Middle Eastern Conflict

I am pretty surprised no one has started a topic on this before, so I am starting one on the current Middle East affairs, and the escalation between Israel and neighboring countries. I would like to hear your views on the conflict. [size=1]I know I am going to offend some people with my view, and many, probably most will disagree with me, so I apologize in advance.

[deleted by me as it is embarrassing and portrays me in a way that I am not really]
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Sorry about the what I wrote to anyone who had to read it. It was inacurate and innapropriate, and the result of anger, not logic, which is why deleted it.

I know your mad but israel is the clear aggressor in this case. I want to clear one thing up. Israel invaded Lebanon, and Lebanon killed the troops and captured the second two soilders on lebanons soil. They are clearly in their right to defend themselves when israelis drove tanks into their countries.

Israel has already since invaded the gaza strip and lebanon, which is clearly an offensive action. They are also threatening syria and iran. If they keep it up they are going to start a huge war against all 4 of them, which seems to be their goal.

You need to really calm down though because your not thinking straight. Ask yourself this, is invading two countries over the kidnapping of one person a normal response? It sounds like they will be adding and 3rd and a 4th to it soon. It really is just an excuse to go to war, you don't attack multiple countries over a single person being kidnapped.

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Originally posted by Alric
I know your mad but israel is the clear aggressor in this case. I want to clear one thing up. Israel invaded Lebanon, and Lebanon killed the troops and captured the second two soilders on lebanons soil. They are clearly in their right to defend themselves when israelis drove tanks into their countries.

Israel has already since invaded the gaza strip and lebanon, which is clearly an offensive action. They are also threatening syria and iran. If they keep it up they are going to start a huge war against all 4 of them, which seems to be their goal.

You need to really calm down though because your not thinking straight. Ask yourself this, is invading two countries over the kidnapping of one person a normal response? It sounds like they will be adding and 3rd and a 4th to it soon. It really is just an excuse to go to war, you don't attack multiple countries over a single person being kidnapped.

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I am sorry, I haven't read the news in detail, as I wasn't here when the Lebanon thing unfolded, and when I read about this, and heard it from my mom, I was really pissed off. Thanks for clearing it up a bit. Now that I have cooled down a bit, I am going to remove my long and viscious opinion from here, and stay out of this discussion, as I can't discuss this without getting emotional, and therefore do not think straight, causing me to write flaming articles that are way too strongly worded, and not totally accurate.

All I will say is that while Israel is the current agressor, I believe what started this specific, and quite messy conflict, is government supported Hamas rocket fire even before the end of the ceasefire. Things escalated from there, and what we see now is the effect of that.

The blame game doesn't help anything. As long as there is a cycle of revenege countries in that area will never be at peace.

Yeah, I'm not too terribly well informed, but I've read enough to know that this is really shitty. I dont think the Israeli backlash is going to help. Just because they won a couple of fast wars decades ago doesn't mean they can just go and bomb the shit outta people and hope for the best.

Bad stuff.

While I sympathise with the Palestinians and Lebanese in this latest conflict I'd say that the whole thing saddens me incredibly. Seeing Israel make such agressive strikes is just disenheartening. Yes, the holocoust card gets played for all the wrong reasons in the middle-east debate, and might not be relevant anymore - I don't know. But to think about it, and then to see Beruit airport in flames from an Israeli jet strike, to see pictures of Israeli tanks firing with whole crates of tank shells on the ground next to them... I don't know it just seems so saddening.

It will be interesting to see how far America will support Israel on this because even Bush has to see that continued support for Israel does not do the US any favours at all in the eyes of Islamic countries, for good or bad.

The American Press is so biased. For instance, Bob Simon, a Jew, with CBS News, while pretending to be wisely impartial, lamented that the cycle of retaliations would go on and on. But as he explained, he started by saying that the Palestinians had started it by kidnapping that one soldier during a tactical raid.

Excuse us all, but the Palestinians launched this operation in retaliation for the Israelis dropping a 155 mm howetzer shell on a little Palestinian Family that had spread out on the beach with a beach umbrella and some lawn chairs and some towels. BOOM! All dead. And Israel had begun by apologizing and then took it back. Admitting responsiblity might have consequences, and so they insisted that the 155 mm howetzer artillery shell must have simply dropped from the sky.

