Al Gore criticizes Bush for ignoring Iraq's ties to terrorism.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I don't agree with Gore on this. I disagree with him about 45% of the time and the other 55% of the time I fall asleep listening to him. He blathers on with useless information everyone is aware of as if he found the evidence in a sunken treasure chest.

When I was like 8 or something my Dad took me to see him speak and afterwards my Dad was like, "Oh wow! Wasn't he charismatic?" And I was 8, I don't remember a word he said.

Gore is not a real liberal, he's anti-american. He purposely tries to undermine people, and so in an attempt to undermine both Bush administrations, he jumps from one side of the fence to the other to take whatever position is against them. Michael Moore does it too, but Michael Moore is entertaining so I forgive him.

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I totally agree with all of that, except I think Gore is a real liberal. Modern liberalism is nothing more than the religion of Anti-Republicanism.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Unfortunately, there is no way to distinguish Iraq as a valuable target against terrorism or for democracy and security.

It is a valuable target for business interests, however.

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At this point, Iraq is mainly a valuable target for civilizing the Middle East in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I totally agree with all of that, except I think Gore is a real liberal. Modern liberalism is nothing more than the religion of Anti-Republicanism.

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For me, liberalism is still what it always was, but republicans have changed the word into "anti-republicanism." Essentially, if someone has a differing viewpoint on things like civil rights, the environment, foreign policy and economic theory, they're called a liberal. The people calling themselves liberals that weren't ruined the word first, though.

But if you got in an argument with a religious person, talk about drugs or... anything and inevtiably they'll probably use the word liberal like its an insult.

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At this point, Iraq is mainly a valuable target for civilizing the Middle East in the long run.

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How can a bankrupt nation be trying to civilize anything?

And why is our civilization better than their's? Western civilization put all those kings in power in the first place thinking that countries were the next stage of civilization. The West (UK mostly) didn't understand the way they saw the world, they thought their way of seeing things was better.

Western Cultural exportation are to the Middle East what the parasitic bark beatle is to forests in the western hemisphere.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

For me, liberalism is still what it always was, but republicans have changed the word into "anti-republicanism." Essentially, if someone has a differing viewpoint on things like civil rights, the environment, foreign policy and economic theory, they're called a liberal. The people calling themselves liberals that weren't ruined the word first, though.



But if you got in an argument with a religious person, talk about drugs or... anything and inevtiably they'll probably use the word liberal like its an insult.

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Mainstream liberalism today is about finding out what Republicans think about an issue, taking the polar opposite side, and then calling them the worst names they can think of. That is what it is about now.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

How can a bankrupt nation be trying to civilize anything?

And why is our civilization better than their's? Western civilization put all those kings in power in the first place thinking that countries were the next stage of civilization. The West (UK mostly) didn't understand the way they saw the world, they thought their way of seeing things was better.

Western Cultural exportation are to the Middle East what the parasitic bark beatle is to forests in the western hemisphere.

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What we did for Japan is what we are now doing for Iraq and Afghanistan. We have given them governments that allow the people to control the government and for capitalism to lead to prosperity that leads to cultural advancement. We are ending the terrorist breeding ground nature that came with their severe poverty and despair.

Japan is now the second wealthiest nation in the world.

Japan had twice as many aircraft carriers than the United States in the beginning of WW2. How do you think they were able to rage a war against China and the US airforce? You act like we dropped ourselves off into the country when they were still cutting each other's heads off with katanas. They were always one of the most powerful nations on earth.

And I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself. Western manipulation of Middle East politics caused the poverty and despair in the first place. You think our way of thinking is better than their's and that's why they're in "despair" but the Middle East is in this state because Western ideals were being imposed on their ideals, and the two did not add up.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Japan had twice as many aircraft carriers than the United States in the beginning of WW2. How do you think they were able to rage a war against China and the US airforce? You act like we dropped ourselves off into the country when they were still cutting each other's heads off with katanas. They were always one of the most powerful nations on earth.

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I said they are now the second wealthiest nation in the world. What was their wealth ranking right before World War II?

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself. Western manipulation of Middle East politics caused the poverty and despair in the first place. You think our way of thinking is better than their's and that's why they're in "despair" but the Middle East is in this state because Western ideals were being imposed on their ideals, and the two did not add up.

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It doesn't matter if you repeat yourself. What you said does not counter what I said. I do not agree with the past Western government manipulations of Middle Eastern governments which were aimed at quick alliances against worse enemies and at British imperialism and so forth going way back. I do agree with our present Middle East policies.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Japan had twice as many aircraft carriers than the United States in the beginning of WW2. How do you think they were able to rage a war against China and the US airforce? You act like we dropped ourselves off into the country when they were still cutting each other's heads off with katanas. They were always one of the most powerful nations on earth.

And I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself. Western manipulation of Middle East politics caused the poverty and despair in the first place. You think our way of thinking is better than their's and that's why they're in "despair" but the Middle East is in this state because Western ideals were being imposed on their ideals, and the two did not add up.

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Yea right, dude. War and oppression in the middle east never existed until western occupations and influence? Jihadists and fanatical Muslims were never there untill we came along?

