Wikileaks vs US

I fully understand that it should take a little longer to catch someone in such a lawless region but just a little.

Bin Laden is, or should be, up against the US military, US intelligence (CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, and others), British military, British intelligence agencies (MI5, SIS, GCHQ, DIS, and yes still others), and INTERPOL. These are the best "neutralization" powers ever in human history and yet this guy not only continues to operate but is expanding his operations in several African nations and one middle eastern nation. Look back at those institutions I just mentioned and imagine being up against just one of them and all the tremendous power they can wield. Add to this the fact that Bin Laden is a wanted person, criminally in several nations.

There are no pending legal accusations against Assange in all but Sweden and he has not been legally accused of any crime in the US, the land that's proud to say "innocent till proven guilty" yet, under the flimsy guise of the frame job in Sweden, his organization in most of the world has been shut down. In the US servers have been "convinced" to stop serving his content, huge banking services like Mastercard and Pay Pal have been "convinced" to break all contact as well. His whole corporation has been attacked and hit hard by the US.

Mind you this is, by law, an innocent man. There have been no charges brought against Assange or Wikileaks in the US, none. There have been no warrants issued in the thousands of actions it took to shut off Wikileaks to most of the citizens of the US and all this for the same actions news agencies engage in all the time. Add to this that the US government was able to do all this in just a couple of weeks and its quite amazing.

The difference between these two is that in the intelligence communities Al-Qaeda is job-security where Wikileaks is a heads-will-roll situation. The people in charge are motivated to stop Wikileaks as they may well have. Al-Qaeda on the other hand increases job security for them, and military enrollment while giving the moral high ground as well.

Wikileaks has done what it proposed to do, strip naked the actions of our governments, but not so much in cables but in the lawless and shameless lengths our governments have gone to hurt a man who is by law innocent.


US Intelligence agencies.

Stefan Molyneux has an excellent video concerning the whole prosecution of Assange and Wikileaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV5N_2nuYzY

Also, it looks like Anonymous was behind the "attacks" on Mastercard and Sarah Palin's PAC website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-SmC7fH78M

I'm not sure if that's old news or not. I figured it was just a few random people messing with Mastercard and Sarah Palin, but to learn that it was Anonymous is epic.

I was in teh Hive, LOICing teh enemiez. <3 Anon

For those interested, the libertarian website lewrockwell.com is hosting a wikileaks mirror: Wikileaks Mirror Connector

(Hopefully that doesn't count as advertising.)

I hope Julian Asange gets away scot free, the guy is realy brave to take on the WHOLE WORLD pretty much, he has nowhere else left to go.

The demonizing of wikileaks has been successful. My parents believe "Julian Asange is a psychopath putting millions of lives at risk, they think he should be locked in jail for life." They said they feel safer with him in jail, and that if he kept publishing those stories he would cause WW3. They said he is a terrorist supporting the Islamic giving them free info on where our troops are based etc etc. They also believe i am a idiot saying he has broken no laws. :doh:

Surprise, surprise

Edit - Yet another great video by Stefan Molyneux on Wikileaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itoBorvUIx0

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The demonizing of wikileaks has been successful. My parents believe "Julian Asange is a psychopath putting millions of lives at risk, they think he should be locked in jail for life." They said they feel safer with him in jail, and that if he kept publishing those stories he would cause WW3. They said he is a terrorist supporting the Islamic giving them free info on where our troops are based etc etc. They also believe i am a idiot saying he has broken no laws.

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"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."
Adolf Hitler

Just keep thinking and keep talking.


I leave you with a much better man's quote:

"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."
Samuel Adams "The Father of the American Revolution"

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Originally Posted by Xei

I think the most advanced army and surveillance equipment in the world is a good substitute for 'law and infrastructure'.

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Originally Posted by Caden

I fully understand that it should take a little longer to catch someone in such a lawless region but just a little.

Bin Laden is, or should be, up against the US military, US intelligence (CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland Security, and others), British military, British intelligence agencies (MI5, SIS, GCHQ, DIS, and yes still others), and INTERPOL. These are the best "neutralization" powers ever in human history and yet this guy not only continues to operate but is expanding his operations in several African nations and one middle eastern nation. Look back at those institutions I just mentioned and imagine being up against just one of them and all the tremendous power they can wield. Add to this the fact that Bin Laden is a wanted person, criminally in several nations.

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You guys are severely overestimating the capabilities of these institutions. I feel like your vision of the American military's presence in Afghanistan is that of an iron hand crushing a crumbling rock. The reality is that there are still many disputed areas in Afghanistan. We have not won the war there, not by a long shot.

There are many plausible explanations why Osama has not been apprehended. Afghanistan is big and mountainous. The United States military cannot possibly be everywhere at once and our vehicles cannot go everywhere. He could have simply packed up and moved to Iran. There is even doubt that Osama is still alive.

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Originally Posted by Caden

There are no pending legal accusations against Assange in all but Sweden and he has not been legally accused of any crime in the US, the land that's proud to say "innocent till proven guilty" yet, under the flimsy guise of the frame job in Sweden, his organization in most of the world has been shut down.

