Fascism

Dose anyone else here believe that we're a socialist fascism in the disguise of a democracy? :blue:

Whatever you'd call it, it's not healthy anyway. Politicians are everywhere the same, they're a contradiction of loyalty and trustfulness.

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Dose anyone else here believe that we're a socialist fascism in the disguise of a democracy? [/b]

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Yes, however i think orwell said it best when he said that if you gave a picture of humanity it would be someone with their boot on someone head. It was actually more poetic, but you get the picture.

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Originally Posted by taltho

Dose anyone else here believe that we're a socialist fascism in the disguise of a democracy? :blue:
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I assume by we you eman the Unieted States, i mnot assuiming that for any other reason than th emajrity of posters ehre are from the U.S

and no i disagree, how could the united states ever possibly considered socialist in any way shape or form?

Imran

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and no i disagree, how could the united states ever possibly considered socialist in any way shape or form?[/b]

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Oh yes, imran p is right he always right. Well in america or US their is a huge anti socialist movement kind of like the communist hunt, which went on in the 1950 to 1960. I think you mean consertive fascism or just fascism, i would brand US as more as a religious fascist as they make up most of the goverment and the church has massive power in US.

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Originally Posted by taltho

Dose anyone else here believe that we're a socialist fascism in the disguise of a democracy? :blue:
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Well you at least are an egocentric facist, because: Welcome to the internets, where more people speak english then Americans.

America has QUITE some fascistic traits.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
This is one of those sites that compare the 14 points of fascism, and they fit perfectly. Don't forget, those points weren't make with America at mind. I thought the professor that made that list was into Germany more.. fascist Nazi Germany.

Don't worry, only 13 of the 14 points overlap!!!

Um, social security, medicare, welfare are all socialist in nature. And a lot of people want to make our health care system even more socialist.

Seriously, social secuirty is the definition of socialism. Everyone who works is forced to pay money into the system, which the government then gives to other people. I mean, do I really need to spell it out for you?

Yep,

Conforming non-conformist prediction:
Give it another decade of passive acceptance of anything thrown at the public in the name of safety. It will take a bit of stewing for democracy to soften into what it actually is...keep an eye out and be afraid...BE vErrryyy afraid!!!! muh ahahahahah (scary voice)

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Originally Posted by Alric

Um, social security, medicare, welfare are all socialist in nature. And a lot of people want to make our health care system even more socialist.

Seriously, social secuirty is the definition of socialism. Everyone who works is forced to pay money into the system, which the government then gives to other people. I mean, do I really need to spell it out for you?
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Such a foolish post
yes spell it out fo me
To even think that America could be socialist is preopoterous, in the UK we have the NHS, coutesey of Nye Bevan, but it doesnt make this country socialist.
I rebutt the claims of Socialism with three words: Extensive Private Ownership.

Every form of legitimate socialism is chracterized by state ownership or community ownership.

Its lyk Germany under the Nazi Party. It wasnt socailist. The word Socialist is banded around willy-nilly to describe economic systems that dont even come close to socialism and are i nfact the compeltel opposite,
Free Market Capitalism
Pracitcally imperalism, but hey, lets not go into tht.

=)

Imran

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Oh yes, imran p is right he always right. Well in america or US their is a huge anti socialist movement kind of like the communist hunt, which went on in the 1950 to 1960. I think you mean consertive fascism or just fascism, i would brand US as more as a religious fascist as they make up most of the goverment and the church has massive power in US.
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The only cool thing you said was "religious fascism" I actually agree with you all the way.

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Well you at least are an egocentric facist, because: Welcome to the internets, where more people speak english then Americans.

America has QUITE some fascistic traits.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
This is one of those sites that compare the 14 points of fascism, and they fit perfectly. Don't forget, those points weren't make with America at mind. I thought the professor that made that list was into Germany more.. fascist Nazi Germany.

Don't worry, only 13 of the 14 points overlap!!!
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thanks for the link!

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Um, social security, medicare, welfare are all socialist in nature. And a lot of people want to make our health care system even more socialist.

Seriously, social secuirty is the definition of socialism. Everyone who works is forced to pay money into the system, which the government then gives to other people. I mean, do I really need to spell it out for you?
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YES IT IS!!!

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Yep,

Conforming non-conformist prediction:
Give it another decade of passive acceptance of anything thrown at the public in the name of safety. It will take a bit of stewing for democracy to soften into what it actually is...keep an eye out and be afraid...BE vErrryyy afraid!!!! muh ahahahahah (scary voice)
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FUNNY...I have about the same prediction.

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Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Such a foolish post
yes spell it out fo me
To even think that America could be socialist is preopoterous, in the UK we have the NHS, coutesey of Nye Bevan, but it doesnt make this country socialist.
I rebutt the claims of Socialism with three words: Extensive Private Ownership.

Every form of legitimate socialism is chracterized by state ownership or community ownership.

