things like this are keeping racism alive.

I was watching "A History of God" on the history channel, but forgot I'd recorded it and could skip the commercials, so I ended up watching a few. one of them (it was an advertisement not a commercial) was something like this (and I'm totally paraphrasing because I can't remember exactly how it was worded): "Traffic lights...the mailbox...these were invented by african-americans." and then they said something about celebrating african-american inventors.

at first, I didn't pay any attention to it. but then I thought about it and I was like, wait...whaaaaat?

the impression I got from it was this: "You think black people are useless? well we invented this and that. we ARE good for something."

who is this advertisement aimed at? I never thought black people were useless. it's not like I had no idea that some things were invented by black people. why don't we praise inventors by what they invent, and completely ignore the colour of their skin the same as we would any other IRRELEVANT FACT, like for example their sexual orientation?

the way I see it, things like this are not doing anything to help eradicate racism. if anything, they're keeping it alive.

(I'm having the hardest time articulating my thoughts today, but hopefully my point is clear.)

what do you think?

I know what your talking about, but I just deal with it. The thing that makes me mad is reverse racism. When black people try to say that we are racist etc.. Which this commercial seems to have a hint of in it. But it doesn't really cause anymore racism besides in people that are already racist. The people creating the commercial probably had that in mind. Making racist people mad is probably fun for them, while still getting their point through that blacks contribute to the society. Now the type of reverse racism that pisses me off is like when they say, "OMG we were slaves for hundreds of years, you should give me a break and treat me like royalty". and, "It's because i'm black" type shit.... That makes me want to punch em in the jaw, and I would, then they'd call me racist... lol

A black dude invented peanut butter, I am forever happy :D
That's just a joke... But I do thank him.

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Originally Posted by Michael

Now the type of reverse racism that pisses me off is like when they say, "OMG we were slaves for hundreds of years, you should give me a break and treat me like royalty". and, "It's because i'm black" type shit.... That makes me want to punch em in the jaw, and I would, then they'd call me racist... lol

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Exactly

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"OMG we were slaves for hundreds of years, you should give me a break and treat me like royalty".

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give them a break? what about the hundreds of thousands of people that lost their lives fighting to free them? (I'm not arguing with you, just adding to that.)

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But it doesn't really cause anymore racism besides in people that are already racist. The people creating the commercial probably had that in mind. Making racist people mad is probably fun for them, while still getting their point through that blacks contribute to the society.

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what I meant by "keeping it alive", is that the ad, or the mentality behind it, is holding onto racism. it's keeping it alive if only in the minds of black people. because white people who are still racist against blacks would eventually die off, I'm sure, but what good is that if it's still festering in the minds of blacks? if they keep that mentality, that attitude, it will cause more white people to become racist. it's the whole "law of attraction", "mind over matter" thing. if they believe recism is still there, and act like it is, then it will be. see?

I agree, and I think I talked about some of this stuff in some other thread...

I live at the edge of a predominantly black neighbourhood, and it's really sad to see that so many of their hardships are being blamed on race. Some of it holds, but some really doesn't. Like, the housing market is pretty hot, and most people in the area are renting houses. And the owners have been selling them. I've actually heard shit like, "the white man's pushing us out"... what? This is happening EVERYWHERE!!!

We need more interracial couples. The more of those there are, the faster the world will turn "beige" and we can all get the hell over ourselves :D.

I agree with everyone 100% here. Reverse racism really pisses me off, yes your ANCESTORS were slaves, but my ANCESTORS didnt have any and they fought on the side that freed yours so get over yourselves! btw I know not all black people think this way, this is directed to the ones who do.

and Replicon I am currently dating a woman from Taiwan, interracial couples are on the rise every year. So dont you worry, some day we will be!

