is absolute realism possible at the same time as control?

from personal experience i know that absolute realism is possible in a lucid. from the sounds of others a high level of control is possible in lucids as well.

my question is, are the two attainable together?

for instance, it seems i either have one or the other. in stable lucids everything is mind-blowingly realistic, but i can't fly or exert control.

whereas low-medium level lucids i can fly or push my finger through my hand or things of that nature, but rarely with anything approaching full realism.

it seems that it would be VERY difficult to have an incredibly realistic lucid, AND exert control.

any experiences or advice to relate? i think i'm mainly looking for a few people to assure me it is possible, and encourage my attempts.presently i suspect that even those who lucid dream frequently and have tons of control just leave this dynamic aspect of lucid dreaming unspoken...

please, someone tell me i'm wrong...and dont say "well, anything is possible...." without having experienced it yourself. i'm looking for firsthand accounts of realistic, stable dreams where specific control was used.

as in looking around your room right now, knocking on the wall, turning the light off and on, jumping through your window, and flying ten feet above the ground without the dream getting hazy and losing full realism. :wink:

The Problem with Absolute Realism and Good Control is, when the dream is as real as it gets, you most likely actually think its real, so your unable to truly believe you can do those things.

On the other hand, your un-able to convince your self of the Realism because your able to perform these actions that are otherwise impossible in Real Life.

Thats just what Im thinking.I know your wanting first-hand experiance, but it makes alot of sense.

Convincing yourself that you can do stuff (like flying or w/e) shouldn't be that hard, even when things are realistic. It's definitly possible.
Essentially, it's the same as the example given in EWLD, about a dream researcher believing saying his own name in his lucid dreams would inevitably cause him to wake up, which, of course, indeed happened when he tried it.
In other words, it's all about what you believe/expect to be possible. If you think complete realism at the same time as complete control is impossible, then it will be. As long as you know that it isn't (after all, anything is possible in your dreams, as long as it's within your imagination), you'll be able to fly just like in your less vivid LDs.

I can't overstate the realism of lucid dreams. No matter what you do in the dream, it would feel real, and if the dream world were a real place, that's what would happen. But are questions like these really necessary? Just lucid dream and find out for yourself.

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dont say "well, anything is possible...." without having experienced it yourself. i'm looking for firsthand accounts of realistic, stable dreams where specific control was used. [/b]

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as i said, i'm looking for encouragement in the form of unequivocal personal experience, not tired old lucid dreaming cliches that can be used by someone who hasn't even had a single LD... :)

my reasoning is that i know there are people on this board who have taken "anything is possible in a lucid" to greater degrees of realization than myself, or anyone who has thus far replied.

it is from these people i wish to hear from....if they have had dreams with full realism and a fair amount of control, it would greatly encourage me. because presently i suspect that even natural lucid dreamers who have thousands of lucids under their belt do not have dreams with full realism AND control.

not being an ass...just looking for very specific replies :wink:

well when a certain point of vividness in the dream is reached one realizes that all he's seeing is himself,. (with amazing vividness for me often brings amazing lucidity) thus with the fact that all around you is you, you begin to see that theres no rules and no limits....
most of my best dream control dreams have come from dreams that are perfectly vivid (although its important to note that for me at least, making people and things appear in an extremely vivid dream is hardish, although flying and moving really fast/ slowing time and stuff is quite easy)

anyway thats from my experiences

EDIT: it could also be that these dreams are so vivid because i had the perfect realization of my dreaming state before i had the vividness (explaining why i dont pass them off as real)

and also i just read your post :P ill try and dig up the actual full dream from my stacks of dreams in my DJ

and another note i left out ( :shakehead2:) iv only had 2-3 dreams that were like this (out of the hundreds iv had)

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Originally posted by wombing

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dont say "well, anything is possible...." without having experienced it yourself. i'm looking for firsthand accounts of realistic, stable dreams where specific control was used.

