[18:59] <@Serenity> Alright, so just to get some preliminary out of the way...
[18:59] <@Serenity> If you have a question, feel free to post it any time
[19:00] == quorthonafull [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[19:00] <@Serenity> just type QUESTION! before you type it so i don't miss it :)
[19:00] <@Serenity> so like...
[19:00] <quorthonafull> Hi
[19:00] <smushy> QUESTION! Am I doing it right?
[19:00] <@Serenity> QUESTION! What is this ungodly hour of the morning?
[19:00] <@Serenity> smushy, you got it :0
[19:00] <smushy> Yay.
[19:00] <@Serenity> :D
[19:00] <smushy> :)
[19:01] <@Serenity> thanks for making it here tonight, everyone :)
[19:01] <smushy> I'm so excited to be here.
[19:01] <smushy> Thanks for letting me in!
[19:01] <cardeal> Im never good at questions...
[19:01] <@Serenity> you should all have your forum access to the course and workbooks now :D
[19:01] <cardeal> same!
[19:01] <@Serenity> make sure to drop by the chat thread to say hello to each other :D
[19:01] <Marlowe> EXCLAMATION! This is cool! :)
[19:01] <@Serenity> let's-ah begin :)
[19:01] <smushy> I just saw that I have access to it. I'll write my threads later, so I'm not distracted from the
chat.
[19:02] <@Serenity> so everyone here is coming in with various levels of understanding lucid dreaming and what it
is
[19:02] <cardeal> I will write it when wake up! lol
[19:02] <@Serenity> can anyone tell me, what is a lucid dream? :D
[19:02] <@Serenity> (bueller, bueller?)
[19:02] <smushy> A dream where you know its a dream!
[19:02] <Marlowe> ooh ooh I got the answer (Raises hand like crazy)
[19:02] <@Serenity> just spot them out :)
[19:02] <@Serenity> spout*
[19:02] <smushy> Im such a teachers pet.
[19:03] * Serenity tosses smushy an orange
[19:03] <@Serenity> that's it? everyone agree with that answer?
[19:03] <Vesterguard> ^^
[19:03] <smushy> Yum. Pulpy!
[19:03] <theking> Sounds good
[19:03] <Marlowe> Yes, its a dream where you are consciously aware
[19:03] <@Serenity> well, it's right :) a lucid dream is lucid because you are aware it's a dream
[19:03] == stjimmy [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[19:03] <smushy> Hi, stjimmy.
[19:03] <stjimmy> hi =)
[19:04] <quorthonafull> Hi, stjimmy
[19:04] <@Serenity> some people get really confused, because they wonder "i couldn't control it?"
[19:04] <@Serenity> or, they were only *just aware*
[19:04] <smushy> A lucid dream is a dream where you are conciously aware, stjimmy. Great, now you are caught up.
[19:04] <stjimmy> ok thanks
[19:04] <@Serenity> control, in fact, has nothing to do with lucidity at all... it's just a bonus :)
[19:05] <@Serenity> awareness... or levels of awareness, rather... that's a very personal thing
[19:05] <@Serenity> each person perceives lucidity differently
[19:05] <Marlowe> QUESTION! What Factors influence lucidity levels?
[19:05] <@Serenity> some people refuse to accept the dream as lucid unless they were as clear of a state of mind as
if they were awake >.>
[19:05] <Solomon> Mhm
[19:06] <DawgBone> Question! Are lucid dreams generally more vivid than ordinary dreams?
[19:06] <@Serenity> Marlowe mostly just how aware you were
[19:06] <Marlowe> oh ok
[19:06] <@Serenity> DawgBone they can be, and generally are... but not always ;)
[19:06] <@Serenity> so, i'd like to introduce a *generally accepted* scale of lucidity, if i may :)
[19:07] * plasticman slaps Vesterguard around a bit with a large fishbot
[19:07] <plasticman> oops sry
[19:07] <@Serenity> this is based on a researcher named Ed Kelog
[19:07] <Vesterguard> OI! ^^
[19:07] <quorthonafull> lol
[19:07] <@Serenity> plasticman, stand in the corner :P
[19:07] <smushy> Yum, Keloggs.
[19:07] <@Serenity> there's no fish-slapping here :)
[19:07] <Marlowe> lmao time out time :P
[19:07] <@Serenity> so, Ed Kelog's scale uses a base of 1-5.
[19:08] <@Serenity> 1/5 I realize that I dream, but continue to follow the dream "script"; no conscious choice.
[19:08] <@Serenity> In my experience, this is when i'm only "just aware" of this being a dream that i'm watching
[19:08] <@Serenity> like knowing it's a dream in the back of my head
[19:08] == Solomon [
[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[19:09] <@Serenity> I'll even provide myself with some running commentary, like "Wow, that pink elephant looks so
unusual, this is a cool dream."
[19:09] <@Serenity> 2/5 I still follow the dream script (knowing that I dream), but I can make minor choices in
keeping with dream reality. (This is where I know I'm dreaming, but I still have a plot to follow, and that's
keeping me from really thinking things through and making my own conscious decisions as to what I want to do. I
may transform into a dragon in order to kill puny fools blocking my path though, for example.)
[19:09] <@Serenity> pretty self-explanatory :)
[19:10] <@Serenity> 3/5 I have the choice of following the dream script or not, can make major choices based on
awareness of my potentialities in the dream state.