Reverse racism is just as bad, to me, as racism - as if there was really a difference. I agree that many of us need to stop using the past as a means to "get back" at thosee that live in the present. Too many of us (blacks) fall back on the events of the past as leverage, and it makes me sick. I feel the same distaste when I heard blacks talking down to whites (with any feeling of self-righteousness) as I do when whites talk down to blacks. I don't think it gets us anywhere at all - especially when it's coming from those people that are perceived as the "spearheads" of the black community (like whenever Al Sharpton spews that bullshit about how "black people can't be labelled as 'racists' because racism implies a position of authority that is needed to 'talk down' to a person of another color that, by his words, 'blacks don't have in this country". That's bullshit and everytime I hear anyone say that in a debate about racism, I wanna fuckin kick 'em in the throat.

Anyway, with that being said, ignorance to the accomplishments of many blacks is still very high. I haven't seen the commercial that paperdoll is talking about, so I can't comment too much on that, in particular. But, I see nothing wrong with addressing the accomplishments of many blacks, over the years, to those people that are racists, as simply a form of education. It's not always meant to be expressed as a "Hey, look at us, look at us!" gesture, but a way to enlighten those without knowledge of our accomplishments, in the hopes that it might curb the prejudice that still exists in many parts of the country.

Of course, to those that already have no prejudice against blacks, it may seem like a cry for attention, or (to some) supremacy. With (the gist of) that commercial in mind, I don't really know if that was the audience it was meant to cater to. There is a very large percentage of racist people in this country who actually do feel that we are worthless, and have accomplished nothing but the bullshit they see us do on BET and MTV. That's a sad fact of the world, but it something that we ("the black community") have to deal with, and even feel forced to contend with.

When women fought for equal rights, they stood up long and hard to highlight the accomplishments of women, and pulled no stops in making it clear to the world that they were just as capable as men in many areas. Did this outspokenness help or hinder male chauvinism? Who knows? But was it justified? I think so.

And paperdoll, I seriously doubt that racism will ever die out. There are simply too many racists and too many ways of spreading that message (both by keeping the philosophy "in the family" and spreading it throughout their neighborhoods and communities) for it to ever die out. Even without the "push-back" from reverse racism, it may fluctuate, but die out? I seriously doubt it.

Do white supremists (for example) suddenly find themselves "cool" with native americans or middle-easterners, even though there aren't many (if any) commercials out there spouting off about their accomplishments? Nope.

Oneironaut,
I think you may be overly-pessimistic about racism never dying out. Not too long ago the Irish were deeply discriminated against; thought to be inferior, criminals, etc., (think - paddy wagon). I realize that skin color plays a far greater roll in racist attitudes against black Africans than it did the Irish but even the Irish were identifyable by their hair and skin color.

To all the other posters in this thread I have this to say - whenever we react negatively to what we find in others we are nearly always overlooking it in ourselves. It may be expressed in an exaggerated or distorted fashion but most of what we criticize in others is a reflection of ourselves. Especially in issues touching upon race.

Italians, too, were heavily discriminated against in the U.S. about a hundred years ago. The difference is not so much that there is no obvious immediate visible tipoff as to genetic makeup or group affiliation with Italians and Irish, but that they integrated with our society before the politics of group-ism became the norm.

So long as group-ism and coalition-ism remain the powerful political and marketing tools they truly are, racism based on visual cues will not go away. There is too much power and money behind making certain that the divides remain in place.

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton wouldn't have a job if racism against people of African heritage were to go away. That's why they both work so hard to keep us divided. People like them get wealthy by promoting and leveraging racism.

Group politics has become one of the greatest driving forces behind justifying collectivist politics in the US and the world. Group politics is nothing more than institutionalized and formally endorsed (and REWARDED) prejudice and racism.

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Originally Posted by little nemo

Oneironaut,
I think you may be overly-pessimistic about racism never dying out...

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All I can say is that I hope you're right.

To go off of what you and pj were saying, the visual aspect, alone, just seems like the perfect fuel for the fire. It is too easily interpreted by the impressionable - and too easily projected by the ignorant - as the quintessential battle: White vs. Black, Light vs. Dark, Good vs. Evil, etc. etc. The concept of highlighting our 'differences' is just too easily tangible, and I just find it hard to see that completely dying out. I'm an optimist about most things, but that is just one thing that I have a negative outlook on. I hope to be proven wrong, even if not in my lifetime.