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I thought we were talking about the United States' actions toward Wikileaks.

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Originally Posted by Caden

In the US servers have been "convinced" to stop serving his content, huge banking services like Mastercard and Pay Pal have been "convinced" to break all contact as well. His whole corporation has been attacked and hit hard by the US.

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Originally Posted by Caden

Mind you this is, by law, an innocent man. There have been no charges brought against Assange or Wikileaks in the US, none. There have been no warrants issued in the thousands of actions it took to shut off Wikileaks to most of the citizens of the US and all this for the same actions news agencies engage in all the time. Add to this that the US government was able to do all this in just a couple of weeks and its quite amazing.

The difference between these two is that in the intelligence communities Al-Qaeda is job-security where Wikileaks is a heads-will-roll situation. The people in charge are motivated to stop Wikileaks as they may well have. Al-Qaeda on the other hand increases job security for them, and military enrollment while giving the moral high ground as well.

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You mean his whole organization has been attacked?

I question how much involvement the U.S. government had to do with Mastercard and PayPal's actions. It sounds like a PR decision. But whatever.

In just a couple of weeks? Wikileaks has been leaking information concerning the U.S. for months.

Of course the American government is going to try and dismantle an organization that is making public secret information. Do I approve of it? I really haven't decided yet. What I don't approve of is how you're trying to equate the situation of Wikileaks with the situation of Al Qaeda. The two are worlds apart. The government is doing what it can to squash both organizations. In the case of Wikileaks, that happens to be targeting the source of its finances (if the government really had anything to do with that of course). In the case of Al Qaeda, since its leader probably danced out of our reach years ago, that happens to be killing members of its organization.


I swear, this poster sounds like a bizarro Glenn Beck. Again, shame on you five for thanking a terrible, terrible post.

Bin Laden, if alive, is probably in Pakistan (just across the border from Afghanistan) safely out of NATO's political reach...

The guy in the video above doesn't seem to know what he's talking about (judging by the minute that I watched). Assange is not in jail in Sweden, he is in the UK, fighting extradition to Sweden. Sweden is the country trying to pin these rape charges on him (they tried this the last time Wikileaks did a major leak but failed), but refuses to actually talk about these claims with Assange's lawyers, so Sweden is hardly the bastion of freedom of press in contrast with the US which he seems to think it is.

Anyway, Assange has been successful in his appeal against the refusal of bail, which he has now been granted, which is the first bit of good news for a while.

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Originally Posted by Xei

The guy in the video above doesn't seem to know what he's talking about (judging by the minute that I watched). Assange is not in jail in Sweden, he is in the UK, fighting extradition to Sweden. Sweden is the country trying to pin these rape charges on him (they tried this the last time Wikileaks did a major leak but failed), but refuses to actually talk about these claims with Assange's lawyers, so Sweden is hardly the bastion of freedom of press in contrast with the US which he seems to think it is.

Anyway, Assange has been successful in his appeal against the refusal of bail, which he has now been granted, which is the first bit of good news for a while.

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He corrected himself in another video, I believe.

I'm afraid it's really not good enough for a guy masquerading under the banner of 'True News' to fail at basic research. Like, really basic.

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Originally Posted by Xei

I'm afraid it's really not good enough for a guy masquerading under the banner of 'True News' to fail at basic research. Like, really basic.

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...He misspoke. It's not a big deal, really.

He thanks people for correcting him at 14:42 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAPBbxOw7Jw

He clearly didn't misspeak, he elaborated on it.

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Originally Posted by happydreamer

I hope Julian Asange gets away scot free, the guy is realy brave to take on the WHOLE WORLD pretty much, he has nowhere else left to go.

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I believe that Ecuador may offer him safe haven.

He's not in trouble for leaking information, he's in trouble for rape.

What.

You didn't know that that's why he was arrested in England?

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Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Also, it looks like Anonymous was behind the "attacks" on Mastercard and Sarah Palin's PAC website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-SmC7fH78M

I'm not sure if that's old news or not. I figured it was just a few random people messing with Mastercard and Sarah Palin, but to learn that it was Anonymous is epic.

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http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikileaks.png

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Originally Posted by ninja9578

You didn't know that that's why he was arrested in England?

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Yes? I'm just saying that anybody who actually believes these charges is a numpty. The first time Wikileaks does a major leak, a few days later two women happen to remember they were raped by him, although this charge is quickly dropped on account of it being bollocks. The next time Wikileaks does a major leak, Sweden suddenly remembers the whole rape thing again, which has apparently now 'gone through after bureaucratic delays', although when Assange's lawyers try to contact Sweden to discuss the charges, they refuse to speak.

It's about as suspicious as this chicken.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5Gq2ImzLPD...hersMcGraw.jpg

I saw that last week, thought it was hilarious.

Anonymous are just a bunch of looser hackers in their parent's basement. Go out into natural light and get laid instead idiots.

I read that the rape charges stem from Assange's refusal to take an HIV test.

Possible, he hasn't been convicted, but charged. Sweden's laws on what defines rape is a joke.

Avoid rape - say "Yes"! :cheeky: