We Are Nothing

I've been seriously thinking about this, just hear me out... we think the Earth is so big, but the Sun is several million times the size of Earth, making it a mere dot on the face of the Sun. So, the Sun is unimaginably large. I recently read that there is a star in another galaxy that is several million times the size of the Sun. This makes the Sun a pinhead on this star. This is basically dot-dot-dot-dot. There are probably more stars out there that are even huger. When we think about this, we seem so insignificant. However, we act as though everything is so important. That breakup is so devastating. That fail on the math test is the end of the world. But when you really think about it, that test will mean absolutely nothing to you in 5 years, and means nothing to the Earth. When you die, nobody cares. You're just another number on the obituaries. We should act like the reality, which is that nothing matters at all. When you die, it won't make a difference anyway, cause you'll be dead. If you were a millionaire or were poor, you're still just as dead as the next guy. This makes me change my view on everything, and makes me want to live for the experience. Thanks for hearing me out, and feel free to share your thought on this.

Pff, I'm not nothing, I'm 7*10^27 atoms, take that microscopic world...

Relative physical size determines value?

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Originally Posted by heumy

I've been seriously thinking about this, just hear me out... we think the Earth is so big, but the Sun is several million times the size of Earth, making it a mere dot on the face of the Sun. So, the Sun is unimaginably large. I recently read that there is a star in another galaxy that is several million times the size of the Sun. This makes the Sun a pinhead on this star. This is basically dot-dot-dot-dot. There are probably more stars out there that are even huger. When we think about this, we seem so insignificant. However, we act as though everything is so important. That breakup is so devastating. That fail on the math test is the end of the world. But when you really think about it, that test will mean absolutely nothing to you in 5 years, and means nothing to the Earth. When you die, nobody cares. You're just another number on the obituaries. We should act like the reality, which is that nothing matters at all. When you die, it won't make a difference anyway, cause you'll be dead. If you were a millionaire or were poor, you're still just as dead as the next guy. This makes me change my view on everything, and makes me want to live for the experience. Thanks for hearing me out, and feel free to share your thought on this.

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I agree that nothing matters, but as humans, we will never be able to stop caring about things. Things will always matter to us, but nothing will ever matter to the universe.

Check this out. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKPUYZZbWxs

Yes, we are basically nothing, but while were at it, lets party! :boogie:

We are nothing, but we are everything...

You are the center of your own universe and that's all that matters really...

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

We are nothing, but we are everything...

You are the center of your own universe and that's all that matters really...

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Deepak Chobra is a genius.

His succinctness is befitting of this moment, which is why I used his clip.

You must think otherwise since you are attempting to be funny by blatantly disrespecting him by purposefully misspelling his name...

Real original.

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

His succinctness is befitting of this moment, which is why I used his clip.

You must think otherwise since you are attempting to be funny by blatantly disrespecting him by purposefully misspelling his name...

Real original.

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Sorry im not trying to be funny. His name is foreign and im not good at spelling to begin with,

Neither is This the first time i've heard from him and he seems like a genuinely intellegent person hence me calling him a genius actually when i saw him on T.V. i wanted to get his book and i still do.

Point is my comments were genuine and not some vaine attempt at humeur as you implied and im a notorious bad speller.

My apologies then.

Needless to say, I agree that he is one smart cookie

Why because the universe is so big are we nothing? sure we are small, but we are here unlike we are not here. We are something in a place that is SO big, so we are not nothing. People just like to look at how big things are and think we are nothing, we are a waste of skin, well guess what? we aren't. Like i said already, we are alive right now, so we are not nothing but something.
We will keep on continuing to be something untill we are nothing (dead), and that's when you truly are nothing, is when you're dead and rotting in the earth. Look at the universe and say "wow, that is big" rather then "wow, that is big, i am small, i am nothing...". We are all part of the universe if we are living in here. As little as we are the universe is just space, with lots of big stuff in it and you don't have to be "big" to be something.

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Originally Posted by heumy

When you die, nobody cares.

