U.s Is Going To Fall

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

The richest countries are china and japan. The most powerful nation is debateble as we nuclear weapon given to most countries power doesnt come into it MAD does.
I do think US will fall when the petrol runs out. It economy is based on oil and the power to use it, they are largest in debt and when oil runs out even china cant save the US. Oh yeah if it wasent for china the USA would have collaspe long ago, because they are paying of their debts.
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Ok you are wrong on both counts. China is still a third world country although it is developing at a phenomenal rate. 90% of the Chinese population are rural farmers who make barely anything. The U.S. economy is also much larger than China's and more stable for that matter. Although the Chinese government has bought a lot of U.S. debt, they depend on us just as much as we depend on them. If China tried to call in all our debt the value of the dollar would plummet and the billions of dollars in U.S. treasury bonds that China has would be worthless. Sure, they could mess up our economy but they would just be destroying themselves.

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

The richest countries are china and japan. [/b]

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Where did you get that from? Japan would for sure fall behind the U.S. I would say it has to be either Luxembourg or Switzerland, maybe Norway. I'm just guessing now but I'm sure it's one of those countries.

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Originally Posted by Conforming

So you haven't lost your humanity yet eh?....

"What CEO's make is up to the shareholders. If they get paid that much, they must be very valuable. We have a system where every healthy person can work toward achieving being that valuable for a company."

You are to say that your value lies in your worth to a company or corporation? You're already lost. I guess the "unhealthy" person is at a loss ..elitist. But maybe you just need to define "healthy" , while you're at it why not define "normal" for me? or "american"?
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Man, you really leaped to a conclusion on that one. I was talking about their values TO THEIR COMPANIES, not their general value as people.

People with severe mental illnesses and so forth are not able to become major corporate CEO's. Do you want to claim that they can? I believe in government assistance for people who truly cannot help themselves. Do you? Why? Oh, because they can't help themselves? Then why do you think they can become major corporate CEO's?

And when the Hell did I talk about "normal"?

to say 'healthy' people is just as incongruous as using the term "normal". this is what im getting at, where do you draw the line to determine who is eligible? A system that flaunts those who can most easily susseed also tramples on those who do not have the same advantages (an im also talkng about people other than the most extreme case that you liked to point out - mental retardation)

And before you go on asking me questions in your replys and continue asking questions based on what you would assume i'd say, do both of us a favour and DON'T. This just makes you look like you're holding an arguement with yourself. But it seems that you're already closed off enough to not care

China has 10 times more free capital than the US and at least 3 times the population.

Anyone notice how China is conveniently staying out of all the recent miltary activity? They're just waiting for their time. Which will probably come in the next 20 years.

Unfortunately I don't think that the US is going to go down quietly....so when the bombs start to fall, I'll be the guy running toward them.

This is such an interesting time to be alive, everyone has to agree on that. At least we can all agree that the coming years are of immense importance to the future of the world. I'm just glad I'm around to see it, whatever it may be.

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Originally Posted by Conforming

to say 'healthy' people is just as incongruous as using the term "normal". this is what im getting at, where do you draw the line to determine who is eligible? A system that flaunts those who can most easily susseed also tramples on those who do not have the same advantages (an im also talkng about people other than the most extreme case that you liked to point out - mental retardation)

And before you go on asking me questions in your replys and continue asking questions based on what you would assume i'd say, do both of us a favour and DON'T. This just makes you look like you're holding an arguement with yourself. But it seems that you're already closed off enough to not care
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I didn't mention retardation. I mentioned mental illness, which comes in a great deal of forms. There are also people with physical limitations that don't allow them to work. So what do you suggest?

There is in fact such a thing as unhealthy people. There is a range, and it is hard to determine where it begins, but there is such a thing. There are medical doctors and psychologists who work for the government and determine who is elligible for disability income. Every spot in the country is covered by that system. Do you deny that? What do you suggest the system do with those that are cosidered too incompetent to be self-sufficient? Should we use some kind of quota system that forces companies to allow them to be CEO's? Talk to me.

My conversation with myself was there to illustrate the ends of where you may have been going. That is why there were question marks at the ends of the suppositions. If you don't think the officially incompetent need government assistance, you are free to say so. If you think they are capable of being CEO's, you are free to say so. I haven't seen either from you so far. I'm not sure what you are getting at with all of this. I see your anger, but not your articulation.

Hey, let's face it, the US is going to fall, anyone disagree?

Because I have infinity worth of history that will disprove you.

they've been saying this since the 70's... 30 years later we're still here.

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Originally Posted by 3FLryan

Hey, let's face it, the US is going to fall, anyone disagree?

Because I have infinity worth of history that will disprove you.
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not in your lifetime.

I've never lived in America, but having spent all life in the shadow of American culture as is most of the English speaking world I do have an opinion on this.

I don't think the U.S. is going to fall in the sense of a revolutionary collapse of it's society and institutions. But very few great civilizations have ever fallen like that, they usually just kind of change into something else and fade away.

I do think it's glory days as the great champion of Western freedom are coming to a close, but the West as a whole is going to change into something very different.

You just can't have the same sort of individual freedom we've become accustomed to in an age where a weapon that can destroy a city can be carried in a suitcase. Things are gonna get more and more Big Brother-like as long as American cities are targets, and as long as Amercia leads the way, it's cities are always going to be targets.

Anyway, that's a non-American's opinion

Wow.

