How to Have LD Orgasms

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I consider myself a fairly accomplished oneironaut, but one area I've consistently struggled with is having lucid sex. 9 times out of 10 the dream becomes too unstable, and I either wake up or the situation morphs into something weird and I just have to stop. On the occasions where I manage to hold the dream together, the sensations and visuals lack both vividness and realism. Sadly, I've never been able to reach what I would call a real climax...at most, I've have pleasant sensations that sort of build up but never really go anywhere.

Anyway, there are plenty of testimonies out there that would suggest it is indeed possible to have an orgasm in a lucid dream -- my question is how? The whole idea seems paradoxical to me. If getting too excited causes a dream to unravel, how does one even get close to having an orgasm without waking up? Something just doesn't add up. The only thing I've found that may help me in this pursuit is this topic. Other than that, I'm at a loss because it seems that the very nature of an orgasm is in direct conflict with how people generally keep their lucid dreams from ending. So, if you're able to have a real orgasms in your LDs, I'd love to hear how you do it.

The question is a bit large. What you're asking is how to avoid waking up; in situations like this being woken is often from over-excitement. A person can avoid over-excitement by having better control of themselves. For those who have a bit of experience with self-control and sex, they'll find it works similar in dreams as it does in waking. For example, when things are getting out of hand, you dial things back; take it slower; regain composure. Then before you lose the appeal of having sex altogether, you work to bring yourself back up to speed. It's a balance...just like lucidity.

The orgasm itself is another matter. The body convulses and that's much more difficult to keep together. I'd think women have it better than men in this department. For the simple reason that women have different levels of orgasm. There are orgasms that are a 2 on the Richter scale and others that are a 9. Men, from what I've been told, have only one type of orgasm (minus men who claim to have multiple orgasms), but I can't say much on that matter.

I believe I have experienced orgasms in dreams (I think in a lucid dream), although maybe they were pseudo-orgasms, but it felt good enough at the time. It is rare, though, usually, like you said, lucid dream sex doesn't really climax, I either wake up or it just sort of ends and the dream continues.

I guess to get better at it, you need to practice keeping focus and awareness during lucid dream sex. I try to practice this myself, whenever I find myself with the opportunity. I just try my usual stabilization techniques while in the act. I often tend to have very casual sexual interactions in my lucid dreams.

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Originally Posted by RedKali

The orgasm itself is another matter. The body convulses and that's much more difficult to keep together. I'd think women have it better than men in this department. For the simple reason that women have different levels of orgasm. There are orgasms that are a 2 on the Richter scale and others that are a 9. Men, from what I've been told, have only one type of orgasm (minus men who claim to have multiple orgasms), but I can't say much on that matter.

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I'd say from my own experience, men can have different levels of orgasms.

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Originally Posted by RedKali

The question is a bit large. What you're asking is how to avoid waking up; in situations like this being woken is often from over-excitement. A person can avoid over-excitement by having better control of themselves. For those who have a bit of experience with self-control and sex, they'll find it works similar in dreams as it does in waking. For example, when things are getting out of hand, you dial things back; take it slower; regain composure. Then before you lose the appeal of having sex altogether, you work to bring yourself back up to speed. It's a balance...just like lucidity.

The orgasm itself is another matter. The body convulses and that's much more difficult to keep together.

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While I'm sure slowing things down and regaining composure will work to prolong the experience, it sort of avoids the core issue. The whole point of sex is to reach an orgasm. Since an orgasm is the physical and emotional sensation experienced at the peak of sexual excitation, there isn't much of a point in having sex if you are not able to allow yourself to reach that peak of excitement.

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Originally Posted by insideout

I believe I have experienced orgasms in dreams (I think in a lucid dream), although maybe they were pseudo-orgasms, but it felt good enough at the time. It is rare, though, usually, like you said, lucid dream sex doesn't really climax, I either wake up or it just sort of ends and the dream continues.

I guess to get better at it, you need to practice keeping focus and awareness during lucid dream sex. I try to practice this myself, whenever I find myself with the opportunity. I just try my usual stabilization techniques while in the act. I often tend to have very casual sexual interactions in my lucid dreams.

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So something along the lines of rubbing your hands together? I believe I've tried that in the past, but I can't recall a specific instance so perhaps I haven't given it a fair chance to work.

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The whole point of sex is to reach an orgasm.

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I completely disagree. Not that I think that's a terrible idea by any stretch, just that there are other purposes to the act. The Hindu and Buddhists believe sex extends past the physical. Orgasm control (including denial) is seen in multiple religions, for various purposes. I'm aware of other perversions where orgasm is most definitely not the goal, but those would be inappropriate here.

Your goal is clear. Remaining in a dream during and after climax is control and awareness dependent. Enhance those and you'll see progress. Also, you should have a solid platform of stabilization techniques already under your belt.