[19:10] <Vesterguard> Puny dragons, basics, check ^^
[19:10] <@Serenity> In 3/5 i might choose to do something epic, like walk through glass, play with telekinesis, etc
[19:10] <smushy> QUESTION! I know that the numbers on the scale will be different according to how you personally
see it as, but is number one generally where you CANNOT do any concious physical movement?
[19:11] <@Serenity> but i find remembering goals to be difficult in this stage.... like I don't even think about my
goals still... i just play around with the dream
[19:11] <quorthonafull> Like watching a movie
[19:11] <@Serenity> smushy... hmmm... i can still move i guess... with my dream body
[19:11] <@Serenity> but i can't deviate from it's path
[19:11] <@Serenity> or do you mean you feel rooted in place?
[19:11] <smushy> Okay. Thank you.
[19:12] == Solomon [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[19:12] <Solomon> What'd I miss?
[19:12] <Solomon> Phone was acting funny
[19:12] <@Serenity> (will continue if you're still typing)
[19:12] <smushy> No, but more like, I can have commentary on the dreams (mentally), but won't be able to actually
control my dream body. I'm just WATCHING the dream. Playing no real part, but able to have opinions about the
things I see in the dream.
[19:12] <smushy> Does that make sense?
[19:13] <stjimmy> I think that adjusts to her description quite well
[19:13] <@Serenity> smushy... yeah, that's what i call a level one
[19:13] <@Serenity> 4/5 I'm fully aware that I dream and of the location and state of my physical body; also
remember most knowledge from waking life, at least as it relates to goals that I had set for my lucid dreams.
[19:13] <smushy> Sorry, I had to take a few pills for a surgery, so I might be sounding a little loopy. :(
[19:13] <@Serenity> 4 - the goals start coming in... logic feels a lot clearer
[19:14] <Marlowe> Lucidity levels of being aware. 1/5 if liek watching a movie. You know you're in a dream but you
can't do anything about it. 2/3 is you can choose do a task (tekekinesis, etc) but you still follow the dream plot.
3/5 isyou can choose to follow the dream script or not. Does that help Solomon?
[19:14] <@Serenity> and finally, 5/5 I'm aware of myself as an integrated whole, at least on level with how I would
be during a waking focus. Thinking, feeling, creating aspects of self are working as a unified whole.
Extraordinary (even for dream reality) abilities and experiences often manifest.
[19:14] <AstralFae18> wow o_o
[19:14] <@Serenity> Again... the scale is a bit subjective and personal
[19:14] <Marlowe> Interesting...I'm usually a 3/5
[19:15] <AstralFae18> same here
[19:15] <smushy> Lucky people.
[19:15] <@Serenity> for me, i tend to feel the need to quantify my experience :)
[19:15] <Vesterguard> ^^
[19:15] <@Serenity> I vary between 2's and 4's usually :)
[19:15] <smushy> So, I'm guessing that the higher the number is on the scale, the more vivid and easily remembered
the dreams are?
[19:15] <Marlowe> Quantitative > Qualitative all day haha
[19:15] <@Serenity> smushy - yes
[19:15] <stjimmy> Im alwyas on 1 when i do induced lds
[19:16] <stjimmy> but ive been to 4 in spontaneous lds
[19:16] <@Serenity> stjim, i hope i can help with that, then :)
[19:16] <stjimmy> k -)
[19:16] <@Serenity> so... i feel the scale is a bit important too, cos before i discovered it, i was writing off a
lot of 1's as normal dreams
[19:16] <smushy> I have only had two LD's. They would rate a .5 on the Ed Kelog scale...
[19:17] <@Serenity> but i feel like by accepting my 1's as lucid, and by analysing the levels, and by understanding
"okay, why was that a one?" it helped me understand HOW i recognised the dreamstate, which led to recognising it
more and more :)
[19:17] <@Serenity> or, increasing my rate of lucidity :D
[19:17] <Vesterguard> Interesting
[19:18] <Marlowe> QUESTION! So analyzing WHY your previous dreams were lower on the scale helps to increase
vividness in the future?
[19:18] <@Serenity> it doesn't necessarily increase vividness, but it helps me recognize subtle dream qualities
[19:18] <smushy> I think she meant just analyzing which number on the scale helped increase the chances of the
numbers increasing.
[19:19] <Marlowe> oh ok
[19:19] <smushy> Or that.'
[19:19] <@Serenity> like for instance, a dream sign for me is that i don't feel my body
[19:19] <@Serenity> so when i finally learned that feeling, i started recognizing it more
[19:19] <quorthonafull> cool
[19:19] <jessie1203> hmm
[19:19] <@Serenity> and sometimes, in a level one, that's my only indicator
[19:20] <@Serenity> but sometimes, it can trigger something in my head... no body feeling -> this is a dream
(knowledge) -> this is a dream! (realization)
[19:20] <smushy> QUESTION! Is it possible to realize you are a level one during a level one dream? Or is it not
possible, since your logic isn't all there?
[19:20] <stjimmy> sorry got to run
[19:20] <@Serenity> it's okay jimmy :)
[19:20] <smushy> Sorry for all the questions. I'm a fresh newb.
[19:20] <stjimmy> can u send me log later?
[19:21] == stjimmy [
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[19:21] <@Serenity> it's okay smushy :) ummm it's a hard question... i don't think i've ever thought to myself "oh
yay, i'm watching a dream, but i can't do anything!" that's not really what goes on in my head
[19:22] <@Serenity> it's more like just knowing that what i'm seeing is a dream... like watching a TV show or a
movie
[19:22] <smushy> So you can't really transition from one level to another by recognizing what type of dream it is?
