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I don't see how its much different than the current state ID/social security number system. Your government will control you as much as it see fits until there is a war and a new government arises to control you.
Well there you have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
Good one. Now, do you feel like offering anything meaningful?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic7
We already have the national ID card. Its called your social security card.
You mean they can track me by that little crumpled up piece of paper I've had for about 30 years? :shock: Good, maybe they can find it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
No need. They've been watching you for decades from space and have video footage of where you put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
We arent talking about an ID card with a transponder in it, are we?
Oh, good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus
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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus
Awesome. It won't, however, ever become a necessary ID. The invasion of privacy clause would shoot down any attempt at this before it could even take off.
Still, tracking chips require some sort of power source. That technology is extremely expensive, and I doubt our government would spend millions of billions of their oil-blood money on finding out if I'm going to my female neighbor's house while my wife is at work. The chips, if any at all, are ID chips, and not tracking chips.
Also, I think the claim of increased bigotry is unfounded.
They don't take any power. Its basicly a small chip, then you send a radio signal(or whatever it is) at it and it replies with its number. Its like them little chip you put in your dog or cat, and people scan it and it will give you their address and phone number and who owns them and all that. Its stuff thats been around.
Its not like its broadcasting your position or anything. Basicly you would stick a scanner in a doorway, and its constantly sending out a signal. Then when a person walks in, it will scan them and say, "So and so just walked into the building." Or you build a toll booth and you stick one on there and suddenly you know every person that travels through that toll booth.
At the start your really not going to be losing much privacy at all but as technology goes on and they can build more powerful chips and scanners that go longer distances, eventually you will get to the point where they will be able to know everywhere you go.
Isn't that still invasion of privacy? The American people would never allow something like this to happen.
I really think you overestimate "American people". Remember it's not people who make the big decisions in a government. If it is to be done, I doubt there is much people can do to fight it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
It was included in the patriot act as a slick way to use fear to get people to accept it. Fortunately, the vast majority don't want this to happen; we will have to see if it still goes through, but I think it will. Want it or not, not many people will refuse it.
Currently it is "optional"; meaning if you do not accept it, life will be harder and harder, and as the majority switches over, so does the "optional" part. Ancient tactics that never fail.
Exactly. It was the same with credit cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Never
Has life really changed that much because of the Patriot Act?
Of course they wont allow it to happen, hence why people keep complaining. Hence why Ron Paul is so popular. People don't want this stuff, and they are saying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
Its the culmination of years and years of laws being passed that strip away the freedoms of the people here in the US. The Patriot Act is the final straw, and people are just tired of it. They just had enough of it, and they just keep passing more and more laws, each one worse than the one before it. Lucky the people are not going to take it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
I don't feel like my freedoms are that restricted. But thats just me. You know, there was a time when saying "damn" was too risque for a theater film (Gone With the Wind) and blacks were required by law to drink from seperate water fountains. Our society is looser than ever before, and is getting more liberal with every year
We have laws on the book that says you can be arrested and held forever without a trial if your a suspected terrorist.
We have a law comming into a effect that says everyone needs a national id card, which is ran by the federal government instead of by the stats, and has the chips in we were talking about before.
There are many restrictions on who can own a gun, and where you can bring a gun. There are restrictions on what guns you can own, and some states require you to register them with the government.
The president has admited to using illegal wiretaps to monitor peoples calls and is still doing it.
Everyone is legally forced to give a portion of their earned money to the government to pay for social secuirty, if they want it or not.
We pay huge amounts in taxes.
Many drugs are illegal, even if they cause no harm to anyone but yourself. Carrying even a few ounces of a dug can get you long sentences in jail.
The US has more people in jail than any other country in the entire world.
The government has passed laws dealing with "free speech zone", where they can limit your right to speak your mind in certain areas.
Eminent domain, and its abuse over the years.
Anti smoking laws that force owners businesses to follow the laws if they want to or not.
Laws that forces you to wear seat belts, when it causes no harm to anyone if you don't.
Various restrictions and licenses dealing with your right to travel, and owning a car.
The list just goes on and on. Theres so many restrictions on our freedoms and they keep adding more. You might think some are not as serious as others but they all deal with freedom and how the government restricts them. Lets go over it again, this time I will use the bill of rights to show how everyone of our freedoms have been broken.
1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The free speech zones I listed before, limit our right to speek in some areas. I can find many videos of police tasering and harrassing people who try to peaceably assemble. We have tons of restrictions of what can and can not be said on tv and radio and in the press.
2. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The government is always passing laws to restrict gun ownership. Restrictions on where we can bring them, on who can own them, on which kind we can own. And in many places your forced to register them which is another form of control. Theres has also been many illegal gun confiscations over the years.
3. No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
This one is a little outdated and clearly wouldn't be broken right? Wrong! There are reports of soilders taking over homes and buildings in New Orleans after the flooding there. They just walked in and based their operations inside buildings without permission of the owners of said buildings. Even in a disaster situation it is totally illegal.
4. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Illegal checkpoints are known to be set up in some states, where cars are searched at random. This also deals with the illegal wiretaps the president has admited to.
5. No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The whole terrorist who are arrested without being given a trial falls under this. You might think, "Well they are terrorists." but the laws also says any american citizen can be taken if suspected of being a terrorists.
6. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.
Same as the last one, people being taken and not charged of any specific crime, nor given a public trial.
7. In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
We have all kind of issues with our courts. Especially with judges basicly doing what they want, and even at time ignoring the jury.
8. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted
The death penalty can be considered cruel to many people. There is also the point of all the excessive fines are fairly common now a days.
9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Pretty much everything else not listed that was taken away falls in here. Such as them limiting peoples right to travel. Also using harmless drugs could fall under rights protected by this, yet they are illegal and you can be arrested even while harming no one.
10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
This one is totally ignored. If the constitution doesn't specifcally says the federal government can do something, they are not allowed to do it. Every time you hear someone saying, "Thats not in the constitution." They are breaking this.
There are so many other stuff too. I am just giving some examples here. Maybe you think some of them are good, or maybe none of them bother you, but no one can say we are free. Atleast not compared to when the country was first made. We are no where near as free as they were back then.
This is a good point. I knew these cards weren't gpoing to have GPS in them for that would not only be rediculously expensive, it would require a super-small, self-renewable power source. But, what has just been explained here is a very disturbing reality that is much more probable, should these cards have such chips in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Of course, all that will mean for me is to craft a lead cardcase for my NID lol. There's always a way around the control if youre clever enough
I thought this picture to be befitting.
Very much so. They can keep all their bullshit, the only thing I will miss is Dreamviews....hehe.
if nobody accepts a national ID card, nobody can enforce it on you, PERIOD.
:D LoL!.... but all in all it isnt really a laughing matter. Too close to a realistic picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie
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Originally Posted by ranma187
Indeed. Power by numbers. Civilians could have so many things if we all would stick together. Sadly this is more than difficult achieve. :P
Yaaa. I wasn't kidding. :PQuote:
LoL!.... but all in all it isnt really a laughing matter. Too close to a realistic picture.
:P
Alric, about that list of laws.... I strongly disagree that resticted gun ownership and seat belts being required is an argument against the government. As I see it, these laws are in place to protect the common citizen from his/her fellow common citizen who might turn out to be a nut case. If a mother doesn't think seat belts are important, she will load all her kids into the van and get them all killed in a car crash.
People are unstable. Instability + gun ownership to whoever the hell wants one = death.
But I digress.