Gays In Public Restrooms / Locker Rooms

Well it's a pretty self-explanatory question:

Do you think gays should share public restrooms with heterosexuals, (locker rooms especially, restrooms I have much less of a problem with), when opposite sexes must be segregated? I see this as a bit of a double standard so I'd like to see what you all think. Whatever you decide, explain why or why not.
If not, why is it that we must segregate those of the opposite sex?
This subject could lead into a bunch of other questions that I can't really articulate right now, so post your thoughts and questions for others if you have any.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Do you think gays should share public restrooms with heterosexuals, (locker rooms especially, restrooms I have much less of a problem with), when opposite sexes must be segregated? I see this as a bit of a double standard so I'd like to see what you all think. Whatever you decide, explain why or why not.
If not, why is it that we must segregate those of the opposite sex? [/b]

---

Good question. I personally don't think sexual orientation should determine which locker room or restroom someone uses. I mean, they are set up to segregate according to gender, not orientation, so it makes sense that a man should use the men's restroom even if he is sexually oriented toward other men.

I think the gender segregation for areas like that have to do with Victorian ideals, as well as keeping all of us dainty, defenseless women from the leering eyes of gentlemen who just can't control themselves in the presense of women. It's somewhat silly, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the separation itself, especialy since its still a big part of our culture to say that nudity, sexuality, and attraction are taboo.

If we tell people to keep their bodies to themselves, for whatever reasons, then we allow people to be nude or partially nude in the same vicinity with other people, it can be problematic. Not that it would be so if we didn't teach that nudity is taboo. See where the catch 22 is? It's weird because we say its weird.

^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreammask

Not that it would be so if we didn't teach that nudity is taboo. See where the catch 22 is? It's weird because we say its weird.
[/b]

---

Good answer, and I completely agree with that last part. I've often thought of how different the world would be if we weren't conditioned into thinking of wearing clothing as the norm - as if being without them is somehow obscene. I get you, 100%
I guess my mind just gets stuck on; since women are "spared" that vulnerability of being oogled at by some dude in a co-ed locker room, why is it that a straight guy can get the same, unwanted, attention by a gay man in a locker room and is not shown the same sort of consideration? It's all kinda trivial, fundamentally. I agree. It's just one of those things that makes me wonder.

If I could have it my way

Restrooms - coed, think about it, if everyone used stalls the only thing you would have to worry about is embarassing noises, which you shouldnt be too embarassed about. and it would make sport event a whole lot quicker for women. Sex or sexual preference means nothing.

Locker rooms - changing infrount of other people is hard for some people, changing infrount of people who could possibly be attracted to you is even harder. However it is all in our heads (imaging the thoughts in your head the first time you got naked with a boyfriend or girlfriend, you thought you were being judged on things they didnt even notice or cared about) Locker rooms should only be separated between women and men. Especially in schools.

I've spent time in France where there are no discriminations on some restrooms and showers. I feel the whole things has been blown totally out of proportion here. Yes, it was shocking to me to be sitting on the can and have a woman walk into the restroom. Yes it was a little strange to be washing my hands while some woman I didn't know was showering behind me.

Be it a carryover from our puritanical roots or what, I don't really know.

I am all for letting the whole sexual segregation thing go. I feel it is unnatural and unhealthy to supress and make people feel guilty because they might happen to see a private part.

This applies to gender as well as orientation in my book.

I for one would be completely disgusted to see some queer using the same bathroom as me. You know, I like checking out other guy's privates when we're all at the urinal, and personally, I like the satisfaction of knpwing the people whose penises I'm looking at feel completely awkward and psychologically molested, I don't want them to think it's normal to see a red blooded american staring at their cocks, I don't want to be caught off gaurd trying to draw some comparisons and find myself in some gay love triangle. Plus like... they like dudes, that's not right at all.

In fact if I had it my way I wouldn't let people who were prone to mixed couples use the same bathroom either. I mean, who knows where those penises have been? First they want to screw people of other races, next they'll do sheep. And I'm not talking the healthy way to do sheep like when you're isolated on a farm and one starts giving you the eye, I'm talking like... the way liberals do sheep.

Gays In Public Restrooms / Locker Rooms, Where do you stand?



On the other side of the room, logically.

There's nothing wrong with letting gay people into their respective bathrooms. There's nothing wrong with having men and women of any sexual orientation in the same bathroom. We still have seperate bathrooms because of legacy, there's no real 'reason' to seperate them anymore. It's just a sort of habit. That's really as simple as it is in my opinion.