[19:22] <@Serenity> sometimes yes, sometimes no
[19:22] <Marlowe> Indeed. In conjuction to smushy's comment, often I was in a level 1 dream, and when I woke up, I
couldn't believe I didn't I didn't recognize I was in a dream because there were so many obvious Dreamsigns...it
made me made D:
[19:22] <smushy> Generally, it's easier to analyze after the dream. That makes sense.
[19:22] <@Serenity> that's one of the fantastic things about lucid dreams... they're so different and unusual
[19:22] <quorthonafull> Yes
[19:23] <@Serenity> each time :)
[19:23] <smushy> My dreams have toned down A LOT since I have been trying (and failing) to lucid dream. It's kind
of sad, but at least it is having SOME effect on me.
[19:23] <@Serenity> hmm... let me try to think of some recent examples
[19:24] <theking> For me
[19:24] <theking> it was the opposite
[19:24] <@Serenity> Okay... a good level one I had... I was in a community hall, i recognized my ex and thought to
myself, "wow, i'm so impressed by the quality of his features the dream has created!"
[19:24] <@Serenity> i went about the dream helping set up for this dinner, visited some events around the hall
[19:24] <theking> I tried to induce first at like 13, and the dreams started becoming more intense, but started
altering so I couldn't figure the signs different from real life
[19:25] <@Serenity> i was lucid the entire time, but i wasn't lucid enough to go off and do my own thing
[19:25] <@Serenity> just lucid enough to know i was watching a dream
[19:25] <smushy> Lucky. To both of you. I like crazy creative dreams.
[19:25] <@Serenity> so a level 2 i had...
[19:25] <theking> for me, it got weird, I'd have sleep paralysis more often, and just not sleep, no idea if it was
related
[19:25] <@Serenity> one of my sailor moon dreams, lol
[19:26] <theking> haha
[19:26] <@Serenity> i usually control the spells i decide to use :)
[19:26] <AstralFae18> aww nice!
[19:26] <@Serenity> but i don't stop and think "i should try to dream share"
[19:26] <@Serenity> but i make my decisions and control the dream based on the plot
[19:26] <smushy> QUESTION! This might be getting ahead of myself, but what about dreams where you aren't a
character? It's more like a third person perspective to a story of other characters?
[19:27] <smushy> You can answer after you go through the examples, sorry.
[19:27] <@Serenity> smushy - when i'm just me and i realize i'm dreaming, those tend to be a level 4 or something
(for me), cos i'm not distracted by a plot :)
[19:27] <@Serenity> and i get distracted easily!
[19:27] <Marlowe> If a may, I can answer smushy's question kind of. Oftentimes I'm third person, then I see a
dream sign, then I "transform" into a body once I realize I'm dreaming. Its hard tho
[19:28] <@Serenity> okay so level 3 - realized i was dreaming, and thought "sweet, i'm dreaming! let's go fly and
blow things up!"
[19:28] <Marlowe> Yup I was definately a level 3 two nights ago ;)
[19:28] <smushy> So is it not possible to become a character or fully lucid if you are just a third-(invisible)
person watching the dream?
[19:28] <smushy> Oh, so it is possible according to Marlowe. Thanks, Marlowe. :)
[19:29] <@Serenity> level 4 - i had a dream where i realized it was a dream, and i just walked out of the room i
was in. I remembered a task of the month and wanted to get 'er done, so i did :D
[19:29] <Marlowe> @smushy I did in my third lucid
[19:29] <Marlowe> no prob ;)
[19:29] <@Serenity> level 5 - this are strange... i think i've had maybe one of these in my life
[19:29] <@Serenity> these*
[19:29] <@Serenity> i became lucid and it was like being awake, it really was
[19:30] <@Serenity> stable environment, perfect control
[19:30] <AstralFae18> ohh
[19:30] <@Serenity> it was like i knew i was dreaming, but i forgot i was asleep in bed, if that makes any sense
[19:30] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Is there anything we can do that could help us achieve a level 5?
[19:30] <cardeal> wwant to have a vunch of those :D
[19:30] <@Akono> practice
[19:30] <@Serenity> Marlowe i actually don't know :( i've never found a way to control the level
[19:31] <@Serenity> i'm going to go with akono on this one :)
[19:31] <cardeal> *bunch
[19:31] <Marlowe> Maybe take the extra time to really stabilize the dream when your at like a level 2 or 3 stage?
[19:31] <@Serenity> i guess, WILDs tend to produce more 5's
[19:31] <@Akono> depending on what you're going for...try to immerser yourself in that goal during waking life.
[19:31] <Marlowe> dangit :(
[19:31] <smushy> QUESTION! Do level 5 dreams make it more difficult to forget you are dreaming? I read somewhere
that you must constantly remind yourself you are dreaming because its possible to lose that mindset and drift back
into a normal, non lucid, dream.
[19:31] <Marlowe> WILDs excite me too much
[19:32] <@Serenity> I haven't experienced 5 a lot... but i think the potential lies in any level (to lose your
awareness)
[19:32] <smushy> make it more difficult to remember ****
[19:32] <smushy> not, forget.
[19:33] <theking> QUESTION!
[19:33] <smushy> Oh, okay. By the way, I wasn't cussing, I use the star (*) to correct myself.
