Thread: Would learning to control dreams help you control psychadelic trips?

This is actually the sole reason I decided to get into lucid dreaming. A brief history: I heard about it in '06, never really tried it seriously ("oh I'll do it later"). Then in May this year I started watching a ton of Terence Mckenna videos. I decided I wanted to take shrooms again, started reading shrooms literature again... and then arrived at, literally, story after story of bad trips. This only made me remember my last trip - I blacked out, essentially not existing for 5 hours while occasionally 'phasing' into an incredibly hazy (and terrified) dream-like consciousness. I read these stories and the horror of that night began creeping under my skin.

So I decided I would get into lucid dreaming to aclimate myself to 'weird shit' so that the next time I took shrooms I wouldn't freak out when reality melted away and my consciousenss was absorbed into the pulsating frequencies of the universe leaving my body an empty and delirious husk for 5-6 hours

I'm not sure, but the converse hasn't been true for me. Good control on hallucinogens hasn't particularly improved my dream control.

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

This is actually the sole reason I decided to get into lucid dreaming. A brief history: I heard about it in '06, never really tried it seriously ("oh I'll do it later"). Then in May this year I started watching a ton of Terence Mckenna videos. I decided I wanted to take shrooms again, started reading shrooms literature again... and then arrived at, literally, story after story of bad trips. This only made me remember my last trip - I blacked out, essentially not existing for 5 hours while occasionally 'phasing' into an incredibly hazy (and terrified) dream-like consciousness. I read these stories and the horror of that night began creeping under my skin.

So I decided I would get into lucid dreaming to aclimate myself to 'weird shit' so that the next time I took shrooms I wouldn't freak out when reality melted away and my consciousenss was absorbed into the pulsating frequencies of the universe leaving my body an empty and delirious husk for 5-6 hours

Huh...

Did it work?

Originally Posted by CanceledCzech

This is actually the sole reason I decided to get into lucid dreaming. A brief history: I heard about it in '06, never really tried it seriously ("oh I'll do it later"). Then in May this year I started watching a ton of Terence Mckenna videos. I decided I wanted to take shrooms again, started reading shrooms literature again... and then arrived at, literally, story after story of bad trips. This only made me remember my last trip - I blacked out, essentially not existing for 5 hours while occasionally 'phasing' into an incredibly hazy (and terrified) dream-like consciousness. I read these stories and the horror of that night began creeping under my skin.

So I decided I would get into lucid dreaming to aclimate myself to 'weird shit' so that the next time I took shrooms I wouldn't freak out when reality melted away and my consciousenss was absorbed into the pulsating frequencies of the universe leaving my body an empty and delirious husk for 5-6 hours

Doing too much is absolutely terrible. My friends band played a gig and three of us got a hotel room cause it was out of town. Bought a giant bag and ate them all. Worst time of my life.

I'm sure if you're able to master or even partially control your lucid dream, it HAS to have some type of positive effect while tripping. I'm actually going to keep this in mind. I'm sure if I / anyone else becomes better at lucid dreaming, there will be increased memory and understanding of the actual trip (depending on what you took. I usually trip on salvia)

We should start documenting this. I wish there was more research on this particular subject.

I'll be conducting some research tomorrow night

Alright awesome It would be amazing if we could like master/control our trips. It would be like a literal REAL lucid 'dream'.. But I doubt that's possible. But I would think you could control the trip to some extent if you are good/familiar with the state of lucidity.

I think it is possible, but the variable of psychedelics is such that the drug might overpower whatever control you may have developed depending on the grade and dosage.

The last time I took shrooms, for instance, beforehand I reminded myself to guide my thoughts verbally when things got too crazy (just repeating internally "You're on drugs, and it will eventually wear off so don't worry"). There were several times when just repeating that calmed me down and I was able to enjoy what might otherwise have been a scary trip. I was able to "choose" to engage the visuals that appeared or sort of turn them off and focus on something else.

This is similar to my own sense of lucid dream control in that my inner dialogue is always present, guiding my awareness and frame of mind ("This is just a dream"). The problem with psychedelics is that they can temporarily erase your normal internal dialogue, so you don't have a base from which to cast control over your trip.

So for me, when the internal dialogue is absent then the "I" is missing and control is not possible. And as I mentioned, psychedelics are really good about erasing that "I" for a while which is when things can get a bit scary and uncontrollable.

I dunno, shrooms and other hallucinogens deal with chemicals in your brain altering your consciousnesses. Then again, I'm not sure whether dreams are caused by chemicals, and if so then I'd imagine it would be possible to achieve some sort of lucidity. However, me and my friend Phillip have had similar conversations, only dealing with acid instead. He said that as much as he's tried to become lucid, the acid overwhelms him. He's still only tripped a few times, and he said that he's going to continue attempting to gain lucidity. Who knows, it very well may be possible.

Why would you want to control your trips?

Oh I definitely get you. I feel like letting complete control go is what makes a good trip. The conscious mind is what gets in the way and makes bad trips, but I haven't ever had a problem with it when doing psychs. I'm going to experiment tonight and see if I can guide it at all though. Maybe make patterns start appearing with my conscious mind instead of my unconscious. Or make them work together to make new visuals or something. We'll see

Originally Posted by Blackichan

Doing too much is absolutely terrible. My friends band played a gig and three of us got a hotel room cause it was out of town. Bought a giant bag and ate them all. Worst time of my life.

