Thread: things like this are keeping racism alive.

Reverse racism is just as bad, to me, as racism - as if there was really a difference. I agree that many of us need to stop using the past as a means to "get back" at thosee that live in the present. Too many of us (blacks) fall back on the events of the past as leverage, and it makes me sick. I feel the same distaste when I heard blacks talking down to whites (with any feeling of self-righteousness) as I do when whites talk down to blacks. I don't think it gets us anywhere at all - especially when it's coming from those people that are perceived as the "spearheads" of the black community (like whenever Al Sharpton spews that bullshit about how "black people can't be labelled as 'racists' because racism implies a position of authority that is needed to 'talk down' to a person of another color that, by his words, 'blacks don't have in this country". That's bullshit and everytime I hear anyone say that in a debate about racism, I wanna fuckin kick 'em in the throat.

Anyway, with that being said, ignorance to the accomplishments of many blacks is still very high. I haven't seen the commercial that paperdoll is talking about, so I can't comment too much on that, in particular. But, I see nothing wrong with addressing the accomplishments of many blacks, over the years, to those people that are racists, as simply a form of education. It's not always meant to be expressed as a "Hey, look at us, look at us!" gesture, but a way to enlighten those without knowledge of our accomplishments, in the hopes that it might curb the prejudice that still exists in many parts of the country.

Of course, to those that already have no prejudice against blacks, it may seem like a cry for attention, or (to some) supremacy. With (the gist of) that commercial in mind, I don't really know if that was the audience it was meant to cater to. There is a very large percentage of racist people in this country who actually do feel that we are worthless, and have accomplished nothing but the bullshit they see us do on BET and MTV. That's a sad fact of the world, but it something that we ("the black community") have to deal with, and even feel forced to contend with.

When women fought for equal rights, they stood up long and hard to highlight the accomplishments of women, and pulled no stops in making it clear to the world that they were just as capable as men in many areas. Did this outspokenness help or hinder male chauvinism? Who knows? But was it justified? I think so.

And paperdoll, I seriously doubt that racism will ever die out. There are simply too many racists and too many ways of spreading that message (both by keeping the philosophy "in the family" and spreading it throughout their neighborhoods and communities) for it to ever die out. Even without the "push-back" from reverse racism, it may fluctuate, but die out? I seriously doubt it.

Do white supremists (for example) suddenly find themselves "cool" with native americans or middle-easterners, even though there aren't many (if any) commercials out there spouting off about their accomplishments? Nope.

Oneironaut,
I think you may be overly-pessimistic about racism never dying out. Not too long ago the Irish were deeply discriminated against; thought to be inferior, criminals, etc., (think - paddy wagon). I realize that skin color plays a far greater roll in racist attitudes against black Africans than it did the Irish but even the Irish were identifyable by their hair and skin color.

To all the other posters in this thread I have this to say - whenever we react negatively to what we find in others we are nearly always overlooking it in ourselves. It may be expressed in an exaggerated or distorted fashion but most of what we criticize in others is a reflection of ourselves. Especially in issues touching upon race.

Italians, too, were heavily discriminated against in the U.S. about a hundred years ago. The difference is not so much that there is no obvious immediate visible tipoff as to genetic makeup or group affiliation with Italians and Irish, but that they integrated with our society before the politics of group-ism became the norm.

So long as group-ism and coalition-ism remain the powerful political and marketing tools they truly are, racism based on visual cues will not go away. There is too much power and money behind making certain that the divides remain in place.

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton wouldn't have a job if racism against people of African heritage were to go away. That's why they both work so hard to keep us divided. People like them get wealthy by promoting and leveraging racism.

Group politics has become one of the greatest driving forces behind justifying collectivist politics in the US and the world. Group politics is nothing more than institutionalized and formally endorsed (and REWARDED) prejudice and racism.

Originally Posted by little nemo

Oneironaut,
I think you may be overly-pessimistic about racism never dying out...

All I can say is that I hope you're right.

To go off of what you and pj were saying, the visual aspect, alone, just seems like the perfect fuel for the fire. It is too easily interpreted by the impressionable - and too easily projected by the ignorant - as the quintessential battle: White vs. Black, Light vs. Dark, Good vs. Evil, etc. etc. The concept of highlighting our 'differences' is just too easily tangible, and I just find it hard to see that completely dying out. I'm an optimist about most things, but that is just one thing that I have a negative outlook on. I hope to be proven wrong, even if not in my lifetime.

You make good points, but something to bear in mind; cultural attitudes accross the board and around the world are in a state of tremendous flux in these times. This is especially true of your own racial demographic here in America. The African American community(s) is radically remaking itself - trying on different modes of perception/expression. This is a period of experimentation, and it's anyone's guess as to what it will lead to, what it will look like when things stabilize and settle down.

It's easy to be pessimistic about the issue of race, but if you look beneath the headlines you can see that we have progressed quite alot already, compared to 50 or even 25 years ago.

Originally Posted by little nemo

You make good points, but something to bear in mind; cultural attitudes accross the board and around the world are in a state of tremendous flux in these times. This is especially true of your own racial demographic here in America. The African American community(s) is radically remaking itself - trying on different modes of perception/expression. This is a period of experimentation, and it's anyone's guess as to what it will lead to, what it will look like when things stabilize and settle down.

That's very true. Good point, Nemo.

I was listening to the local college radio station last night and a black dj who plays soul music has a time each week where he discusses a significant black person in entertainment history. This I feel is fine because the kind of music he plays is mostly by black people. On the other hand we have black history month where we endlessly hear about what black people have done. I'm still waiting for white history month, midget history month, and moron history month (all 3 groups have done great things that are important for us to know about since they impact our lives everyday).

They always claim that black people are equal to whites. Then how come if me (white) and and a black person with everything identical were to apply to a college then he would get the spot. Lets say that 4 white people and 1 black person are approximately equal and all apply. The school will accept the black person because he is a minority and then with all their propaganda they send out they can tell prospective students that they are "diverse".

I think alot of black people use their being a minority as an advantage alot of time (I'm not being too negative here, I'm just saying that they are given an opportunity to get more with less work so they do). This makes the black people who do work extremely hard look worse because all the others are built up. Same can also be applied to anyone on welfare.

One thing I hate is something such as the story where they no longer had blind auditions for orchestras (or some musical group) because they needed to hire a certain percent of minorities. Thats like me applying for a jazz band and making them hire me even though I'm not black (black=cool jazz groove, white=square). (Obvously white people can play jazz but it's not the same as black people for whatever reason, kinda like black people and rock, there aren't too many).

I barely hear about black history month now that Im in college, it seems like something that is relegated to middle school and the channels on tv that the age groups watches. So, Im not too bothered that there isnt a white, asian, latino, Native American and all other races month. Its not like they get the month off from work or something, lol.