[19:33] <theking> Can you elaborate on WILD technique? I'm not familiar with terms
[19:33] <@Serenity> like when i'm lucid, i keep a running track of events in my head as i go... helps remind me
that i'm dreaming :)
[19:33] <smushy> Wake Initiated Lucid Dream.
[19:33] <@Serenity> theking a WILD is that ^^
[19:33] <@Serenity> i'm a slow typer :P
[19:33] <Marlowe> lol 1 - Smushy, 0 Serenity ;P
[19:34] <smushy> Woo!
[19:34] <theking> I know what it stands for, but the technique confuses me
[19:34] <@Serenity> we'll get to techniques another day, but what it means is a conscious shift between being awake
and dreaming
[19:34] <theking> okay
[19:34] <@Akono> going from the waking state directly into a lucid dreaming state with full awareness.
[19:34] <theking> thanks
[19:34] <quorthonafull> It's great, but hard to achieve for most people
[19:34] <@Serenity> alright, so moving on, cos i have 30 mins to cover a huge topic :)
[19:34] <Marlowe> Spped type :P
[19:35] <Marlowe> *Speed
[19:35] <@Serenity> (i will also be sticking around after class to answer questions)
[19:35] <@Serenity> this ios me speed typing, you don't want i :p
[19:35] <@Serenity> see?
[19:35] <Vesterguard> hehe
[19:35] <smushy> You are going to see a lot of me. ;-]
[19:35] <AstralFae18> XD
[19:35] <@Serenity> lol, it's alright, smushy
[19:35] <cardeal> nooooo were doomed
[19:36] <Marlowe> lol anyways, continue Serenity ;P
[19:36] <@Serenity> okay so it's very, very handy to know where your dreams come from, or how they are created, to
learn how to recognize dream signs and abnormalities and such :)
[19:36] <@Serenity> The first topic is called Day Residue... there is a VERY handy video on Day Residue in the
dream tube, by the way
[19:37] <@Serenity> I'll find the link after class
[19:37] <Vesterguard> super
[19:37] <smushy> Visual Learning FTW
[19:37] <@Serenity> Day Residue is essentially the day's events that seep into your dreams
[19:37] <@Serenity> like for me, i work too much, so i dream about work a lot :P
[19:37] <Marlowe> lol Day Residue...I dreamed I had shrimp for dinner one lucid, and I had shrimp for life in RL
[19:37] <cardeal> I seem to have them lately
[19:37] <@Serenity> or i might see a friend that day, and dream about her that night
[19:38] <@Serenity> sometimes, it doesn't have to be an event THAT DAY, but something that just might be bugging
you
[19:38] <cardeal> and what about lucid dreaming books without noticing that you were dreaming? xD
[19:38] <smushy> I sometimes have Dream Debris.
[19:38] <@Serenity> like you're going through a rough patch with a friend, so it manifests in dreams
[19:38] <@Serenity> cardeal, umm bad luck? :P
[19:39] <AstralFae18> XD hahaha
[19:39] <cardeal> indeed "frustratuion"
[19:39] <Marlowe> Tough :P
[19:39] <cardeal> *frustration
[19:39] <cardeal> its dark here..
[19:39] <@Serenity> you could try to mantra to yourself to recognize the book, perhaps :)
[19:39] <@Serenity> if it's been happening a lot lately
[19:40] <cardeal> that happened because I ordered ETWOLD beforo sleeping xD
[19:40] <@Serenity> or, as you're going back to sleep, imagine yourself recognizing the book as you're falling
asleep
[19:40] <Marlowe> lol
[19:40] <@Serenity> which is a MILD
[19:40] <@Serenity> alright, second topic, and my fave - schemas
[19:40] <@Serenity> schemas are like... laws of order
[19:41] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Would it be beneficial to go over the day you've had in your head before going to bed
so your more prone to recognize day residue in your dream and became lucid?
[19:41] <@Serenity> but are sometimes very nonsensical
[19:41] <@Serenity> Marlowe, yes, or keeping an awake journal to record the day's events!
[19:41] <Marlowe> k
[19:41] <smushy> Wouldn't that just be an oridnary journal? :-P
[19:41] <@Serenity> also, it's said that performing many reality checks throughout the day may seep into your day
residue
[19:41] <@Serenity> smushy yes :P
[19:41] <Vesterguard> Depends on what you intend it to be ;)
[19:42] <@Serenity> technicalities :P
[19:42] <Vesterguard> ^^
[19:42] <@Serenity> schemas can be seen like universe laws too
[19:42] <@Serenity> your brain creates them as a frame for plot, in a way
[19:42] <@Serenity> so, in my case... my sailor moon universe :P
[19:43] <Marlowe> lol
[19:43] <smushy> In my case, Planet Orange.
[19:43] <quorthonafull> lol
[19:43] <@Serenity> in my dream, i am sailor moon, the things that happen happen in that universe and are NORMAL to
that universe
[19:43] <@Serenity> which also makes it hard to catch whether it's a dream
[19:43] <cardeal> Hmm or in my case random reallife things... my dreams are so boring, so normal
[19:43] <@Serenity> biggest reason: at night, when we sleep, the part of our brains that controls logic, turns off
[19:44] <@Serenity> when we dream, our brains follow schema logic with blind faith
[19:44] <smushy> Good. Logic sucks.
