Thread: We Are Nothing

Its even worse when, in consideration that the space between atoms is 99.9% nothingness. Then the ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS 99.9% nothing.

Yeah, because the entire universe is solid matter, isn't it? -_-

That's wrong anyway. There isn't any 'space' between atoms in matter, because atoms are defined by the region of space of their electron clouds. Atoms aren't like billiard balls, it's true, but if you try and make one atom intersect with another, they'll repell, so for all intents and purposes there's no space between them. If you're talking about how much space the nucleus takes up, well the diameter's about 1000th of the diameter of an atom, so by volume that would be about 1,000,000,000th, which is 100.0% empty space. But such figures are irrelevant anyway, they just arise from new agey misinterpretations of what constitutes matter.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

To put this in a different perspective:

If the Planet Earth were to be suddenly devoid of life, how would that affect the rest of the universe?

It would effect it vastly, infinitely so given a long enough time span.

Or none at all, from a deterministic point of view; since it was bound to happen anyway. In the case of weighing the possibility of destroyed verses not in a probablistic sense though, chaos theory teaches us that the effects of even something so insignifigant will have extreme outcomes.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yeah, because the entire universe is solid matter, isn't it? -_-

That's wrong anyway. There isn't any 'space' between atoms in matter, because atoms are defined by the region of space of their electron clouds. Atoms aren't like billiard balls, it's true, but if you try and make one atom intersect with another, they'll repell, so for all intents and purposes there's no space between them. If you're talking about how much space the nucleus takes up, well the diameter's about 1000th of the diameter of an atom, so by volume that would be about 1,000,000,000th, which is 100.0% empty space. But such figures are irrelevant anyway, they just arise from new agey misinterpretations of what constitutes matter.

No, actually I don't agree. The current definition of matter amongst the scientific community is all fermions, or particles with half integer spin. This means that atoms are composed of very little matter and their mass is actually even largely due to energy and not matter. Most of the mass of an atom actually comes from the W and Z bosons, which are the quanta of the weak nuclear force. I think the 'atoms are mostly empty space' interpretation is pretty accurate.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

It would effect it vastly, infinitely so given a long enough time span.

Or none at all, from a deterministic point of view; since it was bound to happen anyway. In the case of weighing the possibility of destroyed verses not in a probablistic sense though, chaos theory teaches us that the effects of even something so insignifigant will have extreme outcomes.

It would probably not affect the rest of the universe at all, seeing as life on Earth so far hasn't. And if life on Earth were devoid of life (which it will be eventually), we won't be around to see if it does affect the rest of the universe, so it doesn't matter.

No, actually I don't agree. The current definition of matter amongst the scientific community is all fermions, or particles with half integer spin. This means that atoms are composed of very little matter and their mass is actually even largely due to energy and not matter. Most of the mass of an atom actually comes from the W and Z bosons, which are the quanta of the weak nuclear force. I think the 'atoms are mostly empty space' interpretation is pretty accurate.

Well, that's one definition, but there isn't really a 'definitive definition', it's a loosely defined concept.

But 'atoms are mostly empty space' isn't what was said anyway; what was said is that there is a large 'space between atoms', which is not right, there is a large space between nuclei, or a large space between the lumps of mass.

Although again that's not entirely true, as electrons have mass, and the electrons are smeared over a very large space.

Either way though, it's not really of much consequence, just an issue of technicalities in definitions. But we are really continuously solid for all intents and purposes I think, because it takes way more force than we experience on our level to overcome the electrostatic repulsions.

Originally Posted by heumy

It would probably not affect the rest of the universe at all, seeing as life on Earth so far hasn't. And if life on Earth were devoid of life (which it will be eventually), we won't be around to see if it does affect the rest of the universe, so it doesn't matter.

How do you know life on Earth hasn't affected the universe? We've affected it fairly significantly within the (about) 60 light year radius that our electromagnetic transmissions have been able to travel in so far. How do you even expect to judge what other so far unknown effects we are having?

I often think about the millions of people that lived in times before me. I was reading Thoreau again the other day and was forced to stop and really consider. That was 150 years ago when he wrote this book; yet I feel like I know him at the time.

