One of the most poignant rants I've ever heard. :clap:
[Edit]
And just in case there are people out there who still don't understand how this world is run, here's a little wake-up call from the UK.
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One of the most poignant rants I've ever heard. :clap:
[Edit]
And just in case there are people out there who still don't understand how this world is run, here's a little wake-up call from the UK.
Powerful
Especially because they had the emotional piano behind it but yeah.
First video is right (though adding music is lame).
Second video there is nothing wrong with. All the guy is saying is that if a currency is about to fail, you get the fuck out of the currency and buy assets, which will put you in a much better position than everybody else who just had their savings deleted. He's not controlling anything. He's a spectator who has the wisdom to do well out of the coming storm, and to be candid about it.
Anybody can buy stocks and shares for goodness sakes; you can go do it right now. He's a day trader, not the fucking NWO, and he's saying that buying stupid things makes you stupid. Wow, how scary and evil.
Don't recall saying there was anything 'wrong' with the second video. I didn't say there was anything 'evil' about the video. Hell, I didn't even say there was anything 'scary' about the video. I didn't say anything about the speaker, or what he was or wasn't in 'control' of. What I said is that it was a video to remind people of how the world really works. And, in case you aren't aware, there are still very many people in this world who do not yet know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Just chomping at the bit, to get a chance to say something dissenting and sarcastic, weren't you? Save it for it for a more appropriate time, please.
I agree. The music sounds like something made by Hans Zimmerman.Quote:
Originally Posted by ooflendoodle
Here's the full version w/o music
http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/08/...671#f3f8664c7c
So the only reason you posted it was for the tiny bit near the end where he randomly said 'Goldman Sachs rules the world'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
How do you prepare for a finical collapse? With treasury bonds? I was right up there with the guy in that second video until he said treasury bonds is a good way to prepare. That is a stupid idea. You don't want to be locked into dollar assists while the value of the dollar is crashing.
See, I was wondering the same thing. In the video, the guy says he was investing in more 'stable' (can't remember exact word he used at the moment) trends, 'like the U.S. Dollar'. I was under the impression that the U.S. Dollar has been doing pretty poor lately?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Following a trend without knowing what is happening, is just asking to get burned. The value of the dollar has been going down since we removed the gold standard long ago. On any time scale longer than a few months, the dollar has always been going down. If you look at the "recent trends" the dollar seems to be doing good. However it isn't that the dollar is doing good, but that other currencies have been doing worse. People usually compare currencies to each other, and if you compare the dollar to say the euro which is falling apart, the dollar seems strong, except the dollar is still losing real value.
So yes, the dollar is doing horrible, but is doing good compared to other currencies like the euro. Germany said its reprinting its old currency, so they have a backup plan in case the EU fails or the European Union breaks up. So really out doing them isn't a positive at all.
Ok, good (for my own comprehension. Not for the economy). I figured that it was a matter of 'it's doing relatively good', which is usually a little less black and white than some would normally think. Though I still don't know many of the actual details about the whole financial market, so I try not to overstep my intellectual bounds. Lmao. Seems to be the case, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
It's from the Inception soundtrack.Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
Treasury Bonds are good as long as the economic structure remains intact. The government is not going to declare bankruptcy just because of a depression.
Well in the end he said the savings of millions of people is going to vanish, and that is only the start and he uses strong language like that. So I am thinking he is talking about a real collapse, and not a depression. And in a real collapse you don't want to have treasury bonds. That is why his advice doesn't seem compatible with his reasons.
Of course you may or may not be worried about an entire economic collapse, however I would like to point out a few things. The first is like I said before, the dollar has been falling for longer than I been alive, so in general treasury bonds are not a great buy. Secondly one of the biggest fears of the economy comes from the large government debt. To me, it doesn't make sense to buy US debt(which are basically what treasury bonds are), when US debt is the largest destabilizing factor around. If the debt causes the economy to collapse, which is the fear a lot of people have, then you are going to lose all or most of your money. One of two things will happen, they will hyperinflate the money and you will get worthless money back, or they will default and you will get nothing.