I suggest a history book or www.wikipedia.org

I'm talking about Western Manipulation during the turn of the last century, genius.

And UM, I could say the exact same thing about neoconservatives during Clinton's administration as far as what you claim modern liberals are. I won't because its not true, they had their minds made up and were just trying to glue the evidence together right to fit it. In fact, it's a completely radical statement that reveals just how warped your sense of the world really is, and lightweight offensive.

We didn't civilize Japan. Stop pretending we're like these exporters of a higher style of living to the barbaric rest of the world. It's ignorant.

I'd also like to state that you are anti-humanity.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I'm talking about Western Manipulation during the turn of the last century, genius.

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And how was the Middle East doing before that, Galileo?

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And UM, I could say the exact same thing about neoconservatives during Clinton's administration as far as what you claim modern liberals are. I won't because its not true, they had their minds made up and were just trying to glue the evidence together right to fit it. In fact, it's a completely radical statement that reveals just how warped your sense of the world really is, and lightweight offensive.

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It is what you said about Al Gore, and it applies to a lot more liberals than him. It is a modern trend.

Didn't you say in the Religion forum that anything that can be thought is reality? Any way, try a new method of meditation. The one you are doing is not working.

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

We didn't civilize Japan. Stop pretending we're like these exporters of a higher style of living to the barbaric rest of the world. It's ignorant.

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We rewrote Japan's constitution in 1945, and now they are the second wealthiest nation in the world. Tell me (since you dodged it last time)... How did they rank right before World War II?

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Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I'd also like to state that you are anti-humanity.

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Then you are delusional or lying. I know which of the two it is. ;) I should also add that you cannot expect everybody to be as loving and caring as your behavior proves you are. :chuckle: You hate the idea of turning shitty countries into great ones, don't you? Who is anti-humanity?

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Please site where I said I will rape Iraqi women. Your assumptions are outstandingly retarded.

But if a woman tries to kill me in Iraq, she will die. I will live with myself by knowing that I am going home. Thats something you will never have to worry about.

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I'm 100% sure, if anyone invaded America, for any reason whatsoever, and would bomb your cities, kill your childeren, rape your women, you would also fight back and defend your country.

What if it was your own govermnent who killed their own people on 9/11? How would you be able to live with yourself? What's the purpose of bombing cities and killing people and raping women?! You think by killing people you will turn them to the good side? Well that's pretty hard when theyre DEAD isn't it? But I guess you never have thought about that. You just think, they are evil, they must die. And you are uncapable of thinking any further.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I'm 100% sure, if anyone invaded America, for any reason whatsoever, and would bomb your cities, kill your childeren, rape your women, you would also fight back and defend your country.

What if it was your own govermnent who killed their own people on 9/11? How would you be able to live with yourself? What's the purpose of bombing cities and killing people and raping women?! You think by killing people you will turn them to the good side? Well that's pretty hard when theyre DEAD isn't it? But I guess you never have thought about that. You just think, they are evil, they must die. And you are uncapable of thinking any further.

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You have to be at least 15 to post here.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I'm 100% sure, if anyone invaded America, for any reason whatsoever, and would bomb your cities, kill your childeren, rape your women, you would also fight back and defend your country.

What if it was your own govermnent who killed their own people on 9/11? How would you be able to live with yourself? What's the purpose of bombing cities and killing people and raping women?! You think by killing people you will turn them to the good side? Well that's pretty hard when theyre DEAD isn't it? But I guess you never have thought about that. You just think, they are evil, they must die. And you are uncapable of thinking any further.

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You are so uninformed about present day military operations it baffels me. You are also uninformed about the people we are fighting.

For the last time, I'm not interested in turning these people over to "the good side". You shouldn't be either! Its IMPOSSIBLE.

I respect your little opinions because it is people like you whow make our country look like sane and caring individuals. Just know that it is people like me, who aren't passive and evasive, who get shit done when shit happens.

PS. I think you may be under the age limit for posting on this site.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You have to be at least 15 to post here.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

PS. I think you may be under the age limit for posting on this site.

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How mature. Monkey see, monkey do.

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Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

How mature. Monkey see, monkey do.

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I know you are, but what am I! I'm rubber, and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

There, that's the kind of dialect that someone of your maturity could understand.

Honestly, how old are you? I bet you won't tell us all.

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Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Killing is a primal instinct. It is YOU who have been brainwashed/indoctrinated into believing differently. Killing has always existed. Peace has NEVER. Some of us are just controlled professionals at it.

"When you're pushed, killing is as easy as breathing" -John FUCKING Rambo.

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Really? Have you really resorted to using movie quotes to justify your blood lust? I mean, some say the bible is ficticious and we all know plenty of people use that to feel righteous when they kill, but I think we can all agree that Rambo isn't real, and therefore not a great source for personal morality.

Hey, if you get enjoyment from murder, thats your bag. Just don't try to make it sound like we all should be doing it. Rape is a primal instinct, and you can be sure there is plenty of that being perpetrated by military personnel as well.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Really? Have you really resorted to using movie quotes to justify your blood lust? I mean, some say the bible is ficticious and we all know plenty of people use that to feel righteous when they kill, but I think we can all agree that Rambo isn't real, and therefore not a great source for personal morality.