How relevent is it if America falls my lifetime or not? If you read my posts, you would see that I already said America would not fall in my lifetime. Congrats. You said nothing.

America as the ideal does not exist anymore.

Oh crap. :oops:

This is embarrasing.

This post is edited coz I made this real long reply to 3FLryan thinking he was saying the above to me!

Just for the record, 3FLryan:
I agree with you on pretty much everything said so far.

Should read properly before I reply.
Still kinda new at this...

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Originally Posted by 3FLryan

Wow.

How relevent is it if America falls my lifetime or not? If you read my posts, you would see that I already said America would not fall in my lifetime. Congrats. You said nothing.

America as the ideal does not exist anymore.
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Well then congratulations
Youve said NOTHING
all superpowers, all nations fall at some time
it is the nature of nations
they rise they fall
they rise they fall
So your statement means nothing.
If you wer predicting a very recent date, then you wuld hav emade a sttement worth dicussing
I would have disagreed but you would ahve at least made a statement

Imran

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Originally Posted by imran_p

Well then congratulations
Youve said NOTHING
all superpowers, all nations fall at some time
it is the nature of nations
they rise they fall
they rise they fall
So your statement means nothing.
If you wer predicting a very recent date, then you wuld hav emade a sttement worth dicussing
I would have disagreed but you would ahve at least made a statement

Imran
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No I disagree how are you going to compare past events with current events? Yes there were powerful nations that did fall in the past but they are not to be compared with nations of today, and especially no comparison with the U.S. There was never a single nation that had the strength and might to obliterate this planet 10x's over. Throughout the decades of the Cold War, the United States and the Soviet Union both lived with a godlike nuclear capacity to obliterate the cosmos, along with a fear of being annihilated by the enemy power. Now America alone possesses that world-destroying capacity, and post-Soviet Russia no longer looms as a nuclear or superpower adversary. We have yet to grasp the full impact of this exclusive capacity to blow up anyone or everything, but its reverberations are never absent in any part of the world.
This looms over the "Entire Earth" The United States is not going to lose it's position as the World's Super Power no time soon, If ever for that matter.

(Reticently poking my head back into the discussion after my earlier embarresing blog-blunder)

I would toatally agree that America is the most powerful nation on the planet right now.
I also agree that we are living in a time that is incomparable with any other.
When else in history has a nation with the power to obliterate the planet also been so vulnerable itself?

Imagine if the Roman Empire at the height of its power was at the same time vulnerable to having it's capital devastated by a small group of individuals with some vials of liquid or a single crate-sized device.
It's really ironic and really scary at the same time.

That being said, a nation like the U.S. doesn't get to that level of power just by accident.
America has faced some pretty big threats in the past and I'm sure it'll take a lot more than terrorist organizations to bring it down.
If anything, like all the great world powers of the past, American society itself is probably its own worst enemy.

reminded me of Dune

House Corrino, the Emperors House, was the strongest house, yet it could not match the power of the other houses combined against it

and there within lies the balance

the proletariat will never become conscious of their power

"to rebel they first must become conscious but they will never become conscious unless they rebel"

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Originally Posted by Conforming

"to rebel they first must become conscious but they will never become conscious unless they rebel"
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Now that's DEEP! :shock:

Swiss cheese is the only kind of cheese that you can bite into, and miss. :)

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Originally Posted by imran_p

Well then congratulations
Youve said NOTHING
all superpowers, all nations fall at some time
it is the nature of nations
they rise they fall
they rise they fall
So your statement means nothing.
If you wer predicting a very recent date, then you wuld hav emade a sttement worth dicussing
I would have disagreed but you would ahve at least made a statement

Imran
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Imran, I'm not so dense as to think I am saying something profound with my statement. But I'm just not so sure how many people actually think about the possibility that the US will one day, MAYBE someday not so far away, not be around. Of course, I've said nothing to you, because you think about that kind of thing. All I wanted to do is point out something I don't think many people think about.

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Originally Posted by 3FLryan

Wow.

How relevent is it if America falls my lifetime or not? If you read my posts, you would see that I already said America would not fall in my lifetime. Congrats. You said nothing.

America as the ideal does not exist anymore.
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so... you're arguing that america's reign of power will not last for the entire expanse of time that this universe is capable of?

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please read my response to you comment, it would be a learning experience for you[/b]

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you're right it was a learning experience for me... now i know not to take you seriously. thanks.

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Whenever I see a police car, I flick it off.

Yeah, I'm gonna get in a lot of trouble some day. [/b]

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that's the mentality that will keep you from being taken seriously.

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Whenever I see a police car, I flick it off.

Yeah, I'm gonna get in a lot of trouble some day.[/b]

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Wow, that's nice. It increasingly worries me how so many people seem to view police officers as something other than human beings. I really feel for those guys sometimes.

What happened to your banana head, Kaniaz? :(

we have the most bombs. no one would touch us; they know we can turn the whole side of the world they live on to dust. the only people we have to be afraid of are the extremist Muslims that actually want to do die fighting America. everyone else wants to stay alive, so they won't fuck with us.

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Originally Posted by Alucinor

we have the most bombs. no one would touch us; they know we can turn the whole side of the world they live on to dust. the only people we have to be afraid of are the extremist Muslims that actually want to do die fighting America. everyone else wants to stay alive, so they won't fuck with us.
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Don't worry, America will fuck itself :) You are already penetrating your butt cheeks of fat to reach America's asshole right now :)