Its lyk Germany under the Nazi Party. It wasnt socailist. The word Socialist is banded around willy-nilly to describe economic systems that dont even come close to socialism and are i nfact the compeltel opposite,
Free Market Capitalism
Pracitcally imperalism, but hey, lets not go into tht.

=)

Imran
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Imran, Imran, Imran,... We do have almost absolute state ownership all our land has a title with the states name on top, every car halso has a title, all small businesses have tittle and a contract with the IRS. all these titles say that the state owns and "we the people" get to rent it through taxing, don't pay your taxes lose you property, lose your business and go to jail, youy did not buy it you payed for the right to rent it. In your own terms you have proven the US a fascism.

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Originally Posted by taltho

Dose anyone else here believe that we're a socialist fascism in the disguise of a democracy? :blue:
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Yes. I don't think the socialist part was always true, I don't really know when the fascism came so much into the picture, but I think the democracy part was probably always a disguise.

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Yes. I don't think the socialist part was always true, I don't really know when the fascism came so much into the picture, but I think the democracy part was probably always a disguise.
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Yah, but your pretty smart. :wink:

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Originally Posted by taltho

Yah, but your pretty smart. :wink:
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Cause I agree with you? :wink: back

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Cause I agree with you? :wink: back
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haha...and I thought I was the one agreeing with you. :biggrin:

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary:
Fascism, noun
a nationalistic and anti-Communist system of government like that of Italy 1922-43, where all aspects of society are controlled by the state and all criticism or opposition is suppressed.


I read a news article about a couple of catholic protestors in North Dakota. They hit the walls of a missle silo, and threw some pig blood on it. thats it. They were sentenced to close to a year in jail.

Life doesn't work like that. You think its black or white, that your either socialist or your not. The fact is that socialism plays a large part in our country. No, our country isn't 100% socialist but there is a very real socialist agenda. And theres no way around saying social secuirty is a socialist program as its basicly wealth redistribution.

As for private property, the government has already ruled it can take your homes and then sell them for a profit. They take peoples homes all the time and then sell them to a company which builds higher price homes which will give the city more tax money.

If your arrested in this country, the government often takes your property and then sells it off, even if it had nothing to do with the crime you committed. So what are you talking about? We have a government than can take your private property under bullshit reasons and forces its population to pay into a wealth redistribution plan and you say we will never go socialist. You need to wake up, its already happening, one step at a time.

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Originally Posted by taltho

Imran, Imran, Imran,... We do have almost absolute state ownership all our land has a title with the states name on top, every car halso has a title
, all small businesses have tittle and a contract with the IRS. all these titles say that the state owns and "we the people" get to rent it through taxing, don't pay your taxes lose you property, lose your business and go to jail, youy did not buy it you payed for the right to rent it. In your own terms you have proven the US a fascism.
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i agree with your point regarding facism to an extent, the socialst part i refuted

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Originally Posted by taltho

Life doesn't work like that. You think its black or white, that your either socialist or your not. The fact is that socialism plays a large part in our country. No, our country isn't 100% socialist but there is a very real socialist agenda. And theres no way around saying social secuirty is a socialist program as its basicly wealth redistribution.

As for private property, the government has already ruled it can take your homes and then sell them for a profit. They take peoples homes all the time and then sell them to a company which builds higher price homes which will give the city more tax money.

If your arrested in this country, the government often takes your property and then sells it off, even if it had nothing to do with the crime you committed. So what are you talking about? We have a government than can take your private property under bullshit reasons and forces its population to pay into a wealth redistribution plan and you say we will never go socialist. You need to wake up, its already happening, one step at a time.
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The key is your statemnt that they can take away your private proeprty, bloody hell man, if theres private property its not socailist.
And we are discussing the United States, the msot capitalstc country nthe world
What about all the major corporations, like Macdolands, Wal-Mart, Haliburton
You think thats soclailst.
DOnt spout crap about social security, the odd scoialsit feature does not even make a country remotely socialist.
One step at a time, you think Bush wants the country to become Socialist?
Are you shitting me?
It'd be a mriacle and a gift if you did
but your not going to
I beleive your the one needs to open your eyes, if you udnerstood that Socailsm is built upon MArxist economics with variations, you'd understand that the United States does not at all apply these economics.

You cant pinpoint indivudal features, you msut discusss the economic system as a whole

Be serious man

Imran

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Originally Posted by imran_p

The key is your statemnt that they can take away your private proeprty, bloody hell man, if theres private property its not socailist.[/b]

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Um you missed the point. If they can take it away, then you don't really own it. Once you get into the idea that the government owns everything but "allows" you to keep it for the time being, its no longer private propert, its socialism.

Wrong, the governemnt could at no point inform the owners of wal-mart that the company now belongs to them, as you obviously udnerstand it would not work

stop bieng so blind

Imran

I am blind? Of course they wont take walmart, its a huge company with millions to spend to fight the government in courts if they tried. What does work however, is the government taking over individuals homes. Obviously you havn't heard of all the eminent domain abuses that have been going on all around the country over the last 5-10 years.

