Memorial day observed - Do you approve?

This Monday in the states we set aside a day, May 28th to recognize those who have served our country through the military.

I am curious to know for I have not personally talked to anyone avid enough to have this view.

I know many people are against war. War of any kind at any time. It is just not justifiable to many.
Trying to focus on those who served rather than pro war or anti war, how do you feel about the people who have served in war? For those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice and died in war?
Are you against their serving? Provided it was not a draft.
I beleive there are both pros and cons to this debate.

My family observes Memorial Day at the gravesides of fallen soldiers. We perform two small services, as adopted from the standard VFW service. We honor without question as to why, but in recognition that they DID. We do a circuit of four cemeteries all together.

Many headstones and graves lay unattended across this nation and around the world. If nothing else, consider heading to a cemetery with a trowel, a whisk broom and a gallon jug of water and do something to keep the memory of the sacrifices these men and women made visible... and remembered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pj

My family observes Memorial Day at the gravesides of fallen soldiers. We perform two small services, as adopted from the standard VFW service. We honor without question as to why, but in recognition that they DID. We do a circuit of four cemeteries all together.

Many headstones and graves lay unattended across this nation and around the world. If nothing else, consider heading to a cemetery with a trowel, a whisk broom and a gallon jug of water and do something to keep the memory of the sacrifices these men and women made visible... and remembered.

---

I agree with you pj.
:bowdown:And always remember POW and MIA !
I few of my employees wanted to work Monday to get ahead.
I told them they should observe this day, for I would likely not be a entrepreneur and you may not have a job. ;)

~My dad served in the Korean war.

Our ceremony will be conducted with my wife's step-grandfather, a WWII vet who fought in the South Pacific, at the memorial grave site of her real grandfather who died there, buried in Italy and later moved here.

My wife grew up with these services. Since we have been married, we've watched the ranks of this group of vets thin down to the one remaining.

This is the ceremony I cobbled together after there weren't enough left to continue the tradition. If any want to use it, please feel free:
--

This is an adaptation of the standard VFW graveside memorial.

The brief service requires people acting on behalf of the VFW Commander, Vice-Commander, Junior Vice Commander, Commander Officer Of The Day, Chaplain, President of the Lady's Auxiliary and a bugler or suitable way to play taps, if possible.

Acting Commander: The long tradition of Veterans of Foreign Wars graveside memorial services has been growing more difficult to carry on as the ranks of our treasured veterans grows thinner. While we cannot pretend to fill the shoes of these great men and women, we temporarily assume the roles of the VFW officers to carry on the tradition, acting on their behalf in commemorating the sacrifices of those who gave all for this great nation. We welcome any and all who would participate in this public remembrance of the heroic servicemen and women who have made possible the life we enjoy today. And so we begin the commemoration.

As long as any comrade's descendants survive - so long will the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, their families and friends render tribute to our heroic dead.

Comrades, on this day, forever consecrated to our heroic dead, we are assembled once again to express sincere reverence. This grave represents the resting places of many departed heroes who served in all wars. Wherever the body of one who defended their nation in the armed forces lies, there the ground is hallowed. Our presence here is in solemn commemoration of all these men - an expression of our tribute to their devotion to duty, to their courage and patriotism. By their services on land, on sea and in the air they have made us their debtors - for the flag of our nation still flies over a land of free people.

Chaplain, you will ask the divine blessing.

Acting Chaplain:
Father of us all! In the depth of our silent reverence we realize the truth of the inspired words, "I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."

As comrade after comrade departs we carry on the tradition of recognition as the ranks of those who fought these battles grows thinner. Help us to be faithful unto You and to one another. Look in mercy on the widows and children of our departed defenders, protectors and comrades, we ask You, and with Your own tenderness console and comfort those who are bereaved.

Heavenly Father, bless our country with freedom, peace and righteousness. Through Your favor may we be reunited at last before Your throne in Heaven. We praise Your Great Name forever and forever. Amen.

Acting Commander:
Attention! Acting officers, family members and friends of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, we will now pay our respects to our departed comrade. In so doing we offer solemn tribute to all who have fallen defending the United States of America wherever they may rest. Acting Senior Vice-Commander!

Acting Senior Vice-Commander:
On behalf of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, I place this symbol of our remembrance. (Places wreath.)

Acting Commander:
Acting Junior Vice-Commander!