You make good points, but something to bear in mind; cultural attitudes accross the board and around the world are in a state of tremendous flux in these times. This is especially true of your own racial demographic here in America. The African American community(s) is radically remaking itself - trying on different modes of perception/expression. This is a period of experimentation, and it's anyone's guess as to what it will lead to, what it will look like when things stabilize and settle down.

It's easy to be pessimistic about the issue of race, but if you look beneath the headlines you can see that we have progressed quite alot already, compared to 50 or even 25 years ago.

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Originally Posted by little nemo

You make good points, but something to bear in mind; cultural attitudes accross the board and around the world are in a state of tremendous flux in these times. This is especially true of your own racial demographic here in America. The African American community(s) is radically remaking itself - trying on different modes of perception/expression. This is a period of experimentation, and it's anyone's guess as to what it will lead to, what it will look like when things stabilize and settle down.

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That's very true. Good point, Nemo.

I was listening to the local college radio station last night and a black dj who plays soul music has a time each week where he discusses a significant black person in entertainment history. This I feel is fine because the kind of music he plays is mostly by black people. On the other hand we have black history month where we endlessly hear about what black people have done. I'm still waiting for white history month, midget history month, and moron history month (all 3 groups have done great things that are important for us to know about since they impact our lives everyday).

They always claim that black people are equal to whites. Then how come if me (white) and and a black person with everything identical were to apply to a college then he would get the spot. Lets say that 4 white people and 1 black person are approximately equal and all apply. The school will accept the black person because he is a minority and then with all their propaganda they send out they can tell prospective students that they are "diverse".

I think alot of black people use their being a minority as an advantage alot of time (I'm not being too negative here, I'm just saying that they are given an opportunity to get more with less work so they do). This makes the black people who do work extremely hard look worse because all the others are built up. Same can also be applied to anyone on welfare.

One thing I hate is something such as the story where they no longer had blind auditions for orchestras (or some musical group) because they needed to hire a certain percent of minorities. Thats like me applying for a jazz band and making them hire me even though I'm not black (black=cool jazz groove, white=square). (Obvously white people can play jazz but it's not the same as black people for whatever reason, kinda like black people and rock, there aren't too many).

I barely hear about black history month now that Im in college, it seems like something that is relegated to middle school and the channels on tv that the age groups watches. So, Im not too bothered that there isnt a white, asian, latino, Native American and all other races month. Its not like they get the month off from work or something, lol.

whats keeping racism alive? middle white america. it scares me. as a minority, growing up in cities that are diverse, I never felt like a minority. for any minority in those cities to complain they are suffering because of skin - get a life.

but then, oh dear, I was visiting my cousin who lives out in middle white america. He's already told me he's one of the only hispanics in his school, and that his school is almost all white. I didn't care, but when I got up there for myself what I saw was 'white school' and then 'black school'. The white school was obviously richer than the black school coming from a poorer neighborhood.

I am not blaming white people for this, so hold on for a second.

Walking through the city, I got some stares. Not bad stares, just, stares of curiosity. As if they have never seen a hispanic in their life. And it scared me, because after 21 years of being a minority in any city - I actually felt like one. Back home most people don't even realize I'm hispanic because im not as dark as mexicans. From what I understood about this city, the racism here is a partially backwards one. Not a hate racism, but an ignorance racism.

All these white people have had very little interaction with all the colors that make up america compared to anyone living in any of the coastal cities. What does 'hispanic' mean to them? Heres what it should mean, nothing much. It felt like to me, that to these middle american whities, that hispanic meant something different, in the same way that a foreigner is different. That this hispanic is 'different'. Not bad not good, just 'different'. The other problem that I saw was, while there were minorities in this city - there was no intergration - you were either in a black neighborhood or a white neighborhood. And maybe some where in between was a little block of hispanics.

Because of historical reasons and the fact that your parents wealth does give you the edge currently based on our system, lets face it, the black neighborhood will always be poorer - if not just straight ghetto compared to the white neighborhood. What does this do? One you have a lot of blacks who think they are poor because they are black and something to do with their relationships with white people. And then you have a whole lot of white people who when they think about minorities - all they can imagine is the ghetto and all those ghetto people.