Hey, if you get enjoyment from murder, thats your bag. Just don't try to make it sound like we all should be doing it. Rape is a primal instinct, and you can be sure there is plenty of that being perpetrated by military personnel as well.

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The people he enjoys killing are people who enjoy killing people like you. You are damn lucky there are people like him out there.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The people he enjoys killing are people who enjoy killing people like you. You are damn lucky there are people like him out there.

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Originally Posted by The Simpsons

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

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I sure am glad I have that rock, and those patriotic troops out there killing for my freedom.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I sure am glad I have that rock, and those patriotic troops out there killing for my freedom.

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What I am talking about is not limited to the terrorism threat, which does in fact exist and does need to be handled through democratization as well as the killing of terrorists and terrorist governments.

I am sure you would admit that at least some of America's wars were necessary for your freedom. Would you not?

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I sure am glad I have that rock, and those patriotic troops out there killing for my freedom.

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Lol. Nicely put. :D

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What I am talking about is not limited to the terrorism threat, which does in fact exist and does need to be handled through democratization as well as the killing of terrorists and terrorist governments.

I am sure you would admit that at least some of America's wars were necessary for your freedom. Would you not?

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Yeah, This one. I could go either way on one or two of the other ones; not knowing how they could have ended up and all. If the U.S. hadn't enter WW2, there is a slim chance the Nazi's could have pushed for world domination but its not all that likely.

Really, The only things threatening my freedom are,

World Domination perpetrated by a malevolent dictator or similar Regime

Total Annihilation of the Country (or at least the very specific part that I am living on; i.e. my death)

My own government restricting my rights.

I honestly don't see how any person of moderate intelligence can swallow this 'protecting our freedom' tripe, while simultaneously allowing more and more of their freedoms to be taken away in exchange for the illusion of safety.

Even if we assume that the terrorists are trying to take my life on a day to day basis, they still remain powerless to take my freedom unless they actively invade and enslave me; which is something they are simply not capable of. Our government throws around the word freedom as if it is a fragile thing waiting to be broken by a lone suicide bomber, and they portray it in this way because they know that they are the ones who are really in control of how many freedoms we have or don't have.

P.S. The World Domination angle is a funny one, because one day we will wake up and realize it is us who have been conquering others and taking their freedom. Forced democracy is not democracy at all and it is not free. You cannot force anyone to be free with military aggression.

Xaqaria, give a short summary of what would happen if the United States completely disbanded the military tomorrow. If we suddenly no longer had a military, what would things be like here in one month? Think really hard about that and then give the best answer you can give.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Xaqaria, give a short summary of what would happen if the United States completely disbanded the military tomorrow. If we suddenly no longer had a military, what would things be like here in one month? Think really hard about that and then give the best answer you can give.

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The former terrorists and Americans would hold hands and dance in the rivers of chocolate as they loved their hate away.

Xaqaria, how many of your rights have been taken away? In fact, has your life changed at all since the war on terror started?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Xaqaria, give a short summary of what would happen if the United States completely disbanded the military tomorrow. If we suddenly no longer had a military, what would things be like here in one month? Think really hard about that and then give the best answer you can give.

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Leave it to UM to throw out ridiculous straw man arguments in order to garner support for his point of view. Who is arguing for total disbandment of the U.S. military? Does the existence of a national military dictate that it must be used as an aggressive and invasive force on other nations? If the only option to protect the country from outside attack you can concieve of is offensive wars instigated by us then you are severely lacking in problem solving skills.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Leave it to UM to throw out ridiculous straw man arguments in order to garner support for his point of view. Who is arguing for total disbandment of the U.S. military? Does the existence of a national military dictate that it must be used as an aggressive and invasive force on other nations? If the only option to protect the country from outside attack you can concieve of is offensive wars instigated by us then you are severely lacking in problem solving skills.

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Thanks for dodging, as you often do.

Without people like Half/Dreaming, members of the U.S. military that is, the people he is killing would be right over here killing Americans like crazy (for one thing), and there is a high likelihood you would be one of them. That is why I said this...

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The people he enjoys killing are people who enjoy killing people like you. You are damn lucky there are people like him out there.

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That is the comment you responded to by saying silly things about rocks. Now do you get it?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Thanks for dodging, as you often do.

Without people like Half/Dreaming, members of the U.S. military that is, the people he is killing would be right over here killing Americans like crazy (for one thing), and there is a high likelihood you would be one of them. That is why I said this...



That is the comment you responded to by saying silly things about rocks. Now do you get it?

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Yes. I get that you like straw man arguments. Will you stop using them now?

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Yes. I get that you like straw man arguments. Will you stop using them now?

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That was not straw man. I supported my statement that got you talking about rocks. Now counter my point, or at least give it your best shot. The terrorists we are fighting in Iraq are Iranian terrorists, members of Al Qaeda, and other terrorists who seek to kill YOU. Do you honestly want to deny that?