I also have to agree that the point of sex doesn't have to be to reach orgasm. It's certainly nice if it leads to that, but not necessary. Unless you just want to get off, in which case, yeah, I guess that's the main point, but you could just masturbate to reach that goal.

Anyway, I think if you can learn to stabilize during dream sex, than stabilizing any other time should be easy.

Perhaps I should clarify that my earlier comments were not referring to sex in real life. As the title would suggest, the context of this discussion is LD sex, and more specifically, how to achieve an orgasm whilst having it. The various reasons why people have sex, while interesting, is not really the point of this discussion. Whether you're doing for 'spiritual purposes' or just to indulge in a sexual fantasy, having an orgasm necessitates a certain level of excitement, and that level of excitement seems to be incompatible with maintaining dream stability.

Since that one comment seems to be leading us off topic (and is otherwise irrelevant), I'm going to edit my post to keep thing moving in the right direction. Fair enough?

any situation or event in a dream that is too exciting creates an automatic self destruction type reaction from your ego. The thing is, the stable quality of your dream exists to the extent that you support it with beliefs. This might sound confusing but, if for example: you are in an LD and you realize that you can ask your subconscious awareness for inspiration/imaginative insights, when these insights confront you, one of two things will happen, either you will doubt in your own potential to receive such significant insight and wake up (disbelief), or you will let go of the need to judge your own ability to comprehend insights that are beyond your comprehension/belief and witness their unlikely existence. The key to keeping a lucid dream stable is confidence. The reason for this is, anchoring in dreams relies on a trick that lets you leave your conscious judgement (ego) by attempting to prove to it that what you are experiencing in indeed real. The way you do this is by observing your own projection (which multiplies your belief in the fact that it exists) or the opposite, either way, what you're doing is escaping the urge to judge your awareness. This applies to any degree of emotional excitement which can cause you to wake up. What i'm trying to explain is that in order for you to keep the dream rolling, you need to force your ego to believe that your experience is real, and forget that it's fake. Basically emotions are the fuel to either structure, or collapse your dreams. If you are in a realistic LD and you get "too excited" you're basically not confident in the reality of the situation, causing it to disappear. It's to do with your doubt towards how believable your dream is. Basically as soon as you stop judging the reality of your dream, your emotions will make it more vivid and realistic than it was before as you become more in sync with the reality of it, instead of the contrary where your emotions of disbelief dissolve the dream. Positive (non judgmental) emotions (confidence/acceptance/letting go of beliefs/gratitude) stabilize the dream and submerge you further into it. Where negative judgmental emotions destabilize dreams. (two poles of the same magnetic force (attraction/repulsion).

If you'd like to understand this in a nutshell, relate it to day dreams. When you have them they usually happen while you "zone out", all that's going on is you're forgetting that it's impossible to see daydreams (loss of judgement/non resistance). As soon as something external distracts you, you wake up out of the daydream because you realize it was only a daydream(your ego proved the non-existence of the dream by becoming aware of objective evidence). So really all you're doing to daydream/dream/LD is believing that what you're imagining is real.

Stability of LD is a delicate balance between your belief in whats happening (subconscious experience) and your belief in your ego (conscious judgement).

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

Perhaps I should clarify that my earlier comments were not referring to sex in real life. As the title would suggest, the context of this discussion is LD sex, and more specifically, how to achieve an orgasm whilst having it. The various reasons why people have sex, while interesting, is not really the point of this discussion. Whether you're doing for 'spiritual purposes' or just to indulge in a sexual fantasy, having an orgasm necessitates a certain level of excitement, and that level of excitement seems to be incompatible with maintaining dream stability.

Since that one comment seems to be leading us off topic (and is otherwise irrelevant), I'm going to edit my post to keep thing moving in the right direction. Fair enough?

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Considering all the testimonies i have read on this subject, I would say that I have an unusual ability to achieve LD O's as I have had many. I have had both types, the pseudo orgasms and the real ones that leave a mess. I cant say there is on main thing that allows me to do this, but here are a few. (1) No foreplay, get right to business (2) Rubbing hands prior to the point in which awakes you, not when the dream starts to fade. (3) Don't focus on the DC too much, I tend to grey out their face a bit and not allow them to be too vivid. Hope this helps.........

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Originally Posted by AstroFlyer

Considering all the testimonies i have read on this subject, I would say that I have an unusual ability to achieve LD O's as I have had many. I have had both types, the pseudo orgasms and the real ones that leave a mess. I cant say there is on main thing that allows me to do this, but here are a few. (1) No foreplay, get right to business (2) Rubbing hands prior to the point in which awakes you, not when the dream starts to fade. (3) Don't focus on the DC too much, I tend to grey out their face a bit and not allow them to be too vivid. Hope this helps.........

