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Quote:
Originally Posted by FryingMan
Thanks for your continued support and encouragement, it is definitely having a positive impact on my dream practice. I was unaware of the possibility of "mind talk" provided I can get more LDs and some stability, it is something I look forward to experimenting with.
Progress Update night of 12/8
daytime:
I continued as before with state tests and intention setting. I realized I skimp on the "visualize yourself vividly in a dream" part of the intention setting and focus more on the aspect of "tonight I will remember to recognize that I am dreaming." I need to hone my "dream visualization" skills as this is such an integral part of both the intention setting technique and MILD, which I seem to have a pretty good relationship with.
Nighttime:
Lights out at 10:30 with an alarm set for 6:00. I fell asleep cultivating the intention to wake in the middle of the night after dreams and record them. I drank a glass of water before my head hit the pillow to insure that I would have to get up. I woke up at 2:00 with no recall. I fell back asleep sloppily practicing MILD. I woke again at 4 with a very long and vivid dream immediately present. It was so long and detailed that I almost forgot part of it while recording it. The dream had lots of dialogue which I clearly remembered. Additionally, there were two distinct points in the dream where I thought things were strange, the first a horizontal water slide, the second my uncle smoking weed. Furthermore this dream contained two big dream signs, my childhood home, and a swimming pool. I feel like I was close to lucidity on this one, with just a tad more awareness I would probably have done a state test. Ah well, tonight!
I went back to sleep after recording the dream (20 minutes) and had a bit of trouble getting back to sleep. I practiced MILD, this time with some accuracy. I was awakened early (5:30) by my wife getting up. I decided to just get up and get on with the day. A good night!
^^ Great work, keep it up! I too noticed I have a fairly strong spatial location sense in many dreams. I even drew an overhead diagram of my path through one dream where I got lucid part-way through. You might consider doing something similar. I'm a terrible llustrator, I just drew a very crude overhead map with locations marked where "interesting" things happened. It's also a great way to really cement a dream into your memory
This sounds like a good sign...between feeling that you were close and the strong recall...I bet you were close! It is heartening to see your progress coming along nicely and your enthusiasm!Quote:
I feel like I was close to lucidity on this one, with just a tad more awareness I would probably have done a state test. Ah well, tonight!
Progress Update night of 12/09/14
Daytime:
Practiced state testing and intention setting as before. Have been enduring a 2 day migraine, so combination of dull headache and medicine head left me a bit foggy all day, not sure how good my state testing was.
Nighttime:
To bed later than normal (11:00) groggy, so my inetntion setting for recall and lucidity was probably not very good. I woke up at 2:00 with no recall. This was not troubling as it has been the case for the last few nights, with vivid recall to follow in later REM cycles. I went back to sleep still groggy and tried to practice MILD. Final wake time was 6:00. I had no recall and moved around a lot before I realized I was awake and wanted to remember dreams. I settled back down and searched, came up with two fragments which were newspaper headlines or some other sort of text. The migraine is gone now, so tonight will be more productive.
I also listened to Sensei's "dream count" podcast. It was very helpful for motivation. It really underscored the fact that lucidity is not something that one develops in a few months. Just like my mediation practice, it is a skill/habit/mindset that I need to train in and nurture over the course of years and decades, not months and days. The longer I practice, the more frequently the lucidity, the greater the benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FryingMan
I am still debating with myself about going to a paper dream journal. The main reason I want to is to be able to sketch things out and solidify spatial relationships. The downside is my pen, light, and notebook will doubtlessly be co-opted by my children. Also I feel like it will take more effort, movement, and light to journal at night using paper method as opposed to phone typing.
