Diagnosis required - What is wrong with me ?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Their effects are very similar, as I showed, so my metaphor was legitimate. Even if I had been wrong, the way you came out of nowhere acting like a 12 year old brat would have still been stupid.

The advice I gave works, no matter who gives it. He can try it himself and not have to worry about any appeals to authority.

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The effects are only similar in high dosages, as has been the argument for a long long time. Doubting your medical credibility isn't acting like a twelve-year-old in any way.

Your advice was given based on two posts, while a doctor will have a whole file and the person actually there, not to mention years of education in the subject and far more knowledge than either one of us. Medicine isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be, and just as you have this image of doctors pushing pills as the solution for every situation you're pushing changes in diet the same way.

Does it hurt for TiredPhil to get some advice from his DV friends? Are you thinking good ol' Phil is some kind of child who will take the advice as 100% true? I assume he will just read them, take the ideas as interesting things to think about, and continue to make up his own mind, like an adult.

General medical advice is only bad if the person is passing their opinion off as truth, or misrepresenting their credentials. I see your logic, but to suggest Universal Mind's ideas are harmful, minimizes TiredPhil's ability to think for himself in general.

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Originally Posted by sivason

Does it hurt for TiredPhil to get some advice from his DV friends? Are you thinking good ol' Phil is some kind of child who will take the advice as 100% true? I assume he will just read them, take the ideas as interesting things to think about, and continue to make up his own mind, like an adult.

General medical advice is only bad if the person is passing their opinion off as truth, or misrepresenting their credentials. I see your logic, but to suggest Universal Mind's ideas are harmful, minimizes TiredPhil's ability to think for himself in general.

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That's why I said "If you're truly concerned" in my first post, right before UM denounced medication. If he's just looking for friendly advice, super. If he thinks he has a serious problem then he's in the wrong place.

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Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

That's why I said "If you're truly concerned" in my first post, right before UM denounced medication. If he's just looking for friendly advice, super. If he thinks he has a serious problem then he's in the wrong place.

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Good enough for me. Peace.

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Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

The effects are only similar in high dosages, as has been the argument for a long long time. Doubting your medical credibility isn't acting like a twelve-year-old in any way.

Your advice was given based on two posts, while a doctor will have a whole file and the person actually there, not to mention years of education in the subject and far more knowledge than either one of us. Medicine isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be, and just as you have this image of doctors pushing pills as the solution for every situation you're pushing changes in diet the same way.

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Do the research. The vast majority of doctors are pill pushers way over being nutritionists. No matter what Phil wants to do with doctors, he should try what I suggested. If everything is okay after he tries my suggestions, what would be the point of seeing a doctor then?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Do the research. The vast majority of doctors are pill pushers way over being nutritionists. No matter what Phil wants to do with doctors, he should try what I suggested. If everything is okay after he tries my suggestions, what would be the point of seeing a doctor then?

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If OP seriously thinks he has a problem, then no matter what he shouldn't be on a forum asking for a diagnosis. Whether your advice this particular time is valid or not is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

If OP seriously thinks he has a problem, then no matter what he shouldn't be on a forum asking for a diagnosis. Whether your advice this particular time is valid or not is irrelevant.

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I don't think you understand how in the dark most doctors are when it comes to nutritional issues. Phil should try what I said no matter what he does or doesn't do with a doctor. If he sees a doctor, which might be worth checking out to at least get ideas, I can almost guarantee that the doctor is going to be thinking pills and give him a prescription for something fucked up. I have had my own experiences and taught way too many zombie students who are victims of big pharma. ADD pills SUCK. Beware.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't think you understand how in the dark most doctors are when it comes to nutritional issues. Phil should try what I said no matter what he does or doesn't do with a doctor. If he sees a doctor, which might be worth checking out to at least get ideas, I can almost guarantee that the doctor is going to be thinking pills and give him a prescription for something fucked up. I have had my own experiences and taught way too many zombie students who are victims of big pharma. ADD pills SUCK. Beware.

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I've met both people who've gotten great results from ADD medication and people who've gotten terrible results, and not only did they hate it but if you saw them both with and without you could tell it was doing more harm than good. They can work wonders on the right people, and if OP is one of those people then a doctor can help him. Nutrition isn't always the answer and can do good or do harm the exact same way medicine can.

If OP is as concerned about being pushed medication as you, a psychologist is also an option. They aren't allowed to prescribe things and, once again, know more than either of us. No matter what your problem, the internet is not and never has been a good place to get a diagnosis or a cure. Ever.

I am pretty sure most doctors know an incredible amount about nutrition. That is nutritional facts that can be studied and supported.

Here is an example,,, some alternative types say you must eat your veggies raw. They say cooking it removes a vital 'life' element from it. A doctor is probably going to want some proof of this missing 'life' element, as it appears to science that cooked veggies are more thoroughly digested and cause less gas and stomach distress. So,,, I suppose you could laugh and say medical types know nothing, because they fail to acknowledge 'life' as a food component. However, from my way of seeing things the whole easily digestible, less stomach distress, is the winner.

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Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

I've met both people who've gotten great results from ADD medication and people who've gotten terrible results, and not only did they hate it but if you saw them both with and without you could tell it was doing more harm than good. They can work wonders on the right people, and if OP is one of those people then a doctor can help him. Nutrition isn't always the answer and can do good or do harm the exact same way medicine can.

If OP is as concerned about being pushed medication as you, a psychologist is also an option. They aren't allowed to prescribe things and, once again, know more than either of us. No matter what your problem, the internet is not and never has been a good place to get a diagnosis or a cure. Ever.

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I am not saying he should not see a doctor. I am saying that he should be careful with doctors and that the health advice I gave him is good advice no matter what else he does. The nutritional advice I gave him cannot do any harm. I didn't say he should take megavitamins or anything. Bleached grains are horrible and unnatural, caffeine is not something humans have to have, and there is nothing wrong with not abusing pot. I have been through this game myself. I know how it works.

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Originally Posted by sivason

I am pretty sure most doctors know an incredible amount about nutrition. That is nutritional facts that can be studied and supported.

Here is an example,,, some alternative types say you must eat your veggies raw. They say cooking it removes a vital 'life' element from it. A doctor is probably going to want some proof of this missing 'life' element, as it appears to science that cooked veggies are more thoroughly digested and cause less gas and stomach distress. So,,, I suppose you could laugh and say medical types know nothing, because they fail to acknowledge 'life' as a food component. However, from my way of seeing things the whole easily digestible, less stomach distress, is the winner.

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I am not into the raw foods thing, but I am into natural foods. Ask 100 random doctors what is wrong with bleached grains. I bet most of them have their heads up their asses. I assure that the diabetes epidemic would cease production if bleached grains disappeared off the face of the earth. I am glad doctors care about the scientific method, but they need to look hard into this issue. They are not doing it like they should, though things have gotten better since 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The nutritional advice I gave him cannot do any harm.

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this time.

Have you noticed that I haven't once said your advice was wrong? The most I've said is that caffeine isn't harmful and that IMO marijuana can potentially help. You just keep trying to talk about your problem with doctors.

I've said this like five times, but no matter how legitimate your advice is and no matter whether it's harmful or not, if OP seriously, truly is concerned about his health and mental well-being he should never have come to a forum. But just the same, as I also said, if he just wants some friendly advice then whatever.

And I haven't said he shouldn't see a doctor. I just told him to beware of bad advice and not to expect any kind of nutritional solution to be offered.

You said that caffeine isn't harmful. It really can be for some people.

The best defense against hypoglycemia ... [Diabetes Technol Ther. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI

This is an article from one of the rare doctors who actually understands this stuff.

http://www.drday.com/attentiondeficit.htm

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Preventing Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and ADHD by Dr. Lorraine Day

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It scares me to think that anyone might believe the things on that page without a second source of any kind. It looks like it was made in 99, claims that my doctor can't cure me, and that accepting God has medicinal value. She repeatedly names off percentages without so much as a single source and skimming through the first page nearly everything she says is either a fallacy or an ignorance of anything that doesn't support her claims.

I don't know how a smart person like you could see that website and think "Yes! This is credible information!" but I seriously recommend you stop trying to use it to support any argument. It looks very foolish on your part.

Also some people are allergic to dogs, that doesn't make them bad or mean that others can't have them or love them or be happier with them with no adverse symptoms. In the majority of the population (by a landslide) caffeine has absolutely no undesirable long-term effects and the only threats are possible withdraw and possible crash.

People with hypoglycemia and diabetes need to avoid caffeine. I didn't get that from that article. I have known it for decades due to many sources and my own experience. The article I posted is not meant to be my ultimate source. It is an article from a medical doctor (which means so much to you) about stuff I already knew. So there's a doctor for Phil. The last line about God isn't something I agree with, but the nutritional information is factual.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

People with hypoglycemia and diabetes need to avoid caffeine. I didn't get that from that article. I have known it for decades due to many sources and my own experience. The article I posted is not meant to be my ultimate source. It is an article from a medical doctor (which means so much to you) about stuff I already knew. So there's a doctor for Phil. The last line about God isn't something I agree with, but the nutritional information is factual.

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Who said OP had either of those things? Now you're just restating what I already said as if it was your point all along.

It's an article with no sources by a doctor trying to state all of it as fact for every single person who has trouble focusing. She uses several fallacies and refuses to look at anyone's side of this but her own. If I met a doctor like her in real life I would discredit them just the same.

Also I'm having trouble finding the place on her website where she confirms she's a doctor. Guide me? All I can see is her ten-step plan to curing cancer and the fact that she believes AIDS can be transmitted through kissing.

BTW, and I think I've said this to some extent - The article about ADHD has some great advice referring to what you should be eating, and everybody should try their best to avoid things that are harmful, but to flaunt it as some kind of cure for ADD or ADHD is both factually and ethically wrong.

What are a doctor's usual sources in a clinic room?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What are a doctor's usual sources in a clinic room?

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Well for one thing actual proof that they're a doctor.

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Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

Well for one thing actual proof that they're a doctor.

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Lorraine Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Speaker 2011 - LORRAINE DAY, M.D.

Success Stories

https://www.doximity.com/pub/lorraine-day-md

Your conversation has departed from the OP. Remember what this thread was created for and post accordingly. TiredPhil may still need support.

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Originally Posted by melanieb

Your conversation has departed from the OP.

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We are discussing what advice Phil should take.

Do not stop this on my behalf.
All the points of view coming forward are very interesting, and I am taking a lot of the advice on board.
Not saying which, though.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Lorraine Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Speaker 2011 - LORRAINE DAY, M.D.

Success Stories

https://www.doximity.com/pub/lorraine-day-md

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Stay Away from Dr. Lorraine Day

Encyclopedia of American Loons: #98: Lorraine Day

At this point I don't know if you're trying to tell me her information is credible or trying to show me that doctors too can give bad advice. I'm thinking it's the latter.

No, I was just illustrating what is stated in your first link: "Dr. Day graduated from the University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine in 1969 and then trained in orthopedic surgery at two San Francisco hospitals." That's all I was going for.

You suggested earlier that there is no proof that she is a doctor. Now you have it. I know first hand that what she says makes sense. Phil can try it out for himself and see the truth of it. So can anybody else reading this.

The pharmaceutical industry's worst nightmare are doctors who spread the truth about natural treatments. Of course they are going to put propaganda against them on the internet.

But any way, Lorraine Day is a verified medical doctor.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No, I was just illustrating what is stated in your first link: "Dr. Day graduated from the University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine in 1969 and then trained in orthopedic surgery at two San Francisco hospitals." That's all I was going for.

You suggested earlier that there is no proof that she is a doctor. Now you have it. I know first hand that what she says makes sense. Phil can try it out for himself and see the truth of it. So can anybody else reading this.

The pharmaceutical industry's worst nightmare are doctors who spread the truth about natural treatments. Of course they are going to put propaganda against them on the internet.

But any way, Lorraine Day is a verified medical doctor.

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The world's worst enemy is somebody who makes money off of dying people claiming they can cure cancer.

No doctor is against a natural remedy, and no natural remedy is discarded just because it's natural. Aspirin is a natural remedy, for God's sake. Alternative medicine, by definition, has either not yet been proven to work, or been proven not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.

That article you just called "propaganda" had in-text citations after every single claim and served only to discredit blatantly false information by an evil woman looking to make a buck off of lying to sick people.

I am not an expert on cancer, but I do know what can be done about diabetes, hypoglycemia, and attention deficit and that the medical industry at large doesn't push it much but DOCTOR Lorraine Day does.

My advice for cancer patients is to follow doctor's orders while knowing the downside of chemotherapy and to also try Lorraine Day's natural treatments. That is her advice also.