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I am warning you that the end of this video is very disturbing and chilling. This is a call from a man trapped in the south tower during the 9/11 attacks.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYZqQWfGIJg
Also, a video to put this into perspective (2nd Tower Hit)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMseIGe-YvE
This was a day out of hell. Imagine actually being there and hearing a deafening scream of an engine before an earth-shaking explosion and fireball. And the tower collpase... wow.
Death isn't something to fear, it's just a cycle.
Naturally those that haven't introspectively looked within to realize that, would have a natural aversion to death.
On the other hand, think Phoenix, Ouroboros, or any of the other mythological characters that show us the cyclical nature of time and life...
If this thread does nothing but attempt to foment fears of death then I say dump a grand canyon's worth of shit directly on top of it...
Death is nothing to EVER EVER EVER be afraid of... it just means rebirth...
http://www.lyfe.freeserve.co.uk/art/photobrowne.jpg
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/...48/Mundane.png
Translation: Clear your mind of all mundane thoughts, and you will find even fire cool.
This is a very famous old quote from a buddhist monk whose temple was being burned to the ground by samurai, and right after saying this he burned to death.
He understood death more in having died that his life resonates forward to the present. Give that a thought over before any of you post a reply...
Fear begets fear and hate begets hate...
Death isn't something to fear...EVER...
I enjoyed the fact you quoted mythological characters to prove reincarnation. Your other evidence was something a monk said when under threat of death.
All you've done is prove that humanity wants life after death. That humanity created myths to 'prove' rebirth, that a monk who was about to die said it, all just confirms that humanity has an innate fear of death, and that they perpetuate either reincarnation in your examples or an afterlife in Judeo-Christian religions.
Based entirely on empirical evidence, I would suggest that death is the end. That there can be no concious cognative thought after the brain ceases to function (which biology proves it does after death) and that therefore we simply cease to be anything more than a lifeless body.
There may be reincarnation, but I can do nothing more than assert the facts of what I know. The empirical evidence is that we cease to be. Reincarnation, afterlife, both are utter conjecture and heavily influenced by an innate fear of death, the unknown.
Whether I'm afraid of death is irrelevant, but you're promoting an assumption as fact.
fucking hell, i was ok until the end when he says "oh God, oh!" and damn tower collapses, shit that brought a tear to my eye, poor guy...:(
I swear some people at my school NEED to watch this in an assembly or something. Some kids at my school either think it was even a big deal or some of the Muslim kids have said that America deserved it. They should show that video and ask why anyone thinks that man and his co-workers, and the thousands of others, deserved to die and leave their families without a husband/father. How can killing thousands of INNOCENT CIVILIANS like them by justified by anyone.( then again I'd show that same video to American officials and ask them why that is wrong that mass bombings of Iraqi civilian villages( death toll well over 100,000) can be justified.....
Quite the contrary... you claim the lack of scientific empirical evidence of life after death as the proof your viewpoint is right. There's alot of truth in the mythos that you arbitrarily write off. Needless to say, I'm closer to the monk's viewpoint at this point in life so I know that death is cycle as much as you know you'll exhale your next breath...Quote:
Originally Posted by Siиdяed
Call my bluff with a colt 45 to the temple and I'll prove you wrong...
Been there... done that...
Ah. You have faith that there is reincarnation and nothing will change your stand-point on that. I however am taking the more logical thought-process of believing what facts I have instead of making wild assumptions. I think death to be the end until proven wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
Are you suggesting that to prove your utter belief in life after death I should shoot you in the head?
That would taking advantage of someone's very human need for something beyond death. There's no reason I would do that.
It's 'write off', by the by.
What I meant with the colt 45 example was, that even if I knew in 1 minute you'd shoot me in the head I'd have nothing to fear or worry about. I'd actually look forward to it in the sense you look forward to going to place you've never been before. Death doesn't mean the end. That's an absurdist assumption. You are here now and time is a human construct... that means you are here eternally... linear causality is a manmade construct to make sense of an otherwise paradoxical cyclical nature.
My advice to you is delve a little deeper into yourself... once you do, there is no question without answer...
Good day :)
I agree that there is the possibility of life after death. But so far all you have are assumptions. Science dictates that death is the end. Until you or anyone else can come up with any empirical proof beyond folklore and 'delving a little deeper into yourself' (the mystical equivalent to 'look over there!') then that is the view we should maintain.