I don't mind. I don't really mind unisex rest rooms either. I mean, you want to get in there, avoid all oily looking surfaces, do your business, and get out. I haven't got no stinking time to ogle some woman's breasts.

There are so many taboos that social programming ( at least in the US) has tried to impress upon people that I feel are wrong and disgustingly terrible. Sex and nudity are two of these taboos. Why is nudity wrong? Why is sex dirty and looked down upon? Why is it automatically assumed that nudity between the sexes always equals sex? I feel that coed bathrooms would actually help people to get out of this programming...So, that is exactly why we won't see this happen for many years...Society wants us to feel this way in order to keep us in line. Anyway, I don't see the problem with homosexuals using the same bathrooms as everyone else....I mean, they aren't going to pounce on the person next to them and try to automatically have sex with them. Gays have been using their respective bathrooms for years..Why is it such an issue now? Well, politics have a lot to do with it...But it hasn't really been that bad of a problem, so why should we be so cavalier to change it at this point?

Gays are more of a problem now because we need someone to blame and bitch about.

We've used almost everyone else up. We had the British, then witches, then women, then blacks, then Japanese in WWII, now homosexuals. We have a compelling need to hate on someone.


When I go into a public bathroom, I'm not looking around to see who's looking at me. People who do are in a situation when they meet someone else like them. That other person may be thinking the same thing, so both people think the other person who's looking at them is a fag.

This may not be the case, but I go in to take care of business, not put myself in an awkward position by looking for one.


If I've been checked out, then I don't know it. Ignorance is bliss.

Also: No one in their right mind is going to spend the extra money to make Male, Female, Gay, Lesbian restrooms/lockerrooms instead of just Male/Female. Besides, if they are trying to keep the sex out, what about bisexuals, or Gays/Lesbians in the same room? The gay/lesbian room would/might run amok, while bisexuals would have a circus in any of the rooms.
The way we have it works fine... as my opinion.

The idea for separate bathrooms/locker rooms is stupid... how could you even possibly enforce it? make everyone answer a questionnaire before coming into the bathroom.

My favorite is how students really dont know that their teacher is ever gay/lesbian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain

Gays are more of a problem now because we need someone to blame and bitch about.

We've used almost everyone else up. We had the British, then witches, then women, then blacks, then Japanese in WWII, now homosexuals. We have a compelling need to hate on someone.
[/b]

---

Seems obvious, doesn't it?

Lest we forget native americans, mexicans, and muslims? :?

I was shocked to see on 30 Days that a poll showed people trust atheists less than terrorists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skybluelucid

I was shocked to see on 30 Days that a poll showed people trust atheists less than terrorists.
[/b]

---

Hey, don't be shocked. Terrorists are pretty damn consistant in what they do. Blow shit up and kill people. I mean... there's something quite consistant and reliable about that...

Us atheists now, on the other hand... Oh, we don't believe in ANYTHING. We're frickin' unpredictable! FEAR US!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skybluelucid

I for one would be completely disgusted to see some queer using the same bathroom as me. You know, I like checking out other guy's privates when we're all at the urinal, and personally, I like the satisfaction of knpwing the people whose penises I'm looking at feel completely awkward and psychologically molested, I don't want them to think it's normal to see a red blooded american staring at their cocks, I don't want to be caught off gaurd trying to draw some comparisons and find myself in some gay love triangle. Plus like... they like dudes, that's not right at all.

In fact if I had it my way I wouldn't let people who were prone to mixed couples use the same bathroom either. I mean, who knows where those penises have been? First they want to screw people of other races, next they'll do sheep. And I'm not talking the healthy way to do sheep like when you're isolated on a farm and one starts giving you the eye, I'm talking like... the way liberals do sheep.
[/b]

---

Ummmm.... Okay, sorry, I'm kinda confused here... Are you sorta being satiric, funny, and not serious, or are you... *snicker* actually SERIOUS?

Personally, I haven't got any problem with gays in public restrooms. Although I'm totally straight, I find other males' homophobia quite amusing, and I play on it quite a bit. I get a huge kick out of acting gay and making other males uncomfortable, it's one of the funniest things ever.

But, if some gay guy hits on me, or oogles me in a public restroom.... so the fuck what? I mean, it's just the same as having a female hit on you or oogle you. Essentially, in BOTH scenarios you're having a complete stranger making sexual advances. I mean... I really don't see how the sex of the person makes it any more or less awkward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Well it's a pretty self-explanatory question:

Do you think gays should share public restrooms with heterosexuals, (locker rooms especially, restrooms I have much less of a problem with), when opposite sexes must be segregated? I see this as a bit of a double standard so I'd like to see what you all think. Whatever you decide, explain why or why not.
If not, why is it that we must segregate those of the opposite sex?
This subject could lead into a bunch of other questions that I can't really articulate right now, so post your thoughts and questions for others if you have any.
[/b]

---

Exactly what is there to be afraid of?