Acting Junior Vice-Commander:
I place this symbol of purity on this comrade's grave. May each future generation emulate the unselfish courage of all who fought for freedom. (Places white flower.)

Acting Commander:
Acting Commander Officer of Day!

Acting Commander Officer of Day:
In memory of the heroic dead who have fallen in defense of the United States of America I place this tribute of our devotion and everlasting remembrance. (Places red flower.)

Acting Commander:
Acting President of the Ladies Auxiliary to the Veterans of Foreign Wars!

Acting Auxiliary President:
On behalf of the Ladies Auxiliary, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, I place this emblem of eternity. Its color bespeaks life everlasting. Thus do we immortalize the brave deeds of our soldiers, sailors and marines who have given their lives on land, on sea and in the air. (Places blue flower.)

Acting Commander:
On behalf of our glorious republic for whose integrity our comrades enlisted and served, I place this emblem of the nation. The flag of our country was theirs to defend. Its glorious colors shall wave over them in death as in life - for everyone to behold.

To you who have departed, we render a silent salute.

Comrades, Salute! One!

(All in uniform hold salute to grave for ten seconds. Those not in uniform hold their right hand over their heart.)

Comrades in the Silent Land Beyond, wherever your mortal remains may rest, these solemn services we hold in tribute to you.

Two!

(If available, Taps is played, the salute is ended and the participants are dismissed.)

Adapted from "VFW Ritual Book", (as revised in 1953.)

Yes I do approve. Why? No school.

I'm against war, in principle, and I don't have the kind of "brainwashed" patriotism that would require me to die for my country in a foreign land because some asshole sent me to make other people die for theirs.

That being said, I like memorial day, in a "not having to go to work" kind of way.

Amen, pj. That was very touching. It got me just a little bit choked up. When I was in the Cub/Boy Scouts, I got to participate in patriotic events such as this. As a child, it's hard to fully comprehend the magnitude of the message and of the sacrifice made by my fellow countrymen. As I got older my understanding has increased many times over. Not out of jingoism but, out of appreciation for what I have.

I respect and appreciate each and every member of our military, for each has the courage and selflessness to do what I myself lack the courage, bravery and strength to do. War is a necessary evil and I'd like to thank each one who has faced that evil so that I do have to. And so that most of our citizens don't have to.

We think freedom is free but, in actuality, freedom comes at great cost. That cost is often in the form of lives, lives with so much potential and heart who choose to give everything for the happiness and security of those who may not even know what was sacrificed or what was/is at stake.

Military conflict is never pretty. Nor is it pleasant. But everything worth having is worth fighting for. We should all be thankful (no matter where you live or were born) that there are those who understand and appreciate that fact of live.

To all veterans and current service men and women: Thank you so much. We all owe you a debt that we can never pay in full :thanks: (where's a good "respect" smilie when you need it?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ataraxis

Yes I do approve. Why? No school.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Replicon

That being said, I like memorial day, in a "not having to go to work" kind of way.

---

It looks like you both appreciate freedom. If it weren't for people dying for your freedom, you would not have it. That is a fact. It is not just a tired old talking point. It is the truth. It really is. History's conquesting dictators were not stopped in their tracks by their own boredom. They were stopped by people who valued freedom so much they were willing to die so others could have it. That is why memorial day is celebrated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If it weren't for people dying for your freedom, you would not have it. That is a fact.

---

Be that as it may, I don't believe war to be a sustainable model for the survival of the human race.

Quote:

---

History's conquesting dictators were not stopped in their tracks by their own boredom. They were stopped by people who valued freedom so much they were willing to die so others could have it. That is why memorial day is celebrated.

---

I know why memorial day is celebrated, and believe me, I mean no disrespect for all the people that died for my freedom. I just think many of them died unnecessarily, even though "war is a fact of life" and all that. Let's face it, someone dying in WW2 made sense. But with current events, you gotta question the motives a little bit.

But going back to WWII, you'll notice that, while there have been plenty of atrocities since, none had the same kind of scale or scope. I believe the main reason for this is the global economy. In its simplest relevant form, the idea is, "You don't kill your customers, because that's bad for business." When they said "Never Again", they meant it, and that's just one example of a non-war way of helping to ensure continuing freedom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It looks like you both appreciate freedom. If it weren't for people dying for your freedom, you would not have it. That is a fact. It is not just a tired old talking point. It is the truth. It really is. History's conquesting dictators were not stopped in their tracks by their own boredom. They were stopped by people who valued freedom so much they were willing to die so others could have it. That is why memorial day is celebrated.