The body is the temple from which all perceptions are gained and experienced. I cannot empirically pass on anything to you which you yourself don't decide to strive for...
empiricism cannot ever explain the anomaly of consciousness which shows the smoking gun of the assumptions that go into science. They use consciousness to make theories but would prefer consciousness didn't exist because they can't explain it.
The ghost in the machine is eternal. Mystics are more adept in such things than scientists. I don't go around telling a scientist where his formula is off, where does he get off telling a mystic where his observations of consciousness are wrong?
Right-alligned thinkers prefer to study the unexplainable anomaly of consciousness while Left-alligned thinkers prefer the cold dry results of empiricism, even though they used consciousness to draw their conclusions...
Catch 22's across the board...
Ah. One massive case of 'personal experience' in other words.
Fantastic.
ah but SolSkye,science may not be able to explain exactly how consciousness came about, but we do know you require a functioning brain to be conscious. Take out a mans frontal lobe and he will be without emotion of any kind, you have damaged his consciousness their. The brain is necessary for consciousness, when you die it rots away. I know you'd love to believe your life carries on forever, is those who are religious do, but there isn't much to support it. Also even if you are reincarnated, i assume you agree you would not keep your memories or who you are, so you would not know if you had been reincarnated. YOUR particular consciousness would be gone either way, i don't remember any former life's, do you?
Please view my vid I just posted on Perspective's of Perception...
Perhaps's you have something to add?
Perhaps include a transcript? I would find it far easier to simply read your thoughts that listen to you talking about them.
In that case do a search on any of the multitude of threads I've written on this very topic... Perception Vs. Realty...
Alright, I have no idea why you said that death isn't something to be afraid of, as it was relevant to the point I was making. It wasn't so much death as a 110 story building collapsing on a traumatized office worker after a jet slammed into the side of the building as a result of an unknown religious holy war. Really, I think you may have had that post saved to a word document before you decided you needed somewhere to copy+paste it.
Sure, it's all fine an dandy not to fear death, but what if you looked out the side of your office window leagues above the ground at dizzying heights, and suddenly see an airliner approaching the building with a deafening scream as it smashes 10 stories below you, and you fall to your floor as the windows blow out and you feel the entire building sway and then explode in a cataclysmic fireball, and then spend the last hours of your life on the phone with an officer who can't do anything for you, sitting on the windowsill outside your office and seeing people jumping to their deaths, and then seeing another jet slam into the adjacent tower and feel the heat from the explosion as glass and twisted metal explode outwards, and after trying to hope you might be saved, have the entire building above you start rumbling and collapse floor after floor after floor after floor full of people...
And then you die.
I think you really need to sort out your references too, since I think that besides your argument being totally irrelevant as well as pointless, is innacurate.
Really, you should be telling this to him, well, he being about to die and all, and you typing this on a computer in middle-class America.
I just can't imagine that you would be thinking this if you ever found yourself on the 100th floor of a building in a raging inferno, and your only choice was to jump out of a window. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
He would take a "colt 45 to the temple" happily enough. Though obviously it's easy enough for him to type that as a middle-class American sat at home on a computer.
I'm not overly concerned with how he would feel in such a situation. It's his belief that science can be surpassed by 'delving deep inside youself' that I reacted to.
I don't find anything disturbing about that video really. He died relatively quickly and painlessly.
He didn't jump out of a window. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by kichu
This was horrible. I listened to it three times untill I got it. Now, I wonder what happened. Was that the plane that killed him, or the building collapsing? And what did the operator say after that call?
Yes, cuddly they shoud show that at an assembly. And who are the muslim kids to say that "America deserved it."? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That guy deserved that? Go watch that video, and then if you still think that, look at what America is doing to shape itself out. And then if you STILL, for only god knows why, THEN you can say that, but expect everyone to hate you. You live in the country. Go back to Iraq or wherever they are from and look at how bad they treat their people, and tell me that America deserved it.
Thats awesome, but of course we want to prevent killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
I heard it like 3 years ago. It was pretty sad.
America deserved it as a people or as a government, AmazeO?
It was a tragic event that sparked hysteria throughout the US and fuelled the idea of a 'war on terror'.
Out of interest, what would you say America is doing to 'shape itself out'?
^^
O o i know!
Flattening Iraq so that there can be no further attacks from them.....:?
