The Nature of Dream Control

Ok, Mayatara distracted me for a bit there, but now to post what I came here for.

Looks like I have to add a 5th rule.

Rule 5: You are always in control, even if you don't realize it
Nothing really new about this, I've said it before and it's always been a part of dream control and how dreams are formed. But it's a constant, and since there are so few constants in dreaming, that's gotta make it important.

Still not entirely sure what the ramifications of this new rule are, if any. Gotta let it stew for a bit, but the fact that it's a constant makes it important enough to be it's own rule. I suppose ultimately it would mean that nobody can hurt you but yourself, which is again nothing new.


The Dark Side of dream control

This is a thread I saw on AboveTopSecret.com which is a conspiracy website.
Somebody posted a thread explaining how they pulled off the miracle of the dancing sun at Fatima. What he described was the the most well polished piece of dream control engineering I've ever seen.

MAJOR SPOILER WARNING, Major System Used for Making Miracles (i.e. Levitation and move) in Religious, page 1

It it's most basic level, the scheme takes advantage of specific visual quirks to make it appear that something is moving when it's not. He outlines the mechanisms for how these work explicitly.

What comes next is classic dream control. They train the eyes to do specific visual quirks in response to a tone, basically creating an archetype and trigger combo through repetition. They use a religious context where miracles happen, essentially fine tuning the possible outcomes. The whole thing is dream control on a scale I've never dreamed of. Not to mention the emotional impact of seeing a major miracle in a large crowd like at Fatima.

I totally buy it. The whole thing is just too elegant to be made up. Every element fits in perfectly.
That thread also made me realize I've totally been under utilizing triggers in my dream control. Of course you wouldn't want to become too reliant on triggers, as you'd be limited to those already prepared, but a few well trained trigger activated dream powers could come in very handy when lucid.



Rewrite?

I've been saying I'm going to rewrite this for a long time now, and I'm saying it again! I think the reason I haven't yet is because the thread format is insufficient to contain what I'm trying to convey. So I'm creating a discussion board dedicated to dream control. The different sections a forum allows will allow me to break the topic up and hopefully keep things more coherent.

I also won't hold back on the shared dreaming and real world control applications there. In fact I'm hoping to invite people who practice dream control under other names, so it won't be strictly about dreaming. I mean it's strictly about dream control, but if that means taking tips from magical schools who are basically using dream control, then so be it.

I've cobbled together a basic site so far, but if anyone knows about setting up and running a free forum, and also wants to volunteer, PM me!

Amazing thread, I'm loving your thoughts and observations, especially with how much depth you go into them.

WAY back to Synchronicity, a rather short and simple example.

We just moved to Albuquerque. My mother packed a TON of food supplies (she buys in bulk and can never use em, so ships them with us.)

We bought some cod and were looking everywhere in the store for seafood seasoning. After an hour we found it.

As soon as we come home, we find a MASSIVE container of it.


It's been there the whole time, we just weren't paying attention.

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Originally Posted by apprentice

hi, I just wanted to say that I like your ideas!
all very interesting.

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Off topic..

Congratulations on your ONLY post and you joined in 2008! It's like playing Where's Waldo! :banana:;

:P

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Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Lol don't worry - I've never even met this person in real life so we won't argue about anything. By the way, she's not really human anyway - and whoever or whatever tries to harm her will regret doing so.

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So I heard Tim has a thing for animals. ;)

Just messin'. Haha.

My last two posts were OT. I've been reading this whole thread for several hours now trying to take it all in.

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

...people subconsciously look to the top left when remembering something, but look to the top right when required to create a mental image. This seems to be universal for everyone, and could aid with summoning in dreams.

If you wanted to summon something from memory, logically, you should try to make it appear on your left side. You want to create something in a lucid, try to make it appear on your right side.

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I just found the secret to life.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Oh uh.. Moonshine and Arutard made it in this beautiful thread. Please don't argue with them as they will spam it and ruin it completely.

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You couldn't have been more right.

I think about emotion like excitement how to control that if for example I'm having sex with her everything grate but in sec i get so horny that its hard to stay Lucid before u will come excitement is so strong that even if I finish, just once had nice erection that I see it in LD but mostly sex shortest your LD u end and wake wet

Interesting post, amazing detail and very usefull practical info.
once point, about emotion, i agree totally and completely, but i also, from experience know that DC's are not all puppets at all, infcat, many are very logical, and autonomous, almost separate from you, you simply cannot influence certain DC's as far as im concerned.
some may even challenge you in your authority and assert there own reality!
maybe im wrong and i just dont have enough control but that's how i feel at the minute.

you have hit the nail on the head though with emotions because without learning to regulate adn suppress certain emotions at certain times with a passive authority you will very quickly awaken!!

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Originally Posted by Zenithar66

, but i also, from experience know that DC's are not all puppets at all, infcat, many are very logical, and autonomous, almost separate from you, you simply cannot influence certain DC's as far as im concerned.
some may even challenge you in your authority and assert there own reality!

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You are always in complete control of your DCs even if you don't know it. YOu just have to learn to recognize how it happens. Most times it's just the context of the dream that determines their behavior, which can be altered. But micromanaging every aspect of the dream and every nuance of a DCs behavior is probably not the best use of lucid time. I'm satisfied to generalized alterations to their behavior.