---

I don't see why one should feel thankful towards others who did not help oneself directly. So in this case freedom should just be taken for granted.

And no, an If is hardly a fact. An If is an If.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Replicon

Be that as it may, I don't believe war to be a sustainable model for the survival of the human race.

I know why memorial day is celebrated, and believe me, I mean no disrespect for all the people that died for my freedom. I just think many of them died unnecessarily, even though "war is a fact of life" and all that. Let's face it, someone dying in WW2 made sense. But with current events, you gotta question the motives a little bit.

But going back to WWII, you'll notice that, while there have been plenty of atrocities since, none had the same kind of scale or scope. I believe the main reason for this is the global economy. In its simplest relevant form, the idea is, "You don't kill your customers, because that's bad for business." When they said "Never Again", they meant it, and that's just one example of a non-war way of helping to ensure continuing freedom.

---

I think we will eventually get to the point where war no longer happens. It is going to take the end of dictatorships/monarchies/etc. to get us there, but I think the world will be free of totalitarian states some time in the next few hundred years. Let's hope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King and God

I don't see why one should feel thankful towards others who did not help oneself directly. So in this case freedom should just be taken for granted.

And no, an If is hardly a fact. An If is an If.

---

The Allied Powers helped both of us directly by stopping the world from becoming a Hitlerian state, which is what the world was on its way to becoming. Imagine what that reality would be like. It almost happened. I am also appreciative of the American forces that won our independence from Britain, for another example. Britain is a great country now, but it sucked when it was an oppressive monarchy.

A fact can involve an if. If A = B and B = C, then A = C. That is a fact that involves the word "if".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I think we will eventually get to the point where war no longer happens. It is going to take the end of dictatorships/monarchies/etc. to get us there, but I think the world will be free of totalitarian states some time in the next few hundred years. Let's hope.

---

Exactly, and that's precisely why war is so necessary. Those are the very evils that the "good guys" go to war to get rid of.

Quote:

---

The Allied Powers helped both of us directly by stopping the world from becoming a Hitlerian state, which is what the world was on its way to becoming. Imagine what that reality would be like. It almost happened. I am also appreciative of the American forces that won our independence from Britain, for another example. Britain is it sucked when it was an oppressive monarchy.

---

Again, good call.

Quote:

---

A fact can involve an if. If A = B and B = C, then A = C. That is a fact that involves the word "if".

---

I love it :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Exactly, and that's precisely why war is so necessary. Those are the very evils that the "good guys" go to war to get rid of.

---

Just remember, each side thinks of themselves as "the good guys".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Replicon

Just remember, each side thinks of themselves as "the good guys".

---

I'm more than aware of that. All you can do is think things through and hope you're on the "right" team.

But, there is a big difference that often figures into the picture. The difference is that the "bad guys" are not fighting for freedom. The bad guys are usually fighting against freedom.

Look at the Middle East situation. Look at the Hitler situation. Look at the Pol Pot situation. Look at the whole Soviet Union situation. The list goes on... What common traits do all of those share? There were all against freedom.

Memorial Day is about freedom and those who fought for it. That is who the "good guys" are.

First off; I support any and every troop that goes into battle with a clear head and sober resolve to fight for good. These people are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice (and then some) for, what they perceive is, the good of our nation. For that reason, I definitely support Memorial Day.
However, what I don't always support is the means for these brave men and women being herded into conflict under false or insufficient pretenses, and the damage-control ideology of "If you don't support our war, you don't support our troops" that so many (everyone on Fox News, as a small example) like to use, to try to take the public crosshairs off of what's really important.
But I don't really feel like going too far into all that.
Yes, I approve of Memorial Day, given that it's acknowledged for the right reasons, and not as some spectacle to promote "patriotism."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I think we will eventually get to the point where war no longer happens. It is going to take the end of dictatorships/monarchies/etc. to get us there, but I think the world will be free of totalitarian states some time in the next few hundred years. Let's hope.