Though i think the large bombings stopped now, that was a few years back, now a days we are building them schools and such, getting the local population to trust you and value your help minimizes the chance that civilians in Iraq will get so angry at their friends/families dieing and join extremist organizations.
And Sindred, the first result on the search "what is america doing to get back in shape": http://www.shapeup.org/shape/steps.php
Um you have the story completely wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A...4%90%E1%BB%A9cQuote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
I don't really think so. Yeah, he did die, when he was crushed by 10000 tons of twisted steel, but read my post above to try and put yourself in his ordeal. I think one of the scariest things that could happen to me in a skyscraper is a plane crashing into the floors below me. I find it kind of sad that you don't feel bad for him when his last words were screaming OH GOD... OH-(line cuts dead)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick
The building collapsed and killed him. At the beginning of the video there is a triangle indicating his position. I don't think he was so much crushed as fell with the top part of the building until it started to pancake, and then he died.Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSomeGuyXx
I agree this should be shown at an assembly, or played over a school PA if they do an announcement for a moment of silence. And to the conspiracy theorists, I really, really think you should leave it be. Bush stretched it way too far and tripped over himself into a pile of manure in trying to justify this issue, but seriously, there were no bombs in the building, and there were two planes. Radical idea I know, but there is some video and eyewitness evidence to support it.
Really, really scary, especially for the people on the plane, hearing the engines whining louder and louder, all the pressure in the cabin being jarred, objects floating in the air, your stomach in your throat, skyscrapers flying past your window, WTC coming up fast, knowing that this is it and your life is over (No comments on reincarnation please) Making the last call to your loved ones...
I find it ridiculous that there is such a title as "conspiracy theorist" like they were all true, or someone was constantly trying to find a conspiracy.
We need conspiracy theorists. People to niggle at what we consider fact. They might be wrong most of the time, but it's important that they're there, and this - undeniably tragic and horrifying as it is - does not change that.
The whole incident was tragic. But no-one denies that. The severity of 9/11 has been made clear. I do not think assemblies to Americans about how bad 9/11 was would contribute to anything, except further perpetuate the state of fear and suspicion against all things Middle Eastern it caused in the first place.
I agree, but when I see comments on YouTube that sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Siиdяed
"Look at the sides of the building you can see the bombs exploding as it falls srusly"
How
Would
They
Know
What
Would
Happen
It's not like they're experts on the subject of building collapse, really. I bet any person studing the effect of that could tell you why it looked the way it did, instead of blaming Bush just because. No wonder he's insane, everyone has had him under a microscope slide since 9/11. Instead of underresponding, he overreacted, that's all.
And really, some people go so far as to blame the architecture of the building as structurally unsound
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING? YOU THINK IT'S SAFETY TESTED FOR JET LINERS SMASHING INTO THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING?
and then say that Bush did it on purpose. You know what, the government is behind everything. Meteorites, 9/11, Freemasonry, religion, Microsoft, Nazism, aliens, global warming, pollution, stock markets, mass media, the internet, the microchip, aurora borealis and solar flares. Now, there is such a thing rational debate, but with just a tiny bit of research a lot of conspiracies could be disproved.
The majority of them are batshit insane, agreed. But it's important we have the freedom of speech to do so, and the curiosity of mind to investigate them.
The rational, intelligent and sensible of the population (US citizens read as 'foreigners') have the sense to ignore the more unbelievable conspiracies.
I would rather converse with a foreigner than an American sometimes. Especially Europeans, I find them a lot less paranoid and ignorant. But Americans are okay too, it's jsut they can be really ridiculous sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siиdяed
Everyone shits themselves over 9/11. It was a terrorist attack, people died, we understand. No one deserved to die.
But seriously, 9/11 is a small spec in the world's problems. People are always like "oh, what a poor innocent man, he died, he had small children".. There's worse shit out there. What's that one group of people, the ones who are in Africa, and take people prisoner and torture them for hours, untill they're begging for death?
Those people lived in poverty their whole lives, just to be tortured and then shot to death. This guy coughed threw smoke for about 5 minutes, then fell to this death, most likely dying on impact, with only a few moments of pain. At least the terrorists didn't waltz in there and torture every single person to death.
Not to say that 9/11 wasn't a big deal, just.. there's more brutal and disgusting things happening outside of our country. Sometimes it seems as though half of our population doesn't even know that there's a whole world out there, not just our country.