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speak for yourself :P

yes the earth is a mere speck of dust in the grand scheme of things

that does not make life on earth meaningless or pointless, rather realize how precious life is in the grand scheme of things. we as far as we know, we are a rarity in this universe.

the value of something is not determined by size. rather, how pointless something is depends on how detached it is from reality. in this case, the reality that the cosmos are great. if our lives are detached from that reality, then it can become so pointless.

if our lives are meaningless, that doesn't mean we are. as humans, we can change our lives, and choose to live in ignorance of reality or not.

One's Perception Is Everything!!!!!!

Also everything has a roll, same with us. You can't be absolute garbage because you're so tiny if you have a roll to play.

To put this in a different perspective:

If the Planet Earth were to be suddenly devoid of life, how would that affect the rest of the universe?

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

To put this in a different perspective:

If the Planet Earth were to be suddenly devoid of life, how would that affect the rest of the universe?

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The point is, it wouldn't. The universe would still exist, and will still exist long after the Earth is gone, destroyed from global warming, or everyone on it dies.

Hm, that guy seems to make a lot of nonsense statements. Firstly simple mathematics tells you that 50 divisions would make 1126 trillion cells.

Also the statement 'each cell does six trillion things a second' doesn't mean very much if you're not going to define what a 'thing' is. It could just be collisions between enzymes and substrates or something.

The worrying statement though is that 'each cell knows instantaneously what all the others are doing', which is a lie. There is no communication that links every cell in the body like that. If such a thing were true it's hard to work out why the body would let certain cells develop cancer and form tumours.

My thought about the whole topic; we're very small if you compare yourself to the whole universe, spacially and temporally I suppose, but that's just an issue of scale. What's really important is that you are the only being in the whole universe that is conscious in your body, so everything you do in life is infinitely important really, not the reverse.

Xei, great post. I agree, that guy is a new-age "philosopher" who attempts to spurt out random, often untrue scientific assertions to claim some sort of pseudo-philosophical self-importance to the human body (or rather, justify its importance on a spiritual, perhaps religious level). I'd just like to add that even though no sort of instant communication exists in our body, it couldn't exist at any rate, because information cannot move faster than the speed of light. I don't understand what is so "genius" about making a bunch of convoluted statements which anyone with an elementary education of mathematics or biology can refute (or know, in the case that what he says is correct).

Now what you just said, Xei, that's pretty profound stuff. I agree with you -- on a scale in regards to the universe, we ARE infinitely important, and all of our actions affect the course of the rest of the universe. If you ever have read about existentialism (Sartre, etc.), then you know of how he writes about every person's actions being immensely important to the outcome of mankind as a whole. Every one of our actions defines the actions, the thoughts, opinions, the philosophies of mankind. Our actions are the actions of mankind. To pretend that we are not making exceptionally important decisions to the future of mankind is simply denial.

Turn it around, what if any of those giant things so far away that you talk about were to disappear right now? Would you notice? Would you care? So those things are nothing! :p

The sun is also nothing compared to the rest of the universe... So is our galaxy...

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Originally Posted by wasup

Xei, great post. I agree, that guy is a new-age "philosopher" who attempts to spurt out random, often untrue scientific assertions to claim some sort of pseudo-philosophical self-importance to the human body (or rather, justify its importance on a spiritual, perhaps religious level). I'd just like to add that even though no sort of instant communication exists in our body, it couldn't exist at any rate, because information cannot move faster than the speed of light. I don't understand what is so "genius" about making a bunch of convoluted statements which anyone with an elementary education of mathematics or biology can refute (or know, in the case that what he says is correct).

Now what you just said, Xei, that's pretty profound stuff. I agree with you -- on a scale in regards to the universe, we ARE infinitely important, and all of our actions affect the course of the rest of the universe. If you ever have read about existentialism (Sartre, etc.), then you know of how he writes about every person's actions being immensely important to the outcome of mankind as a whole. Every one of our actions defines the actions, the thoughts, opinions, the philosophies of mankind. Our actions are the actions of mankind. To pretend that we are not making exceptionally important decisions to the future of mankind is simply denial.