America and their FREE Press. its free for Private Lobbies to buy up a monopoly in Media Coverage and whatever lies they can fabricate. At least with a Public Press, there could be some Accountability, but with a Private Monopoly, the Public is left to be informed by the highest bidders.

Hmmmmmm. Who has more money to influence Publis Opinion? Jews. or Palestinians?

people need to come to understand that a Capitalist Monopoly can be just as Dictatorial and Tyrannical as any Communist Totalitarianism.

How can Palestinians be anything else but the Enemies of America when it is the Jews that control everything that America sees or hears?

I totally disagree with you Leo. While sometimes there is the Biased towards Israel opinion, most news I see and here are biased towards Palestinians. Like in the Boston Globe, you'll see an article, and it says directly, "Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian gunman," but all it says for the Israeli soldier is, "An IDF soldier was killed in a gunfight with Palestinian militants." Also, Israel may have more money to influence with than Palestine, but the rest of the arab countries, who happen to control the worlds oil, have much more money to influence with than Israel, and they do it too.

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How can Palestinians be anything else but the Enemies of America when it is the Jews that control everything that America sees or hears?[/b]

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:shock: Uhm...

You know, I'm not sure the old 'Jewish Conspiracy' card works anymore.

It actually started off pretty balanced but has been moving towards israels side more and more. Probably to gear us up to get the US into it some how. We have been wanting to invade iran after all. Its obvious who started this war though, anyone who says palestine started it is really bias.

Israel has some 10,000 captured palestinians and palestine captured 1, just 1 israeli. What they asked for was for israel to release all the woman and children they have, and don't ask me why they have woman and children but its admitted. So in response they invaded the gaza strip and took out all their power and water. Then someone shot a rocket into israel so in response they invaded lebanon. Lebanon captured two soilders while they were on lebanons soil so in response israel bombed the international airport and all their major roads.

Its just so obvious. You don't even have to know what happened. Israel against lebanon is like the US vs mexico. They are shooting random rocket across the border and israel is flying around in gunships and has tanks driving through their towns blowing everything up. Its totally a one sided battle and israel is picking on them.

Actually, having women prisoners is perfectly logical. Anyone who says a woman can't be a terrorist too is being sexist. The children part is a bit odd though. As for news bias, it really depends on what station you go on. Fox for example is very pro-bush, and is therefore pro-Israel, but other stations are very un-biased, and yet others are anti-Israel, it really depends on who you listen to. Also, Israel is using military attacks, while Hamas and Hesbalah use terrorism against civilians. The only reason the conflict is comparable to if US and Mexico fought is that the Government isn't the one controlling the attacks from Palestine and Lebanon, it is terrorists, and these are the smaller countries. Iran helped attack an Israeli military ship, and Iran vs. Israel is a lot less like America vs. Mexico than America vs. Russia. And all the money and weapons are coming from Iran and Syria to the terrorists, so while Israel may be attacking smaller countries, the people they are trying to stop are countries that are bigger than they are. What else is Israel supposed to do? If mexican terrorists were firing missiles into America, America would have no choice but to respond the same way as Israel, as terrorists are not real soldiers. They are organized civilians living with their families. There are no military bases to attack, just a few terrorists living next to many innocent civilians who did nothing wrong. Because of this, you can't destroy the terrorists' inferstructure that gives them the ability to fight, like the ports where Iran gives them weapons, without destroying the facilities regular civilians use, as these facilities are one and the same. If this was a regular army vs. army war, then Israel would be totally wrong in their actions, but here the perpetrators aren't armies, but civilians, and therefore they must destroy the inferstructure used by civilians.

They both do this stuff all the time, nothing has really changed except israel decided its time to totally smash in lebanon untill they can no longer funcation as a country. All lebanon can do to defend itself is shoot off rockets, they are totally out matched here.

They are totally helpless, their country has been invaded and they can't even defend themself because when they do Israel steps up its offence 1000%. Theres not going to be anything left but a big hole in the ground when they get done. Lebanon is like begging them to stop and they are just ripping the country apart.

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Originally posted by PenguinLord13
I totally disagree with you Leo. While sometimes there is the Biased towards Israel opinion, most news I see and here are biased towards Palestinians. Like in the Boston Globe, you'll see an article, and it says directly, "Israeli forces shot and killed a Palestinian gunman," but all it says for the Israeli soldier is, "An IDF soldier was killed in a gunfight with Palestinian militants." Also, Israel may have more money to influence with than Palestine, but the rest of the arab countries, who happen to control the worlds oil, have much more money to influence with than Israel, and they do it too.

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Yes, Arabs have a great deal of Oil Money. But if one bigs around, one finds that the Arab Intelligensia is quite angry with all of the old Benduin Chieftans who spend ALL of their Oil Dollars on new wives and fancy toys. Yes, if they put half the attention and a quarter of their available funds toward bribing America's Corrupt Politians that the Zionists and the Gun Lobbyists do, then we would have World Peace tommorrow, because without America's guaranteed unconditional support, Israel would have to deal for Peace. If America were to desist in pumping over 5 billion dollars a year to support Israel's War Machine, and had to actually pay for its own Arms, and pay to feed its soldiers out of its own tax budgets, and to purchase international oil with its own funding... that is, if Israel was put on the same level as all of its Enemies, they would have to come to terms.

It is America's greatest Blind Spot. America takes sides. And everywhere America takes sides, it precludes the possiblitiy of Peace. The greatest example here is with the first World War, where America supported Britains drive to conquer the World against Continental Europe's impulse to share in the formation of a World Civilization. Without America's interference, there might have been a Unifying Treaty that would have precluded World War II. Without America's interference, England and France might have left the Ottoman Empire alone, and today we would have had a blessedly stable Middle East.

America: Land of the Stupid.

Then there was the Yalta Conference. America agrees to divide the nations of Korea and Vietnam. Why? But then they fight two horrible wars to keep these nations divided. Why? Make a blundering mistake in the first place, and then support that blundering mistake with further mistakes.

America: Land of the Stupid.

Historically stupid.

Then there is the Unconditional Surrender Policy.

America can never make Peace because it refuses to talk to anybody. What is their State Department's Perpetual Policy in regards to any International Tension? Here it is: "We will not negotiate until you first surrender to everyone of our demands in the first place". Huh? America wants to its opponents to grovel and give up every interest, before America will even begin to talk. But when these Nations or Organizations so thoroughly surrender, then what incentive does America have to Talk. Its Over. America smiles and congratulates itself on having faced down its enemies and walks away. What are the enemies to do but to say to themselves "Never again trust America". this not the way to lasting Peace.

America: Land of the Stupid.

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Originally posted by FunkyMonk

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How can Palestinians be anything else but the Enemies of America when it is the Jews that control everything that America sees or hears?

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:shock: Uhm...

You know, I'm not sure the old 'Jewish Conspiracy' card works anymore.[/b]

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Well, look at the Jewish Campaings in Public Relations.

It is horribly Incorrect, Politically, to ever criticize anything Jewish.

It is conditioning.

Any other Ethnic Group entertaining anything like the Zionist Agenda would be considered... well, like Nazis... like KKK White Supremacists.

But it is Jews who want to dominate the World and commit Genocide SO THAT MAKES IT OKAY.

Simply look at CNN's promotional trailers. They advertise an anti-Islamic bias (with what'shername repeating over and over again everyday what a tyrant Saddam Hussein is and how glad she is personally that he has been overthrown). Yet Israel subjects and tyrannizes over people in a far worse fashion than Hussein ever did. Indeed, before the U.S. began its Campaigns of Sanctions and Hostilities against Iraq, Iraq was one of the most thriving and prosperous of the Developing Nations. He was a Secularist who was upholding a system of Bureaucratic Fairness between all of the Ethnic Groups and Religious Sects in Iraq.... Heck! His Foreign Mininster was a Coptic Christian! Yes, there was some level of Security. The Bosque Party had only been in power some 30 or 40 years, and many Sectarians thought they could profit greatly if they could ever overthrow Secular Government... with America Support. But NOW America is killing and imprisoning 10 times the people that Hussein ever bothered. And under Husein, Iraq was peaceful and prosperous. America has destroyed and disrupted everything and made every condition worse than it was, and is fixing nothing.

But to CNN Saddam Hussein is the Bad Guy.

How could this possibly be unless there is a decided and directed bias. And who would this Anti-Arab bias benefit.

Follow the Money.

Not only does the American Government supply Israel with 5 Billion dollars a year, but the Allied Jewish Appeal and other Lobbiest Organizations extract money from the affluent American Jews. Not only are American Politicians bribed with this money, but a great deal of these Dollars can be used to purchase Equity Shares in America Media Organizations. Hell! Its an Investment. And once they have controlling interest in these media company's, what kind of Stories do you think will run.

But, yes, I agree with your point, that it has become very unfashionable to blame the Jews on everything that they have been doing to conquer the World and destroy World Peace. I would indeed have many more friends if only I would fall in with everyone else and become a good 'Nazi'... oooops, I mean Zionist.

Whats stupid is when we get bribed with our own money we gave to them. The american people need to wake up and noticed its just another way for politicians to steal money from the american people.

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Originally posted by Alric
They both do this stuff all the time, nothing has really changed except israel decided its time to totally smash in lebanon untill they can no longer funcation as a country. All lebanon can do to defend itself is shoot off rockets, they are totally out matched here.

They are totally helpless, their country has been invaded and they can't even defend themself because when they do Israel steps up its offence 1000%. Theres not going to be anything left but a big hole in the ground when they get done. Lebanon is like begging them to stop and they are just ripping the country apart.

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Okay... this is what MIGHT happen:

Israel become much more unpopular across the Arab World. .. Especially in Pakistan, a Nuclear Power. As it is many in Pakistan's Military Establishment think it disgraceful that Pakistan is upholding Pro-American Pro-Zionist Policies. The people of Pakistan are inches away from Rebellion, and this was BEFORE the present escalulations.

Where is this heading?

it is extremely possible that Israel will be Nuked.

And even if Israel retaliates against the entire Arab World, nuking everybody themselves. Who will win in the end? The Beduins will ride out of the Desert and kill every Jew they can find... with Stone Age Weapons, but dead is dead whether one is killed by Gunship Hellicopters and Tanks or by swords and arrows.

But even if it does not go nuclear. Israel is making yet another generation of inveterate enemies.

What happens every time you destroy an economy and push the unemployment level up above 50%. One creates a broad class of Terrorists -- of Militiamen.

Think about what Men are and what men do. If a Man does not have a job to go to every day, then what does he do with himself? If his wife works, then he can drink, gamble and smoke cigerettes on her income. But in a Patriarchal Society where women don't traditionally do much of the work, then the man must get a stipend from somewhere. They join Militia Groups or Terrorist Organizations. WHAT CHOICE DO THEY HAVE?

So it is that American Policy and Zionist Policies are self-defeating. With every attack and sanction they only expand the pool from which their Enemies recruit.

In the last 40 years the America Government and the International Community has funnelled over 300 Billion Dollars into Israel's campaigns of aggression and genocide. Now, does anybody think that if just a fraction of that money would paid toward compensation of Palestinian losses the whole issue couild have been resolved?

On the surface it seems cheaper to Steal then it does to Pay. But Righteous Resentment needs to be factored into the Account.

Again, if America would cut off Israel and begin to pay the Palestinians, and now the Lebanese, 5 Billion Dollars a year, we would soon have Peace.

Besides, what do they need Israel for anyway. Couldn't they move to the Real Promised Land.... Florida.

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Originally posted by PenguinLord13
Actually, having women prisoners is perfectly logical. Anyone who says a woman can't be a terrorist too is being sexist. .

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Well, people should not adopt self-defeating policies. One should do a Cost-Benefit Analysis on some of these policies. Okay, how much harm can some girls do? Now against this possible harm, factor in the damage done by the Resentment provoked by disregarding every chivalrous impulse and modicum of respect for Women.

yes, it may seem paradoxical, but Arabs and Muslims DO have a version of respect for Women... not as being interchangeable with Men, but a respect for Women as Women -- as revered Mothers, respected Wives, and cherished Daughters. Now, let America and Israel be plastered all over the Arab Media for raping and abusing these same women?

One does not want to Win the Battle only to lose the War.

One needs to continue to think even when one is at War. Especially when one is at War.

War is too important to be left to the Generals. The Bone Heads.

If someone nukes israel its all over. They are almost guaranteed to send a nuke back and probably at every country in the area too. You can argue about peoples bias all you want but theres no good way to spin a nuke.

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Originally posted by Alric
If someone nukes israel its all over. They are almost guaranteed to send a nuke back and probably at every country in the area too. You can argue about peoples bias all you want but theres no good way to spin a nuke.

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Yeah, but it is very unlikely in the near future. Iran won't have nukes for 10 years even at their current pace, so the only risk is North Korea, and what do they have to gain in giving a nuke to terrorists? Maybe a nuke back from Israel? America is huge, so even if they got nuked, most of the country would be unharmed, so if terrorists nuked them with a North Korean nuke they couldn't nuke the North Koreans back, as they can't prove 100% where the nuke came from, so the most they could do is invade North Korea like Iraq to keep them from doing more damage. On the other hand, a nuke at Israel would basically destroy Israel as a country because of its small size. At this point Israel wouldn't give a damn if they didn't have enough evidence to totally prove the North Koreans gave the terrorists the nuke, as they would have nothing to lose, and would just nuke them right back, along with Iran probably, just in case it was Iran who gave the terrorists the nuke.

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It is horribly Incorrect, Politically, to ever criticize anything Jewish. [/b]

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Which is true. But something being 'politically incorrect' doesn't mean there's a conspiracy. It's very politically incorrect to argue against Gay rights, but that doesn't mean there's a gay conspiracy. A culture bias doesn't equal a conspiracy.

But yeah, you probably would have more friends if you didn't sound like a flaming anti-semite.

If the world withdrew support from Israel, they probably would be a little less belligerent. But they probably also wouldn't exist in ten years.

I'm not a real big fan of Israel's policy at the moment. They get terrorist attacked and flip out. Kinda sucks. But hey, nobody's going to stop them because people only worry about countries they perceive as threats to themselves.

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Originally posted by Leo Volont
The American Press is so biased. For instance, Bob Simon, a Jew, with CBS News, while pretending to be wisely impartial, lamented that the cycle of retaliations would go on and on. But as he explained, he started by saying that the Palestinians had started it by kidnapping that one soldier during a tactical raid.

Excuse us all, but the Palestinians launched this operation in retaliation for the Israelis dropping a 155 mm howetzer shell on a little Palestinian Family that had spread out on the beach with a beach umbrella and some lawn chairs and some towels. BOOM! All dead. And Israel had begun by apologizing and then took it back. Admitting responsiblity might have consequences, and so they insisted that the 155 mm howetzer artillery shell must have simply dropped from the sky.

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Leo is SO right on. The press is disgustingly biased. I watched CNN as they covered the story and was disgusted because all they do is interview israelis and jews...it's so one sided. They tell sad stories about an Israeli mother and daughter that just died in the hospital...but what the hell??? What about the hundreds of Lebanese that are dead? Are you kidding me? What about the 10,000 Palestinian prisoners that are STILL being held captive by the Israelis??? You don't hear about THEM.

And you realize that Israel is targeting CIVILIANS!?? It's not trying to bomb Hezbollah....it's destroying Beruit...the most beautiful damn city over there. Israel is hoping to piss off the citizens of Lebanon and turn them against Hezbollah, but they're so stupid their plan is only backfiring haha.

I think Hezbollah are heros...they are the ONLY ONES with some fucking balls who are willing to stand up and say...hey wait a minute...we aren't going to take this shit!! The arab countries get the shit beat out of them by Israel all the time...every few years....the big bully has to pick on the weak countries. And Hezbollah is standing up to the big bully.

I just love how they are also trying to get Iran involved in all of this. Nothing would make Israel more happy than to give the US an excuse to INVADE IRAN. And you know what??? Part of me hopes that we do invade IRAN. You know why? Because if the Shiites in Iran fight back...holy shit...it's the end of the US. Seriously...I mean, those guys believe they are going to heaven no matter what. Just wait...

And why the hell is Israel allowed to have 400 nuclear warheads but none of the arab countries can have any???? Why is Israel so special? Um...yeah. Oh and now Israel is trying to say that Palestinian family that got bombed the hell out of? Stepped on a land mine. HAHA. WoW. The lies are sickening.

While I will admit the press is often biased they also sometimes give misleading information, against Israel. For example I was watching Fox news, and they were talking about the devastation in Lebanon, but at the same time were showing pictures of devastation in the backround in Rosh Pina and Tiberias, both of which are in Israel, without mentioning the background pictures were of Israel, so unless you know your Israeli geography and read the captions in the pictures carefully you assume they are showing Lebanese wreckage, but the wreckage shown is in Israel. While there may be more wreckage in Lebanon than Israel, this specific scene was totally misleading, as people thought they were seeing Lebanese devastation, and are sorry for the Lebanese, but they are really seeing Israeli devastation, which had they known would have helped them understand what all these rockets are doing to Israel.

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And why the hell is Israel allowed to have 400 nuclear warheads but none of the arab countries can have any???? Why is Israel so special?[/b]

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Because they're not considered a potential threat to the US / UN security council type countries. So they can get away with having stuff like that.

Leo is right about the bias. But again, bias doesn't equal conspiracy.

PenguinLord13


Finally, Someone who speaks my language :wink:

The civilians are in between both parties. And since hamas and hizbollah do not allow any Palestinian or Lebanese people to be sympathetic with Israël they can only choose their side in order not to get killed by them. Palestinian peacefull ''Friends of Israël'' are often killed by Hamas and Hizbollah.
If a palestinian or Lebanese Kid, woman or man dies in this war it is ALWAYS a tragedy... Eventhough they are taught to hate us Jews from the day they are born into this Cruel world:
A human Death is only worth a Big Celebration if the person is someone actively involved in killing Israëli's across the border.
Hell yeah I'll celebrate and cheer when I learn that Sheihk Nasrallah ( Hizbollah's founder ) is Dead! Off course. I guess I am a little more of a Humanist than you are penguinLord, But I defenitely feel your frustration as it is my frustration too.

I have lots of Family in Israël myself. I guess people have such little imagination into the feelings and motives of others that you'd really have to be Jewish and/or half Israëli yourself to feel the Jewish Suffering. (I am Jewish and Half-Dutch/Half Israëli)

Israël attacking Hezbollah in Southern Libanon is a very bold and brave action. The entire world is on our back but FUCK them. They won't take the time to hear us. The hypocritical ''World Community'' only brings cameras and microphones to suffering Lebanese and Palestinian people, but they hardly ever cover the Israëli side of this story. ( I know this side from my family and from what i have seen and hear myself

The day Israël attacked Hizbollah in Lebanon was the day that Israël said: ''Okay that's it. Israël is taking no more SHIT today''

Also Strange how the media makes it look like the death of 8 and abduction of 2 Israëli soldiers by Hizbollah was the only cause for this (therefor) ''extremely exagerated'' Israëli attack. However the Media (which's blood I can drink these days) never EVER covered the Countless Hizbollah Missile and Katchusha Civilian attacks that have been going LONG before the Media decided to mak a media circus out of the Israëli conflict here in the west. The continuous Katchusha and missile attacks on northern Israëli cities and towns THAT is the cause of Israël being bold, saying FUCK YOU HIZBOLLAH and striking across the border to eliminate Hizbollah: The Lebanese Government won't, wouldn't dare disarm Iran's long arm: That is what Hizbollah is.

So PenguinLord, don't even try to convince the anti-Israël sentiment carrying people here...or anywhere: They simply don't understand. And they don't want to. And Fuck if they don't. We don't need their support.
It will take Hell to freeze over for Israël to EVER surcome to UN-pressure or Islamic Radical religious terrorism: It won't happen. And if it appears to happen I'm joining the army there. I'd rather DIE defending what I believe in then sit and watch as it gets blown appart. But don't worry. Israël and it's people have been around for Millenia. And we're not quite ready to leave this world yet, no matter how many large masses march our direction while burning our flags.