Not sure if serious. But it is Hans lol It's from Inception. Fit that video perfectly, made it so epic lolQuote:
Originally Posted by LucidFlanders
I love that guy (in the video).
I just wonder, whether it is even possible to make money in the way the second video said, if the system gets changed due to the Occupy movement.
Hopefully they all go bankrupt.
You wonder if it's possible to make money if you know companies are going to go downhill?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_(finance)
The guy is an amateur day trader who doesn't even make enough money to support himself that way. I still don't know why people are worrying about that video or what it was posted for. He is no more of an authoritative source than you guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
No, not just companies failing, or going downhill. I mean, if the Occupy movement actually does something. Or if the economy completely collapses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Mostly the second thing. If that happens, wouldn't everybody's money be worth nothing?
I don't see how you can make money, which basically doesn't have any societal "backbone" to it anymore.
In other words, you'd have lots of numbers in your bank account, but they wouldn't mean anything.
You buy physical objects like gold... which gives you vastly more purchasing power than the rest of the population who kept most of their wealth in currency and now have nothing.
The first one was awesome. I'm sure I've posted similar rants on DV several times :P
yeah but, I don't think that's what the guy in the video was saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Yea but I think that is why Xei is saying this guy is an amateur. Oddly enough I agree with him. Shilling for t-notes? Come on. A currency collapse will make those useless. At least with gold it is still a commodity that can attract value even if it isn't a currency.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
Nobody is 'worrying' about the video, and I'm still lost on why you assume that. That video was posted - as I thought was stated and restated - as a wake-up call to people who do not understand the world is run by money. It's not run by ethics, or political values, or any of the other bullshit that people fight about, all the time. The powers that (truly) be don't care about whether the economy is bad, or people are having trouble feeding their families or getting a good education, or how the middle class is being pushed into obscurity. It's a 'money over humanity' philosophy, and some people have a really hard time swallowing that pill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Again, I said nothing about the guy being 'authoritative' or having any sway over anything at all. The message that he was conveying was the point the video was posted.
(In b4 "well everybody already knows that, so your posting the point was really unnecessary." :cheeky:)
If you understand the business cycle and its causes, inflation and its causes, then you probably know as much as any of the professionals on tv talking about economics. If you know what Keynesian economics is and you realize that its has bad practices that are the root cause of most of our current problems, then you are a step ahead of most professionals on tv. A great deal of economists on tv believe in Keynesian economics, but don't understand the business cycle, even though the business cycle is a critical part of Keynesian economics. So they support policies that are known to cause depressions.
Capitalism is meant to have people fall off and die, but America is too sensitive to let that happen and therefore throws off an otherwise perfect model by intervention into independent industry and small businesses. If America just let people fuck up and let the poor fall off as the model intends, there would be no depression.
Dreams4free for president.
???
We're letting the poor die in order to save the rich. This is not capitalism, it's oligarchy
Ah, didn't know hans did inception. Lucky guess on my part about it being Hans. I took a guess because of his Pearl Harbor music like tennessee.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
First off what we do now isn't protecting the poor. When companies are failing we bail them out, when the banks were failing we bailed them out, the poor people never got bailed out. What we are doing are protecting the rich. Instead of letting the rich fail when they mess up we reward them and bail them out. That doesn't help the economy or the poor.
Under capitalism however, poor people are not harmed. It is usually the taxes that harm the poor far more than free trade, which actually creates jobs and thus helps the poor.
I prefer communitarian capitalism, whereas tax dollars are and regulations are used to help the poor. But our country has never been very good at that. They tried this shit after the great depression, too. They bailed the banks out, even bailed the pigs out but it wasn't until FDR became president that they started taking initiative for the common people.
