Would learning to control dreams help you control psychadelic trips?

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Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom

I have felt this way when trippin shrooms a few times lol. I'm sure that DMT could do this... :boogie:

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DMT makes even 'heroic' dose mushroom trips seem like a glass of milk in comparison... as does salvia

P.S. sorry for not putting these all into one post, I'm not sure how to add quotes while editing :P

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Originally Posted by LokiTheCoyote

the hallucinations are completley different from the traditional hallucinogens, the walls wont breath, and you probably wont see cool kaleidoscopic patterns everywhere... what you will see, is people walking right up to you, having a 10 minute conversation, then just vanishing right before your eyes.. they are so lifelike and vivid that you generally cannot tell them from reality... then there's the mindfuck, which is very very much like dream logic, you're freind could be sitting on the ceiling having a cup of tea, while a bear will be walking through your living room and the dirty plate on the table is teaching you how to play cards, and you would think nothing strange is happening, this is just the way things are.

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You know, when I first looked at this thread I was definitely thinking more along the lines of "traditional" hallucinogens, such as mushrooms, peyote, and LSD. (Which I believe could be helpful in learning dream control) Datura in itself is one extremely interesting bit psychological study, but relating it to lucid dreaming... Wow! I think you hit on something big here! I have never experienced that drug, but it's certainly an interest to me, and no doubt most psychedelic adventurers.

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Originally Posted by LokiTheCoyote

hence why it is so dangerous... you never 'really' know what's going on, no matter how much you may think you do, every thing seems so real when it's happening, just like a dream.

how lucid dreaming comes into play, is the fact that the trip itself is so similar to a waking dream, it's amlost familiar territory to an avid lucid dreamer.. and if you are an adept at finding and maintaning lucidity during a dream, you can carry that skill into the datura world... although the stakes are a lot higher if you can't

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The fact that the hallucinations (I've heard of a very common "cigarette" datura hallucination, where someone think they are holding a cigarette and it suddenly disappears, so they think they dropped it.) are so lifelike makes datura very much like a dream... you believe what's happening is real, even if it's quite odd. I like it

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Originally Posted by LokiTheCoyote

you can also turn the trip from a basicaly meaningless disordered trip around the imagination to something little more useful (sound familiar?)

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This could be the best lucid state invoking drugs that has been discussed yet. I'm going to do a little more research on it. Thank you very much for bringing it up!

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Originally Posted by LokiTheCoyote

Salvia will completely destroy your ego in seconds... much faster and harder than DMT, assuming it's potent and not just plain leaf

1 good rip of 20-30X held for as long as you can will have your entire being tossed into the cosmic sausage grinder before you even blow it out usually

DMT is a lot smoother... most people I come across actually enjoy the experience, and wish to repeat it... with salvia, it's more like "I WILL NEVER TOUCH THAT SHIT AGAIN... EVER"

Even after doing salvia well over a hundred times, I still feel like I'm about to jump out of a plane or something while I'm lighting my bowl :shock:

anyone ever try 5-meo-DMT?.. now THERE'S a force to be reckoned with.

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You've obviously done DMT and 5meo dmt...

what's the difference. From what I heard the 5meo doesn't have visual hallucinations but everything else is the same as a normal DMT experience. I would definitely like to hear some first hand experience. :bliss:

Hey LokiCoyote! Another Datura person here!
I did datura in the desert of Sedona Arizona. it is exactly like you described. Luckily I wasn't in town, I don't even want to think what would've happened to me.
I was all by myself in the desert but I thought I was at a festival! I was gone for three days and four nights. I met all kinds of spirits. In the beginning Native Americans were going to teach me to disappear if I promised to live in that realm forever. No thanks. Boulder spirits were bribing me with cigarettes to walk backwards 20 steps with my eyes shut bu luckily I looked and I was about to walk off a cliff. Then they all started laughing. Bastards. My guide was a little naked bald transparent dude who communicated with gestures and telepathically. He kept me out of too much trouble. I saw giant witches dancing with puppet dinosaurs that turned into pine trees. A giant Raven on the Mesa was eyeing me each night. I did run into real-life people and it always left me confused and it scared the shit out of this one girl who was camping by herself and I was "at a campfire talking to a bunch of people" outside her tent.
I read up on it afterwards and learned that it works by inhibiting what blocks your dreams while you are awake so that you are basically dreaming while you are walking around.
I did this before I was experienced in lucid dreaming. I always wondered what would happen if you combined could be lucid. I had the problem too of not remembering that I took any datura or that anything wasn't real. I've read that some wizards would use datura to conjure spirits to lead them to treasure.
Words for others: "Don't do it!"