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i love existentialism in its complete avoidance of the new-age and pseudo-science. In particular the moral implications of it, especially as an atheistic philosophy to start with, yet entirely humanist. Anyone interested should read Sartre's "Existentialism and Humanism", which presents a perfectly concise idea of some of the basics, and how they relate to our common lives. How we can actually use this philosophy in our lives. This said however there is often crisis of the existentialist, in the realisation of the importance of the self at times.

It also offers a perfect response to the problem of how small we are and so on, and truly answers the original post's problem, without implication of God, or in fact anything but the self.


Certainly I prefer that kind of true philosophy to alot of that kind of new-age assertion based pseudo-scientific stuff around nowadays.

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The sun is also nothing compared to the rest of the universe... So is our galaxy...

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The sun is everything when we compare it to ourselves however, which is surely how we should be doing things? The universe itself is not an intelligent being; in a sense it is pointless, as to have a 'point' you must be conscious, so comparing things to the universe has little value.

Wasup; thanks. :)

I was introduced to existentialism by a friend studying philosophy about six months ago, and it's something I've definitely adopted, yeah. I like the phrase that the universe is 'mute' to our questions; there are no grand answers waiting for us apart from those which we make for ourselves. It's a much better and more liberating way of living your life compared to letting yourself be restrained by the contradictory words of Gods.

:shock:Its even worse when, in consideration that the space between atoms is 99.9% nothingness. Then the ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS 99.9% nothing. :shock:

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Originally Posted by heumy

I've been seriously thinking about this, just hear me out... we think the Earth is so big, but the Sun is several million times the size of Earth, making it a mere dot on the face of the Sun. So, the Sun is unimaginably large. I recently read that there is a star in another galaxy that is several million times the size of the Sun. This makes the Sun a pinhead on this star. This is basically dot-dot-dot-dot. There are probably more stars out there that are even huger. When we think about this, we seem so insignificant. However, we act as though everything is so important. That breakup is so devastating. That fail on the math test is the end of the world. But when you really think about it, that test will mean absolutely nothing to you in 5 years, and means nothing to the Earth. When you die, nobody cares. You're just another number on the obituaries. We should act like the reality, which is that nothing matters at all. When you die, it won't make a difference anyway, cause you'll be dead. If you were a millionaire or were poor, you're still just as dead as the next guy. This makes me change my view on everything, and makes me want to live for the experience. Thanks for hearing me out, and feel free to share your thought on this.

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:clap:

That is how it is, yet everyone is so caught up in their own little lives they forget how little their lives mean.

This is the main reason why we should do whatever it is that we wish to do, whenever it is we want to do it, we should not be held down by rules or anything of that sort.

I don't mean go out and kill everyone, what I mean is, go and ask that girl out, go and eat that extra hamburger, go and have fun dancing even if you do look like a fool, be a fool! have fun!

anyways yea I have this view on life pretty much 100% of the time, I hardly take anything serious anymore I have sorta that whole

'Whatever man' attitude going on lately, like thats ok, if that breaks its ok, if i didnt pay my bill on time its ok....yada

we just gotta let go sometimes and say, its all gonna be ok, cause were microbes in comparison to the universe.

I don't care if I'm a 'microbe in comparison to the universe', or if 'my decisions don't affect the universe'. The affect ME. And I'm more concerned about myself than how little my actions affect some planet millions of light years away or someplace I'll never know or need to know.

Selfish bastard.

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Its even worse when, in consideration that the space between atoms is 99.9% nothingness. Then the ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS 99.9% nothing.

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Yeah, because the entire universe is solid matter, isn't it? -_-

That's wrong anyway. There isn't any 'space' between atoms in matter, because atoms are defined by the region of space of their electron clouds. Atoms aren't like billiard balls, it's true, but if you try and make one atom intersect with another, they'll repell, so for all intents and purposes there's no space between them. If you're talking about how much space the nucleus takes up, well the diameter's about 1000th of the diameter of an atom, so by volume that would be about 1,000,000,000th, which is 100.0% empty space. But such figures are irrelevant anyway, they just arise from new agey misinterpretations of what constitutes matter.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

To put this in a different perspective:

If the Planet Earth were to be suddenly devoid of life, how would that affect the rest of the universe?