You can do rough computer sketches later in the day, that's what I did. If I remember a dream, then I typically remember spatial positioning pretty well, though. I can type far faster than I can write so computer for DJ makes much more sense. Also, on the computer, encryption is available for "special dreams" that you don't feel like the universe reading about (of course I have none of those, I just heard about them from a friend…. :roll:)
Progress Update nights of 12/10-11
daytime:
I got worked over by life during these two days. I have been under a 3 day migraine that only nominally responded to meds, this significantly inferred with my mindfulness and motivation to practice. I still managed about 5 state checks per day, but they were of dubious quality. I am back on track today and have reaffirmed my intention to perform copious high quality state tests and aspirations to recognize the dream state.
nighttime:
Issues with my little one going to sleep decimated my own sleep on Wed. night. I estimate 4 hours total sleep, interrupted. On nights like this I throw out all intentions related to dreaming and just try to maximize restful sleep so that I can deal with work, home life, etc..live to fight another day. This being said, I snatched 2 fragments from the clutches of amnesia, one where I was suspicious of dream phenomena. Friday I woke up with nothing. I really didnt give it much effort as migraine forced me to leave work on Thursday and I really wanted to get a full, uninterrupted night's sleep after Thursday's low sleep night. I am in good shape today and will resume night practice in earnest this evening.
Also, I got Daniel Love's book, so I look forward to reading up on Lucidity.
There are times like that....you have the right attitude: regroup, and continue another day as soon as you can. I liked Daniel Love's book, there are some great tidbits in there.
I am sorry to hear about those significant challenges. Definitely chalk up a signifcant level of victory in the face of those challenges with your recall snatching and "suspicion of dream phenomena!" Not bad at all! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KonchogTashi
I quite like Daniel Love's "Are You Dreaming." I also found his dream peg memory system (page 188) very handy for quickly remembering 10 different sets of information. I have used it IWL and for recall when I want to doze back off.
Progress update 12/11-16
ugh. I really got crushed by a sinus infection. Poor sleep for two nights, both in terms of duration and quality. Missed 2 more days of work. Medication makes me drowsy and dulls awareness/mindfulness. This is a little frustrating, as I felt I was really making good progress with recall and that lucidity was *right there*, so a little bit of a setback.
Daytime practice:
I can honestly say I have not lapsed on state testing and intention setting. My numbers have dropped off due to the circumstances associated with illness, but I have not let a day lapse with out at least 5 state tests.
Nightime:
Pretty poor results. I abandoned WBTB and deliberate induction attempts and just coasted on the strength of my daytime activities. Obviously, no LDs were the result. Recall has also dropped off, 1 night with nothing and back to low quality recall on the others. On the positive side, this morning I am feeling much better and awoke with two full dreams to journal. During my morning meditation practice some more details from the first dream (including dialog) spontaneously came to me.
Prior to getting ill I was really seeing how some manner of WBTB is really critical for me. My recall was really improving, recollections were much more detailed and vivid, and the number of dreams recalled had basically doubled. My deep thanks to Fryingman for suggesting middle of the night awakenings for recall. Also, without some sort of WBTB, DILD seems pretty random. So one benefit of all this is that I can see the contrast between practicing with and without waking in the night for recall. I can say for me it is a pretty clear difference. Proceeding from here I can say that to make real progress I am going to have to implement middle of the night wakings for recall on most nights. Thankfully I have a winter break from work coming up and with it a flexible sleep schedule. I plan on using this time to carefully practice WBTB and MILD on most if not all nights.
Being sick is a bummer for dreaming, that's for sure (I think jet lag is even harder, but that may just be me). Even with lower day work and no night work, still reach for recall every time you find yourself awake, even if you don't feel well, to keep those dream recalling neural pathways well-lubed.
I am personally not a big fan of WBTB. Not that I think it doesn't work -- on the contrary, my own results I believe prove its effectiveness. I just don't like being awake during the night. If anything I try to keep WBTBs "micro" -- I stay in bed, do recall, set intention, and head back to sleep. But I don't always get to doing even that much if I'm low on sleep.
The good news is that you know what works for you. When you can return to the full night work, you'll be confident that the results will return, which they WILL!