Set and Setting is important. If you were in a safe space to go within your mind it would've been better, I bet.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Set and Setting is important. If you were in a safe space to go within your mind it would've been better, I bet.

Oh for sure that makes a big difference. I've talked to people who have done some before going out to a bar. No chance in hell I'd ever do that. I find tripping on shrooms is better when your out in nature. Doing them at my friends cabin always ends in a good time.

I failed to be able to control my psychedelic trip, but I believed that I was controlling everything around me and that everything I was perceiving was a figment of my imagination. Everything in the world collides and meets at NOW

my guess is that lucidity is not something that is constrained to dreams. good example of this is trying to be lucid in the waking state - and there is a difference in trying to be conscious while conscious, if that makes any sense.
so I believe this would definitely carry over into psychedelics. this, of course, is predicated on dreams, shrooms/acid/whatever, and waking life all being chemical. is there a guarantee of this ability carrying over? hardly. lucidity is a skill as much as it is a 'state.' I am sure, however, that if you are really good at it, you can navigate the psychedelic state with some proficiency.
but, as always, things are never exact.
The thing you have to do with psychedelics is learn when to let go and feel no fear. I would equate them to floating as the river rather then swimming inside it.
unless, of course, you mean control in a very literal sense? that's another thing entirely.
see, control is hard to really do. I think the only thing you have fair control of is the sense of being aware in a trip, rather then picking apart aspects of it and creating things. it's not like a dream... but it still has dream characteristics. in that respect, there should be room to maneuver at the very least.

Actually, I think the point of psychedelics is to give up control and go with the flow. Control is the ego controlling. Go beyond the ego and the control.
Like John Lennon said: "Close your eyes, relax and float downstream, it is not dying, it is not dying. Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void, it is shining, it is shining."

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Actually, I think the point of psychedelics is to give up control and go with the flow. Control is the ego controlling. Go beyond the ego and the control.
Like John Lennon said: "Close your eyes, relax and float downstream, it is not dying, it is not dying. Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void, it is shining, it is shining."

Ive eaten shrooms a couple times and every time I tried to understand what was going on, or control the trip, It would just create anxiety which would then start to ruin the trip. (my first one was horrible)

I dont think you would be able to use dream control technique on a trip because the state of mind in both is different. I feel like im more conscious in a lucid dream, and a trip is more like a regular dream.

I also think that trying to control the trip defeats the purpose.

However, reality testing and dream control techniques might be useful during a datura trip, but I won't do it again to find out.

First post woohoo!

I had a curious thing happen to me regarding tripping and lucids.

The first time I ever tripped shrooms I did it at around noon. That night I had my first lucid dream. The amazing part is that I had been trying to have a lucid dream before for about two months. I believe there is a connection. While trippin I remember telling my friend that I felt like I was in a dream. Psychedelic mushrooms raise the amount of serotonin in your brain, giving you the trippy effect. When you sleep your serotonin chemicals change to melatonin. Melatonin helps you dream, and makes your dreams more vivid.

I think taking the shrooms helped me have my first lucid, because when I took the shrooms they raised the serotonin levels in my brain, then that night I had extra melatonin, making my dreams vivid and easier to recognize as being dreams. And I believe the feeling is very similar. Practicing control in either area could possibly help control in the other.

I would imagine you wouldn't wanna control your trip at high dosages. Rather take a JUST hallucinogenic dose, a threshold dose, and see if you can push it a bit further. Get deeper than you should on that dose, probably through meditation. Focusing on it intently.

I've thought about this before too and I asked a guy once whether you can and he said he could control trips. But he was very experienced apparently. The control I was more thinking was like lucid dream control. For instance shooting lightning out of your hands or throwing energy balls or morphing a tree in to your subconscious and talking directly to it etc. He reckons he could do it. However he could have just been bullshitting. But I think if it is possible, which it probably is coz it's all generated by the mind anyway, as far as we know, you would have to start with threshold doses and work your way up to higher doses. Heroic dose would probably just be too much for anybody to stay lucid period.

Originally Posted by Catbus

I dunno, shrooms and other hallucinogens deal with chemicals in your brain altering your consciousnesses. Then again, I'm not sure whether dreams are caused by chemicals, and if so then I'd imagine it would be possible to achieve some sort of lucidity. However, me and my friend Phillip have had similar conversations, only dealing with acid instead. He said that as much as he's tried to become lucid, the acid overwhelms him. He's still only tripped a few times, and he said that he's going to continue attempting to gain lucidity. Who knows, it very well may be possible.

Dreams are related to chemicals in your brain, particularly DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen known to man. you can actually purchase it (however not legally, if im correct.) in places such as austin. if my memory serves, $500 a g

wow, this is verry interesting. ive never done shrooms but i have friends that always whine about bad trips, maybe this could help.

Originally Posted by xerod1

Dreams are related to chemicals in your brain, particularly DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen known to man. you can actually purchase it (however not legally, if im correct.) in places such as austin. if my memory serves, $500 a g

500 dollars!? Jesus. Just order some Phalaris Grass seeds, plant em, wait two weeks and harvest the juice.

Originally Posted by xerod1

Dreams are related to chemicals in your brain, particularly DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen known to man. you can actually purchase it (however not legally, if im correct.) in places such as austin. if my memory serves, $500 a g

DMT is extremely powerful, but not the most.

The most powerful hallucinogen known to man is Salvia Divinorum.