I have online friends who live in white america, and they all admit they are 'scared' of black people. I've told them their fear of black people is racist, but in their defense, all the blacks are segregated into one little ghetto of strip clubs, gangs, drunken bums and the works.

And this is where backwards racism begins. Blacks who are racist towards whites because of their poorer life, and whites who feel guilty for something they haven't done, or are slightly afraid of all those ghetto people.

Things are very different in a mixed city closer to the US coast. There are so many poor ass white people living in the ghettos, more ghetto than ghetto. And minorities in all professions, from teachers, to police, to government officials, to news casters for any backwards racism to get a stronghold. And even then if there is this backwards racism, you will only see it in the extremities of the city - such as the southside and the estates up on those green hills

btw, apparently its like hispanic heritage month. not that I have any idea what that means. But had I grown up a place where I was just a tiny little dot of ethnicity on the map, and had I always been looked at as being a little 'different', then maybe something lame like a hispanic heritage month would actually mean something to me?

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Originally Posted by Replicon

We need more interracial couples. The more of those there are, the faster the world will turn "beige" and we can all get the hell over ourselves :D
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Yes! I love that!

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Anyway, with that being said, ignorance to the accomplishments of many blacks is still very high........I see nothing wrong with addressing the accomplishments of many blacks, over the years, to those people that are racists, as simply a form of education......a way to enlighten those without knowledge of our accomplishments, in the hopes that it might curb the prejudice that still exists in many parts of the country.

Of course, to those that already have no prejudice against blacks, it may seem like a cry for attention, or (to some) supremacy. With (the gist of) that commercial in mind, I don't really know if that was the audience it was meant to cater to. There is a very large percentage of racist people in this country who actually do feel that we are worthless, and have accomplished nothing but the bullshit they see us do on BET and MTV. That's a sad fact of the world, but it something that we ("the black community") have to deal with, and even feel forced to contend with.

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That's the idea that I got from the description of the commercial. I mean, it's obviously aimed at people that are racist and the idea is to provide them with some knowledge beyond the BET and MTV stuff that they're probably over exposed to.

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Originally Posted by juroara

Walking through the city, I got some stares. Not bad stares, just, stares of curiosity.

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I got the exact same feeling when I went to visit my gf in Taiwan. When I walked with her down the streets of Taipei I got a lot of different looks. Some people smiled at me, some actually ran in to me intentionally to let me know their distaste for Americans.... I think the whole time I was there I might have seen one other white guy, and he was from Europe, lol.

Anyways, I know I am middle class, but my high school was still around 50% minority, which was cool because we all meshed, the only time race was noticeable was at the dances <cliche> white boys cant dance <cliche> ;)

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Originally Posted by juroara

I have online friends who live in white america, and they all admit they are 'scared' of black people. I've told them their fear of black people is racist, but in their defense, all the blacks are segregated into one little ghetto of strip clubs, gangs, drunken bums and the works.

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I find this unbelievable, and I say that having lived my entire life in and around Detroit - a city that actually promotes and takes pride in that image. The only possible way to hold this view is out of complete ignorance. In other words, simple interaction with other human beings proves it utterly fallacious, so I would have to conclude that your friends live utterly segregated lives, either by choice or circumstance.

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And this is where backwards racism begins. Blacks who are racist towards whites because of their poorer life, and whites who feel guilty for something they haven't done, or are slightly afraid of all those ghetto people.

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ALL racism begins with grouping people by genetic or other irrelevant characteristics and then drawing conclusions about them based on that. It is irrational behavior, which is an unfortunate characteristic of all humans.

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btw, apparently its like hispanic heritage month. not that I have any idea what that means. But had I grown up a place where I was just a tiny little dot of ethnicity on the map, and had I always been looked at as being a little 'different', then maybe something lame like a hispanic heritage month would actually mean something to me?