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Makes sense. You keep stable by not overly investing into the scene (lack of visual stimuli). This might seem to contradict what blizzardeisgns is saying on how you have to be fully convinced of where you are, but the ideas are similar. The issue both address is dream stability. Each person acquires their own archetypes to help with this.

TheUncanny, that one post was relevant to the OP. How and why we do things (our beliefs) are incorporated into the archetypes we use for successful LDs. If one archetype fails, another can be introduced. Beliefs pave the way for the creation of new archetypes. It's yet another way to sustain stability.

Or maybe shout in an LD "I want to experience an orgasm" and see what happens :P

So I had a DILD last night. My level of lucidity was pretty meh, but I did remember this discussion and decided to try a stabilization technique during sex. Per usual, the dream began to fade right in the middle of the act, so I rubbed my hands together and that did seem to keep the dream going. The level of realism in this particular LD was good, but the vividness of the sensations we're lacking. No orgasm of course, but overall I was still happy with the experience, particularly because of the realism and the fact that the dream remained stable even after the sex. It's a good start.

Blizzardesigns,
Perhaps there is a sense of disconnect between myself and the dream, making my connection to the dream weak. Add a small amount of excitement and poof, the dream is gone. However, if I were to have more "buy in" to what was going on, perhaps my connection to the dream would strengthen, allowing it to withstand higher levels of excitement without collapsing. That sounds like it could work, but I wonder there is another way to strengthen my connection to the dream without having to forfeit some (or all) of my lucidity in the process. It seems like a good place to start, but perhaps not the best long-term solution? Or do you think there is a way to "believe" the dream while still being lucid?

AstroFlyer,
First off, I'm jealous. As far as your tips, I don't generally do any foreplay so I'm probably okay there. For #2, after last night's LD I'm definitely going to make it a standard practice to keep things stable. For #3, one of the recurring issues I've had is a lack of vividness. Don't get me wrong, I can see how dulling down the details can help keep the excitement at bay, but ultimately I would like to ramp up the level of detail. Never the less, I will try this too because, hey, it may work.

RedKali,
If I understand correctly, are you suggesting that I use a different motivation for having LD sex? I did read a tutorial that said making an emotional connection with the DC can help things along in the sex department (even if that connection is a farce). For example, eye contact in particular can help you establish that connection.

Maus,
Why not, might as well try that too!

remember in a dream that if you don't pay attention to something it will cease to exist, so don't forget to spare some thought you your surroundings or you'll end up in the void

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

Blizzardesigns,
Perhaps there is a sense of disconnect between myself and the dream, making my connection to the dream weak. Add a small amount of excitement and poof, the dream is gone. However, if I were to have more "buy in" to what was going on, perhaps my connection to the dream would strengthen, allowing it to withstand higher levels of excitement without collapsing. That sounds like it could work, but I wonder there is another way to strengthen my connection to the dream without having to forfeit some (or all) of my lucidity in the process. It seems like a good place to start, but perhaps not the best long-term solution? Or do you think there is a way to "believe" the dream while still being lucid?

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Basically what I was attempting to explain was that the secret to lucid dreaming is to "forfeit" your desire for control, you need to accept the fact that your subconscious is really in control, and when you let it "take the reins" you are still in full control, because you're consciously aware of your choices, meaning you can emotionally attract any dream scene you can emotionally mimic. The thing about extremely stimulating events in dreams is you either need to go and have that experience in real life (a bunch of times), or understand why your beliefs are contending with your desires. Basically beliefs are memories, so if you don't already have a similar memory it won't seem nostalgic enough to be considered realistic. Or you can just ignore your memories and dive into the depths of your subconscious which doesn't need a conscious belief filter. Either way, the way to stay lucid is to let go of your conscious constructs and beliefs, or they will deconstruct your subconscious constructs.

I think the problem most people have when attempting to stay lucid is a simple defense mechanism of the ego. You're getting to what you truly want, and then your ego pulls out the ideology of (for example) never getting what you want (past) which creates a "consciously unrealistic" atmosphere. The emotions that follow cause you to remember the thoughts that support that ideology such as: "I want this to continue, I don't' want the dream to collapse, I don't want to lose this moment." which literally implies subconscious emotions that express that AS: "I don't want this to continue, I want the dream to collapse, I want to lose this moment." Because your conscious fears will surface as inverse judgement which imply their opposite meaning. By the time you realize all these thoughts have went to your head your subconscious gets the hint that you don't find it believable enough to desire. So pretty much you are waking up because you don't believe in the imaginative memory of your subconscious construct due to your own conscious judgement which is based on the memories you have actually collected personally. This in essence is the biggest problem with self confidence, I would presume. So many people die in their grave with all of their unique ideas, never expressing their true potential, so many beautiful ideas that never got to exist because of self doubt and absence of confidence. I think the key to this problem is the understanding of the fact that just because you have not experienced your idea yet, does not mean it would not be the worth exploring the possibility of. Most people come up with the most incredible inventions daily, and never think twice to consider the profound significance of their insights because they simply don't believe in themselves. That is a little off topic, but the controlling idea of that is letting go of the need to disprove experiences based on the past, the past does not imply the future.