[19:44] <quorthonafull> "my dreams are so boring, so normal" best quote ever
[19:44] <cardeal> hehe
[19:44] <cardeal> really
[19:44] <quorthonafull> I have the same problem
[19:45] <@Serenity> schemas are why it can be hard to recognize dreaming, is what i'm getting at, here... but you
can train yourself to recognize it, too :)
[19:45] <quorthonafull> But sometimes, I've managed to do some funny things
[19:45] <Marlowe> *Grabs Popcorn*
[19:45] <@Serenity> they are also amazing for dream control, which is why i like them so much
[19:45] <smushy> How can you train yourself to recongnize it?
[19:45] <@Serenity> but that's anaother class
[19:45] <cardeal> I want to knoew!
[19:45] <cardeal> awwwwwww
[19:45] <@Serenity> well, like for me, i dream about sailor moon a lot :)
[19:46] <smushy> QUESTION! How can you train yourself to recognize it?
[19:46] <@Serenity> so by reminding myself to reality check to all things sailor moon related :)
[19:46] <smushy> Oh, okay.
[19:46] <Marlowe> Ahh, so your dream sign is anything Sailor Moonish?
[19:46] <@Serenity> it's one of them :)
[19:47] <smushy> QUESTION? How do you learn what your schema is? I don't seem to have a specific theme or emotion
in my dreams...
[19:47] <@Serenity> hmmm...schemas are anything, really
[19:47] <@Serenity> schema could be dreams mirroring real life
[19:47] <Marlowe> I hate those dreams >.<
[19:47] <@Serenity> in real life, you can't fly, so you might find it difficult
[19:47] <@Serenity> but there are ways around that ;)
[19:48] <Marlowe> hmm do tell :)
[19:48] <@Serenity> and i'll tell you that... in another class :P
[19:48] <@Serenity> cos that's all dream control
[19:48] <Marlowe> Ahhh whatta tease lol
[19:48] <@Serenity> which is that last class :)
[19:48] <smushy> I have dreams of little girls getting kidnapped by delusional poets and the little girl ends up
killing him. :) I'm so screwed up...
[19:48] <@Serenity> alright next up!
[19:48] <@Serenity> faulty logic!
[19:49] <@Serenity> goes along with schemas, kind of
[19:49] <@Serenity> because your logical brain shuts off when you dream, your dreaming brain readily excepts pink
elephants and floating dreams
[19:49] <@Serenity> it'll come up with reasons for them
[19:50] <@Serenity> like one time, i realized i was naked... i thought to myself, "oh, i'm strutting around naked,
i must be dreaming."
[19:50] <@Serenity> and my brain said, "no - you're awake"
[19:50] <Marlowe> Hmm, can't you use that same logic to summon objects - giving reasons for your brain that they're
there?
[19:50] <Vesterguard> please say you were actually awake! ^^
[19:50] <smushy> schemas: acceptance for oddness. fault logic: reasoning for why the oddness is accepted. correct?
[19:50] <@Serenity> and i'm all like, "how am i awake, i'm walking around naked?"
[19:51] <@Serenity> brain says, "Oh, there's a good reason for it" and then trumped me by waking me up :S
[19:51] <@Serenity> smushy, yes
[19:51] <cardeal> That kinda hapened to me last night :S
[19:51] <Marlowe> Haha then you were like, "Oh that's right, I was headed for Marlowe's house" haha jk
[19:51] <AstralFae18> dumbo!
[19:51] <@Serenity> or... i used a magical ability and thought "now why can i do that?"
[19:52] <@Serenity> my dream said "you're an apprentice"
[19:52] <smushy> You shouldve ate an orange as soon as you started questioning why you were naked.
[19:52] <@Serenity> which leads into the next one... false memories!
[19:52] <smushy> It's what I would have done.
[19:52] <@Serenity> false memories are sometimes what i like to call "plot set-up"
[19:52] <@Serenity> smushy, i bet you never get sick :P
[19:53] <nobodycares> I had this dream where I took a $9, $27, and $4 out of an ATM machine. My rational was "It's
in Washington, DC, of course it doesn't make sense. Bills are weird in this city."
[19:53] <cardeal> lol
[19:53] <Marlowe> haha he's Scurvy free ;)
[19:53] <smushy> QUESTION! Can false memories be a factor that create your faulty logic?
[19:53] <@Serenity> false memories are those plot fillers your dreams give you when something doesn't add up
[19:53] <@Serenity> smushy, yeah
[19:53] <@Serenity> nobody, awww xD
[19:54] <Vesterguard> Question: Do false memories have a deja vu qualia to them?
[19:54] <smushy> Okay, thank you Serenity! I'll try to tone down on the questions.
[19:54] <@Serenity> like, i once saw this girl run up to me and call me by name... and i'm like, "who the hell is
she? .... oh! she's my friend from college!"
[19:54] <nobodycares> QUESTION! I would like to induce dreaming through reality checks, awareness, and find out
I'm dreaming completely in the dream. I only sleep 6 hours a night so WILD isn't an option. Does one have to do
reality checks every 5 minutes to get into the pattern of Lucid Dreaming? I don't want this controlling my life.
[19:54] <@Akono> the prefrontal cortex isn't active during dreaming....and it's what effects all of our "executive
decisions" ie telling the difference between good bad conflicting thoughts...ect.
[19:54] <@Serenity> vester, hmm, i dunno...it doesn't feel like that to me, but it's not to say it can't for
others
[19:54] <@Akono> when we become lucid, it' activates.
[19:54] <@Serenity> thanks akono ph.d :)
[19:55] <@Serenity> nobody... that's lengthy, hang on :)
[19:55] <@Serenity> may i answer this one after class and i'll include it in the chat log?