Government taking someones house away to build a golf course. Taking entire blocks of people homes away and selling it to developers so they can rebuild the area and raise the property value to increase taxes. Forcing people out of their homes then just deciding they don't want it anymore and then selling it to someone else, for them to use as the please. Its all bullshit and it happens all the time.

I guess as long as walmart isn't taken over you don't care right? Who cares about the people, the only people who get private property are large companies. You know, you make me sick.

im gonna have to agree with alric here. one way that big cities have 'cleaned' out the city of poverty is to destroy affordable homes and apartments and erect fancier, expensive or some fancy hotel. thus, the lower income families are literally forced out of the city, high income families come in and what do you know, the city no longer has poverty. it makes more money, brings in more business

the poverty still exists, it just moved

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Originally Posted by Alric

Life doesn't work like that. You think its black or white, that your either socialist or your not. The fact is that socialism plays a large part in our country. No, our country isn't 100% socialist but there is a very real socialist agenda. And theres no way around saying social secuirty is a socialist program as its basicly wealth redistribution.

As for private property, the government has already ruled it can take your homes and then sell them for a profit. They take peoples homes all the time and then sell them to a company which builds higher price homes which will give the city more tax money.

If your arrested in this country, the government often takes your property and then sells it off, even if it had nothing to do with the crime you committed. So what are you talking about? We have a government than can take your private property under bullshit reasons and forces its population to pay into a wealth redistribution plan and you say we will never go socialist. You need to wake up, its already happening, one step at a time.
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Originally Posted by Alric

i agree with your point regarding facism to an extent, the socialst part i refuted
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Ok, what is your logic? Also what he says below.

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Originally Posted by Alric

Um you missed the point. If they can take it away, then you don't really own it. Once you get into the idea that the government owns everything but "allows" you to keep it for the time being, its no longer private propert, its socialism.
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Originally Posted by Alric

I am blind? Of course they wont take walmart, its a huge company with millions to spend to fight the government in courts if they tried. What does work however, is the government taking over individuals homes. Obviously you havn't heard of all the eminent domain abuses that have been going on all around the country over the last 5-10 years.

Government taking someones house away to build a golf course. Taking entire blocks of people homes away and selling it to developers so they can rebuild the area and raise the property value to increase taxes. Forcing people out of their homes then just deciding they don't want it anymore and then selling it to someone else, for them to use as the please. Its all bullshit and it happens all the time.

I guess as long as walmart isn't taken over you don't care right? Who cares about the people, the only people who get private property are large companies. You know, you make me sick.
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Thats exactly right.

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Originally Posted by juroara

im gonna have to agree with alric here. one way that big cities have 'cleaned' out the city of poverty is to destroy affordable homes and apartments and erect fancier, expensive or some fancy hotel. thus, the lower income families are literally forced out of the city, high income families come in and what do you know, the city no longer has poverty. it makes more money, brings in more business

the poverty still exists, it just moved
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"the poverty still exists, it just moved" how can that possibly sound like socialism? just because the government has the power in some situations to take your property from you doesn't make it a socialism. eminent domain is used to clear out the poor and replace it with the rich, if that sounds like redistribution of wealth something is wrong. property is yours in america, it can be sold by you or you can buy property, it can also be handed down through the generations, america is not a socialism and isn't even slowly becoming one, especially when congress raises their own wages 35 times before considering raising minimum wage...

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Originally Posted by resonate

"the poverty still exists, it just moved" how can that possibly sound like socialism? just because the government has the power in some situations to take your property from you doesn't make it a socialism. eminent domain is used to clear out the poor and replace it with the rich, if that sounds like redistribution of wealth something is wrong. property is yours in america, it can be sold by you or you can buy property, it can also be handed down through the generations, america is not a socialism and isn't even slowly becoming one, especially when congress raises their own wages 35 times before considering raising minimum wage...
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Property is yours, as long as, you pay for that right through property taxes. Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't pay your taxes you lose your property, don't drive you car legally, they can take your car if you don't license it is this public safety?

We do have a redistribution of wealth but what is it doing. It's taking out hte middle class and small businesses.
What dose that mean.

If were not socialist and not becoming socialist what are we, and what are we becoming?

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Originally Posted by taltho

We do have a redistribution of wealth but what is it doing. It's taking out hte middle class and small businesses.
What dose that mean.

If were not socialist and not becoming socialist what are we, and what are we becoming?
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but you see as long as you abide by the law, the property is yours. in a socialist society it all belongs to the state from the start. its more of a relocation of wealth than a redistribution, because redistribution would involve taking from the rich and giving to the poor, with eminent domain the government doesn't properly compensate for the loss of the people's property and hands it over to rich people who want to build malls or expensive condos. i'm not saying this is true in all eminent domain cases but enough to cause alarm. what this means is america is becoming more of a fascism than a socialism. plus you have the war on unionized labor and all sorts of signs showing this trend. back during the great depression, under FDR, it was becoming more of a socialist society, but most definitely not now.