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO
Sooo.....what exactly are you trying to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD
That, because the world is full of horrible things, discussing 9/11 for the atrocity it was is....what...stupid?
That isn't to say that what you stated in your post wasn't correct...but what was the point?
He was suggesting 9/11 was over-rated. Much like you could argue Lady Diana's death was over-rated.
I'm edgy on either subject.
Sure, compared to greater evils, outrage over 9/11 could be seen as "over-rated" (I guess?) but I believe it's because it hits closer to home. I seriously doubt that many people would care less about things that happen overseas, but yea, I suppose the reaction would be a little weighted, toward the home team.
I don't think it necessarily means its "over-rated," because how can you "rate" outrage over something so horrible? I think any level of it is understandable.
Mmm. Probably my own opinion. Well put.
US' opinion on 9/11 now? Still haunting people's minds, or is it mostly washed over now?
The point of my post was this...
9/11 was tragic, yes. There are worse things in the world. I really don't like it when people are like.. "omg, footage of 9/11" "9/11 call, VERY DISTURBING".
It's like, fuck guys, it was a terrorist attack, not some fucking celebrity drunk outside of a night club. Leave it be. Everytime someone stirs up a stupid 9/11 call, it's just another reason for everyone to get all stupid over it, and for someone to come along, claiming it was an inside job, etc etc.
And besides that, if you haven't checked lately, that was 7 years ago. 7. I was 10 years old when that happened. People need to learn to move on, and the more people keep bringing it up, instead of bringing up more recent, and even more terrible things that aren't happening in America, it makes the United States look even more ignorant than it already is.
So yes, on a public dwell-on-the-past scale, it's over-rated.
People watched Cloverfield and complained that a demolishing building looked like how the WTC demolished, and were angry. That answer your question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Siиdяed
Really, how many ways can you destroy a skyscraper? It's like demolishing skyscrapers is taboo now, even in movies. What a load of crap. People flip out over 9/11 all the time. Really, Americans can be pricks sometimes. We go to war in other countries, but when Pearl Harbor happens, we're so pissed off we sh** our pants and obliterate Japan. Same with 9/11. People wanted to personally shoot any Muslim in the face. It's this scapegoat ideaology that somehow we can avenge things and set it right, but what we really do is trash other countries. In Cloverfield, you didn't even have to guess that people were just looking for any skyscrapers of similar height, or any other reference to 9/11.
You just have to be around some people to hear how this thinking goes.
"Dude, I say we just nuke Iraq and get the f*** out of there. I mean, they did it to us, man... They're getting it easy, and if Bush had half a damn brain in his head he would have found Bin Laden and killed him. Everyone there is going to blow themselves up anyway so why don't we do it? 'Cause the governments got no balls, and if it had any balls we would have creamed Iraq and all the other Muslims by now, and the Jews. I say we just take over everything there since they're not in condition to run their own f***ing country, man."
I'm not for Bush, but seriously, my head would have exploded by now with all the cartoons, ads, jokes, satires, documentaries, etc. over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. It's not even funny anymore. Really, stop! Just stop! Please! Stop! There is not a joke God could put on this Earth to make anything relating to Bush funny again, ever. Ever. I'm sick of all the anti-government crap, police brutality, authoritarian regime rebellion CRAP.
I don't want to see another music video critisizing the government. I am so SICK of all this paranoia, like our fucking soil is corrupt or something. Try going to Germany and trying out the officers there. In Venezela you'll cross the street to avoid a cop. They just take your money. We get pissed when someone gets tasered. Let me tell you something: You pull a gun in any other country and they'll shoot you. Cops lose their lives every f***ing day because they're trying to give somebody a second chance, and then the criminal has the nerve to sue, and gets away with actually getting the case to court. There is no drug problem in China. You know why? Every user is dead in a few weeks. Executed. Bye bye acid trip. People want the government to legalize PCP like the regulations are the problem. Then a guy goes and throws a f***ing car into a house. Our prisons are literal hotels. Our government is democratic and supports voting and equality. There is an actual minimum wage. There is social security and entitlements.