When sick I just zonk out and focus on getting better like you did. By the way, just in case this is a possibility... I stopped fully plugging my nose and trying to breath through, for RC's IWL, for fear of sinus troubles. If you suspect nose plugs could have anything to do with it, you might want to ask your doctor. I will just simulate plugging my nose whenever I choose to do that RC IWL (using it for practicing "I'm lucid, what are my goals" and stabilize etc... I just fully plug it when I actually think or know that I'm dreaming and decide to do an RC to be sure. Most people agree that it is the most effective RC, so you might want to be sure before deciding to no longer use it. Lately I have been using finger through palm and/or looking at my hands and a brief RRC really stopping to reflect.Quote:
Originally Posted by KonchogTashi
Awesome!..this builds towards more frequent lucidity in the long run I feel so it is great that you kept that up.Quote:
Daytime practice:
I can honestly say I have not lapsed on state testing and intention setting. My numbers have dropped off due to the circumstances associated with illness, but I have not let a day lapse with out at least 5 state tests.
And WBTB's also greatly increase the chance for LD's!(with or without mild once your experience grows...though I still use SSILD) I usually get to sleep at a decent hour and have a regular sleep schedule and thus I am able to WBTB almost every night...sometimes more short than other times.Quote:
My deep thanks to Fryingman for suggesting middle of the night awakenings for recall. Also, without some sort of WBTB, DILD seems pretty random. So one benefit of all this is that I can see the contrast between practicing with and without waking in the night for recall. I can say for me it is a pretty clear difference. Proceeding from here I can say that to make real progress I am going to have to implement middle of the night wakings for recall on most nights. Thankfully I have a winter break from work coming up and with it a flexible sleep schedule. I plan on using this time to carefully practice WBTB and MILD on most if not all nights.
Thanks for the continued encouragement! Recall continues to be an issue for me (in my opinion) I had another night with nothing, a honestly felt a bit frustrated, but then this morning I recalled a long dream with very good detail, and had a little tiny LD, so my frustration vanished.Quote:
Originally Posted by FryingMan
I honestly still have some "fear" around WBTB due to past experiences of not being able to return to sleep, and as a result I too like to keep them short. I need to get a bit more courageous. Missing out on a few hours sleep is worth it in the long run.
Thanks for the tip here. When the sinus problems were at their height I was using the text morph test and hand check. In general on the rare occasions I have gotten lucid I have used hand check as my primary verification. I geek out on how crazy my hands can look. I like the nose pinch because it is so cut and dry. There is no misinterpreting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogelbise
I continue to try to keep this up. A problem I am noticing is that I have a pretty set schedule for most of the day, and as a result I am doing most of my checks in the same places, and even at the same times. I have been trying to concentrate on performing checks when I am out of my usual schedule and in more random situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogelbise
I think for me at this point I need some sort of WBTB, even a short one, to have much of a chance (other than random) at LD. With a WBTB I see how I am simultaneously employing an arsenal of techniques, interrupted sleep, a focused technique like MILD, timing with a later REM cycle, all while falling back on the general "background" technique of state testing and intention setting. I can really see how WBTB will *greatly* increase my chances of LD.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogelbise
Thanks once again for all the support, help, and accountability!
Progress update nights of 12/17-18
Daytime:
keeping up with the state testing and intention setting. I have been doing more tests involving digital clocks and text. Text is never a big component in my dreams, but I think the more I use the test, the more text will appear in dreamland. Getting in 10-15 tests for each of these two days.
Nightime:
Wednesday night was a bust. I had a later than normal bedtime which gave me only 5 hours total sleep. I woke in the middle of it with no recall. I woke in the morning for the final time and struggled, but came up with nothing. This was a bit frustrating honestly.
Thursday went better. I had some difficulty falling asleep so I probably only got 6 hours total sleep. I woke in the middle of the night for recall but had nothing. I got frustrated by this, but looking back it was needless as typically I don't have any recall in the middle of the night. I think this was just "sleep confusion" playing dirty tricks on my rational mind. It was difficult to fall back asleep, but I managed to and had a weird short lucid which kind of straddled the line between WILD and DILD.
I am aware, but there is just blackness. I "look" down and see my hands, they are pale and translucent, and my arms vanish just before the elbows. I instantly know that I am now dreaming. I clap my hands together and vigirously rub them, feeling the "friction." I do this for a few seconds, then pat down my dream body, waiting for visual elements to develop. I start to move around, feeling the motion of my dream body, but still without visual elements developing. Lucidity fades and a detailed dream develops (I think).
I think the dream I recalled (it was long and recall was very good with many clear details and dialogue). arose immediately after this brief lucidity as I was only asleep for about an hour. I am not counting as as an LD, but still is is encouraging!
I will probably update somewhat sporadically over the next two weeks as I will be off work and finding time to sit down at a computer will be more of a challenge. Don't think I've thrown in the towel though as I will be practicing carefully each night with WBTB and MILD as I will have the ability to sleep in and rack up 7-9 hours of sleep a night. Many LDs await!!
I can say the same thing. And I experienced it two nights ago. After about 5 hours of sleep, I risk just not falling back asleep again. Earlier than that, generally not a problem. I had a decision to make two nights ago where I found myself awake, felt drowsy enough to go back to sleep immediately, but decided to to recall instead, and I could *feel* the drowsiness evaporate as I went over the dream scenes. Ah well. It's something that will probably be a challenge for some of us. Training proper relaxation is the major way around this. And getting exercise so that our body/mind demands more sleep (I was also sedentary all that day, so that's part of it I'm sure).Quote:
Originally Posted by KonchogTashi
But you know what I've found: is that if instead of lying in bed frustrated that I can't sleep for hours, just getting up and sitting in a chair tends to make me sleepy! So sometimes the best thing that helps getting back to sleep is a proper WBTB!
Sure sounds like a lucid to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by KonchogTashi
You definitely have the right idea to look for other opportunities outside of your normal schedule to do checks. I would also recommend making sure you get some in during the 3 or so hours before heading to bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KonchogTashi
Until you get used to doing some length of wbtb and be able to go back to sleep afterwards, you can continue to limit them to mostly on the weekends and times when you can sleep in. For now, you could avoid them altogether when you need a good rest before any important events the next day or two out. That is how I started. I kept most WBTB's to the weekend before getting confidence that I can get back to sleep on almost all occasions. I would get significant periods of insomnia early on when I was still getting a feel for getting back to sleep after awareness work and SSILD.
And I agree with FM...looks like you had an LD! :)
Update 12/18-22
Daytime:
Keeping up with the state testing and intention setting. I have started developing the "text morph" state test along with nose pinch and hand check. Still getting 10-15 in a day.
Nighttime:
Continuing with the middle of the night wakings for recall. This has paid off in that my recall is getting much more detailed in terms of multiple scenes and clear recall of dialogue. When I fall back asleep I practice MILD as described in ETWOLD. This is generally getting me 2 dreams recalled/night. However, it has yet to produce any further LDs. Tonite will be my 4th consecutive night with interrupted sleep and MILD backed by daytime state testing, so here's to lucidity!
Progress update night of 12/23
Got lucid last night. It was very similar to my last two. Very dark, and very short, although this one was a bit longer than the last. As far as I can tell it was at the very end of the dream.
I woke up after 5 hours sleep. I had no recall. Stayed up for 20 minutes or so. Practiced MILD using an common dream setting for the visualization ( it then appeared in the dream, but I didn't notice).
Later in the dream I was in a warehouse and did a nose pinch ( it failed) then backed up with 2 hand checks ( my hands looked like a baby's feet???). It was so dark that I tried to stabilize by rubbing my hands, then walked through the dark until I came upon some stairs. I went up 3 or four stairs and backflipped off. Then the dream faded away to a completely black space. It got brighter, then I woke up.