[19:56] <@Serenity> just cos i have 4 mins to get through the rest of dream content
[19:56] <nobodycares> sure
[19:56] <smushy> nobodycares: I just started doing it when something strange happens or when I space out and become
unusually aware of all the things in my surroundings.
[19:57] <@Serenity> another dream content subject is dreams being affected by strong emotions, lust, or fear
(amongst other things)
[19:57] <jessie1203> yes!! i wanna know about htat
[19:57] <jessie1203> *that
[19:57] <@Serenity> going a bit freudian for a bit :D
[19:57] <@Serenity> for all you psych majors
[19:57] <@Serenity> the id, ego and superego
[19:58] <theking> lol
[19:58] <cardeal> damn i was in fear a while ago and still a bit :S
[19:58] <nobodycares> smushy: But if your logical part of the brain isn't active how can you tell when something
strange happens? I did these reality checks with holding my nose for a while...A lot of the time I didn't realize
I was dreaming until I did it, even with no reason for it at all.
[19:58] <Marlowe> Lust huh...that might as well be one of my dream signs >.>
[19:58] <@Serenity> ego = creates conscious awareness, it analyses what is going on and mediates between the
superego and the id.
[19:58] <AstralFae18> mine too >>
[19:58] <@Serenity> superego = creates mental boundaries, keeping you from doing things that are socially
unacceptable and taboo.
[19:59] <@Serenity> id = is purely instinctual and runs off of emotion and primal needs.
[19:59] <@Serenity> The ego and the superego tend to dominate your waking life, but they are logical, and are
focused around the logical centre of the brain, which is shut off.
[19:59] <@Serenity> so.... what that leaves us with, is our friend, the id
[19:59] <Marlowe> haha plently of that in dreams I guess
[20:00] <@Serenity> so, the id, not having the boundaries of the ego and superego, tends to experience things fully
[20:00] <smushy> nobodycares: I don't like to think of it as completely inactive (dead); I like to think of it as
sleeping. Anything strange will disturb its sleep and perform what you normally do in waking life when something
strange occurs: a reality check.
[20:00] <@Serenity> which leads to emotions feeling so much stronger in dreams
[20:00] <@Serenity> smushy, it's sleeping, yeah
[20:00] <smushy> I'm an extreme beginner, but those are just my thoughts on the matter. We'll see what Serenity has
to say about it, later.
[20:00] <@Serenity> it's overworked :)
[20:01] <cardeal> omg he is guarding a ton! :D
[20:01] <jessie1203> but still, the id need the logical part from the other 2 dudes to make you realize you're in a
dream
[20:01] <jessie1203> no?
[20:01] <@Serenity> so, more id, briefly... so emotions are stronger. lust = Because lust and the primal urge to
mate is strong in dreams, sexual temptations may arise very frequently. Many lucid dreams are transformed into
lucid sex dreams because of the overwhelming desire to have sex. This is also due to the unrestrained id.
[20:01] <quorthonafull> Eros and Thanatos
[20:02] <@Serenity> well, as akono mentioned, when we become lucid, the prefrontal cortex turns back on
[20:02] <jessie1203> oh ok ok
[20:02] <nobodycares> I deny sex in dreams, what is wrong with me? lol?
[20:02] <@Serenity> it probably happens just that bit before, because we usually use logic to deduce that we're
dreaming
[20:02] <jessie1203> i keep havin ugly dreams.. like ppl dying and stuff like that
[20:02] <Marlowe> I think I'm wagin a war with my primal id right now for dream control haha
[20:02] <smushy> I have never even dreamt of sex. :-(
[20:02] <jessie1203> :-(
[20:03] <cardeal> me neither
[20:03] <@Serenity> fear, another id thingy = One of the most powerful emotions is fear and like the other
emotions, it is amplified in dreams. That's why nightmares can be so frightening. Not only is the fear amplified in
nightmares, but many schemas are all linked by fear so things that frighten you will constantly show up.
[20:03] <@Serenity> fears can also manifest from anxiety
[20:04] <@Serenity> like say if you're in a play or a show and you're a nervous performer
[20:04] <Marlowe> In other words, never watch a horror movie right before you attempt LDing?
[20:04] <smushy> Great. My friends know me as the anxious paranoid one. :(
[20:04] <@Serenity> or you have to give a class presentation in school
[20:04] <cardeal> I really hate nightmares, had a ton when I was a kid, and speaking no, my sister woke up
screaming :(
[20:04] <cardeal> *now
[20:04] <@Akono> lets keep the side chatter to a minimum
[20:04] <@Serenity> Marlowe I can't watch cop dramas before i go to bed :P
[20:04] <quorthonafull> Or, watch a horror movie and try to recognize the upcoming nightmare
[20:04] <@Serenity> okay, last point :)
[20:05] <nobodycares> I had nightmares when I was a kid. I was then able to have lucid dreams at will, as well as
wake myself up from them. I had LD's every night for a couple of years... now I can't have any.
[20:05] <@Serenity> Attention!
[20:05] <smushy> Agreed, Akono. Everyone, shush!