Datura, very interesting actually. I've heard people discuss it just for taking before bed, but to use it to sort of train is a good idea!

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Originally Posted by LokiTheCoyote

Salvia will completely destroy your ego in seconds... much faster and harder than DMT, assuming it's potent and not just plain leaf

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Yeah but I heard DMT destroys your ego like, forever. Salvia only during the trip. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've just heard everyone say "you'll never look at anything the same again after taking DMT". Never heard that about Salvia.

I also like the
*insert fucking crazy awesome story here*

Don't do it.

LOL :lol: Every person who's taken Datura that I've talked to has said that.

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Originally Posted by Reverie Phantom

You know, when I first looked at this thread I was definitely thinking more along the lines of "traditional" hallucinogens, such as mushrooms, peyote, and LSD. It's certainly an interest to me, and no doubt most psychedelic adventurers.

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I think the thing here is that calling mushrooms, peyote, and LSD hallucinogens is a misnomer. They actually just distort stuff and you see geometric shapes. I think that these are better to be called psychadelics.

Datura, on the other hand, is not psychadelic at all. But you hallucinate your ass off. There is no expanded consciousness, no amazing insights into the nature of reality. rather, on the contrary, it is basically like a non-lucid dream. But, if you DID acchieve lucidity.

Some thoughts on this:

I never was brave enough to try but I wondered if mixing mushrooms with Datura would be good... or REALLY BAD. I never tried it. Mushrooms could provide the lucidity or on the other hand it isn't a good idea to mix things if you aren't familiar with it and you can end up in hell with this mixture, or dead.

I thought about doing Datura in a tepee in a ritual setting and somehow staying focused enough not to wander out.

The most disturbing thing about Datura for me was that many of the spirits were trying to get me to do something stupid so I would die and live in that realm forever. They would try to trick me, or try to seduce me with magick powers. There was a Queen of the ghost world who wanted my soul. Has anyone seen Spirited Away? That movie is a lot like a Datura trip. Many of those characters were in my experience and my trip happened about ten years before I ever saw that movie.

Heh, so many cartoons and animations are 'drug induced'.

And yeh that's true, psychedelic would be the proper word for shrooms, LSD etc.

Datura is more a delusional hallucinogenic. And I spose shrooms and LSD would be classed as that too at really high doses.

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Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

I think the thing here is that calling mushrooms, peyote, and LSD hallucinogens is a misnomer. They actually just distort stuff and you see geometric shapes. I think that these are better to be called psychadelics.

Datura, on the other hand, is not psychadelic at all. But you hallucinate your ass off. There is no expanded consciousness, no amazing insights into the nature of reality. rather, on the contrary, it is basically like a non-lucid dream. But, if you DID acchieve lucidity.

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It's true, Datura does fit the ideal definition of "hallucinogen". However, LSD, mushrooms, and peyote are still classified under hallucinogen, and if taken in high enough doses they can certainly be hallucinogenic. Low doses result in psychedelic patterns. I remember one high dose of shrooms I took one time when I tripped in a ravine with my friend and I started seeing animals all around and I thought I was an animal going to the animal store. It was as if I had this really clear memory of being an animal. I wasn't moving or anything, I was seeing it in my head. And when my friend called my name I kinda came out of the "trance" and I realized I had been watching a bunch of gnats flying around a sewer pipe that drained into the ravine ha ha. It's like the gnats became the animals I was seeing or something. Very magical.

So I guess all I'm saying is I don't believe more common psychedelics should be immediately written off as being "non-hallucinogenic". That's all.

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Originally Posted by tommo

Datura, very interesting actually. I've heard people discuss it just for taking before bed, but to use it to sort of train is a good idea!


Yeah but I heard DMT destroys your ego like, forever. Salvia only during the trip. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've just heard everyone say "you'll never look at anything the same again after taking DMT". Never heard that about Salvia.

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Correct. It only humbled me during the trip and like an hour after. But, I do see reality different after my trip with Salvia.

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Originally Posted by Catbus

I dunno, shrooms and other hallucinogens deal with chemicals in your brain altering your consciousnesses. Then again, I'm not sure whether dreams are caused by chemicals, and if so then I'd imagine it would be possible to achieve some sort of lucidity. However, me and my friend Phillip have had similar conversations, only dealing with acid instead. He said that as much as he's tried to become lucid, the acid overwhelms him. He's still only tripped a few times, and he said that he's going to continue attempting to gain lucidity. Who knows, it very well may be possible.

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If I remember correctly, the dream chemical is DMT.

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