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It would effect it vastly, infinitely so given a long enough time span.

Or none at all, from a deterministic point of view; since it was bound to happen anyway. In the case of weighing the possibility of destroyed verses not in a probablistic sense though, chaos theory teaches us that the effects of even something so insignifigant will have extreme outcomes.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Yeah, because the entire universe is solid matter, isn't it? -_-

That's wrong anyway. There isn't any 'space' between atoms in matter, because atoms are defined by the region of space of their electron clouds. Atoms aren't like billiard balls, it's true, but if you try and make one atom intersect with another, they'll repell, so for all intents and purposes there's no space between them. If you're talking about how much space the nucleus takes up, well the diameter's about 1000th of the diameter of an atom, so by volume that would be about 1,000,000,000th, which is 100.0% empty space. But such figures are irrelevant anyway, they just arise from new agey misinterpretations of what constitutes matter.

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No, actually I don't agree. The current definition of matter amongst the scientific community is all fermions, or particles with half integer spin. This means that atoms are composed of very little matter and their mass is actually even largely due to energy and not matter. Most of the mass of an atom actually comes from the W and Z bosons, which are the quanta of the weak nuclear force. I think the 'atoms are mostly empty space' interpretation is pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It would effect it vastly, infinitely so given a long enough time span.

Or none at all, from a deterministic point of view; since it was bound to happen anyway. In the case of weighing the possibility of destroyed verses not in a probablistic sense though, chaos theory teaches us that the effects of even something so insignifigant will have extreme outcomes.

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It would probably not affect the rest of the universe at all, seeing as life on Earth so far hasn't. And if life on Earth were devoid of life (which it will be eventually), we won't be around to see if it does affect the rest of the universe, so it doesn't matter.

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No, actually I don't agree. The current definition of matter amongst the scientific community is all fermions, or particles with half integer spin. This means that atoms are composed of very little matter and their mass is actually even largely due to energy and not matter. Most of the mass of an atom actually comes from the W and Z bosons, which are the quanta of the weak nuclear force. I think the 'atoms are mostly empty space' interpretation is pretty accurate.

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Well, that's one definition, but there isn't really a 'definitive definition', it's a loosely defined concept.

But 'atoms are mostly empty space' isn't what was said anyway; what was said is that there is a large 'space between atoms', which is not right, there is a large space between nuclei, or a large space between the lumps of mass.

Although again that's not entirely true, as electrons have mass, and the electrons are smeared over a very large space.

Either way though, it's not really of much consequence, just an issue of technicalities in definitions. But we are really continuously solid for all intents and purposes I think, because it takes way more force than we experience on our level to overcome the electrostatic repulsions.

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Originally Posted by heumy

It would probably not affect the rest of the universe at all, seeing as life on Earth so far hasn't. And if life on Earth were devoid of life (which it will be eventually), we won't be around to see if it does affect the rest of the universe, so it doesn't matter.

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How do you know life on Earth hasn't affected the universe? We've affected it fairly significantly within the (about) 60 light year radius that our electromagnetic transmissions have been able to travel in so far. How do you even expect to judge what other so far unknown effects we are having?

I often think about the millions of people that lived in times before me. I was reading Thoreau again the other day and was forced to stop and really consider. That was 150 years ago when he wrote this book; yet I feel like I know him at the time.

I often think about how people went about on trivial business with the notion that they would live forever, and they do it still. For them it is all about getting ahead and getting rich. Work more and more hours of your life away all in trade for hollow objects and the even more hollow pride you get from your work ethic.

I hope that someday the human race will actually strive for a more harmonious advancement with nature, though I will not be alive to see it. Will the day ever come when we no longer live in a world of deception? I doubt it. Thank goodness for science and philosophy at least; that which accounts for what advancement we have made in "truth".