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Originally Posted by cooleymd

remember in a dream that if you don't pay attention to something it will cease to exist, so don't forget to spare some thought you your surroundings or you'll end up in the void

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Nicely put!

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

Basically what I was attempting to explain was that the secret to lucid dreaming is to "forfeit" your desire for control, you need to accept the fact that your subconscious is really in control, and when you let it "take the reins" you are still in full control, because you're consciously aware of your choices, meaning you can emotionally attract any dream scene you can emotionally mimic.

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Ah okay, that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

The thing about extremely stimulating events in dreams is you either need to go and have that experience in real life (a bunch of times), or understand why your beliefs are contending with your desires. Basically beliefs are memories, so if you don't already have a similar memory it won't seem nostalgic enough to be considered realistic. Or you can just ignore your memories and dive into the depths of your subconscious which doesn't need a conscious belief filter. Either way, the way to stay lucid is to let go of your conscious constructs and beliefs, or they will deconstruct your subconscious constructs.

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Well, having been married for 6 years affords you the advantage of having plenty of experiences to draw from, so I don't imagine that's the issue. It could be that my approach is too "one-sided" however, i.e. not allowing the dream enough space to do its thing, and so it just glitches out/crashes.

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

I think the problem most people have when attempting to stay lucid is a simple defense mechanism of the ego. You're getting to what you truly want, and then your ego pulls out the ideology of (for example) never getting what you want (past) which creates a "consciously unrealistic" atmosphere. The emotions that follow cause you to remember the thoughts that support that ideology such as: "I want this to continue, I don't' want the dream to collapse, I don't want to lose this moment." which literally implies subconscious emotions that express that AS: "I don't want this to continue, I want the dream to collapse, I want to lose this moment." Because your conscious fears will surface as inverse judgement which imply their opposite meaning. By the time you realize all these thoughts have went to your head your subconscious gets the hint that you don't find it believable enough to desire. So pretty much you are waking up because you don't believe in the imaginative memory of your subconscious construct due to your own conscious judgement which is based on the memories you have actually collected personally. This in essence is the biggest problem with self confidence, I would presume. So many people die in their grave with all of their unique ideas, never expressing their true potential, so many beautiful ideas that never got to exist because of self doubt and absence of confidence. I think the key to this problem is the understanding of the fact that just because you have not experienced your idea yet, does not mean it would not be the worth exploring the possibility of. Most people come up with the most incredible inventions daily, and never think twice to consider the profound significance of their insights because they simply don't believe in themselves. That is a little off topic, but the controlling idea of that is letting go of the need to disprove experiences based on the past, the past does not imply the future.

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I believe I understand what you mean by the subconscious doing the inverse of what your conscious self asks for (because of underlying doubt or perhaps a fear of failing). I have "failed" many times in this particular LD endeavor (so many wasted dreams), so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some pessimism lurking in my subconscious somewhere. But if that is the case, the grip of that pessimism should weaken with each small success, such as the one I had last night. I'll just keep chipping away until I get it.

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

Nicely put!



Ah okay, that makes sense.



Well, having been married for 6 years affords you the advantage of having plenty of experiences to draw from, so I don't imagine that's the issue. It could be that my approach is too "one-sided" however, i.e. not allowing the dream enough space to do its thing, and so it just glitches out/crashes.



I believe I understand what you mean by the subconscious doing the inverse of what your conscious self asks for (because of underlying doubt or perhaps a fear of failing). I have "failed" many times in this particular LD endeavor (so many wasted dreams), so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some pessimism lurking in my subconscious somewhere. But if that is the case, the grip of that pessimism should weaken with each small success, such as the one I had last night. I'll just keep chipping away until I get it.

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To put it simply your awareness directs the flow of electromagnetic gravity while your emotions dictate the direction of the spiral of the electromagnetic gravity (emotions), either up (positive) or down (negative).
Attachment 8167

Your opinion of the object creates it, and your awareness is what records memories (belief) of it's existence. Your attention to an object in a dream sustains it's existence as well, and the thoughts that go through your head while looking at an object are like metaphors for the next dream shift.

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

So I had a DILD last night. . . . It's a good start.
RedKali,
If I understand correctly, are you suggesting that I use a different motivation for having LD sex? I did read a tutorial that said making an emotional connection with the DC can help things along in the sex department (even if that connection is a farce). For example, eye contact in particular can help you establish that connection.

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Congrats on the progress.