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These 'heritage' months, no matter how good the intention, promote and celebrate ethnic differences and in the end do nothing more than support racist perceptions. The idea that any group with a certain characteristic or genetic makeup should even NEED to have a month of focus to "educate" others (who of course aren't part of that racial group) draws hard lines through societies - lines that don't really exist anywhere but in our minds. Sadly, there are many groups out there who actively PROMOTE fear and misunderstanding because it results in political power.

Even if you could draw general statistical conclusions about a given group of people, anybody who has studied statistics knows that the conclusions have zero relevance when it comes to knowing anything at all about any one element in a sample or universe.

To state it another way. . . the only way to get to know people is one at a time. Anybody with any meaningful experience in life knows this to be true.

Those of you that know me know im white and proud and have good reasons to be, im also sick of this crap on my TV whites have invented an incredible amount of what you use today, and ive never heard of a white asking about white history day or why we havent got 1.
The fact is YOU never were a slave and WE never owned slaves people hundreds of years ago DID and alot of people say that there family were slaves? well did you call the polcie because that suerly is terrbible and if its effecting you today im sure they will have somthing to say about it.
For tooo long have i and others sat back and continuously subconsciously thought of whiets as racist and blacks as victims- get real and think abou the obviouse without the clouded bullshit your fed lately if your white.
Have you EVER harmed a black person or thought of them as any less?
Have you EVER owned a slave
Do you know ANYONE who was a slave?
Im proud of my heritage and im sick of being told that top be proud of being black is great and we should really love it, y'know? and that being proud of white meens your racist- GET FUCKED, iam proud i always will be my mum and dad arnt and my family but ive told my brother to stick his head high and my girlfriend as whent here brainwashed by there school they have NOTHING to be ashamed of.
black, white, purple, peace out brothers and sisters because nothing and no-one can base blame of the past on the future or the hurt of the past as there own.
so whatever you are stick your head high chin up because whatever you are its built in a nd its not going anywhere you might be able to escape it in your mind for a while but the physical genetical fact will always remain its your heritage, dont let that stop you froma chieveing and dont let your own identity be your enemy.
peace.

P.s alot of here are racist, extremely anti white racism to you always seems to meen black man=good white man=bad i look at you as extremely pathetic and a dodgy product of dodgy media.

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Originally Posted by conisag

Those of you that know me know im white and proud and have good reasons to be, im also sick of this crap on my TV whites have invented an incredible amount of what you use today, and ive never heard of a white asking about white history day or why we havent got 1.
The fact is YOU never were a slave and WE never owned slaves people hundreds of years ago DID and alot of people say that there family were slaves? well did you call the polcie because that suerly is terrbible and if its effecting you today im sure they will have somthing to say about it.
For tooo long have i and others sat back and continuously subconsciously thought of whiets as racist and blacks as victims- get real and think abou the obviouse without the clouded bullshit your fed lately if your white.
Have you EVER harmed a black person or thought of them as any less?
Have you EVER owned a slave
Do you know ANYONE who was a slave?
Im proud of my heritage and im sick of being told that top be proud of being black is great and we should really love it, y'know? and that being proud of white meens your racist- GET FUCKED, iam proud i always will be my mum and dad arnt and my family but ive told my brother to stick his head high and my girlfriend as whent here brainwashed by there school they have NOTHING to be ashamed of.
black, white, purple, peace out brothers and sisters because nothing and no-one can base blame of the past on the future or the hurt of the past as there own.
so whatever you are stick your head high chin up because whatever you are its built in a nd its not going anywhere you might be able to escape it in your mind for a while but the physical genetical fact will always remain its your heritage, dont let that stop you froma chieveing and dont let your own identity be your enemy.
peace.

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You are severely missing the point.

maybe he was a little off base, but I dont think he is severely missing the point.

The point of the origional post was the person didnt get why we still have black history month if all the races are suppose to be equal and it was basically keeping race in the minds of people. If you read past the anger of conisag he obviously feels wronged for being labeled as something because he is white...just like minorities get mad for being labled. You see he is saying the same thing as everyone else, which is get over race, it shouldnt matter in this day and age.