[QUOTE=The Cusp;1821503]You are always in complete control of your DCs even if you don't know it. i wont say the same as in my dream as for example i get to bus i was alone i experiment with summons i want one person appear so I close my eyes imagine they are stare at me didn't work after I check what behind me but none when I lost my faith turn back again and there was full bus of people.... weird cause there was old and fat persons what is really rare in my LD I said Ok here it goes I hook in one girl standing next to me my age I say she turn back to my and get back to her position I stabilize my dream and did it again when I see she is going away then she ask do I know maybe where is Lucas(in my live didn't know a person with this name) screw that different situation I'm with DC looking like my old friend I was Lucid but I want my friend to by next to me by all the dream dream was long but I get a problem a Police one Female police orange hair little bit overweight she what to stop as so OK in sec between us and her table appear so we block the road she could't get over it and i try to change her appearance be more beautiful and have blond hair close me eyes imagine she is changing use visualisation open me eyes she still was the same look at me with no mimic in her face OK one more try turn back trying to stabilize looking around get calm know there is no one then me here look back BAM she was there holding me friend DC strangle him I thought no problem I'm in control I know that, so I come closer to her and without warning she try punch me but I grab her hand...I sad on anger FU then I just turn away and go to score anything... all those DC react weird I have more trying in manipulating DC but its always not like I WON'T IT.. they don't disappear, change, morph, give four different names... so correct me in your eyes I'm noob or maybe just a person ho don't have social live(don't know how to talk with people so DC too) but still I change little bit subject of my question

Anyone here experiment with supplements for lucid dreaming?

Haven't really looked int supplements much myself, although I did try to turn some M'M's into lucidity placebos once. Didn't really work.

@WuChi: I have no idea what you're talking about. Punctuation and paragraphs might help get your point across.


I just can't motivate myself to rewrite this thread. Maybe some videos would be better, more concise. Any one know anything about making youtube videos?

Edit:Just wrote a thread titled "Blindspots for fun and profit" and wanted to link to it in this thread.
http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/using-...9/#post1929272

i am new to the site ...i found your manuscripts extremely informative...thank you

Just wanted to link a thread I wrote on Novelty in dream control.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/harnes...ovelty-137514/

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.


While this may seem obvious, it's still one of the most basic principles of dreaming. The only things that exist in a dream are things that you are aware of. It's not complete world that you wander around in and explore. As soon as you stop paying attention to something and forget about it, it ceases to exist. If you are in a closed room and can't see the outside, then the outside doesn't exist. When you open to door to go outside, it could lead anywhere, into space or hell or the city of the mole people.

The point is, nothing exists in your dreams until you become aware of it. Much like Schrodinger's Cat. Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This can be a useful tool I've used effectively in the past to deal enemies while lucid. If you don't pay something any attention, it will cease to exist. Kind of like when your parents told you as a kid to just ignore whoever is bothering you (I hate it when they're right!).

The skill to be learned here is to learn what things you pay attention to. Ask different people who walked down the same street what they saw, and a bird watcher would tell you about the rare wood pecker he saw, a child would tell you about the playground they passed, your wife would tell you about those shoes on sale, and I would tell you about that girl in the short skirt. ;) What are the things that captivate your attention, and how do these things make you feel? How do they affect your life?

Some things you pay attention to are beneficial, and some are detrimental. If you are prone to only noticing the bad in people, then interacting with people is going to be a pain in the ass. If you focus more on the good in people, then it can be a rewarding experience.

You have to learn to selectively ignore the things that don't do you any good, and focus on those things that accomplish your goals. During a dream, the effects of doing so are quite drastic, but practicing this while awake will have echoed results in your dreams, as well as be beneficial to you on several levels in RL.

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Yes, I agree.. if something's bad in a dream, ignore it and it'll go away. basically, you can do anything in a dream that you believe you can do. If you think you're gonna get chased by the growling dog looking at you, you will, similarly if you believe it's harmless and will just walk away, away it walks :P

It's not belief!! My DJ is full of incidents where I believed something would happen, then something completely unexpected happened. Belief is unreliable. I'd go so far as to say it doesn't exist. That's right, I don't believe in belief. There's only programming and focused attention.

I haven't been very active on DV lately. I'm still pursuing my obsession with dream control, only I've moved my shit to a different pile. I'm approaching it from the angle of magic and the occult, which is essentially the same thing in my opinion. I've been learning a great deal about Archetypal Engineering and real world application, as well as refining my ideas of what an archetype is and how to use it.

I do my thing over on Occult Corpus

Those interested in exploring my ideas of what dream control is can look up posts I've made over there. It's presented in the context of varying magical paradigms, but everything I write about there is directly applicable to dream control. You don't need to believe in magic, I don't want your belief, only your attention.

great thread even if its 8 years old :-)

No, No, No keep on I love this and it is really helping me out.

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Originally Posted by Naiya

I think this is true nearly all the time...very true.

There are some instances where the first rule doesn't fit, though. For example, once I fell asleep on the plane and the music from my headphones bled into my lucid dream. In that dream, my attention or lack thereof could not have stopped the music from playing in my ears. So there are times where external stimuli can possibly affect us.

If you needed to direct attention for something to exist in a dream, then how could dreams begin? You can't direct your attention when nothing is there. And so that means something has to be there before you direct your attention so that you can direct your attention to it.

So basically I feel that the OP is a very true statement, but it is not absolute. I think there may be a piece or two that still needs to be added here. Thanks Cusp. ;)

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Oh wow. Stumbling over this little gem is like stumbling over the krabby patty secret formula.

No spoilers for people still playing along at home, but this pulled together so many little pieces it's crazy.

And everyone just kinda ignored it.

Mmmm. Suspicious.