is done.

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How could any rational person not fall into hysterics over this thread?

Seriously man, thanks for the read.

And that goes doubly for you, Philosopher. None of this would have proven possible without your insistence on ignoring the pathetic needs of your lowly, shallow-minded readers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samael

I love BD. :D

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...er/popcorn.gif

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Could I get some of that popcorn?




Also, I am not of the opinion dreams predict the future, but feel free to try and convince me otherwise.

No, one or two of the things philosopher said made sense and were true, and the rest was him trolling. Someone went through and pointed out one or two things that made sense. The "don't expect people to dumb things down" applies to anything else that might happen in this forum. Trolls are simply to be ignored.

Options 1 and 2 are options A and B, of course, silly billy! xD

This whole thread is just trolling, but now that a popcorn image has been found I need to eat some and watch Dexter.

God damn it all.

Also, here's another cat.

http://jakst.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/cat.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

No, one or two of the things philosopher said made sense and were true, and the rest was him trolling. Someone went through and pointed out one or two things that made sense. The "don't expect people to dumb things down" applies to anything else that might happen in this forum. Trolls are simply to be ignored.

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Why ignore them when you can reverse-troll them? Derp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Why ignore them when you can reverse-troll them? Derp.

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Because 80% of the posts here were not reverse trolling, but people being genuinely confused, letting the troll win on forums on forums that are as you said "for lucid dreaming". Surely there must be a different forum for amateurs to practice on?

http://motherjones.com/files/legacy/...y-cats-a10.jpg

More cats, people.

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Could I get some of that popcorn?

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Made to share.

http://i46.tinypic.com/22z0gg.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

Surely there must be a different forum for amateurs to practice on?

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Probably, but I'd miss watching people here get devoured so handily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

Because 80% of the posts here were not reverse trolling, but people being genuinely confused, letting the troll win on forums on forums that are as you said "for lucid dreaming". Surely there must be a different forum for amateurs to practice on?

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As I recall, there was also a lot of laughing, which is the part that matters. And the 20% of reverse trolling was just great stress relief.

And the forum you're thinking of is the image board known as 4chan.

That's where the pro trolls should go, rather than the endless stream of newfags we get.

We need a forum between normal people ones and 4chan for people like philosopher.

http://www.eyezed.com/wp-content/upl...ughing-Cat.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mario92

And the forum you're thinking of is the image board known as 4chan.

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Does everyone else see what he did there?

I don't think DCross did. XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Does everyone else see what he did there?

I don't think DCross did. XD

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What did I miss, then? :S

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Does everyone else see what he did there?

I don't think DCross did. XD

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osnap!

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...Jo_popcorn.gif

From what I've noticed, people that bully others physicly are still sorta sane. But people that troll on the internets usually have a very sad life and sad family relationships and ofcourse, they feel no one understands them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mowglycdb

From what I've noticed, people that bully others physicly are still sorta sane. But people that troll on the internets usually have a very sad life and sad family relationships and ofcourse, they feel no one understands them.

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And how, exactly, did you come to this conclusion? A variety of TV shows with bullies in them, and a few news reports about suicidal teens on the internet?

Let's see some actual support to this statement, please, because I've never heard anything sound so ridiculous before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

And how, exactly, did you come to this conclusion? A variety of TV shows with bullies in them, and a few news reports about suicidal teens on the internet?

Let's see some actual support to this statement, please, because I've never heard anything sound so ridiculous before.

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Go to philosopher's profile, then click biography. I'm done bullying this troll.

Oh noes i lost the game =(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

And how, exactly, did you come to this conclusion? A variety of TV shows with bullies in them, and a few news reports about suicidal teens on the internet?

Let's see some actual support to this statement, please, because I've never heard anything sound so ridiculous before.

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Lol I wasn't fighting with either you or AndresLD, I just have the feeling that bullies are there to make submisive people show themselves some lessons of self respect, and about the trolls, I'm saying people that make a profession of being a troll, not trolling now and then.

I have no support to this statement either than my own experience and insight.

I was actually supporting your statement :P

Hug!, yeah I was saying that to DCross.

Wait ... what?

So how is mow supporting my statement here, how is andre supporting his, what's on his biography that started this, and what just happened to this thread?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catzisconfus

Oh noes i lost the game =(

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SON OF A BITCH!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DCross

Wait ... what?

So how is mow supporting my statement here, how is andre supporting his, what's on his biography that started this, and what just happened to this thread?



SON OF A BITCH!

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I meant that I support what Mow said about trolls, they have a sad life. I mean, I'm just judging here, really I don't know the guy, but I felt sorry when I went on philosopher's profile, saw that he is on his 60's, and that the first part of his biography was "Looking for a wife", again, philosopher maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are extremely happy with your life and having a girl is just a not-so-important part of life, but I just couldn't see myself getting to my 60's without a girl.

