America needs to be more patriotic.

All everybody does is bad mouth the president.

This is NOT the worst president we've ever had! Get a hold of yourselves america!

If you don't like the way things are going, you VOTE you CAMPAIGN you PICKET you don't MOAN ON MYSPACE ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT

Making fun of someone's name or posting videos of when the president makes a mistake in a speech DOES NOT GET ANYTHING DONE

You don't have to SUPPORT the president (i dont), you just have to accept it, and maybe in four years your party will have a shot at it.

And waving an american flag does not mean you support bush it just means you support your country

truer words are rarely spoken, pOOp. People love to bitch in America but at the same time they hate to vote.

hes not the worst but hes not the brightest nail in the happy meal either

i know what you mean about being more patriotic and the only way thats going to happen is if somthing bad happens again thats the only way it ever works

Hes not the worst but probably down in the lower levels of presidents.

People do need to be more patriotic though. They need to remeber what our country is based on though. A lot of people today have some warped sense of patriotism. Following the president or saying "I support our troops" isn't patriotism.

It was that kind of thinking that lead to the deaths of millions in World War 1. If people don't openly criticize then how can we ensure bad moves will not be repeated? Nothing can improve without criticism, it's simple evolution, how will our president know to swim faster without a shark constantly trying to eat his ass up? And when our government's inability to take care of the population reaches critical mass (as it is fastly approaching) that shark will eat that fish, and that, too, is evolution.

And yes, by the way, comparitively he is easily the worst President ever. Never has a single man in the history of the world screwed his own people more than that guy.

Oh, except for that one dude in Sodom.

Actually I would rank them something like Lincoln, FDR then Bush. So the third worst president is about right.

I would rank the 5 worst Presidents of all time as:

1. Bush
2. Jackson
3. Reagan
4. Nixon
5. Polk

So, yeah, there's a difference in opinion.

Really Jackson ranked at two? I can see him on the list but that seems high.

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Originally posted by pOOp
All everybody does is bad mouth the president.

This is NOT the worst president we've ever had! Get a hold of yourselves america!

If you don't like the way things are going, you VOTE you CAMPAIGN you PICKET you don't MOAN ON MYSPACE ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT

Making fun of someone's name or posting videos of when the president makes a mistake in a speech DOES NOT GET ANYTHING DONE

You don't have to SUPPORT the president (i dont), you just have to accept it, and maybe in four years your party will have a shot at it.

And waving an american flag does not mean you support bush it just means you support your country

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First, only Idiots vote because only Idiots would set themselves up to serve on Jury Duty, and it is from the Pool of Registered Voters that they get Jurors, and you know what they say... "Too stupid to get out of Jury Duty". I guess you never thought of it, huh?

Also, voting is meaningless. Yes, you get to vote for the final outcome of the Nominating Process, but it is the Political Lobbies that pick the candidates, and they are all substantially the same -- endorced by the Gun Lobby and the Zionist Lobby. If one really had a choice between 'heads' or 'tails' then okay... but as it is now, why become vulnerable to Jury Duty just to vote for some favorite version of the same old thing.

Also, moaning and complaining DOES get something done. It shows the World that not all Americans are the Next Wave of Nazi-Like Barbarians. And this may be important later on, for Americans. What if there is a Drought across the Midwest, or the Big One finally hits California and the American Stock Market Collapses taking with it the hyperinflated value of the Dollar. Then America would need the Relief of the Rest of the World, something they would not get if the World thought that every American was solidly behind that Moronic Dictator George Bosh.

For instance, it is difficult for Civilized People to really condemn the English for their Pro-Zionist and misguided interferences in the internal affairs of Iraq, since it is clear that the vast majority of the English disagree with all that. The only Englishman that really wants to march in locked goose-step with America is their PM Tony "The Pucker Slave" Blair. Now why he would go along with America.... I guess he must be a Free Mason too.

Which brings us again to the use of Voting. Why bother when they are all Free Masons.. It is not as though we can vote for the Grand Dragon or anything.

haha very true leo. I was just about to register to vote but I think you changed my mind.

the candidates really are pretty much the same. this last election was like choosing between, well, george bush and john kerry. :?

I'd sooner vote for captain kangaroo.

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Originally posted by Leo Volont


First, only Idiots vote because only Idiots would set themselves up to serve on Jury Duty, and it is from the Pool of Registered Voters that they get Jurors, and you know what they say... "Too stupid to get out of Jury Duty". * I guess you never thought of it, huh?
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hey stupid



how bout you do some research before you post?




[quote]State jury lists are drawn from Driver's License lists

There he is again saying Jury Duty is a punishment. Jury duty is a good thing, it gives you direct control in the outcome of a trial. People complain and moan that their votes mean nothing but then when they have a guarantee DIRECT say on a law, they call it a punishment.

No offence but anyone who says you should avoid jury duty and voting is an idiot, because they are basicly telling you to give up your voice in our government. Its just another example of how our country has fallen. Instead of being interested in giving one of your neighbors justice, you seek to avoid responsibilty and throw them to someone else to deal with. And I thought you were a religious man, were is your sense of justice? Oh wait, you only care about it when its convenient for yourself.

So many things I should respond to...

Okay... yes Jackson is second on my list because that excuse for a scumbag, that sack of 90 year old puss, that crotch-rot piece of shit committed genocide, hard-core genocide that would have made Columbus proud. He was a ruthless, racist warlord. Polk... Polk made up a story of Americans getting shot at so he could steal land from the Mexicans. Polk was the archetype of deception, a model for Nixon to follow, a model for the CIA which pulled the same trick in Vietnam. Reagan back-handedly sent South and Central America to Hell and people are still dying, being disappeared and tortured as a result of him.

But none of that comes close to Bush, not only did his people fake evidence for a war, but they handed the world economy to China and China's new capitalists, which have all the power as America's capitalists without any of those pesky human rights to deal with. That was singularly Bush, Clinton gave us a surplus, it was Bush that sold that hegemonal countrol of the planet to China through massive unpayable debts used for what? To give Halliburton and edge over the competition? That piece of dried excriment, that maggoty, filth-rotted, half-retarded pissface sold us out, lied to us, tore our land up and sold it to developers, let people pollute our air, our water, our soil IRREPARABLY, sacrificed the lifestyles and well-being of our workers for the luxury of the elitists... that man committed the most UNPATRIOTIC ACT of ANY HUMAN BEING to touch foot on American soil INCLUDING THE TERRORISTS!

So yeah, I do think he's the worst president ever, and I do think it pays to bitch about him because we NEED to be patriotic at this point in time, and the way to do that is to tell him he's not welcomed on this planet, and to make it very, very clear he sold out America and betrayed America. Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism.

youre right. I dont know why people are so insistant on bad mouthing the president. perhaps they have forgetten that we have two Houses who are really in charge and president is just a little posse ................................

I'll be patriotic when this country is democratic. congress is passing too many horrible bills or not passing good ones even if 80% of the nation supports it....and good luck finding a good congressman to vote for. I've only found one and hes not even in my state

Bush may be the best thing to have happen to this country. He's beginning to get people to WAKE THE HELL UP and realize how screwed up our country is...haha. Thanks Bush.

Things have gotta get worse before they get better, eh?

I would like to throw Calvin Coolidge's name in as one of the worst presents. He slept 12 hours a day and served right before the Great Depression. I think he caused it in other words.

Defined as "love for one's country and willing to sacrifice for it", you call it patriotism, I call it propaganda. Our country is in a horrible state, the governments do whatever the hell they want, and there's nothing we can do about it. Of course, if someone is offended about some minor issue, which they should not be, then a rule of some sort will get passed, but that only happens when it doesn't matter.

People, hardly know how to think. Like Nina said, Bush is causing people to snap out of their spells and wake up. When a few more people do, I think we need to tear down all structures of authority, and even get rid of currency too. That could be wishful thinking, but that's what I want. I'm not going to complain about it, I would rather do something about it. When I'm ready I will.

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Originally posted by juroara
youre right. I dont know why people are so insistant on bad mouthing the president. perhaps they have forgetten that we have two Houses who are really in charge and president is just a little posse ................................

I'll be patriotic when this country is democratic. congress is passing too many horrible bills or not passing good ones even if 80% of the nation supports it....and good luck finding a good congressman to vote for. I've only found one and hes not even in my state

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You are right, there is a bigger movement and though the president and his advisors have a lot more power than you let on: he unilaterally went into Iraq, initially, and he commands the armed forced, the CIA the FBI, NSA, etc... meaning he can do anything he wants, the Congress just get's to decide if what he's doing is legal or not. The congress has the power to check the president, but because they managed to divide and conquer this country, the congress is basically useless. The only thing congress can agree on is increasses their incumbancy (because what corporation would want tro invest in a one term senator?) and increasing their pay.

But yeah I agree it's not just the one guy that's at fault, there is an elitist reactionary greedy little undercoated movement using religion as a gimmick to fool the religious, patriotism/nationalism as a gimmick to fool the patriots and nationalists and freedom as a gimmick to fool everyone else who's willing to be fooled. Does anyone in this movement stand for any of those? The lobbyists? The guys that hire the lobbyists? The 99% of congress and advisors and judges that do what the lobbyists tell them? No, they're just trying to get paid. But the fact is it is under Bush that all this terrible stuff is happening, like all the power on the planet being given to China's elitists. He can stop any of it, and if you do nothing you do share responsibility for injustice.

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Originally posted by Distant Clone
I would like to throw Calvin Coolidge's name in as one of the worst presents. He slept 12 hours a day and served right before the Great Depression. I think he caused it in other words.

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Well theres basicly two kinds of people. People who want their presidents to do something great and people who want their presidents to follow the constitution. I want them to follow the constitution. If a president sat in office for 8 years and never did a single thing, he would rank above atleast 15 other presidents.

So I don't buy any of that crap. He didn't cause the great depression, and its not the presidents job to do anything at all involving the economy. I am sure you can come up with other reasons to say hes bad, but ranking him in the worst because he actually followed the constituiton is stupid.

alric wrote:

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Actually I would rank them something like Lincoln, FDR then Bush. So the third worst president is about right.[/b]

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i not exactly a historian, but i'm pretty sure lincoln was not the worst president of all time. could you explain why you think this.

leo volontwrote:

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Also, moaning and complaining DOES get something done. It shows the World that not all Americans are the Next Wave of Nazi-Like Barbarians. And this may be important later on, for Americans. What if there is a Drought across the Midwest, or the Big One finally hits California and the American Stock Market Collapses taking with it the hyperinflated value of the Dollar. Then America would need the Relief of the Rest of the World, something they would not get if the World thought that every American was solidly behind that Moronic Dictator George Bosh.[/b]

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right. so making funny videos about him and writing in your blog about how you hate him will get the support of the world, but voting him out of office is for stupid people. great logic. i'm pretty sure most countries would support us based on him not being in office rather than a video of his speech mistakes on 'YouTube'. i could be wrong though.

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Originally posted by rexle


leo volontwrote:

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Also, moaning and complaining DOES get something done. It shows the World that not all Americans are the Next Wave of Nazi-Like Barbarians. And this may be important later on, for Americans. What if there is a Drought across the Midwest, or the Big One finally hits California and the American Stock Market Collapses taking with it the hyperinflated value of the Dollar. Then America would need the Relief of the Rest of the World, something they would not get if the World thought that every American was solidly behind that Moronic Dictator George Bosh.

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right. so making funny videos about him and writing in your blog about how you hate him will get the support of the world, but voting him out of office is for stupid people. great logic. i'm pretty sure most countries would support us based on him not being in office rather than a video of his speech mistakes on 'YouTube'. i could be wrong though.[/b]

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Rexie, you are far to American-Centric. The rest of the World already hates George Bush. It is not as though criticism of George Bush in America will ADD to the the International Distrust and Contempt for George Bush. That is fixed. Its a given. but what it COULD Do is show the International Community that the American Electorate is becoming more trustworthy.

You see, America can rightly be regarded as a Threat to the Remainder of the World if it is at all likely that the American Electorate is perceived as prone to Elect Militarist Dictators.

And it doesn't take much to scare the International Community. Afterall, now that the American Politicians have discovered the Strategy of Third Party Vote Dillution, a particularly cunning Political Party could capture the Executive Branch with only some 34% of the Popular Vote.... that is 34% of the 20% of the people who bother to Vote (in other words, America could go NAZI if just 7 out of 100 People were to Vote for it) ... who bother to expose themselves to Jury Duty by registering to Vote. That is a far less percentage of Crazy Fascists then even Hitler had to shoot for to become Chancellor.

So, really, the way I read History, the International Community would be biding its time and waiting for an opportunity to give America a knockout punch. and it is because, if you ask Americans on the street what they think is Americas Role in the World Today, they more often then not advocate Conquering the World and suppressing all other Nations and Peoples, and that they wish they could vote for Politicians who think as they do.

What we have is the Last Single Superpower in the World verging on the edge of a Campaign of World Genocide and Conquest. Of course the Europeans and the Asians should have some concern there.

And so the problem here is not that Americans are not patriotic enough.

Or let us ask, was Germany's Problem one of being Not Patriotic Enough, or perhaps TOO Patriotic.

America really could use more Citizens of the World. All of these "America Ober Alles" patriots really do present the World with a realistic source for anxiety.

Lincoln is up there as the worst because just like Bush, he totally abused the constitution. They are actually a lot alike in that way. The same goes for FDR too. All 3 just totally ignored the constituion like it meant nothing and they all expanded government like crazy. Which is why they are the 3 worse presidents on my list. If you look at all their major things they did, they are all against the constitution.

As for the threat america is to the rest of the world, I totally agree. To be totally honest I am more scared of the US government than north korea, iran and iraq put togather. Seriously north korea and iran are small potatoes, they can't touch us. In todays world the most likely thing to harm us is our own government. Which is why I get mad when people say you shouldn't vote or go to jury duty and basicly just accept whatever the government says. It just puts us at that much more risk. People have to be more active.

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Originally posted by Alric
Lincoln is up there as the worst because just like Bush, he totally abused the constitution. .

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Duh.

And what makes the Constitution the inspired word of God?

America had a Civil War BECAUSE of flaws in the Constitution. We would call that a Constitutional Crisis.

You see, the Constitution had leaned more in the direction of Chaos then toward Order. Too many States Rights. So, what would we expect from that but a State's Rebellion.

The American Civil War, and Licoln helped to resolve this Constitutional Crisis, on the side of increased power to the Central Government. For instance, now the Federal Army is actually Federal, instead of being made up by autonomous State Regiments.

But, yes, there are still problems with the American Constitution, not the least of which is that certain people think it is some kind of divine document.

Thats the thing Leo. The constitution provides ways in which we can change it. What is chaos is when people out right declear they don't have to follow it. Our government is based on it and if there are flaws, we change them.

I never said the constitution is a divine document but it is the law of the land. Our government is a "constitutional republic". Which means its based on the constitution, and so everyone in our government must follow it.

Its true that its hard to change it but its like that for a reason, so people can't just change it on a whim. It doesn't matter if you agree with the constitution or not, there has to be some order. The government can't just do as the please. So when I say the worst presidents, I am not basing it on if I liked them or not or if I thought they were good or not. I base it on, did they follow the law. And thats black and white.

So again, if you have a problem with it, you change it. We no longer have a legitimate government if people can just do whatever they want.

The constitution may allow for changes, but a 2/3 vote is required for an amendment (i think. don't correct me if I'm wrong because I don't care.) Now, as you and I both know, most people are idiots, and so there's no way to get MOST people to agree on a necessary change.

Thats the point. Unless everyone can agree on it we shouldn't be changing it. The problem with a true democracy is that the minority can lose their rights to the majority. Which is why everyone needs to be protected.

everyone can be protected if idiots aren't in charge. It is possible to care about people other than yourself, though good luck finding a politician who's like that. The problem is that empaths don't go into politics because it's a stinking den of corruption, and greedy self-loving bastards do because they love to boss people around and argue till they're blue in the face and never change their views.

And since when does democracy protect the minority? Can I walk down the street smoking pot without being thrown in jail? No, didn't think so. I'm a minority in that sense, why aren't my rights being protected?

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Originally posted by juroara
youre right. I dont know why people are so insistant on bad mouthing the president. perhaps they have forgetten that we have two Houses who are really in charge and president is just a little posse ................................

I'll be patriotic when this country is democratic. congress is passing too many horrible bills or not passing good ones even if 80% of the nation supports it....and good luck finding a good congressman to vote for. I've only found one and hes not even in my state

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America's political establishment was designed from the beginning to be corrupt. First it had been designed so Northern Businessmen and Southern Gentlemen could use the Political Forums to consolidate their Power, and now, since the Supreme Court has made Bribery a Legal Form of Expression, the People will never be heard of again. The Lobbies now own American Politics and will never ever give it back.

If American's had any sense they would amend their Constitution to require Competitive Civil Service Testing for all Elected Officials. Democracy is meaningless while only two parties, never specified by any Constitution, have a monopoly on the Power to Nominate. Competitive Testing would open up the Nomination Process to Everybody. It would be True Democracy, and it would guarantee that never again would the President of the United States be in the 23 Percentile. Indeed, there are actual Disabled Retards who have had better acedemic records then George Bush. it is truly amazing. The only people we can find who are more stupid than George Bush are those who voted for him.

I suppose you can ask "whom do the smart people vote for". Well, they don't vote at all. In Americ to register to vote is the very same as registering for Jury Duty -- that last form of Slavery still allowed in the Free World. Of course, nobody with an IQ over a hundred points would even consider registering to Vote.

Leo, you seem to have overlooked the earlier note that JURY LISTS ARE TAKEN FROM DRIVER'S LICENSES, NOT REGISTERED VOTERS. Now I suppose you'll have to say that America should stop driving cars because we should all do our best to avoid the chance of being called to serve on a jury, which chances are you'll have happen only once every few years anyway.

Now, my worst president ever would also be Jackson. As somebody noted earlier, the man committed GENOCIDE. Constitution aside, that's downright EVIL. And while Lincoln did abuse the Constitution, at least he managed to move the nation one step closer to equality. Also, I think it's important to note that at least Lincoln wasn't under the unfortunate delusion that God was giving him orders directly, as opposed to our current idiot in power.

Mostly, right now, I think it's time the people of the United States overthrow the party system entirely. Some semblence of it will likely remain, but it's important that we get rid of the two party system, come what may. It's amazing how little power is a normal citizen has if he doesn't swear allegiance to either the Republicans or Democrats. I'm a registered Independant. In the local elections lately, since they were only primaries, I only got to vote on two issues: A member of the school board and a measure to allow additional school funding. Republicans got to vote on eight issues. Democrats got to vote on two, the same as me. Because the Democrats, a very small minority here, couldn't field a candidate for most of the offices, the only opposition the Republicans had was internal. Six officials are now guarunteed a spot in office, and I, along with all non-Republicans in my area, got absolutely NO say in it, just because we wouldn't register as Republicans. That's completely unfair.

I believe that's called dictatorship of the majority. That included with Jerry Mandering has lead many to realize that the average republican's vote is worth more than the average democrat's, the average democrat's is worth more than the average green or independent. That iself is flawed, but you could point out a billion flaws.

I think the biggest thing wrong with the consitution is the system of checks and balances which is a fraudulant, fake system, and is really a bunch of theatrics hiding what is actually an oligarchy. The people get to choose from elitists, who were placed in the chosen spot by elitists, and then while the people themselves elect four elitists for federal government, with the rest of the oublicly elected elitists they choose by themselves which elitists get to fill the rest of the positions in power.

The funny thing is there were founding fathers like Alexander Hamilton who thought only the upper class had the intelligence to be able to make decisions. Then there were others like say, Thomas Paine, who told Hamilton to shove it up his ass. In the end it was elitists who fooled the rioting population (Of mostly farmers, mind you Leo) into thinking they were the good elitists, and there you have the founding of our country, and since then the gap between between the rich and the poor has fluxuated, but it's at record heights these days.

Nice way to avoid all the real questions leo. Again you totally ignored that a lot of states get people for the jury duty list from drivers licences and that you can get out of jury duty at any time if its going to cause financial hardship. Then you act like no one would ever want to be on jury duty even though there a tons of people who are more than willing to give up time to be on one. Money isn't the only thing in life, we don't all need high salaries to cover our time when we do stuff for the community.

I am not fooled though, I know the reason you dislike jury duty. Its because you dislike juries. Weren't you the one who said the state should have total control over the court system? Infact your for large government in general. I remeber your "the goverment should have a monoploy on force" speech. The fact is you want to be a willing slave for the government, that or you work for the government and are trying to talk us into it. People can see right though that line of thinking though. Only morons vote and go to jury duty? Come on. Seriously, you think anyone is going to fall for that line of bull.

As for the two party system, it was never in the plan when building the country. People even warned that a two party system would be very dangerous. Of course people being morons, a few years later they went ahead and got a two party system. The problem we have today is that a lot of people either refuse to vote or dont like "wasting" their vote on a third party. There really isn't a reason there couldn't be a 3rd or even 4th major party. Most people are not very happy with the two we got. Hopefully its just a matter of time before people figure it out.

As for the checks and balances, they should have worked if people actually followed them, and if we had good people in office. The problem is people don't follow them and we have bad people in office, and they all worked togather to abuse the people. They were meant to stop one branch from gaining power but no one thought they would all work togather to gain power.

Also, the US isn't a democracy its a republic. And yes there is a difference. What you discribe as republicans having more of a say than democrats who have more of a say than independants is a democracy. The majority rules. Under a true democracy right now the republicans with 51% of the vote could change the contitution to say that democrats are illegal and then arrest them. Which is why we are not a democracy and why we don't want one. The system is all messed up right now though because people don't follow our rules. Their like leo who say "well the constitution is stupid so I am just going to make up my own laws". Which is why it doesn't matter of you like the constitution or not, you should be demanding that people follow it anyway, and if they want to change it then they have to change it first.

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Originally posted by DoomedOne
I believe that's called dictatorship of the majority.

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Thats exactly what a democracy is, a dictatorship of the majority. Which is why we are "supposed" to be a republic.

For all the complaining of a two party system and how corrupt it is, blah blah blah, etc. Just think about how corrupt parliamentary systems are. In Europe, many countries have dozens of parties trying to gain power, and in the end, it basically amounts to two parties trying to gather a majority by promising a say in government to the asaid sympathetic parties. They are basically forced into this, otherwise, nothing would get done. I'm not in anyway saying this is worse than a two party system, I'm just pointing it out.

In this thread, there was a lot of say of voting being for fools and idiots and such. That no one with an IQ of over a hundred would vote. Now, although our votes don't matter in the end, most often the electoral vote will lean towards the voting of the people (Florida being a disgraceful exception...but, anyway).

So doesn't it help that intelligent people are at least voting? Why leave this "suggestion" of a vote to the uneducated? Soon we have collective reasoning, ie, "well, it's not like my one vote is going to matter...".

All I'm saying is that it doesn't hurt to try. You're not proving any point by not voting. Nobody cares if you don't vote.

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Originally posted by Tsen
Leo, you seem to have overlooked the earlier note that JURY LISTS ARE TAKEN FROM DRIVER'S LICENSES, NOT REGISTERED VOTERS. Now I suppose you'll have to say that America should stop driving cars because we should all do our best to avoid the chance of being called to serve on a jury, which chances are you'll have happen only once every few years anyway.

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I don’t post here that often, but enough to wonder if is this is what constitutes the primary contents of Leo Volont's posts - namely, pseudo-intellectualism. Mr. Volont spouted some outright lies in the Philosophy forum a couple of weeks ago, which I called him on and he never replied to. Generally when someone questions the factual merit of something you write it is common courtesy to either: a) Give support to your initial statement with examples or B) admit your error and move on. Mr. Volont, you do neither! You have good grammar and a unique style of writing so it saddens me to see you playing the role of an armed Socratic Wiseman (who shoots first and doesn’t even bother asking questions later).

Yea he does that a lot. I think he does actually know a lot about religion but it seems like hes trying to fake the same level of knowledge on other subjects, and it really shows when he posts stuff that isn't true and then avoids replying when someone calls him on it.

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America needs to be more patriotic.[/b]

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ahh! this was meant to be snarky right? Satire, blunt irony or a similar witticism right? please tell me it was so I can sleep at night...


do most young american's think america needs to be more patriotic? Is this a widely held belief for the next generation? tell me its not true...or should we all expect even more arrogant tourists?

patriotism is basically a euphemism for American Nationalism.

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Originally Posted by Dangeruss

patriotism is basically a euphemism for American Nationalism.
[/b]

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Bingo.
Or as Bush so "eloquently" put it:

"Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists."

:roll:

So is the next generation jumping on this nationalist bandwagon? becoming even more patiotic? jesus fucking christ I hope not...


im starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston stranded on primate planet, this ones got god-fearing imbred nationalists..

I LOVE that song. So true, too.

"Theres no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated,
Political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred.
Majority rule don't work in mental institutions--
Sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions"

Tsen, I think you could simplify that: qualitatively, most people are idiots. therefore, majority rule is rule by those least qualified.

I wouldn't worry too much. The regime that Bush is pushing is very well thought-out and was, at a time, very successful. It may have taken the American people a long time to come to, but I think the fact the Bush has the lowest approval rating EVAR is pretty significant. In an earlier time, his manipulation of public knowledge would be complete enough for his regime to inherent the presidency, but the internet really bailed us out this time. Just go on Youtube and search for 'police brutality.' You couldn't get that kind of evidence against a police state just 10 years ago. I think the most important thing in the world right now is to get everyone connected and to drastically decentralize everyone's news source. The internet is the first manifestation of neitze(sp?)'s ubermench theory. A radical increase in subjectivity (the power of users to submit their own information and have it be read by others) leads to a vast objectivity (the collective wisdom that comes from having highly varied sources of information). If enough people tune in and turn on(to the internet), then another massive blunder like this one will be less likely.

The internet is uncorruptible in my mind because those with the most intimate knowledge of its workings are pirates. Pirates (old-timey ones) were the first practitioners of democracy, and modern pirates have already accomplished very much in terms of the freedom of information. I read something the other day about how the founders of The Pirates Bay have found a way to hide themselves perfectly, separating their net identities and their real identities to such an extent that the RIAA can't prosecute them, no matter how many lawyers, hackers, and ninjas they hire. The internet has empowered these individuals, and will one day make gods of them. When the internet becomes integrated into government (i think it will sooner or later), pirates will know if governments try to rig elections or manipulate the truth. And, assuming that freedom of information is obtained, everyone will know as soon as the first person knows, and the government will immediately be in deep shit, rather than having the convenience of beaurocratic deadlock and government opacity to protect them as they do now.

Technically dangeruss, many native american tribes were practitioning democracy first. In fact, though the history books bullshit it otherwise (as they do all the fucking time) the United States got most of their ideas of how to run government from the Indians... then they killed them and wrote it out that some random mother fucker came up with it all on his own. Bastards.

Though I agree, but the very fact that the mainstream media criticizes blogging to death is proff enough it's got some good quality about it. A good example is Stephen Colbert doing the white house press corps dinner thing, and every news media outlet owned by on the big five ignored it, but the bloggers went crazy over it saying it was the most hysterical thing they ever heard. Sooooo... the main stream media finally acknowledge it as... "not funny." We need it, that's the truth, we need bloggers. We need media that escapes the pressure of the big five compan ies that own all the other media (ten world wide.)

wow the press really tried to ignore a story as big as colbert roasting bush? I hardly ever watch the news on tv anymore because there's too much garbage about the rising crime rate and squirrels on waterskis for my liking. The lack of reporting on the war was what bothered me first, then after I made the switch to internet news I realized that there was a lot they weren't telling me. They fill their hour segments with so much garbage that they never make it to the real issues, and they miss out on historical events like Colbert at the white house.

I was once considering being an activist, but I think the biggest favor I could do for our country is to turn people on to web news. I bet 100 years from now history books will be saying something along the lines of "the internet saved our asses big time." Just how quickly that happens remains to be seen, but I do have the power to speed it up and I will do so.

tangent: speaking of web news, I just read that Tony Blair is finally catching some machiavellian wisdom and publicly denouncing Bush over the Lebanon conflict. I think this is a sign that the present state of affairs is degenerating fairly quickly. Blair is already too far gone to save his popularity, which leads me to believe that he's instead trying to speed up the fall of the Bush regime. With Blair gone, Bush officially has no friends outside of America apart from Isreal, which has perhaps even fewer friends. The atrocities are in the open now, and it will be interesting to see how people react from here. I'm personally hoping for a huge regime change in america, but we all know that won't happen. oh well, at least it will probably be a small step in the right direction.

Colbert isn't news. Thats almost as bad as the random court cases they throw up on the news that have nothing to do with anything. Seriously they have some new court case every month or so and they spend weeks at a time on it. Something that happens to thousands of people every year but because someone is famous or something its the number one thing being on.

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Originally Posted by DoomedOne

Technically dangeruss, many native american tribes were practitioning democracy first. In fact, though the history books bullshit it otherwise (as they do all the fucking time) the United States got most of their ideas of how to run government from the Indians... then they killed them and wrote it out that some random mother fucker came up with it all on his own. Bastards.
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Oh, and here I thought the principles for founding the United States were influenced on Athenian principles of democracy and classical thinking. Oh well. :roll:

But seriously, even if the Native Americans had any influence, I doubt it was taken seriously.