The US Dollar will be the flight to safety option for money fleeing the Euro as it crashes. The US Dollar will have a short pop (measured in months) When the Euro goes down, and then the Dollar will crash as well once the systemic ties to a failed Euro start to take effect. In the short term, the Dollar is safe but if you are buying Treasuries for safety, you should be working out your exit strategy even as you are entering that market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I remember when I realized how easily the US system allows corruption and how no-one seemed to mind (it was on DV, ofc). Really shocked me.
And O, sometimes it seems strange to me that you don't simply use your authority as a mod to end discussions that seems pointless :cheeky:
http://i.imgur.com/vdnim.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by khh
Well, you see, with great power comes.......uhm..........something...
How's that go, again? I forget. :hrm:
Lotsa bitches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Oh yeah, that's it! :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Sleeper
He was talking about himself though, when he was talking about people not caring about whether things collapse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
It's the same with you, and everybody else; you don't worry about if it's going to collapse, because there's nothing you can possibly do about it: you worry about how to make the best of whatever situation occurs. And this is sensible, 'moral' behaviour.
People in power not caring about the consequences of their decisions except where they impact upon themselves is of course a big modern problem (with asset strippers and all the rest), but I don't recall him ever referring to those people.
I think the greatest investment one could make at this time would be lower-end luxuries.
Take the Lipstick Effect. Basically, when the economy drops people assume luxuries drop as well, but this is not true. The truth is that lower-end luxuries increase while higher end luxuries decrease. I.E. people stop buying expensive fur-coats and use that money to buy cheaper luxury items like lipstick instead.
This makes me agree with the guy in OPs second vid because the US is not likely to go into default. While it may hyper-inflate, the catastrophe caused by hyper-inflation will still not cause the bonds to completely lose their value. You're investing in the integrity of the state which is more reliable than the integrity of the stock market.
Even so, I personally would not spend a dime on bonds but I understand why the guy is promoting them. I'm waging on total government collapse. But that may just be wishful thinking.
The absolute worst time to buy US bonds is right now. We all know inflation is coming, but the bond yields have not yet increased to account for that. If you bought a bond now, you'd be in the situation where either: the yield is WAY below inflation, so holding it is losing you money, or if you sell it after the yields jump, you'll lose money on the bond price. The best time to buy bonds is when inflation is obvious and everyone is aware of it, like in the late 1970s. They had bonds back then with 10+% coupon rates. Now they're less than a percent.
In a hyperinflation situation, treasury bonds can easily become worthless. You could have a 10,000 dollar treasury that is only worth 20 cents in modern terms, because the dollar devalued so much. The worst part however, is that you are locked in and no one is going to buy your treasury bond. You can't sell them in a hyperinflation situation, because people try to spend their money as quickly as possible in order to get the most out of their money, because its losing value so quickly. There are stories of hyperinflation in places, where people got paid and their money was worth half its value by the next day.
You might be able to slip in with a year treasury bond, but 5, 10 or 30 year bonds are insanely risky. Any one who buys a 30 year bond is just stupid. I wouldn't touch that even if there was like 80% rate on it, and right now its like 3%. You have to keep in mind that you are stuck with them for that time period. Right now you can sell them and get out if you need to, but if things go very badly, no one is going to buy them, not even for pennies on the dollar.
He was also talking about the millions of other traders out there, along with firms like Goldman Sachs and - by extension - the rest of the people that 'really rule the world', and about how indifferent they are to the state of the economy and the people living within it. Again, there are a lot of people who still don't understand that concept. I thought (and still think) it was relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
And sometimes I wonder if you feign incomprehension, just to try to keep an argument going. If it was really that hard to understand, then I apologize, but I have a hard time believing that you truly didn't get my point.
Whatever, tho. Moving on...
Like I said, it's best to wait for the time when inflation is obvious and is being priced in, like the late 1970's. It's ok to buy bonds under 10% inflation if the yields are also 10%. But right now, we're in the situation where inflation is high but yields haven't caught up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
By the way, I'm fairly certain the US won't experience a Weimar-style hyperinflation. There's too much vested interest in the game to let that happen. More likely is a currency revaluation, perhaps based on a basket of other (stable) currencies. The welfare recipients will be fucked, but the middle and upper classes will benefit.