Wow! Personal attack city! I have to confess that I laughed my ass off while reading some of them. But, was this the thread about dreams about the future? Also I hate to have ripped off not only a whole class of handles or user-names but even misspelled mine because I'm at least partially dyslexic it seems, ie's or ei's are tough! Even more embarrassing is that I thought I was being original when I made it up cause I'm new to these forums and the community of dreamers. I've had cool dreams all my life and started researching LD's after having had them.
Anyway, about the ash cloud and the planes, I think it is possible to read portents for the future in your dreams. I made a post which has so far been avoided like the plague and mentioned that I've dreamed of the future since I was young. Nothing like world events but interactions with people that feel like dejavu when they happen in RL. So I'm saying, yes, dreams foresee the future! It has happened to me repeatedly. I think it has an historical context and everything as in Native American cultures, who give an incredible amount of credence to dreams especially the Iroquios (I read recently) and many other cultures as well. The Bible, for instance, with Daniel and "The writing on the wall" which refers to a dream that foretold of the demise of the Babylonian empire.
If you're interested there are references in Homer and Virgil to two gates through which dreams pass,

Stranger, dreams verily are baffling and unclear of meaning, and in no wise do they find fulfilment in all things for men. For two are the gates of shadowy dreams, and one is fashioned of horn and one of ivory. Those dreams that pass through the gate of sawn ivory deceive men, bringing words that find no fulfilment. But those that come forth through the gate of polished horn bring true issues to pass, when any mortal sees them. But in my case it was not from thence, methinks, that my strange dream came. -Homer, Odyssey

So cheers to 'the gates of polished horn'!

My post is for the benefit of deanmullen, who was quickly shouted down on the basis of modern physics, (of all things!) and not all these people talking about trolls, whatever that is. And if you all can tell I'm a newbie more power to you, congrats!

I lived in Montana for a while and my mom taught a class on Native American studies and one interesting figure she mentioned to me was a chief called Plenty-Coups who was said to have had prophetic dreams. This is an excerpt from an article from an online source, answers.com. I might not write an academic paper with it but you all shouldn't mind its credentials:

Visions Of The Future

Early in his life, Plenty Coups started having prophetic dreams and visions. Many seemed so far-fetched that no one believed them, but when they started coming true his fellow tribe members began to revere him and listened to him carefully:

When he was nine years old, he had a dream where he was told that he had great powers, and that if he used them well he would become a great chief. Later, when he was eleven years old, Plenty Coups went on a vision quest. He had a vision where he saw "many buffalo coming out of a hole. They spread over the plains, then disappeared. Cattle came out of the hole and covered the plains. Winds blew down the trees in the forest. Only one was left standing. In it was the home of the chickadee.”

His vision was interpreted to mean that the white man would take over the Indian lands and their way of life, like the wind that blew down the trees in the forest—all except one, which represented the Crows. The Crow tribe would be spared if they could learn how to work with the white man. His spirit guide then became the chickadee, and he would carry a pair of chickadee legs in a medicine bag he used for protection and spiritual power. This vision would guide his actions for the remainder of his life.

This source names it as a vision but a book that my mom had said that it was a dream. Thought you might find it interesting Dean. If you see things in your dreams that happen, then you are in good company.

Ive had TONS of these kinds of dreams. One day in school, daydreaming, I dreamt that all of the potheads/assholes would get expelled from my school. Even though it was only my fantasies, sure enough, the next day, I hear how all of the kids in the dream got expelled for smoking pot outside of school. The one that didnt get expelled was absent for a month because he fell out of a two story building and had to get surgury. This is just one example of my many stories I have to share, but I want to go to bed and LD already :P. Hope this helps

I dont know about physics is too complicated. And i cant know all. But i do think that in dreams one could have a glimpse in the 'possible' future. But you wont know until it comes. So the only thing is to live and life will show what one saw.
For me this is like to see a special point in all interconnections/interrelationships between all the people and other things/beings. As we are ALL connected somehow.
Very general i know but is enough for me.

My dreams of the future happen like deja vu and they are the exact sequence of events (nothing grandiose, just interactions like those that occur everyday) that I dreamed of. For instance, I'm seated at a table set with food, somebody says something to the person across from them and the person next to him turns his head, and laughs. Exact sequence of events and I remember where and when I had the dream, last dream of the morning before getting up, sleeping in a friends room when he was away on a trip. This has happened to me since I was young, and I asked my mom about it when I was a child, and remember the short conversation we had. I'm not talking about day dreams about potheads or dreaming of clouds of ash, or a volcano and then a world event grounds the airplanes in England. I'm not talking about suggestive imagery in a dream, and then reading about something in the newspaper the next day. I'm saying that I have dreamed something that comes to pass in my life in exact detail and not once but since I can remember sporadically. If that is unacceptable in terms of modern physics and modern concepts of rationality and reality then I don't know. This humble member of the modern world says, "back to the drawing board." Which is the same drawing board that people have been going back to since they started saying "I know how something works." How do modern physicists tackle the concept of dreams in their field, anyway? Do they have a discreet branch of dream particles that they are in the process of studying? What do the scientists (besides maybe CG Jung) have to say about the Australian Aborigine's concept of "Dream Time"? So far a lot of what I read in this Forum is a bunch of people, no offense to the inquisitive and intelligent folks that participate, counting how many LDs they have like they can measure expertise in this phenomenon, (which maybe you can) and that that somehow matters. This, in my opinion, is a highly spiritual area of interest, and has a lot to say about the very nature of reality, the composition of the human being, etc. This DV thing has been a good tool, don't get me wrong, and I've experienced some interesting things in my dreams by utilizing the techniques and tutorials. But, the mentality of the threads are sometimes disconcerting. Any orthodoxy seems to have this effect on any raw unexplored territory. Double edged sword. Discover the new world--spead disease and murder the inhabitants, strip off the precious resources and leave it poor and beleaguered.

Nice rant! Must've woke up on the wrong side of the bed.