If you are still racist (read racist from any race and to any race) then maybe you do need to be tied to a chair and have to watch commercials saying the good things about EVERY race for hours on end. :D

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Originally Posted by tkdyo

You see he is saying the same thing as everyone else, which is get over race, it shouldnt matter in this day and age.

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Yes, but also making assumptions that are innacurate.

"Im proud of my heritage and im sick of being told that top be proud of being black is great and we should really love it, y'know? and that being proud of white meens your racist- GET FUCKED"

That line makes me wonder who is going up to him/her saying "you're proud of being white? RACIST!"

And "im sick of being told that top be proud of being black is great and we should really love it" - like, WHAT????

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but maybe try to look at things from a different perspective. I'll leave it at that.

Hi thanks for your replys, im not racist im very pro "get over the race issue" and im sorry for the anger i came across a bit harsh but im extremely pissed at this whole victim thing, and i just want to be me and forget anything to do with blacks/hispanics we in reality we shouldnt even know eachother exist there was a dam sea in the middle of us lol but we do and it could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how people react and how people are treated.
Peace.

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Originally Posted by conisag

Hi thanks for your replys, im not racist im very pro "get over the race issue" and im sorry for the anger i came across a bit harsh but im extremely pissed at this whole victim thing, and i just want to be me and forget anything to do with blacks/hispanics we in reality we shouldnt even know eachother exist there was a dam sea in the middle of us lol but we do and it could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how people react and how people are treated.
Peace.

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Well you have to realize, conisag, that many of us are still victims of racial injustice. There are a lot of us who still have (metaphorical) scars over the way we, as a people, were treated in the past, because there are so many remnants of that treatment, still in existence to day, especially if you live in the south.
Now, I will agree that many people use that as an excuse to exercise reverse racism. I don't condone that either, but your view that you have "sat back and subconsciously thought of whites as racists," and whatnot, shows exactly the frame of mind that many people are stuck in. Just because you are pissed at that, doesn't mean that many blacks aren't still victims of injustice. It also doesn't mean that ALL whites should be looked at as racists, so don't think I'm advocating that point of view either.

But, like Kichu, I'm kinda wondering what kind of people you are surrounded by where people are coming up to you screaming "You're proud of being white? RACIST!" Where do you live? :wtf:

About black history month and talk about black achievement on television: A lot of that is taken out of context. (Like we said earlier) It's not all about "Look at us! Look at we did! We're so great!" It's about educating a nation that is still partially ignorant to the achievements of blacks throughout our nation's history. It is an attempt to counter-act racism with knowledge. You have to over-look the initial "Oh, they're just getting special treatment" reaction and see it for what it is really meant to be.
On the other hand, it is a double-edged sword. Many people are offended by it (for the reason stated above) and it also fuels racism. I actually don't like the idea of "black history month," and I feel achievements of blacks should be talked about any day of the year, just like the achievements of whites are talked about any day of the year. I think giving it its own month is just another form of segregation and hurts the cause just as much as it tries to help.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I think giving it its own month is just another form of segregation and hurts the cause just as much as it tries to help.

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I agree with most of what you said, but this particularly line is so very true. I think the only one who could argue down that point is Johnny Cockrin (sp?).

idk where the blacks live who still get treated bad for being black, but I hope those places get over themselves like a lot of areas have and just treat everyone like they are human. Racism is out dated and in the global economy we are approaching, people better learn that not everyone has to be the same color.

this part to no one in paticular: I do wonder though, why is racism against a white person reverse racism? Shouldnt it still just be racism? reverse racism makes me think of a happy place where people's negative thoughts about race can be erased from their memories :dreaming:

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Originally Posted by tkdyo

this part to no one in paticular: I do wonder though, why is racism against a white person reverse racism? Shouldnt it still just be racism?

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To answer your second question first: Yes, it is still just racism. That's why I will often use the phrase "reverse racism is still racism," because many people like to try to separate it from "normal" racism.