The irony of the "We are nothing" argument is, the moment you make it you've bestowed upon the cosmos that very significance against which "We are nothing." The scale of the cosmos is irrelevant except to an observer. Without us, there is quite literally 'no thing,' no objects, forces or properties independent of the unitary field of being. You can imagine a universe devoid of sentients, but what you're imagining is the univese from a human perspective with no humans in it: a nonsense proposition.

I'm not saying humans are more important than stars or galaxies, but that the universe depends equally on everything to exist in its current state, regardless of consciousness, longevity or scale. What could be more obvious? The existence of the present requires everything present.

Thats reaaly a good idea max. it really does make you think. only unlike you losers my name will live on forever

Hey it's the flea market guy...

It's just like, it's just like...

a mini mall!

While the universe is much bigger but Earth is really big compared to us, does that mean we are nothing because we are so tiny, and Earth is extremly big compared to our little selves? also, while it may, or may not be the same thing, but on earth we cause changes here, so i will take a guess and say "yes" to us effecting the universe in someway aswell.

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

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Thanks for posting that, or i would never have found this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Wow...intresting.:shock:

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Thanks for posting that, or i would never have found this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Wow...intresting.:shock:

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That is fucking outstanding.

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

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It's a pretty simple issue.

Yeah, I know. you should see how some people tried to argue against it in my right/left brain thread.

But, that's neither here nor there. ;)

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

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EAST SIDE FOR SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE!!! Pour a drink out for our underestimated left handed g thugs!!!! Oddly enough, I am extremely right brained, and from Atlanta, east coast USA.

That doesnt mean you and I are homies, got it?

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

We are nothing, but we are everything...

You are the center of your own universe and that's all that matters really...

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My inner consciousness is really horny all the time lol.

She said that the left hemisphere is the one that thinks in language.

Thats wrong though, some people have portions of language on both sides.

Though I did like the lecture =P

Ah, another day, another young mind encounters Nihilism.

For a truly humbling image... Hubble Ultra Deep Field: The most important photo ever taken

Might I suggest you look existence in a different light...

Do not look at the brilliance of the universe and see yourself as being separate and small from that which is unfathomable and large. The very atoms that make up your body were once in the core of a star. For millions of years, atomic fusion went to work creating atoms that have coalesced to form 'you' for this fraction in time. Every part of you that exists was at the start of this universe, at the root of all things, at the core of a super-star after the Dark Age, blown off in the coronal discharge of supernova, and spent countless aeons floating around in a planetary disk before our beautiful blue planet even took shape.

You are no more separate from the majesty of this Universe than your foot is a separate part of your body.

Then watch this video by Thunderf00t. The part I'm talking about most is the last minute of the 10 minute video.

To paraphrase what is relevant:

"Look at yourself in the mirror. For billions of years those particles that are currently looking back at you have circulated in the Universe. But for a brief moment they have coalesced in you. Rejoice in the impressive instant until they dissipate whence they came. Delight that you are a spark of life in the Universe. Sparks can not burn forever. Our time is finite. This gives our lives meaning. This gives our lives purpose. This gives our lives urgency. Live life today - savor it."

If you guys liked what you heard i read from the coments to visit a site that has a 1 hour interview of her talking about her expierience.

http://digg.com/podcasts/Shrink_Rap_...Interview_Show

Just about to listen to it myself.

People are biologically selected to care a lot about themselves - it's an evolutionary advantage.

Humans love to delude themselves into thinking they are everything, and mean everything to everybody,it is how we live, and what our society is built upon, our consciousness of ourselves and peers.

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Originally Posted by ray

Humans love to delude themselves into thinking they are everything, and mean everything to everybody,it is how we live, and what our society is built upon, our consciousness of ourselves and peers.