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as i said, i'm looking for encouragement in the form of unequivocal personal experience, not tired old lucid dreaming cliches that can be used by someone who hasn't even had a single LD... :)

my reasoning is that i know there are people on this board who have taken "anything is possible in a lucid" to greater degrees of realization than myself, or anyone who has thus far replied.

it is from these people i wish to hear from....if they have had dreams with full realism and a fair amount of control, it would greatly encourage me. because presently i suspect that even natural lucid dreamers who have thousands of lucids under their belt do not have dreams with full realism AND control.

not being an ass...just looking for very specific replies :wink:[/b]

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Ewps, lol, sorry about that, I somehow missed that. So I guess I told you exactly what you didn't want to hear. :sweat1:

Anyway, if you want motivation in the form of experiences. I happen to have had a very vivid LD two days ago in which I was able to fly, call lightning down onto myself, grow wings and have sex. And after doing all these things, my dream still didn't fade, nor did its reality get reduced. For me, there doesn't seem to be a link between reality and control at all. Also, I can't say I have dreams like that all the time, but still, I definitly know it is possible.

Ok, I realise that this isnt the best dream control but its the single most mermorable dream for me:

I got up for WILDing, I had decided it hadnt worked so I turned on the TV and "the whipset" was on (?) I thought to myself (I was extremely horny for some reason) "I need something to touch sexually" so I immediately grabbed the first thing i could (something that i had mistaken as a beanbag in the dark) but apon grabbing it I felt the warmth of a human body, she was about 5'3 and looked like she weighed around 105 lbs. she was wearing a tight longsleeved black shirt and a black skirt and she was kneeling down infront of me with her back turned to me watching the TV. I immediately thought "HOLY SHIT IM GRABBING MY MOTHER!!!" (:puke:) so I twisted her around to see her face as instead of my mom it was one of the hottest girls iv ever seen, (black hair blue eyes) I immediately knew i was dreaming and grabbed her chest, she had on a really small bra so I made her breasts grow and become soft in my hands, (lol) I then remembered what i had been wanting to ask some dream character representations of my family, "what do you see me as". so I got up and walked into my living room (it was completely amazing as i was walking, it felt as though i were actually in my house, i felt my clothes rubbing against my back, saw dust on the furniture, felt the cold tiles of the ground touching my feet as I walked... totally unimaginably amazing) as I was walking out of my room I felt this amazing power within me, I glanced up at the light (it was turned off, the entire house was pitch black) the light instanly exploded with light, illuminating the hallway as I walked down it, I did this a few more times as I was walking down the hallway (that was perfect to real life in every way I could see) finally I made it into the living room and found my mom sleeping on the couch (I quickly noted that all the furniture was rearranged) so i walked up to her and asked "what do you think of me?" she replied "arrogant" (she seemed pretty pissed that i had woken her up) then she layed her head back down and tried to go to sleep, so i walked back dpwn the hallway activating lights as I walked further until I came to my brothers room and asked him the same thing, he replied "6d" I was like "wtf" and asked him what 6d was, he replied "camping" so I took a moment and walked around his room being stunned at how well my mind had arranged all his stuff, I then walked up to his window and looked out and saw a floating orb of light (obviously my mind trying to create glare on the window from his bedroom light) I then walked down the hall and willed a nature enthusiast into the hallway with me (so we could go camping) I was suddenly teleported to africa, saw the nature guy running towards me and then teleported back home. we then walked outside and (heres the real control) I gazed up into the heavens and saw a dark night sky, so I aimed my hand towards the ground and grabbed the sunfrom its orbit, I felt a massive shift in my body density as I moved my hand towards the sky and saw the sun rise up over the treetops, but unfortunately the massive shift in its position had put it out, it was a massive ball of gfas that looked like the moon, as i was looking at it I noticed the moon break out of its orbit and plunge into the sun (lol) I then walked into a wooded area beside my house with the nature enthusiast by my side and the dream ended

anyway it wasnt all in the control that i actually used but more of what I knew I could use, during the entire the dream I felt this amazing ammount of power flowing in me and I flat out knew that I coulkd do anything I wanted (knowing with all your being is all complete dream control takes

also excuse any spelling errors I had in the post I dont have a spellcheck on this computer (google one doesnt work for some reason)

thanks for the replies...