No, I'm not necessarily suggesting to change your motivation. What I was saying was keep the end-game, just find another method (archetype) to reach it. So let's say your new archetype means changing your motivation--then sure, you can do that. If you have another archetype you'd like to use that keeps your current motivation--that works too. There are many ways to reach your goal, changing the motivation (or perhaps understanding it more thoroughly) is just one method to reach your end goal.

There's great suggestions in this thread for other ways to approach this.

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

To put it simply your awareness directs the flow of electromagnetic gravity while your emotions dictate the direction of the spiral of the electromagnetic gravity (emotions), either up (positive) or down (negative).
Attachment 8167

Your opinion of the object creates it, and your awareness is what records memories (belief) of it's existence. Your attention to an object in a dream sustains it's existence as well, and the thoughts that go through your head while looking at an object are like metaphors for the next dream shift.

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The gravity metaphor went right over my head.

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Originally Posted by RedKali

Congrats on the progress.

No, I'm not necessarily suggesting to change your motivation. What I was saying was keep the end-game, just find another method (archetype) to reach it. So let's say your new archetype means changing your motivation--then sure, you can do that. If you have another archetype you'd like to use that keeps your current motivation--that works too. There are many ways to reach your goal, changing the motivation (or perhaps understanding it more thoroughly) is just one method to reach your end goal.

There's great suggestions in this thread for other ways to approach this.

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Indeed, and I'll definitely report back once I've had a chance to try them out.

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

To put it simply your awareness directs the flow of electromagnetic gravity ......

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Sure, lol :chuckle:

I have seen a lot of things contradicting experiences that many have had in here. :P I think that there are two major problems with dream sex:
When we have sex in a dream
Usually low awareness in dreams causes us to get distracted and have sex. I call it "caveman mode" (Fryingman coined the term). There are three things that are always active in the brain, and that are used in the most primal part of the brain, and are the most deeply ingrained into each brain. Flight, Fight, sex. I am sure that you will notice that a lot of LDs become these three things with little awareness. You either decide that something is bad and wake yourself up or start running. Notice something bad and start fighting it like crazy. Notice that something is sexy and start sexing it up. The low awareness usually means that a REM cycle is ending and it jumps up near the end of a dream while you wake up. When you finally get to the sex, you are already in the middle of waking.

You know how to wake yourself up, unconsciously you do this during the sex or during the orgasm
Either expectations or attention (both are guided by experience), you know how to wake yourself up. Because of threads like this, disbelief in yourself, or past experiences because of the previous reason, you unconsciously wake yourself up.

Here is a real piece of advice. Stabilizing can be done by reducing the amount of visual input and reducing all plot elements down to a single easy to grasp thought. The idea is that your brain is lagging like when Netflix is buffering. The amount of information it is trying to render into virtual reality is exceeding its capacity. Reducing the need to render an entire scene can allow it to catch up and start processing properly again.

This is why Astroflyer may have success with limiting the visuals (blurred details), and why rubbing hands together works. However, when the goal is to continue having sex you obviously would like to be able to stay focused and stopping to rub your hands is a bummer. Astroflyer also points out that you should stabilize prior to the dream failing, not after it is already failing, and I completely agree. What I am going to disagree with is the no fore-play item, and I will say why below.

Here is the secret: It takes a long time to reach orgasm in a dream because there is no actual friction and such, so you may be looking at 5 minutes or more. Well, how many of you have been able to maintain your lucids for 5 minutes even when not distracting yourself with sex? So you must build constant acts of stabilizing into the experience without ruining the sexual experience. Do this by stopping every 30-45 seconds and reducing your attention down to sexual fore play like activities. An example is to focus on one of your DCs body parts and reduce every other visual while you tease it with your fingers or mouth (just you and that breast, neck, earlobe, whatever.) After the dream feels stable get back to the thrusty stuff, but only for another 30-45 seconds.

Basically, if you young men understand what women would like in sex, and act as if pleasing the DC with some intimacy actually matters, then you can keep it going long enough to finish (in the dream).

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Originally Posted by sivason

Here is a real piece of advice. Stabilizing can be done by reducing the amount of visual input and reducing all plot elements down to a single easy to grasp thought. The idea is that your brain is lagging like when Netflix is buffering. The amount of information it is trying to render into virtual reality is exceeding its capacity. Reducing the need to render an entire scene can allow it to catch up and start processing properly again.

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It's funny you should say that, I've had that same sort of problem with flying as well (specifically flying too high). If I reach a certain elevation, I can sometimes see the "edge" of the dreamscape, and beyond it is some sort of a sky-looking void. It reminds me of the earlier "open map" video games actually, such as those for N64 or PS1. Occasionally the game would glitch and you end up passing through the ground and falling into an infinite abyss of unprogrammed virtual space. That's basically what would happen with me.