Well..... I'm going to retain my fantastic job, my assets, and everything of value that I have. Political propaganda is really just the lower class plebeians trying to feel important in the socio-political spectrum, necessary evil of capitalism: living with lower class.
< SORRY, ALLOW ME TO BE MORE CLEAR >
When I mentioned propaganda, I meant the absurd, unsubstantiated, radically speculated sensationalist theories that stem from unsophisticated, depressed people that unrelentingly try to feel meaningful. In all intents and purposes they get attention, and their voice is heard. But their voice is analogus to a 2 month old baby's voice, and following that, it is pretty silly to seriously consider a 2 month old baby's crying and moaning.
Is it really mind blowing that extremely busy, intelligent, and influential people don't ask for the opinion of the dumbass majority when it actually matters?
That is why there is voting and other trivial democratic pursuits to keep the majority from going into a uproar about their "rights".
Heh. Riiiiight. Because it's only the lower class that engages in political propaganda, yeah? :chuckle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreams4free
The problem is the out of control debt. If it keeps going up eventually it gets to the point where it is impossible to pay back unless you use inflation. If they keep letting it go out of control eventually they need massive hyperinflation. At this point we are near the level we can't pay it off, and it keeps getting worse and there is no will in government to fix this problem.
Now unless Ron Paul wins the election, they are probably going to continue the status quo, and by the time they realize they have to fix it, its going to be impossible to pay off.
I should of been more clear. I meant absurd, unsubstantiated, radically speculated sensationalist theories that stem from unsophisticated, depressed people that unrelentingly try to feel meaningful. In all intents and purposes they get attention, and their voice is heard. But their voice is analogus to a 2 month old baby's voice, and following that, it is pretty silly to seriously consider a 2 month old baby's crying and moaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Is it really mind blowing that extremely busy, intelligent, and influential people don't ask for the opinion of the dumbass majority when it actually matters?
That is why there is voting and other trivial democratic pursuits to keep the majority from going into a uproar about their "rights".
The problem is we often don't have intelligent people in the positions of great influence. Getting elected is often more about appealing to the majority and being 'popular' than about actually knowing anything.
I'll try to keep that in mind, next time I read a news story about a mother putting her infant child in an oven, or dumping their newborn in a river. Everything is relative, and sometimes those newborn children know more about what they actually need to survive than their out-of-touch parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreams4free
There's just one thing I'm wondering about this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Not everyone engages in short selling. Does every big firm do it?
Although I suppose they would if the economy was crashing.
Still, someone has to lose in that situation. So they can't all win, and I
think a lot of them would still be worrying about whether they will survive in the market or not.
You are an absolute moron. I do not like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreams4free
People who trade stocks successfully are not necessarily intelligent. Almost anybody can do it. Most people just decide not to spend their life doing something so pointless and trivial and unhelpful.
Also, I like the fact that you say the "plebeians" are kept amused with trivial pursuits to stop them revolting. Yet there are protests going on worldwide right now regarding the rampant corruption in government, who are being bought buy these "intelligent, busy, influential" people.
Don't worry, I used to be similar to you. Had a pretty harsh view of the world and figured anyone who is not well-off financially or looked up to by people is worthless.
It's a pretty sad existence though. I do hope you come around and see things from a different angle.
Are you referring to the politicians, or the Banks that pay their campaigns? The banks simply don't care about the people if it hurts their bottom line, and what makes you think the politicians are intelligent? Here are three very influential politicians, each dumber and less educated than the last.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreams4free
http://topnews.in/files/george-w-bush_1.jpeghttp://www.nndb.com/people/359/000022293/reagan.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Lightened.JPG
And you do know that voting doesn't work right? The banks and other big corporations select who we can vote for. A political campaign costs millions, only the wealthiest can afford that, or those backed by enormous companies.
with the exception of the original post made by the OP, the majority of this thread makes me sick :?
only the depressed argue that meaningful is something you try to feel