They shall fall, if not to Israël itself, then to Lebanese uprising people, who will become increasingly more Sick of Hizbollah for turning their country into a battlefield.

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Originally Posted by Leo

it is extremely possible that Israel will be Nuked. [/b]

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The Nuke is the biggest Macho-weapon ever. In a small contained area such as the middle east Pakistan would do itself and neighboring allied arab nations just as much damage as Israël. the Nuke is a weapon to threaten eachother around with, but when war really starts it is with jets, tanks, missiles and ships.

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Originally Posted by Leo

Israel is making yet another generation of inveterate enemies.
What happens every time you destroy an economy and push the unemployment level up above 50%. One creates a broad class of Terrorists -- of Militiamen.
Think about what Men are and what men do. If a Man does not have a job to go to every day, then what does he do with himself? If his wife works, then he can drink, gamble and smoke cigerettes on her income. But in a Patriarchal Society where women don't traditionally do much of the work, then the man must get a stipend from somewhere. They join Militia Groups or Terrorist Organizations. WHAT CHOICE DO THEY HAVE? [/b]

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Well the TRUTH is that Israël has ALWAYS had these enemies. Religious Insanity, racism, hatred and intolerance is the cause and this sentiment has been around in the middle east at times of the persian Empire(Under rule of Persian Shah Haman). Now wether Israël beseiges gaza or Southern Lebanon or wether they withdraw: The hatred is everlasting and the Hizbollah ArtilleryFire WILL NOT STOP. Israël merely said to all terrorist factions bent on destroying Israëli civilian lives and houses: ''Okay that's it. Israël is taking non of your Bullshit anymore'' In time Lebanese and Palestinian civilians shall uprise agains the opressing dominant terrorist factions that hide amongst them in civil areas and so bring the war TO the people.

Let terrorists go ahead and they will simply continue spreading a ballistic rain over Israëli civilians.
This is something you cannot allow...Jesus I can't believe I'm actually telling people this...Shouldn't that be Crystal clear and obvious???
Let me say it very clearly: FUCK HIZBOLLAH. FUCK EM BIG TIME. and FUCK Iran's Ahmedinejad too.
Hizbollah after all is Iran's long arm.

And we shall cut it off so it can no longer terrorise and kill our people. Simple as that. No retaliation or vengeance o any of that Western Media Bullshit . Just doing that which is nececary for those radical RELIGIOUS FUCKS to stop bombing our goddamn people.

THERE nuff said. if anyone finds the above arguable...well go fuc... erm fishing. I have no words for you, terrorist sympathiser. It should be Crystal Clear that Israël is simply gunna Fuck Hizbollah way back in time and into the North untill it is incapable of Shooting Missiles at people, MY FAMILY being some of those people.

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Originally Posted by Leo

Again, if America would cut off Israel and begin to pay the Palestinians, and now the Lebanese, 5 Billion Dollars a year, we would soon have Peace.
Besides, what do they need Israel for anyway. Couldn't they move to the Real Promised Land.... Florida.
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Man what have you been smoking? You think that the Palestinians and the Lebanese haven't received tons of life Aid money for infrastructure, schools, hospitals, housing, business already.
Do you have any idea where that money ends up?
Well the Money MEANT for the ordinairy people of Palestine will be invested into weapons bought from Egypt via the Gaza strip. And the money meant for Lebanese people will go straight into Hizbollah's hands. Now HIZBOLLAH does indeed take good care of it's people. That is only PR off course, since they use most of the money to go shopping for guns and missiles in Iran which in time will land on unsuspecting, innocent Israëli civilians.

Supporting any of these 2 causes, even though I really DO feel for the poor palestinians and Lebanese (yeah I also am a Human being), will come down to supporting terrorism that will lead to lots of Israëli casualties.

No I'll be watching out to what ''charity organisation'' I'll donate my money.
I'd rather place my money on a projct fighting Poverty and Famine in some African nation where there's no terrorist factions or brute Dictators who will simply confiscate the money to sponsor their war or the building of their 5th palace.