I often think about how people went about on trivial business with the notion that they would live forever, and they do it still. For them it is all about getting ahead and getting rich. Work more and more hours of your life away all in trade for hollow objects and the even more hollow pride you get from your work ethic.

I hope that someday the human race will actually strive for a more harmonious advancement with nature, though I will not be alive to see it. Will the day ever come when we no longer live in a world of deception? I doubt it. Thank goodness for science and philosophy at least; that which accounts for what advancement we have made in "truth".

The irony of the "We are nothing" argument is, the moment you make it you've bestowed upon the cosmos that very significance against which "We are nothing." The scale of the cosmos is irrelevant except to an observer. Without us, there is quite literally 'no thing,' no objects, forces or properties independent of the unitary field of being. You can imagine a universe devoid of sentients, but what you're imagining is the univese from a human perspective with no humans in it: a nonsense proposition.

I'm not saying humans are more important than stars or galaxies, but that the universe depends equally on everything to exist in its current state, regardless of consciousness, longevity or scale. What could be more obvious? The existence of the present requires everything present.

Thats reaaly a good idea max. it really does make you think. only unlike you losers my name will live on forever

Hey it's the flea market guy...

It's just like, it's just like...

a mini mall!

While the universe is much bigger but Earth is really big compared to us, does that mean we are nothing because we are so tiny, and Earth is extremly big compared to our little selves? also, while it may, or may not be the same thing, but on earth we cause changes here, so i will take a guess and say "yes" to us effecting the universe in someway aswell.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Thanks for posting that, or i would never have found this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Wow...intresting.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Thanks for posting that, or i would never have found this.

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Wow...intresting.

That is fucking outstanding.

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

Originally Posted by SolSkye

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

It's a pretty simple issue.

Yeah, I know. you should see how some people tried to argue against it in my right/left brain thread.

But, that's neither here nor there.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

That was amazing!!!

Finally, someone explains the left/right-brained argument who knows exactly what they are talking about...

RIGHT Brain represent... EAST SIDE!!!

EAST SIDE FOR SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE!!! Pour a drink out for our underestimated left handed g thugs!!!! Oddly enough, I am extremely right brained, and from Atlanta, east coast USA.

That doesnt mean you and I are homies, got it?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

We are nothing, but we are everything...

You are the center of your own universe and that's all that matters really...

My inner consciousness is really horny all the time lol.

She said that the left hemisphere is the one that thinks in language.

Thats wrong though, some people have portions of language on both sides.

Though I did like the lecture =P

Ah, another day, another young mind encounters Nihilism.

For a truly humbling image... Hubble Ultra Deep Field: The most important photo ever taken

Might I suggest you look existence in a different light...

Do not look at the brilliance of the universe and see yourself as being separate and small from that which is unfathomable and large. The very atoms that make up your body were once in the core of a star. For millions of years, atomic fusion went to work creating atoms that have coalesced to form 'you' for this fraction in time. Every part of you that exists was at the start of this universe, at the root of all things, at the core of a super-star after the Dark Age, blown off in the coronal discharge of supernova, and spent countless aeons floating around in a planetary disk before our beautiful blue planet even took shape.

You are no more separate from the majesty of this Universe than your foot is a separate part of your body.

Then watch this video by Thunderf00t. The part I'm talking about most is the last minute of the 10 minute video.

To paraphrase what is relevant:

"Look at yourself in the mirror. For billions of years those particles that are currently looking back at you have circulated in the Universe. But for a brief moment they have coalesced in you. Rejoice in the impressive instant until they dissipate whence they came. Delight that you are a spark of life in the Universe. Sparks can not burn forever. Our time is finite. This gives our lives meaning. This gives our lives purpose. This gives our lives urgency. Live life today - savor it."

If you guys liked what you heard i read from the coments to visit a site that has a 1 hour interview of her talking about her expierience.

http://digg.com/podcasts/Shrink_Rap_...Interview_Show

Just about to listen to it myself.

People are biologically selected to care a lot about themselves - it's an evolutionary advantage.

Humans love to delude themselves into thinking they are everything, and mean everything to everybody,it is how we live, and what our society is built upon, our consciousness of ourselves and peers.