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What is so different between her thinking we are everything, and you saying we are nothing? you need to come up with something better then that.
:lol:

i think the OP was a very emo outlook on life, think of it like this

you obviously exist right? so you have a purpose, that 1 failed math test could have been the difference between your A and the B that you recieved instead, so that little points taken away from your GPA made the colledge decide on the same candidate as you but with a higher GPA instead, so now he has a future and not you. You can only live in your world you do not live on some of those HUGE stars, ants are tiny as hell but yet do they not exist, are they nothing? to them they live their lives how they know how to live, you cant really get into this discussion without the whole "what is the meaning to life question" because theoretically, we all die so no matter what we do in the end it will mean nothing to anybody which is where it gets into the different religions and beliefs

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Originally Posted by themuffinman

i think the OP was a very emo outlook on life, think of it like this

you obviously exist right? so you have a purpose, that 1 failed math test could have been the difference between your A and the B that you recieved instead, so that little points taken away from your GPA made the colledge decide on the same candidate as you but with a higher GPA instead, so now he has a future and not you. You can only live in your world you do not live on some of those HUGE stars, ants are tiny as hell but yet do they not exist, are they nothing? to them they live their lives how they know how to live, you cant really get into this discussion without the whole "what is the meaning to life question" because theoretically, we all die so no matter what we do in the end it will mean nothing to anybody which is where it gets into the different religions and beliefs

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Exactly, that's an excellent point, that no matter what your social status is, or who you are, or what you did in your life, you will still die, and then nothing will matter. So I say, live life while you still can, and enjoy the fact that you are here, you are conscious, and you are living and affecting the now.

see i take it as a half full or half empty thing, its all a matter of perspective, if you think you are nothing then go on thinking you are nothing, but if you think you mean something then you do. People who think their worthless are because all they do is bring people down with them , like the phrase misery likes company, by the way the whole half empty half full thing, i came up with a logical answer.

if your pouring/drinking/lessening the ammount in the glass, then its half empty, if you are adding stuff to it then it is half full, and if somehow half of the space in the glass was occupied then clearly the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

If you pull your perspective back far enough you'll stop seeing half-full half-empty and start seeing there's only ever one glass..

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/.../Dichotomy.jpg

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

If you pull your perspective back far enough you'll stop seeing half-full half-empty and start seeing there's only ever one glass..

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Yeah, but that one glass is still half-empty or half full.

Both.

I don't think it matters what you view the cup as...cause someone drinks it eventually and you end up with an empty glass =P. And if no one ever drinks it, then it is a worthless glass :banana:.

Lesson? You always end up with nothing.

Turning back to it's original literal meaning to drive a point home doesn't exactly hold water. Pardon the pun. ;)

There are two ways to look at any given situation.

Both and Neither are true... They just are...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/...yqsSZdnchR.jpg

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Originally Posted by SolSkye

Turning back to it's original literal meaning to drive a point home doesn't exactly hold water. Pardon the pun. ;)

There are two ways to look at any given situation.

Both and Neither are true... They just are...

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But isn't what I said true if even not taken in the literal meaning?

Either way, no matter how you look at something, you use it up and its over, if you don't use it then it is meaningless in the first place.

Anyway the analogy is broken anyway since the cup is never half full or half empty, it usually somewhere in the high or the low.

No. That would be misidentifying yourself and your existence with an object. Step back a little further...

This is an intriguing video. I do agree with his idea of fundamental "I-Amness," but I don't think it existed before the Big Bang began, seeing as there was no life, so no one could think "I am." Also, I don't agree with an "edge" to the universe, or that "nothing" existed before the Big Bang. The point is, there has to be something for something else to be created, and the universe goes on infinitely, because once we reach the supposed "end," what is there? What if we reached that edge? What would there be? There has to be something, for us to continue into.

That there is dark matter

once you there their is more when you take a step at the end of the universe you now are making a new borderline

There is no edge... only unending mind...

Of course, there is no end to the universe, because SOMETHING must exist, and nothing is not possible, because when we step outside of the supposed end, then there will have to be something. Besides, the space mission to travel 5 million trillion light-years to the edge of the universe isn't looking so good.