I can just picture the music videos critisizing injustice and authority, with their weird/abstract gas masked police officers throwing tear gas into a crowd of rioters and having little children holding guns, then a montage of corporate bloodied hands and the FBI carting away random people. I want to see your idea. WHAT KIND OF VISION DO YOU HAVE? LA-LA LAND? God! All you have is a couple of bags of coke, a van, and musical instruments, and then you proceed to somehow hope that the government will fall and everything will be cheese and crackers. I see how your most devout followers have it all figured out, smoking pot and not doing sh** for nobody. People don't even have to try and survive in this country. There are literal vans that bring you food. Then you go on about the Jews because it's the latest trend, hating Jews. If there were one people on Earth I would deem most harmless, it would be the Jews. Then people sit back in the movies and laugh at people getting shot in the face. And then they get pissed off because their phone breaks and curse the company, the parent company, the manufacturer, the product and the idea of a cell phone.
Sorry for my rant. I just had to get a little of that out.
...so your point is?
We are ungrateful as a society, and equivalent to a spoiled brat compared with the rest of the world. I mean, immigrants are pretty much the only people who appreciate the oppertunities here, and we get racial and hateful with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
Okay, I wasn't trying to pick on you or anything, just your rant was just that... a rant. No identifiable conclusion kinda confused me, but there you go. :P
Most people are ungrateful as a society, but in many ways society isn't perfect, at all. In comparison to other cultures Western society is definately more lenient, but still it is far from perfection.
Er... as someone who has MUCH experience with immigrants (my high school now, at least 20/30% Asian... other high school 40% middle-eastern) that's not entirely true. Some come here to take advantage of the system, some come here to leave their problems behind in some other country, and when they're here (a good majority of them) take it just as for granted as us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Jeez, if I had been awake enough to make a perfect post on my feelings, this would be it, :clap: Vance.
And on that note time to go collapse onto my bed.
Yeah, I know... There are some people who excitedly tell you that they got away from paying for a pair of socks by getting the customer satisfaction refund and keeping the socks. I think we have to look on the bright side too, since it's American trust that makes refunds like that possible, same with store returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
That answered my question. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
Oo0o could you back these claims up? Sorry I'm just tired and bored....
That's kind of impossible. I could definitely show you instances of it, but you're asking me to post many, many instances. You can do the searches yourself... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by malac
you can blow up the twin towers in the game Red Alert 2. Came out a year before, in fact, if you really wanted to, i THINK you can blow them up by planting bombs at the space with an crazy bomb guy( who is supposed to be Iraq/Iran, eastern countries) or if your playing as Iran( i think it was) you could actually use suicide bombers to blow it up. Was that game taken out of USA stores?
Oh hey also, so this guy was in the FIRST tower right? Is the " Oh God, oh" at the end the fact he sees the other plane coming to hit the second one or does the first tower fall just as that happens and so he is saying it because the tower he is on is collapsing, or both?
Watch the video, the tower collapses as he says Oh God (1st tower)Quote:
Originally Posted by cuddleyperson
Of course its overrated, (seeing how the U.S doesn't care what they blow up, rather when they get blown up. Ex Hiroshima, and Nagasaki Nuke:200,000+ deaths, Twin towers attack:2000+ deaths)
But it has no relevance to the thread.
The story isn't wrong. It's a true story from hundreds of years ago(1582 to be exact). The picture of the guy in Vietnam, and the old japanese story's only connection is the idea of a buddhist monk burning to death. Sorry for any confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamworld
Oh sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SolSkye
Wow, once i saw it was near the end and the words "Oh God Oh" i knew it was going to be bad, my heart raced really fast the second i heard him yell....don't wanna imagine what it must go in the mind of someone knowing they will die. But still, there are worse things happening the other side of the world. Can be sad but not too sad.
You know...this is sad and he is dead 7 years ago, but at the end of the day we forget this like it never happened and continue on with our lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
They are no different really, put them in our position, and us in theirs and it's the same exact thing. We would appreciate the oppertunities here, and they will get all racial and hateful with us.
This is how the world works, be thankfull you're on this side and not that side.
edit- btw this is kinda OT but when people say "you should not feel down because the other side of the world is worse", while that's true that's not right to tell someone their problems mean squat because someone elses problems are worse, problems are problems. The world bites everyone in the butt, but just because it bites others more doesn't mean you have no right in expressing what's bothering you.
Quote:
At least the terrorists didn't waltz in there and torture every single person to death
Got to love those optimistic people. But too much optimism can seem, just wrong. That is a bizaree statement. Like atleast the towers didn't fall down after 10 planes hit it. yeah, go the optimism.....