Modesty if for girls, and little girls at that.

So for anybody who isn't a silly little girl, it is a non-problem.

I stand facing the wall, but against segregation. I think it's pointless that men and women even be separated, as we were once all naked and unified, and now we are all clothed and at war. Any segregation is a bad one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leo

Exactly what is there to be afraid of?

Modesty if for girls, and little girls at that.

So for anybody who isn't a silly little girl, it is a non-problem.
[/b]

---

Read the opening post, Leo. :wink:

The problem isn't a problem with homophobia or modesty. It is the double-standard. If it wasn't, my opening question wouldn't have ended with "when opposite sexes must be segragated?" because my point would have been aimed against the present integration, regardless. Though I don't prefer to have a gay guy having the opportunity to eyeball me at will, seeing as how it's "taboo" for us to do the same thing to women, it is no measure issue, fundamentally, which I'm pretty sure I mentioned. If anything, it is a call to recognize the bullshit separation between the sexes, in general, and looking for different opinions on it. Of all the posts from those paying attention, I expected something a little more insightful from you. :P

Yeah, I get your point, Oneironaut. But, the alternatives are kinda impractical.

We COULD have four seperate changing rooms... one for straight women, one for lesbians, one for gay men, and one for straight men. But, then where do the bisexuals go? And what about the homosexual men and women who don't want members of the same sex oogling them cos of modesty and all that junk? The other option would be to have just a totally unisex changing room. Which, silly as it may be, lots of people are uncommfortable with. So, we're left with the middle option, which itself is rather arbitrary, outmoded and excessively traditional. But, meh. Making four changing rooms is impractical, and making one changing room would make us like the french. And we don't want to do that, cos the french eat snails and frogs, and despite their reputation to the contrary, make shithouse wine.

Rofl.

Point well-taken. :chuckle:

I suppose that, ultimately, the impracticality of segregating them overshadows the philosophical differences of opinions that could be made as to why they should/shouldn't be segregated in the first place. But then again, focusing on whether or not it would be practical to actually separate them takes all of the fun out of hearing people's opinions on what they think of the double-standard. :teeth:

I don't think guys stay around long enough in the bathroom for anyone to "check them out". As for showers I think it goes something like, you see yourself naked all the time so its not a big deal to happen to glance at someone the same gender, because its nothing you havn't seen before. And if your gay maybe you like the view a little more but its still nothing you havn't seen a million times before.

isnt it better then to make complete apartheid with gay people... or even mark them like nazis did in 2 ww ? its facism and i dont understand how anyone can think in that way.

in my country queer festival was 2 weeks ago, and they made big jumbo adverts saying "even homophobes are human... queer festival" ;)

All through primary school I had to cope with a unisex changing room. You cope with it. Self-concious people either use toilet cubicles or come up with ways of changing and showing no flesh. It hasn't scarred me.

Why not have what you have in swimming pools, a unisex changing room with lockers and cubicles?

yeah I bet people wouldn't be so damn insecure about their bodies if it weren't a complete taboo to see a member of the opposite sex naked in a non-sexual scenario. Think about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dangeruss

yeah I bet people wouldn't be so damn insecure about their bodies if it weren't a complete taboo to see a member of the opposite sex naked in a non-sexual scenario. Think about it.
[/b]

---

Yup. I agree. That goes with a lot more discrete taboos than being naked, though. Our entire way of life (no matter what "civilized" country you live in) is comprised of a bunch of concepts that are only taboo because someone(s), once upon a time, made it so.

You guys are all avoiding the main issue though. The main issue is that if we were to allow gays into the same bathroom as little boys, the same locker-room, well... I certainly wouldn't want my child exposed to homosexuality, especially that early. They're still of the idea that there is no evil in the world. I mean, they think there is no evil, and they they have to watch satan's little minions prancing around naked whenever they enter a public bathroom. if I were a parent, I would be very uncomfortable with the idea.

And you guys... it's a slippery slope. We allow gays shower with us what's next? Are we going to start dragging goats in there and bathing them as well? We let one disgusting human in there, and pretty soon all the disgusting animals will follow, pigs, dogs, hippies... it's just terrible, absolutely terrible.