I need to revisit my goals. For what to do after getting lucid. I just don't think clearly in those moments after recognizing the state. I need a clear plan to fall back on.
Hey that's great! Every lucid is a step forwards. I like to rehearse the moment of lucidity a few times a day: I count to 5 slowly while rubbing my hands, patting down my body, and looking around, and say "narrate the dream, engage, goals" -- it's a goal of mine to narrate the dream like Dreamer does while it's happening as a way to really engage and remember, and I go over some goals that I have, and I try to touch some things and preferably to eat something (like biting off my fingertip and using it as gum, Sensei's suggestion!). You can make up your own "I just got lucid" ritual, and go over it every day so that when you get lucid you avoid the "duh....." moments.
If you find yourself in a dark place, you can practice summoning: DCs, objects. use "pretend memories" to for example say "ah yes, there's a door to my <special lucid destination> right behind me!" and so forth.
If you find yourself in complete darkness I like to walk and imagine I'm doing a flying take-off superman style, I did this once and it got me right out of the void.
Update up to night of 12/26
Daytime:
I have been keeping up with state testing and intention setting as previously discussed. I have been able to up my count, now it is more continuous testing or more than 20 discrete tests. I also took Fryingman's advice and began to practice a post recognition ritual: rubbing hands, patting down my body and saying " increase clarity"
Nighttime:
I have been setting intent to wake and record dreams. This usually does not result in recall at the first wake up, but I get up, do a few state tests, and MILD back to sleep. This paid off handsomely last night, I was rewarded with my longest LD to date, I estimate about 5 minutes of lucidity. I got to fly, recite mantras, explore a location, and interact with DCs. AWESOME! I feel like this was a breakthrough as I got the hang ( somewhat) of grounding myself and continually stabilizing the dream. Thanks again for all the help, support, and great advice!
☀️Lucid Flying & Party Exploring
WBTB/MILD I am in my house on -------- There is a party or something and I am awakened. I realize I have to pee, for some reason I go outside and start to walk down oakdale. It is night and I am at the end of the street near white oak. The street is wet as if it had just rained. I walk faster and faster down the street. This begins to seem odd. I check my hands. The Palm is large and flat, and the fingers short and thin. I do a nose pinch, it fails. I know I am dreaming. I start to rub my hands together. I do a final test by jumping into the air, willing myself to go as high as possible. I jump and easily clear the top of a very high tree. Mid air I continue to rub my hands together and pat down my chest and legs. I fly around a bit above the trees and remember I had a goal of saying the vajrasattva mantra, I repeat the short mantra several times. and come down in a yard. I continue to tell myself "this is a dream, I am dreaming." I decide to go into the house. It is a single story with a front porch. I do another nose pinch test to make sure I am still dreaming. It fails and I reach down and turn the handle. The door opens and I go inside. The house has wood floors and is not furnished. I look around and see two African Americans middle aged, going down some stairs into the basement. I follow them down and there is a party going on downstairs it is well lit, the walls are paneled with light wood, the carpets are cream colored. There are maybe 15 people at the party. Somehow I know it is a "work" party. Someone starts talking to me, I excuse myself and do a nose pinch test to confirm I am still dreaming. I am. A young woman introduces me to another young woman saying that I work at "the service desk" the second woman asks how it is and I reply " you know, it's service." I ask her "who are you?" She blinks a bit and looks flustered. "Glukert." She replies. I wake up. (4:35) Lucid about 3-5 minutes.
Congrats! "Glukert!" Ah, dreams are so funny/fabulous.
Well, well done: RCs, hand rubbing, pat-down, goal memory. Great dream, very exciting.
Most awesome KT!! This is a very nice achievement that you can repeat and build on! :) If I have one word of advice, it is to keep up your practices. I have a tendency to back off whenever I feel I have made a break through and that works against me. Everone is different but I am sure you can agree that good stuff comes from keeping up your practices.
Awesome job with your LD remembering to do all that you did to stay lucid and complete a goal!!