I don't really care about people being a conspiracy theorists or seen as a dellusional person, I just look at the information and judge the information firsthand and leave people out of it. I don't bother calling anyone anything insulting like that. I think that would be insulting to be called that even if they were wrong atleast they are trying.Quote:
We need conspiracy theorists.
You make a good point but for some parts I agree with amazedxd. People does keep mentioning this event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
Why do radical Muslims hate us so much? (Other than the war on Iraq, which happened after 9/11)
Besides, not that I am advocating the use of nuclear weapons, but the only reason they went through with that attack was that they know that the retaliation would not destroy them entirely.
I just don't see what they have to complain and preach over in Baghdad when they clearly provoked the war.
"we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized and displaced.
I couldn’t forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.
The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn’t include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn’t respond.
In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.
This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr. did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children also in Iraq as Bush Jr. did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq’s oil and other outrages."
Well that's how Osama Bin Laden feels...
Although what he did was terrible it gives an insight into why he did it.
Well, why the heck are they blowing themselves up in marketplaces then?
Nothing justifies the killing of innocents.
Sometimes, like in in war, it is unavoidable but otherwise it is.
And instead of peacefully coming to this nation and asking for help, and thusly gaining popular international support and recognition, he decides to alienate all but the most radical.
Smart move.
If he'd have blown up The Statue of Liberty the French would be in Iraq with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagea
Probably wouldn't have killed even 100th of the people either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
That's not really the point. He could have set up another plane to do that, bombed it, or reassigned North tower to Statue of Liberty, or the Pentagon, or the failed flight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alextanium
It would have been symbolic, rather than catastrophic.
Which is the way most terrorist attacks are anyways.
More about the political, economic and etc. results than actual loss of life.
You think this is sad? Why does America go to war then? It creates millions of these horrible scenarios... at this moment Iraq is probably hell on earth. And yes, american citizens helped to create that hell, probably out of ignorance, but it's never too late too realize it, so it won't happen again in the future.
What country is America going to invade next? Iran? Or doesn't Iran have enough oil.. lol I bet America is going to have another 9/11 just when America is about to invade Iran. And then go like! "LOL OMG THEY BOMBED OUR TOWERS AGAIN! NOW WE HAVE TO STEAL ALL THEIR OIL, MURDER ALL THEIR PEOPLE AND BOMB ALL THEIR HOUSES!!"
Sometimes America really scares me... what if they discover oil here in belgium? Will my house get bombed? Will my family get murdered? I mean, I would probably never even see the oil, but still get killed because of it?! What is going on in this world...
Fuck... America really goes far for just some stupid oil.. I'll start praying to God they never find oil here or my family will get slaughtered.. this is the world we live in today, a world of fear created by America. If you don't fear the evil terrorists bombing random places, you'll still have America invading random countries. Better start praying they don't find any oil anywhere near you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
It was never about the oil. It was a failed prediction that all the thousands of bluffs made by Hussein were true. Maybe they were, but until we invaded we were being threatened with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. So tell me, if someone is threatening to kill your sister, even though it might be a bluff, albiet repeated a hundred times, what would you do? And besides, you really need to get your facts straight. The war in Iraq is what made all the other Arab countries stop giving us oil. We lost more than we gained, so please, don't say the U.S. is just an invading oil junkie.
But the US IS major Oil junky. Bush has many connections with Oil companies? Remember the Electric car in the 90's? We had already solved the Oil issue. People Loved the electric car but it was destroyed because People lied saying that they weren't good cars. How about all these motors i see on youtube that run on magnets alone? We haven't needed oil for years.
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Originally Posted by ranma187
Being an oil junkie and invading other countries with our army and having Americans die every day are two different things.
So if you say we consume a lot of oil, yes, naturally, we are also the biggest at a lot of other things too.
If you say we rob other countries naked for this oil when they could have good business, no.
Canada would already belong to us if we did things that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vance
True dat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Don't forget about Mexico.
But oh, we don't want their problems...
*Shudder*
Go ahead DV users. Keep making my country out to be a organized crime unit. I'm serious, keep it going. It still doesn't change the fact that the rest of the world isn't doing jack shit about it. Fucking spectators. Spectators with 20/20 hindsight.
Calm down...
:rolllaugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind