What do you think is the best form of government?

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Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

I was referring to my society, not America.

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But Scotland isn't a dictatorship..

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No, it is not a pointless argument. You said many times, and in one paragraph many times in a row, that war is never justified. Yet you said in some other places that war efforts are justified when they are done in self-defense, and you said the war in Iraq was justified in the beginning. More contradictions.

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Don't put words in my mouth. I don't think war is justified. If I was America's president, I wouldn't have invaded Iraq. But it's the country's right. Just like I'm against religion, but realise it's people's right to have it.

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Communism is too about community ownership, and you even said it was several times, though you kept contradicting yourself.

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Go learn what communism is.

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That does not answer my question, and my answer to you is the law. The law is not fool proof, but we have laws, enforced laws, that provide a great deal of protection. Your constitutional monarchy would not have that.

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Costitutional monarchy laws are enforced just like capitalistic laws - maybe even more.

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You kept saying what you did not know about American culture. I haven't said shit about Brazilian culture except that a lot of the women are hot. I did say a few things about the Brazilian economic system, and obviously it has historically not been capitalistic enough.

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You know shit about Brazil. Don't talk about it.

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I only talk like that to people who act like you. I think it's hilarious that you are so jealous of my country and act the way you do about it. When people get as insulting as you do about my country, I know why they are doing it, and I will aim for the weak spot every time.

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No, it's not a weak spot. You're just so plainly dumb, so downright ridiculous, so brainwashed that you cannot bear the idea that your country is full of shit. That downtoned image of yours is magnified when you think people who dislike america are jealous. It's just like some time ago when men said women were jealous of men's having penises. Ignorance.

To think of it, saying that if I dislike America means I'm jealous is a logical fallacy, called irrefutability. Go check that.

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Wolves have it in them to work for a small group for the sake of maintaining the group. It is how they evolved. Humans don't have it in them to work all day five days a week just for the benefit of the entire nation, unless they are fighting a war or something, which they also get paid for doing. You said you agree with that.

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Don't bend what I said. I said that your "ubercapitalist" country wouldn't be making war if it hadn't economical interest behind it. Refute that.

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I ignored all I've already answered.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't think war is justified. If I was America's president, I wouldn't have invaded Iraq. But it's the country's right. Just like I'm against religion, but realise it's people's right to have it.

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It's a country's right, but it is not justified. Well then, yeah man.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

I don't think the US was wrong in invading Iraq at first. Iraq started a war (though it could have been forged by the US), so it's America's right to counterattack.

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But it's not justified. :uhm:

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Go learn what communism is.

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Okay. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism Hey, that's what I said it means.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Costitutional monarchy laws are enforced just like capitalistic laws - maybe even more.

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I know you understand my question, and I know you are deliberately dodging it. I didn't ask if they were enforced or to what extent they are. I asked HOW they are enforced. I said a small parliament is too easy to threaten and/or pay off. What else do you have to back up your repeated assertion. Do you really need the question explained to you any more?

I also asked you what was so good about the constitutional monarchies that have existed. Can you answer that?

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

You know shit about Brazil. Don't talk about it.

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1. Hot women (some)
2. New capitalism after ages of too much state regulation

I posted an article backing the second. Do you disagree with the first one? Saying I don't know shit does not qualify as a counterargument.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

No, it's not a weak spot. You're just so plainly dumb, so downright ridiculous, so brainwashed that you cannot bear the idea that your country is full of shit. That downtoned image of yours is magnified when you think people who dislike america are jealous. It's just like some time ago when men said women were jealous of men's having penises. Ignorance.

To think of it, saying that if I dislike America means I'm jealous is a logical fallacy, called irrefutability. Go check that.

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Stop acting so jealous.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Don't bend what I said. I said that your "ubercapitalist" country wouldn't be making war if it hadn't economical interest behind it. Refute that.

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I refuted it by saying you don't have evidence and by explaining the real reasons for the war. Refute them. You also said this...

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

I don't think the US was wrong in invading Iraq at first. Iraq started a war (though it could have been forged by the US), so it's America's right to counterattack.

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:chuckle:

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

I ignored all I've already answered.

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How does that corner feel?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's a country's right, but it is not justified. Well then, yeah man.
But it's not justified. :uhm:

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Take it like this. Person A goes and hits person B in the face. Although violence is never justified, person B isn't completely wrong in hitting person A back. But then person B starts hitting person A and won't stop. Silly. One may even ask if B didn't induce A to hit him, so that he could get a good fight.

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Okay. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communism Hey, that's what I said it means.

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Try an encyclopedia.

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I know you understand my question, and I know you are deliberately dodging it. I didn't ask if they were enforced or to what extent they are. I asked HOW they are enforced. I said a small parliament is too easy to threaten and/or pay off. What else do you have to back up your repeated assertion. Do you really need the question explained to you any more?

I also asked you what was so good about the constitutional monarchies that have existed. Can you answer that?

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Big parliament, capable of temporal full block ofthe monarch's actions. It's not like e.g. the army will do things just because the monarch says so - they'll obbey consittution. It can very unlikely be abused, but the person must corrupt the entire country first.

And, concerning the monarchies that existed, I could go on and flesh out about the amazing advancements they had i nrelation to their age, but it's gonna take too long, and from previous experience I know you won't take it anyway. Take the major civilisations of ancient times, and the amazing feasts they achieved.

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1. Hot women (some)
2. New capitalism after ages of too much state regulation

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1. I agree with it.
2. That article is bullshit, as I have already said, more than once. It's somerandom reviewer of the cold war who knew nothing of brazil that went on and wrote it. Never, my friend, never trust a sole source, especially for politics. State regulation was back in the 1920s, and hell was it good for our economy. After the goddamn capitalist crisis, the government saved our economy.

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Stop acting so jealous.

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Irrefutability. Anything I say you'll go and call me jealous. You're so close-minded to challenging of your beliefs that it pains. Fuck you, in the kindest way possible.

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I refuted it by saying you don't have evidence and by explaining the real reasons for the war.

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So America isn't capitalist? That's nice news! And if it is so damnedly capitalist, what's the reason behind the war? Oh my that's like your biggest contradiction ever. And you just tried to dodge it.

Repeating what I've saidmillions of times, those "real reasons" are justifications for war. The real reasons are other, capitalist ones. Money-interest ones.

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How does that corner feel?

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Feels like being asked the same questions again and again. It only shows you lack arguments.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Take it like this. Person A goes and hits person B in the face. Although violence is never justified, person B isn't completely wrong in hitting person A back. But then person B starts hitting person A and won't stop. Silly. One may even ask if B didn't induce A to hit him, so that he could get a good fight.

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So it would not be justified, but it would be just partly right. You said earlier that it would be right, not just partly. You are really confused on this. Perhaps you should stop digging your hole deeper.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Try an encyclopedia.

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Oh, all of those definitions from all of those dictionaries are wrong. :rolllaugh:

Only encyclopedia definitions count, huh? Well then...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9117284/communism

http://www.bartleby.com/65/co/communism.html

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Big parliament, capable of temporal full block ofthe monarch's actions. It's not like e.g. the army will do things just because the monarch says so - they'll obbey consittution. It can very unlikely be abused, but the person must corrupt the entire country first.

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So in other words, what would enforce the constitution other than a small parliament that can be paid off and/or threatened is... nothing. Okay, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

And, concerning the monarchies that existed, I could go on and flesh out about the amazing advancements they had i nrelation to their age, but it's gonna take too long, and from previous experience I know you won't take it anyway. Take the major civilisations of ancient times, and the amazing feasts they achieved.

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So your answer to what was so damn good about history's constitutional monarchies is that some people who lived under them accomplished some amazing feats? Well jumping Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, let's get us a government like that!

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

1. I agree with it.
2. That article is bullshit, as I have already said, more than once. It's somerandom reviewer of the cold war who knew nothing of brazil that went on and wrote it. Never, my friend, never trust a sole source, especially for politics. State regulation was back in the 1920s, and hell was it good for our economy. After the goddamn capitalist crisis, the government saved our economy.

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Even if that article is wrong, there is something the Brazilian government has not been doing right with its supposed capitalist system. Capitalism works when used in its true form. I hope you are wrong. I was getting hopeful for Brazil. You do want Brazil to come out of its financial slump you said it exists in, don't you?

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Irrefutability. Anything I say you'll go and call me jealous. You're so close-minded to challenging of your beliefs that it pains. Fuck you, in the kindest way possible.

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You shouldn't let your jealousy eat you up like that.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

So America isn't capitalist? That's nice news! And if it is so damnedly capitalist, what's the reason behind the war? Oh my that's like your biggest contradiction ever. And you just tried to dodge it.

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I don't know what possessed you to pull those bizarre claims out of your ass. Are you high on something? You must be thinking of a conversation you had with your imaginary brother.

The reasons behind the war: enforcement of ceasefire (Yep, the ceasefire existed, and the Hussein regime violated it on several terrorism counts for 12 years), spreading of democracy and capitalism to very backward ass and impoverished region that breeds suicide terrorists with stone age mentalities (They have a democracy now, and the people vote in higher percentages than Americans, even in the face of death threats.), attempted collection of WMD's from a suicide terrorist government (as reported by many, many sources), overthrowing of a suicide terrorists government (mission accomplished), pressure surrounding governments into dismantling of WMD programs (worked on Libbya), liberate a nation from nightmare government that engaged in genocide (mission accomplished), give terrorists a scary reason not to attack the United States (no domestic attacks from foreign terrorists since 9/11/01).

Now, finally, explain to me why those reasons do not add up to justification.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Repeating what I've saidmillions of times, those "real reasons" are justifications for war. The real reasons are other, capitalist ones. Money-interest ones.

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I just went through the list of things that were necessities and called for war. Let's see if you can refute them. Repeating your mantra about oil conspiracies you can't prove will not qualify.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Feels like being asked the same questions again and again. It only shows you lack arguments.

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You should look in the mirror when you say that. You seem to think this is a game of dodgeball. I have been on point, and I have answered your questions and given you arguments you cannot counter. I am looking forward to watching you say a bunch of dodgy, off the wall nonsense again. This is really a riot. :chuckle:

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So it would not be justified, but it would be just partly right. You said earlier that it would be right, not just partly. You are really confused on this. Perhaps you should stop digging your hole deeper.

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...

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Oh, all of those definitions from all of those dictionaries are wrong. :rolllaugh:

Only encyclopedia definitions count, huh? Well then...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9117284/communism

http://www.bartleby.com/65/co/communism.html

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:thumbup:

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So your answer to what was so damn good about history's constitutional monarchies is that some people who lived under them accomplished some amazing feats? Well jumping Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, let's get us a government like that!

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Well, at least we can be sure it works.

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I don't know what possessed you to pull those bizarre claims out of your ass. Are you high on something? You must be thinking of a conversation you had with your imaginary brother.

The reasons behind the war: enforcement of ceasefire (Yep, the ceasefire existed, and the Hussein regime violated it on several terrorism counts for 12 years), spreading of democracy and capitalism to very backward ass and impoverished region that breeds suicide terrorists with stone age mentalities (They have a democracy now, and the people vote in higher percentages than Americans, even in the face of death threats.), attempted collection of WMD's from a suicide terrorist government (as reported by many, many sources), overthrowing of a suicide terrorists government (mission accomplished), pressure surrounding governments into dismantling of WMD programs (worked on Libbya), liberate a nation from nightmare government that engaged in genocide (mission accomplished), give terrorists a scary reason not to attack the United States (no domestic attacks from foreign terrorists since 9/11/01).

Now, finally, explain to me why those reasons do not add up to justification.

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You still didn't explain how your oh-so-capitalist country would invade Iraq without economical interest.

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I just went through the list of things that were necessities and called for war. Let's see if you can refute them. Repeating your mantra about oil conspiracies you can't prove will not qualify.

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Repeating your mantra about how America is the world's hero doesn't make it true either.

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You should look in the mirror when you say that. You seem to think this is a game of dodgeball. I have been on point, and I have answered your questions and given you arguments you cannot counter. I am looking forward to watching you say a bunch of dodgy, off the wall nonsense again. This is really a riot. :chuckle:

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Well, if you like to compare it to dodgeball, then it's like being shot balls in the very same direction all the time. ;)

Checkmate. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Checkmate. :wink:

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1) I did go on and skip points I've already refuted. Read previous posts if you want your answer.
2) You take arguing like a chess game, a battle. That is so damn immature. You value the act of arguing more than what's being argued. Lol. It explains why you've been so bitchy about it.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

1) I did go on and skip points I've already refuted. Read previous posts if you want your answer.

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I looked. They are not there. We both know that.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

2) You take arguing like a chess game, a battle. That is so damn immature. You value the act of arguing more than what's being argued. Lol. It explains why you've been so bitchy about it.

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:rolllaugh: You're joking, right? Go back and look at the things you said in this thread and think about just how much of a mature non-battle your part of the dialogue has been.

But any way, checkmate. Good game.

Grow up.

I think we can agree war is a concept for retarded humans. Seriously, going to war killing off a whole country just because one idiot flew into a tower? Don't you see the madness that's going on?

Imagine a crazy american flying into a chinese tower, and as responce the whole army of China invading America, throwing over your goverment and taking its place, stealing all your resources and bombing your biggest cities, killing your family and friends, just because of that one crazy american?! All that misery and chaos and all those killings, all that suffering, just because of one crazy american?

War is for the suicidial retarded people among us... too bad they insist on taking the non retarded innocent people with them too. Fcking retards are the cause of all evil. if someone would invent a pill against retardism, all the world problems will be solved in an instant.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Grow up.

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Hey, I didn't challenge you to give the weakest response possible. Don't feel like you have to do that.

Chaybachayba, war is sometimes necessary, as Kromochio both agrees and disagrees. It is not about destroying nations. It is about changing them.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

War is for the suicidial retarded people among us

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I'm assuming this comment was a cheap crack at soldiers like me? If so, go fuck yourself. If it wasn't, my bad.

As to the rest of your post, which was overshadowed by the section I quoted, your logic is flawed. It wasn't a group of crazy Arabs that attacked our country. It was a gigantic, organized group of crazy Arabs. All of the Taliban wanted that to happen, and much, MUCH more to happen. Now their organization and abilities to take on such an attack are no more. You should be glad.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

As to the rest of your post, which was overshadowed by the section I quoted, your logic is flawed. It wasn't a group of crazy Arabs that attacked our country. It was a gigantic, organized group of crazy Arabs. All of the Taliban wanted that to happen, and much, MUCH more to happen. Now their organization and abilities to take on such an attack are no more. You should be glad.

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Yes! :bigteeth:

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I'm assuming this comment was a cheap crack at soldiers like me? If so, go fuck yourself. If it wasn't, my bad.

As to the rest of your post, which was overshadowed by the section I quoted, your logic is flawed. It wasn't a group of crazy Arabs that attacked our country. It was a gigantic, organized group of crazy Arabs. All of the Taliban wanted that to happen, and much, MUCH more to happen. Now their organization and abilities to take on such an attack are no more. You should be glad.

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Yet we invaded Iraq.. The Taliban are located in Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I'm assuming this comment was a cheap crack at soldiers like me? If so, go fuck yourself. If it wasn't, my bad.

As to the rest of your post, which was overshadowed by the section I quoted, your logic is flawed. It wasn't a group of crazy Arabs that attacked our country. It was a gigantic, organized group of crazy Arabs. All of the Taliban wanted that to happen, and much, MUCH more to happen. Now their organization and abilities to take on such an attack are no more. You should be glad.

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Sure, but why kill innocent people? You invade Iraq and bomb Baghdad, do you truly believe every single person in baghdad is a member of the taliban? I don't respect people like you who enjoy blindly killing other people. Even if those people are evil, you just don't kill people. You do not have the right to kill and bomb random innocent people. If you ever wonder why theres so much evil in this world, look at yourself dude, you are one of the causes of all this evil, because you don't mind killing other people. You have been brainwashed by the fear of terrorism. Brainwashed into killing innocent people. Good job into helping this world into evil.

Not killing other people is very simple. No logic required. Just don't do that. Stop being a retard. The choice is right here, right now. Stop being retarded, stop killing other people.

I find it amazing how strongly you believe that YOU MUST KILL PEOPLE.

You have been brainwashed into the religion of the war on terrorism.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You have been brainwashed into the religion of the war on terrorism.

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Been trying to say that for long. Good luck. :P

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Sure, but why kill innocent people? You invade Iraq and bomb Baghdad, do you truly believe every single person in baghdad is a member of the taliban? I don't respect people like you who enjoy blindly killing other people. Even if those people are evil, you just don't kill people. You do not have the right to kill and bomb random innocent people. If you ever wonder why theres so much evil in this world, look at yourself dude, you are one of the causes of all this evil, because you don't mind killing other people. You have been brainwashed by the fear of terrorism. Brainwashed into killing innocent people. Good job into helping this world into evil.

Not killing other people is very simple. No logic required. Just don't do that. Stop being a retard. The choice is right here, right now. Stop being retarded, stop killing other people.

I find it amazing how strongly you believe that YOU MUST KILL PEOPLE.

You have been brainwashed into the religion of the war on terrorism.

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HA! The fear of terrorism! I've been brainwashed into fearing it? Yet I am still enthusiastic about going to a foreign country where my friends are dying one by one to get a piece of the action for myself. Fear. Please. I'll be really "afraid" while you're sitting at home in your peaceful little town.

Unfortunately, even if we never killed people, there are people would still want us dead anyways. A military is a must, because not everybody is as perfect as you.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

HA! The fear of terrorism! I've been brainwashed into fearing it? Yet I am still enthusiastic about going to a foreign country where my friends are dying one by one to get a piece of the action for myself. Fear. Please. I'll be really "afraid" while you're sitting at home in your peaceful little town.

Unfortunately, even if we never killed people, there are people would still want us dead anyways. A military is a must, because not everybody is as perfect as you.

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Sincerely, what you did there was only support war, instead of refuting Chayba's argument.

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Originally Posted by Kromoh

Sincerely, what you did there was only support war, instead of refuting Chayba's argument.

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What argument? The fact that killing innocent people is wrong? Yea, no shit. I'm not dissagreeing with that.

Forget Iraq. Are you saying we should have never taken any military action in response to the attacks on our civilians?

Now prove to me I am brainwashed.

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Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Yet we invaded Iraq.. The Taliban are located in Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

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We invaded Afghanistan first. Then we invaded Iraq, but without expecting to find the Taliban there. (Did I really need to explain that to you? :roll:)

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Sure, but why kill innocent people? You invade Iraq and bomb Baghdad, do you truly believe every single person in baghdad is a member of the taliban? I don't respect people like you who enjoy blindly killing other people. Even if those people are evil, you just don't kill people. You do not have the right to kill and bomb random innocent people. If you ever wonder why theres so much evil in this world, look at yourself dude, you are one of the causes of all this evil, because you don't mind killing other people. You have been brainwashed by the fear of terrorism. Brainwashed into killing innocent people. Good job into helping this world into evil.

Not killing other people is very simple. No logic required. Just don't do that. Stop being a retard. The choice is right here, right now. Stop being retarded, stop killing other people.

I find it amazing how strongly you believe that YOU MUST KILL PEOPLE.

You have been brainwashed into the religion of the war on terrorism.

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Oh my God. We do not target innocent people, and by overthrowing the Hussein regime, we took away a government that functioned by killing innocent people. Who brainwashed you?

You have free will.
You have two choices.
A: KILL PEOPLE
B: DONT KILL PEOPLE

You choose for A, you choose for evil, therefor, by definition, you are evil.

If you ever feel sad or down or wonder why this world is going to shit, it's because of people who think like you. It's because of people like you who choose evil instead of good.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You have free will.
You have two choices.
A: KILL PEOPLE
B: DONT KILL PEOPLE

You choose for A, you choose for evil, therefor, by definition, you are evil.

If you ever feel sad or down or wonder why this world is going to shit, it's because of people who think like you. It's because of people like you who choose evil instead of good.

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What do you suggest we do about the terrorism problem? You sound like you have no idea what is going on. Do you have the first clue what our Middle East objectives are? How old are you?

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

If you ever feel sad or down or wonder why this world is going to shit, it's because of people who think like you. It's because of people like you who choose evil instead of good.

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Glad I could contribute.

Kill people, don't kill people. Your black and white view of the world is sad. Come Universal, let us challenge Chayba's shadowed view of the world.

It's up to you to choose between evil and good. If you actually realize you're doing evil, and you choose to keep doing it, theres no way I can argue.