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Originally Posted by sivason

Here is the secret: It takes a long time to reach orgasm in a dream because there is no actual friction and such, so you may be looking at 5 minutes or more. Well, how many of you have been able to maintain your lucids for 5 minutes even when not distracting yourself with sex? So you must build constant acts of stabilizing into the experience without ruining the sexual experience. Do this by stopping every 30-45 seconds and reducing your attention down to sexual fore play like activities. An example is to focus on one of your DCs body parts and reduce every other visual while you tease it with your fingers or mouth (just you and that breast, neck, earlobe, whatever.) After the dream feels stable get back to the thrusty stuff, but only for another 30-45 seconds.

Basically, if you young men understand what women would like in sex, and act as if pleasing the DC with some intimacy actually matters, then you can keep it going long enough to finish (in the dream).

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Sounds reasonable, I'll give it a try.

I saw this thread a little awhile ago, I haven't kept up with the recent replies, and i'm not an accomplished LD'er. Tonight was the second night since joining the forums that I had a lucid dream. I used this opportunity to try some LD sex, I 'climaxed' many times in my dream, and just kept going, the last one was the strongest not only did it wake me up but I physically climaxed in my pajama bottoms. I had to under go stabilization 3 times, but I just stopped did the look at your hands really closely and returned to my dream scene where the DC involved at the time was just waiting patiently for me.

When I saw your thread, I didn't think it would be possible to a certain degree, but it happened and it is possible sir.

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

The gravity metaphor went right over my head.

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Originally Posted by sivason

Sure, lol :chuckle:

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the gravity of your thoughts create the "momentum" of your emotions. thoughts translate to reality via metaphor.

Think of this quote when trying to understand this idea, it is pretty simple.

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/u...1f62524c0f.jpg

What i'm trying to get across here isn't the mechanics of gravity or metaphors, it's the idea that your thoughts translate into metaphors which are dreams, a collection of thoughts = a belief,
a belief= a memory, a collection of memories = dream/reality. So if you're doubting the memory of your experience you will dissolve the dream as your belief dissolves. Memories are of the imagination, so all it means is that you have to be conscious of your judgement in the present moment in a dream, because if you start getting exhilarated and distracted by the excitement of the experience you will unknowingly begin to remember a set of memories which relate to the experience you are having, whether that's judgement, prudence, pessimism, rationalism, foresight or criticism it will destabilize the dream. The only real way I would think of anchoring the dream is by literally paying attention to the dream and NOT your judgement of it. If you set your attention on the dream long enough, you will naturally (subconsciously) pull out relative memories which can only serve to strengthen and lengthen the stability and realism of the dream. Like if you look at the goosebumps on your skin, and watch the hairs you will subconsciously revive (remember) memories that describe what you think you are seeing. This observation stabilizes, the moment you begin to ponder off with your thoughts, is the moment the spin (gravity) of your thoughts start gaining momentum in a way that destabilizes the experience because your attention is elsewhere. Attention = Intention.

It's all about being as passive as possible and not letting judgement trigger a set of emotional reactions. Just let go of your own judgement, and see the world (dream) for what it really is, and it will never destabilize.
The destabilization effect can also be easily understood when considering the movie Inception, buddy's wife keeps "coming into" his dreams, it's because he holds an emotional attachment to the belief of her existence after the denial of her death, similarly any denial/doubt (belief) can trigger a similar reaction in other ways which can intervene with any dream experiences.

Another way to understand this is, the stability during excitation in dreams is dependent on the focal of the dream. So you have to focus with all of your concentration on one spot that you'd like to be the constant of that dream either look at a certain detail, and attempt to concentrate on it while with your peripheral vision paying attention to the changes that occur around the focal point. Everywhere you look will stay a constant, everywhere your peripheral vision is will change into the metaphors of your thought forms. So if you'd like to keep the female the only constant, pay real attention to her. However don't ever get distracted by your peripheral vision or the focus will shift to that.

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

It's funny you should say that, I've had that same sort of problem with flying as well (specifically flying too high). If I reach a certain elevation, I can sometimes see the "edge" of the dreamscape, and beyond it is some sort of a sky-looking void. It reminds me of the earlier "open map" video games actually, such as those for N64 or PS1. Occasionally the game would glitch and you end up passing through the ground and falling into an infinite abyss of unprogrammed virtual space. That's basically what would happen with me.



Sounds reasonable, I'll give it a try.

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I've been wondering about this "dream computational complexity" situation. Can the mind sustain highly detailed open vistas for long periods (multiple minutes at least) while lucid (or non-lucid), or does experiencing these scenes absolutely necessitate frequent "recovery" (reboot as sivason says) periods? I suppose everyone's different, but it's interesting to consider.

I've experienced amazingly detailed ultra high def vistas in LDs that ended abruptly after just a 10-15 seconds, for no reason that I can think of other than perhaps: 1) REM was over, 2) the scene was too complex (individual trees with branches stretching into the far horizon).