---

I really don't see that as possible - in any way. War is just as much an eruption of the conflict of ideas and beliefs (which - call me cynical but - the world will never be free of, if you ask me) as it is about government strong-arming.
But yeah, for the sake of optimism, let's hope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The Allied Powers helped both of us directly by stopping the world from becoming a Hitlerian state, which is what the world was on its way to becoming. Imagine what that reality would be like. It almost happened.

---

Definition of indirectly (dictionary.com): "coming or resulting otherwise than directly or immediately, as effects or consequences"

As a consequence of the Allied victory in WW2 we were "helped".

Besides, having Nazi Germany conquer Europe would not necessarily have been bad for me (assuming that the change of events would not have prevented my birth), since I'm of Germanic blood. And since I would have been raised in a Nazi nation from birth, I would probably not mind it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

...but it sucked when it was an oppressive monarchy.

---

That is your opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King and God

Definition of indirectly (dictionary.com): "coming or resulting otherwise than directly or immediately, as effects or consequences"

As a consequence of the Allied victory in WW2 we were "helped".

Besides, having Nazi Germany conquer Europe would not necessarily have been bad for me (assuming that the change of events would not have prevented my birth), since I'm of Germanic blood. And since I would have been raised in a Nazi nation from birth, I would probably not mind it.

That is your opinion.

---

The Allied Powers directly stopped the Nazis from taking over my world and yours, which is not something it makes sense to undermine. You might not mind Nazis ruling the world and killing off most of humanity, but if you had a crippled son, you would suddenly care very much, assuming you would care about the son the Nazis would kill. You also might like England when it was ruled by King George III, but you would have hated it when they found out your religious stance and put you in prison for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King and God

I don't see why one should feel thankful towards others who did not help oneself directly. So in this case freedom should just be taken for granted.

And no, an If is hardly a fact. An If is an If.

---

You did not think before you wrote that...right?
What a stupid thing to say. Related to war or anything else.

You are implying that things done indirectly not for you do not have an impact on you. If you believe that then I understand the ignorance form which your statement came.

I don't agree with war however I do respect the soldiers that go out there and fight for freedom. If only the word could settle fights with words and not violence :shakehead2:

I feel sorry for most of the troops, who are taken advantage of by our government, all the times. Some of the wars were worth fighting, some of them weren't. I think people who joined in some of wars are brave and noble and I think some who joined in others are just stupid.

That said, we are talking about people who have died and it really doesn't matter what they did in life, they were human and deserve respect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alric

I feel sorry for most of the troops, who are taken advantage of by our government, all the times. Some of the wars were worth fighting, some of them weren't. I think people who joined in some of wars are brave and noble and I think some who joined in others are just stupid.

That said, we are talking about people who have died and it really doesn't matter what they did in life, they were human and deserve respect.

---

Me too.
Most are young and impressionable and want to belong to something. The Government uses that for it's advantage.
When you train an individual, group or mass to kill, how much different is the fundamental aspect than that of any other events we call atrocities, Hitler's soldiers, the Taliban. There not doing it against their will. They have been conditioned to believe "their truth just as our soldiers fight for freedom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Howie

Me too.
Most are young and impressionable and want to belong to something. The Government uses that for it's advantage.

---

I don't know what "undisclosed location" you reside in but if you can't appreciate that fighting for freedom is done for the advantage of the entire "free world" then you really should reconsider what you have in life. Whether you're American or not, freedom is where it's at. You'd be pretty f'd if it weren't for those who valued freedom enough to fight for it. I don't care who you are or where you live, freedom fighters do what they do for EVERYONE and we are ALL in their debt.

The preceding message is to everyone here, not you in particular.

That is very true, if your actually fighting for freedom. The problem is that "fighting for freedom" is over used in propaganda. Such as the current war we are fighting, which has absolutely nothing to do with our freedom. Yet how many times have you heard someone say that it does?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alric

...the current war we are fighting, which has absolutely nothing to do with our freedom.

---

I'm not getting into a long arguement over this so I'll keep this short and sweet. Feel free to disagree all you want.

You are absolutely, 100%, in-arguably... wrong. It has everything to do with our freedom. The worst mistake we can possibly make is to not properly identify our enemy and their intentions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

The worst mistake we can possibly make is to not properly identify our enemy and their intentions.

---

I couldn't agree more with that statement. The problem however is that we have failed to properly identify our enemies and their intentions. Otherwise we wouldn't be fighting a war which has nothing to do with our freedoms.