[20:05] <nobodycares> ok
[20:05] <@Serenity> meaning, our dreams require attention for existence :)
[20:05] <@Serenity> like for instance... i'm lucid, and my mother appears
[20:05] == fakado [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[20:05] <@Serenity> i don't really want to deal with my dear mum, at the moment
[20:05] <fakado> Hey
[20:05] <@Serenity> so i turn away and ignore her
[20:06] <fakado> Am I too late? D:
[20:06] <@Serenity> she disappears :)
[20:06] <@Serenity> fakado, yeah :(
[20:06] <jessie1203> hmm
[20:06] <quorthonafull> too much
[20:06] <smushy> There will be a chat log posted, fakado.
[20:06] == Alex [
[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[20:06] <fakado> Ah okay
[20:06] <fakado> That's a relief
[20:06] == Alex [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[20:06] == mode/#DVA [+y Alex] by irc.dreamviews.com
[20:06] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot
[20:06] <smushy> I think.
[20:06] <fakado> Some website changed the times to making this into 6pm apparently or something
[20:07] <fakado> But then I went and found a pm like.. 5 mins ago D:
[20:07] <theking> Daylight savings time
[20:07] <@Serenity> It helps to try to remember that, when you're dreaming, if you get level 2... you MIGHT be able
to remind yourself "oh right, these things are dreaming, if i ignore them, i can focus on my own things"
[20:07] <theking> probably got standard
[20:07] <cardeal> interesting
[20:08] <@Serenity> like... sometimes, i'm prevented on raising my lucidity because i'm being chased by something
[20:08] <smushy> QUESTION! Using your example, woudn't ignoring your mother push you away from the dream state? You
said your dreams need attention...
[20:08] <@Serenity> smushy, you can just walk away or focus on something else in the dream
[20:08] <cardeal> if you focus on another things no
[20:08] <smushy> So as long as you focus on SOMETHING in your dream?
[20:08] <@Serenity> like... this friend of mine walked through the door and i didn't want to deal with her, so i
walked into a different room and she didn't follow
[20:09] <@Serenity> smushy, yes, you should always focus on something in your dream
[20:09] <@Serenity> it may destabilize if you don
[20:09] <smushy> Okay. Thank you. :)
[20:09] <@Serenity> don't*
[20:09] <Marlowe> So just have something to focus on at all times?
[20:09] <jessie1203> but if you focus TOO much.. sometimes it wakes you up
[20:09] <smushy> Can it just be a thought? Or does it have to be an actual object in the dream?
[20:09] <jessie1203> it happens to me anyways
[20:10] <smushy> Like a door, necklace, ect.
[20:10] <@Serenity> in fact, it's a widely liked technique that if you interact with the dream environment, it
helps stabilize the dream
[20:10] <@Serenity> sec...
[20:10] <smushy> I know that I'll be touching everything in sight if I get lucid.
[20:10] <@Serenity> honestly, if i don't want to deal with something in my dream, i just walk away from i
[20:10] <@Serenity> it
[20:10] == Linkster17 [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[20:10] <@Serenity> I'll fly off somewhere
[20:11] <smushy> Okay.
[20:11] <@Serenity> or walk through a door
[20:11] <Linkster17> did i miss class?
[20:11] <smushy> Ooo flying. :)
[20:11] <@Serenity> yes
[20:11] <@Serenity> that's all attention means
[20:11] <jessie1203> QUESTION! how you u interact with the environment without taking it too seriously and waking
up?
[20:11] <@Serenity> it exists if you focus on it
[20:11] <Linkster17> im sorry, i just checked now, i havent been on dreamviews much lately
[20:11] <@Serenity> jessie... hmm...
[20:12] <jessie1203> idk how else to explain it
[20:12] <@Serenity> i find that the more serious i am, the better it is
[20:12] <@Serenity> like... my last lucid, i prolonged the dream by feeling the roughness of the wood on a door
[20:12] <@Serenity> feeling the coolness of glass, perhaps
[20:12] <jessie1203> just focus on it
[20:12] <@Serenity> the scent of the wind
[20:12] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Say you want to meditate in your dream. Would focusing on breathing alone be anough to
keep the dream stabilized?
[20:13] <jessie1203> i see
[20:13] <@Serenity> Marlowe, i haven't tried meditating yet, in dream
[20:13] <Marlowe> oh ok
[20:13] <@Serenity> i would think that breathing would be a good thing to focus on
[20:13] <@Serenity> the floor beneath you
[20:13] <fakado> I don't seem to be able to lucid dream. I have dreams more often now.. But they end up being
weird. I do RL's everyday but even though in my last dream I had mushrooms grow out of me after I touched a bowl of
icecream. I wasn't able to realise it's a dream.
[20:14] <fakado> Any tips? :\
[20:14] <@Serenity> that's another lengthy question :P hang on
[20:14] <Vesterguard> @Marlowe.. I woke myself up from my last lucid by closing my eyes and focus on my breath
[20:14] <Vesterguard> so might only be handy for some
[20:14] <@Serenity> okay... so class is officially over, but i'm still arund for chats and questions
nobodycares's question about reality checking...
[20:17] <@Serenity> alright, tip 1
[20:17] == Vesterguard [
[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[20:17] <@Serenity> pick some target to reality check to
[20:18] <@Serenity> it could be, everytime you see yourself in a mirror
[20:18] <@Serenity> everytime you see your pet
[20:18] <@Serenity> everytime you see a blue cat
[20:18] <@Serenity> car :(
[20:18] <@Serenity> not cat :P
[20:18] <jessie1203> lol
[20:18] == cardeal [
[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[20:18] <fakado> :p
[20:18] <@Serenity> The ETWOLD had some great ideas
[20:19] <smushy> blue cat lol
[20:19] <@Serenity> like pressing buttons, turning on the TV
[20:19] <Linkster17> the ETWOLD?