Last night I had an amazing semi-lucid (maybe low-level lucid) that included an approx 1 minute stretch of ultra high def jet flying over a highly detailed nighttime city scape with freeways, city lights, tons of objects in the sky, etc., it's probably the most amazing thing I've ever seen in a dream, and it lasted a decent long while. Maybe the extra processing drain that being highly lucid makes sustaining these highly detailed, sweeping vista scenes harder to maintain? Maybe I could sustain it so long (compared to my previous ones) because my lucidity was very low/in the background?

As for dream orgasm, I've thought of a technique but never remember to try it out, but since there is nothing physical involved, I think one need not have a long time leading up to it. I've though of summoning a big, red "c*m now!" button and just slamming it to see what happens, skipping all the stuff in the middle. I know another good dreamer (to remain anonymous :) ) who has mentioned that you can just fast forward right to the climax since it's all in your head, anyway. As for me, the journey is the point, so I don't want to do that, but may try it just to see if I can get it to work.

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Originally Posted by 11Greg

I saw this thread a little awhile ago, I haven't kept up with the recent replies, and i'm not an accomplished LD'er. Tonight was the second night since joining the forums that I had a lucid dream. I used this opportunity to try some LD sex, I 'climaxed' many times in my dream, and just kept going, the last one was the strongest not only did it wake me up but I physically climaxed in my pajama bottoms. I had to under go stabilization 3 times, but I just stopped did the look at your hands really closely and returned to my dream scene where the DC involved at the time was just waiting patiently for me.

When I saw your thread, I didn't think it would be possible to a certain degree, but it happened and it is possible sir.

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I'm encouraged by how well stabilization techniques appear to work for this application (not just in this thread, but other one's too). I think somewhere in my mind I half-assumed that an orgasm would be too much for a dream to handle, but I'm really starting to wonder if it's just an unfortunate schema I gave myself at some point. After all, wet dreams aren't all that unheard of, and there are plenty of people (such as yourself) who swear dream orgasms are possible.

I bolded the part of your response that mentioned pajama bottoms, as I wonder if sleep attire has any sort of impact on one's ability to reach a climax in a dream. I also wonder if the physical body moves at all during dream sex, and if so, if there is any difference between wearing boxers vs. pajamas vs. sleeping nude (or if the type of material comes into play, such a cotton vs. silk).

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Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

It's all about being as passive as possible and not letting judgement trigger a set of emotional reactions. Just let go of your own judgement, and see the world (dream) for what it really is, and it will never destabilize.
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Another way to understand this is, the stability during excitation in dreams is dependent on the focal of the dream. So you have to focus with all of your concentration on one spot that you'd like to be the constant of that dream either look at a certain detail, and attempt to concentrate on it while with your peripheral vision paying attention to the changes that occur around the focal point. Everywhere you look will stay a constant, everywhere your peripheral vision is will change into the metaphors of your thought forms. So if you'd like to keep the female the only constant, pay real attention to her. However don't ever get distracted by your peripheral vision or the focus will shift to that.

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I'm definitely going to give the "passive observer" approach a try. About the second part, I've now heard conflicting things and both methods seem to make sense. On one hand, it makes sense that you'd want to pay some attention to your surroundings to keep the dreamscape itself from destabilizing. On the other hand, it also make sense that you can stabilize a dream by doing the exact opposite, and narrowing your focus down to some sort of small detail (to counteract the whole "information-overload" issue). What I wonder is if it would be best to just narrow my focus the whole time (like on her body) or if I should be looking around and taking in the rest of the dream to keep it from dissolving away?

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Originally Posted by FryingMan

I've been wondering about this "dream computational complexity" situation. Can the mind sustain highly detailed open vistas for long periods (multiple minutes at least) while lucid (or non-lucid), or does experiencing these scenes absolutely necessitate frequent "recovery" (reboot as sivason says) periods? I suppose everyone's different, but it's interesting to consider.

I've experienced amazingly detailed ultra high def vistas in LDs that ended abruptly after just a 10-15 seconds, for no reason that I can think of other than perhaps: 1) REM was over, 2) the scene was too complex (individual trees with branches stretching into the far horizon).

Last night I had an amazing semi-lucid (maybe low-level lucid) that included an approx 1 minute stretch of ultra high def jet flying over a highly detailed nighttime city scape with freeways, city lights, tons of objects in the sky, etc., it's probably the most amazing thing I've ever seen in a dream, and it lasted a decent long while. Maybe the extra processing drain that being highly lucid makes sustaining these highly detailed, sweeping vista scenes harder to maintain? Maybe I could sustain it so long (compared to my previous ones) because my lucidity was very low/in the background?

As for dream orgasm, I've thought of a technique but never remember to try it out, but since there is nothing physical involved, I think one need not have a long time leading up to it. I've though of summoning a big, red "c*m now!" button and just slamming it to see what happens, skipping all the stuff in the middle. I know another good dreamer (to remain anonymous :) ) who has mentioned that you can just fast forward right to the climax since it's all in your head, anyway. As for me, the journey is the point, so I don't want to do that, but may try it just to see if I can get it to work.

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Yeah I've thought about that too, but the brain is an extremely powerful supercomputer. Given how realistic and expansive video games are nowadays (and how little processing power those consoles have versus the brain), it makes me curious as to the exact nature of the "bogging down" problem. For me personally, I don't think I've ever run into this issue with nLDs, which makes me even more curious as to what is going on. Is it really just our mind trying to process more information than it can handle, or does it have something specifically to do with lucidity? I have no clue.

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Originally Posted by TheUncanny

I'm definitely going to give the "passive observer" approach a try. About the second part, I've now heard conflicting things and both methods seem to make sense. On one hand, it makes sense that you'd want to pay some attention to your surroundings to keep the dreamscape itself from destabilizing. On the other hand, it also make sense that you can stabilize a dream by doing the exact opposite, and narrowing your focus down to some sort of small detail (to counteract the whole "information-overload" issue). What I wonder is if it would be best to just narrow my focus the whole time (like on her body) or if I should be looking around and taking in the rest of the dream to keep it from dissolving away?

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the whole passive idea is relative to the way dreams work when you're not lucid, despite how exciting those dreams are they never just end with you waking up (in non lucid dreams), and i think it's because you think it's not a dream. When you're lucid you know it's not real, and that is the opposite of being passive. Basically calming down and not allowing thoughts to interfere with the process. It's a bit confusing but there's always that regret from the past, and anxiety for the future. I've had lucid dreams where everything was crystal clear, and i'd walk around looking up close, but the moment I see an attractive woman i'd wake up just from the hype. Other times i'd be lucid and do a bunch of stuff and then i'd forget it's a dream and it would just continue the way I set it up. I think what would be best would be to start with one single focal point and slowly expand your awareness into the peripheral (gradually), and eventually you won't even have to stabilize it.

Another interesting theory I had to why this didn't work is because of: When you are about to die in a dream you wake up right before you die, sex is referred to as minor death by some religions, so that might have something to do with it.

^^ My issue with lucid dream sex is that I experience transitions away from the sexy scene almost instantly. It used to be as I was approaching my partner to start, but now I can manage to get a few seconds in to the act before it happens. I have no warning ahead of time, I just feel the "wake up" feeling, sort of a buzzing transition and the scene vanishes in a fraction of a second. It's not a slow fade, so I have no opportunity to save it.

However, it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, since it could be that at dream end time is when I'm the most aroused and think most about sex in the dream, and I'm just not paying attention to the environment properly and not noticing the tell-tale signs of approaching dream end/transition.

I've since discovered that I don't always "wake up" fully, but rather as I mentioned, I experience a transition to another scene. This could be I suppose due to a SC expectation that I wake up at sexy times, which is hopeful since it means I'm not physically waking up, I should be able to manage it by proper concentration.

Two nights ago I had two opportunities where I (semi?) lucidly had dream encounters, and where I purposefully tried to extend my attention partially to the scene around me. In the first case I noticed peripherally that my partner's face seemed to be disintegrating/deteriorating then I experienced the end/transition, and in the second case it didn't seem to help at all, a few seconds after starting I transitioned apparently into a FA.

So yeah, lots of work to be done, but slowly it seems like I'm able to get farther along. It would probably help a lot to not start sexy time without full possession of my lucid mental faculties, but like I said, it seems that sex comes up when I'm on the border or losing my lucidity.

I did it.

I had a DILD this morning, and as is often the case when I have an unexpected LD with no particular goal in mind, I decided to go looking for some action. After finding a suitable DC I noticed the dream's stability wavering. I'm not sure if this was due to excitement or the fact that it was relatively late in the morning, but it was enough for me to stop what I was doing an try some stabilization techniques. I tried shouting "STABILIZE" but with limited success. Rubbing my hands together worked pretty well, but it felt like I was only just enough to keep the dream from degrading further...not enough to bring it back to normal. So I decided to try sivason's technique of "zooming" my field of vision in onto a small detail. In this case it was just a wall, but I put my face really close to it and just tried observing it for a few moments, the color of the paint, its texture, etc. It worked :)

Anyway, I'll limit the details of the sexual encounter itself, but basically there were very few obstacles this time around. I did have to stop at one point because the person had changed into someone else halfway through, but other than that it was surprisingly straight forward. The climax itself was rather underwhelming BUT there was a distinct something right there at the end, which was confirmed by the dream, erm, "money shot" that followed.