But to answer your first: What makes it "reverse" racism is the ideology that "since we as a people (blacks) were wronged, first, then our return racism, toward the race that oppressed us, is justified." There are many blacks that live under this sort of philosophy, and I can't completely blame them for being that misguided, but that's exactly what it is; misguidance. To me, it is holding onto a hatred and refusing to make amends with a generation that is (as a majority) so far beyond that initial wrong-doing that to hold that strict a grudge is about as bad as the "normal" racial prejudice (from whites, back then) that sparked the whole thing.

Every person is an individual, and races are not teams. They are just biological classifications. No race has ever acted together as a single unit. Not even anywhere near it. Disliking a person because of skin color is extremely absurd.

I have to mention the most outrageous and funniest racist comment I have ever heard of. It might have never been said, but it still illustrates what racism really is. My brother's friend claims he knew somebody who said he hates Chinese people because of Pearl Harbor and that they should know that we have not forgotten what happened in Vietnam. I think that preposterous comment puts a magnifying glass on how all racism works.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

They are just biological classifications.

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I agree with what you are saying UM, but actually human races cannot be classified genetically. There are a few genes (seven, I think) that control skin color, but within the genome there is more variation within races than between them. For example, since people evolved and have been in Africa for so long, there is extreme genetic variation within "black" people; and any one particular dark-skinned person may actually be closer genetically to a light-skinned person than another dark one.

That's why the recent unfortunate comments by a prominent scientist (even if he did help discover the structure of DNA half a century ago when his mind was still intact) make no sense at all.

I don't know if things like Black History Month are bad or not. I do feel like, Why do they have to act like we need to celebrate it specially?; like there's few enough things we can just think about it once a year.

I think we can all admit who invented every kind of music worth listening to tho.:lol:

You know I agree. It shouldn't EVEN be a question; wether or not black people are any good or not. For fucks sake we're people trapped on a huuuuge round object; And this is how we treat eachother?

You know the advertisement you mentioned was what they call "Politically Correct" A.K.A. hypocritical. They tried to compensate for all the evil done to and thought about black people by showing "black inventions".

Off course this is just fueling a fire. Aware or unaware. Well dude have you seen African culture? Off course they have good stuff. Have you seen European Gothic and Mediterranean culture? Off course they've got good stuff. Have you seen Native American indian cultures? off course they'vre got great stuff. Have you seen persian and arabic culture? Great stuff they've got.

But all of these people, because they are people, have bad stuff too. And guess what: A reasonable conclusion is that ethics are not related in any way to Ethnicity/Race; Off course they're not. And the add you mentioned does put that in doubt again. All you need to draw that conclusion is an I.Q. of at least 80.

It's time we started judging eachother on PERSONALITY, instead of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or anything else besides personality. Individuality and individual responsibility is far fetched in this misguided, frustrated world.

Racism and everything it encompasses are, what I call, tales for the lowly intelligent. That simple. Designed by the Dominator-authorities of our modern, western civilisations to keep us working class and lower class people so busy with fighting racial warfare that we tend to forget who's our REAL enemy; Those forces that devide and rule us.
Well we see how well it works don't we?

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

I agree with what you are saying UM, but actually human races cannot be classified genetically. There are a few genes (seven, I think) that control skin color, but within the genome there is more variation within races than between them.

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Race is still a biological classification. Are you saying there is no such thing as race? That finding would end a lot of the world's problems. What would you say a race is?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Race is still a biological classification. Are you saying there is no such thing as race? That finding would end a lot of the world's problems. What would you say a race is?

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After many many many many more years, perhaps we will all be the same race.

And I hear we're supposed to turn into hermaphodites??? lol

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Race is still a biological classification. Are you saying there is no such thing as race? That finding would end a lot of the world's problems. What would you say a race is?

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You can't define race using "biology" (genetics), that's what I'm saying. There is a spectrum of skin color and other visible features such as eye shape, hair texture, etc. There are no place to draw the lines. People blend into each other (like if you go from northern India to southern, there is a gradual darkening of the skin. Some people in southern india are very, very dark-skinned; while the northerners are pale.) The few genes that code for skin color do not define the whole spectrum, and actually would put people who are less related to each other overall together, if you just look at those genes. So it doesn't make any sense.

Race is a societal construct. There are no "genetic definitions" of race. Yes it should end a lot of the world's problems, but do you think telling people that there is no genetic definition of race will make a difference?

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Originally Posted by Moonbeam

You can't define race using "biology" (genetics), that's what I'm saying. There is a spectrum of skin color and other visible features such as eye shape, hair texture, etc. There are no place to draw the lines. People blend into each other (like if you go from northern India to southern, there is a gradual darkening of the skin. Some people in southern india are very, very dark-skinned; while the northerners are pale.) The few genes that code for skin color do not define the whole spectrum, and actually would put people who are less related to each other overall together, if you just look at those genes. So it doesn't make any sense.

Race is a societal construct. There are no "genetic definitions" of race. Yes it should end a lot of the world's problems, but do you think telling people that there is no genetic definition of race will make a difference?

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It is true that there is a skin color overlap between and among races. When I get a lot of sun, I am darker than a fairly high percentage of people who are considered "black". But what usually defines race is ancestry. There has been a lot of racial mixing in the U.S., so the lines among racial divisions are getting blurred. But when the races were much more isolated, the skin and hair differences were very distinct. Whatever race from back when the distinctions were much more solid is the primary source of what race you are considered to have. But that gets really iffy when your primary ancestry is one thing and your looks are lopsided in the other direction. Lenny Kravitz and Slash are both half black and half white. But Lenny looks black and Slash looks white, so most people would say that Lenny is black and Slash is white. I am not certain, but that is probably what they have on their driver's licenses. I think the same would be true even if they were both 75/25. I don't know what the full test is, but is seems that ancestry is considered first, but looks can override that if they are one-sided enough, though there are exceptions even to that.

I am part Native American. I look a good bit like it when I've gotten enough sun, but ordinarily I look much more like my Scotch-Irish ancestors. But I have a cousin and an uncle who look like they came straight off a reservation. The cousin has just as much native ancestry as I have, but he could pass for full blooded native. I couldn't. And his brother, who is also my cousin and has the same degree of native ancestry, has blonde hair and blue eyes. It is amazing that they have the same two parents.

So racial definitions are getting very blurred and moving somewhat in the direction of being a nonsense concept. But I think we are still at a point where most people are so clearly one way or the other, usually by ancestry as well as looks, that race still exists. It will be cool when trying to define race becomes such a clusterfuck that people forget all about race. That will probably eventually happen in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I am part Native American. I look a good bit like it when I've gotten enough sun, but ordinarily I look much more like my Scotch-Irish ancestors.

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See, I knew we were cousins.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So racial definitions are getting very blurred and moving somewhat in the direction of being a nonsense concept. But I think we are still at a point where most people are so clearly one way or the other, usually by ancestry as well as looks, that race still exists. It will be cool when trying to define race becomes such a clusterfuck that people forget all about race. That will probably eventually happen in the U.S.

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Yes that will be cool; but I think it will take enough generations that we won't live to see it unfortunately.

What I was trying to explain was that you can't take any one group of people and seperate them out genetically. Of course you can look at someone and see that their ancestors were from Africa or Asia, but since there are no "dividing lines" genetically, when divisions between people are based on skin color, it may group people together who are less related than some people outside of the group; likewise, outside of the group there are some people more genetically related to those inside, even without interbreeding between groups. Since people have been evolving in Aafrica for so long, there is much more genetic diversity (like 10 times more, don't quote me) so there are some people of obviously African ancestry who are no more related to some others in Africa than an average European, and an African may be more related to Europeans genetically than other Africans.

Dark skin evolves very quickly in people when they move from one climate to another; I've read estimates that it may take as short a time as 10,000 years. That's how you can get such a wide variation of skin color, while other characteristics stay the same. That's also why it doesn't make sense to divide people up by skin color, because altho it is something easily noticable, it is something that literally is only skin deep. (Not that you should divide people up at all; I meant that figuratively.)

I know it's hard to say that race doesn't exist, based on everything we see happening because of it, but genetically, it doesn't.