[20:19] <jessie1203> kinda hard RC... blue cat!?
[20:19] <@Serenity> exploring the world of lucid dreaming
[20:19] == theking [
[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[20:19] <Linkster17> lol, u r dreaming if u see a blue cat
[20:19] <smushy> *looks up blue cat on craigslist*
[20:19] <@Serenity> it's a book on how to lucid dream, written by stephen laberge
[20:19] <jessie1203> lol
[20:19] <jessie1203> xD
[20:19] <Linkster17> ahh ok
[20:20] <@Serenity> or watching the new smarties commercial
[20:20] <@Serenity> ohhh right, american smarties aren't like canadian ones!
[20:20] <nobodycares> ok, so pick a target and focus on that in your dreams
[20:20] <@Serenity> there's a blue cat in that commercial :P
[20:20] <Linkster17> lol
[20:20] <smushy> Would you suggest doing a RC when something strange happens?
[20:20] <Linkster17> i would
[20:20] <nobodycares> This really takes intent and persistance, and for some reason I don't seem to want it bad.
But I want to want it badly, if that makes sense :)
[20:20] <@Serenity> nobodycares, do you notice if you have any dream signs that occur a lot in your waking life?
[20:20] <@Serenity> smushy, yes, but MORE than that
[20:21] <Linkster17> same here nobodycares lol
[20:21] <@Serenity> you should do a reality check everytime you think about one
[20:21] <@Serenity> and it should be very involved
[20:21] <fakado> I find it hard to RC.. I mean come on.. Mushrooms growing out of me and I couldn't figure out it's
a dream
[20:21] <fakado> The mushrooms looked abit mutated
[20:21] <smushy> What do you mean by "very involved"?
[20:21] <@Serenity> like "what did i do 5 minutes ago? what does that sign say? does where i am make LOGICAL
sense?"
[20:22] <nobodycares> no dreamsigns here
[20:22] <smushy> So it the RC doesn't need to be persistent? You can be a little free at what your RC is?
[20:22] <@Serenity> reality checks NEED to be used in a way to prove to yourself, why am i not dreaming right now?
[20:22] <nobodycares> Perhaps hotels and guns, but none that I see in my waking life (I usually am armed and at
foreign places in my dreams)
[20:22] <smushy> You don't need to read the same sign each time you reality check.
[20:22] <@Serenity> smushy, my reality check is testing if my body has weight, or aches :P
[20:22] <@Serenity> so yeah, they're pretty flexible
[20:22] <Linkster17> <fakado> I find it hard to RC.. I mean come on.. Mushrooms growing out of me and I couldn't
figure out it's a dream.* i can beat that, saw a rip in the sky that was a portal with lots of dark colors and
didnt think about doing a rc
[20:23] <fakado> Maybe an alien attack.. never know :|
[20:23] <fakado> Or portal storm :p
[20:23] <@Serenity> i'll go over reality checks in depth on thursday
[20:23] <fakado> But mutated mushrooms growing out of me
[20:23] <fakado> Creepy stuff there
[20:23] <smushy> I parked my car in a giant tree growing in the middle of street with two giant amazon women
sitting in it.
[20:23] <Linkster17> lol
[20:23] <smushy> and I don't even drive.
[20:23] <@Serenity> alright, so TIP 2 on reality checking more often - make your day about all-day awareness
[20:23] <smushy> Or own a car.
[20:23] <fakado> My body was itching all day long after I woke up and wrote the dream down
[20:24] <@Serenity> like for instance, try to constantly question the world around you
[20:24] <smushy> As a paranoid freak, I'm a master at that! :D
[20:25] <@Serenity> what's happening around you, and does it make logical sense?
[20:25] <@Serenity> what are you doing at this moment? why? does it make sense? what were you doing 5 minutes ago?
[20:25] <@Serenity> and get a feel for what being awake feels like, because dreaming actually feels quiite
different ;)
[20:26] <Linkster17> yep, its better lol
[20:26] <jessie1203> :D
[20:26] <jessie1203> cool!
[20:26] <@Serenity> tip 3 - for the memory impaired - set an alarm for every hour, or 30 mins or so
[20:26] <jessie1203> YES!!
[20:26] <jessie1203> ME ME!
[20:26] <Linkster17> lol
[20:27] == nobodycares [
[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[20:27] <@Serenity> when you hear your alarm, ask yourself the same questions
[20:27] <@Serenity> why are you not dreaming right now?
[20:27] <@Serenity> what's happening?
[20:27] <@Serenity> where are you?
[20:27] == nobodycares [
[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[20:27] <@Serenity> can you read signs? do they say the same thing when you look away and back again?
[20:27] <@Serenity> what time does your watch say?
[20:27] <@Serenity> check it again
[20:27] <@Serenity> and again :P
[21:03] <@Serenity> Day Residue =
Lucid Dreaming #6 - Day Residue in Dreams
[21:04] <smushy> Yay blue links!
[21:04] <smushy> Thank you, Serenity!
[21:04] <@Serenity> faulty logic =
Lucid Dreaming #7 - Faulty Logic in Dreams
[21:04] <@Serenity> :D
[21:05] <smushy> woah, it's like Christmas.
[21:05] <@Serenity> and false memories =
Lucid Dreaming #8 - False Remembrance in Dreams
