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How many people live by the 5 second rule?
If you don't know the five second rule is eating food off the ground if it hasn't been there more than 5 seconds. Personally I don't worry much about the length of time, I just look at the food and make a judgement as to weather or not it would still taste good.
It seems to me like this country is turning into a bunch of germaphobes.
Depends on what it is and how clean the floor is. I wouldn't on my floor, I have dogs. :P
It not only depends on how long it has been on the floor, but also on what it has fallen in. If I see something fall, and it looks clean enough to eat when I pick it up, I'll eat it. Some things need a rinse under the sink first, but most don't.
Peanut buttered bread falling peanut butter side down is where I draw the line though. That shit grabs everything off the floor.
I pretty much agree with the above. It depends on how clean the floor is and what I dropped. I know that a little bit of dirt actually helps your immune system, which a lot of people don't understand, so they want to make sure that everything they've touched has been 99.99% sanitized. If I drop it in the sand, though - or an overtly dirty floor - and it's something that is bound to pick up a lot of the dirt, I'll throw it out.
Hehe, actually there was a news report on this awhile back. It said its safe up to 30 seconds, depending on how clean the floor is.
I generally dont care, as long as theres nothing on it.
I don't eat anything that's been on the floor :P I don't care how clean the floor is, or how long its been there. What can I say, I'm delicate ^^
I recently saw a news article that said it should be more like a zero second rule. That got me pretty pissed off because I'm sick of hearing false scientific information in the news. People are already too concerned with things being "safe". Take some risks, Live.
Yea really, whats the worst that could happen?
I actually made a thread somewhat similar to this a little while ago, talking about the whole "exposure to germs" issue, and the 5-second rule. This is the article that inspired the thread (When I originally saw it, it was a video on CNN, but this article is talking about the same story).
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/condi...ies/index.html
Obviously the 5-second rule is not all that bad - even for children.
There is one speck of light in the whole 5-second-rule bullshit. It is a great way to determine who should be eaten when a group is forced to cannibalism on a deserted island. People that believe in the 5-second-rule are idiots.
Food gets floor-germs all over it in a fraction of a second. Not as much germs as are on your hands however. Most floors in western houses are clean enough not to pose any threat to your health, even if you were to lick them.
Look, I don't eat soup of the floor if I drop it, but everything half-solid is still fine to eat.
I don't like the taste of dirt, so I said no.
I don't eat stuff if it's covered in dirt either. But many times food looks perfectly fine after falling on the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Nah, I feel weird doing it.
This is exactly why I made this thread. Why is it weird? The only difference is that the food has some germs on it now. It's like as a culture we have created this imaginary force that keeps us from eating things if they aren't perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoSun13
I used to feel the same way but then I realized I was being completely ridiculous.
I follow it most of the time. If I have a lollipop, and I drop it in the sand, I'm probably not gonna eat it.:P
I'll eat some types of food if they fall on my floor at home, I always check it though and if I see anything on it I'll throw it away. If the food will make it easy for things to stick to it, then I just throw it away without checking. Other than my house, I won't touch food on the floor. There's no telling what's been on those floors! I at least know what gets on my floors. If I was outside somewhere and food fell on the ground I definitely wouldn't eat it. It doesn't even take 5 seconds for bacteria to get on the food.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-second_rule
Quote:
In 2003, intern Jillian Clarke of the University of Illinois found in a survey that 56% of the men and 70% of the women surveyed were familiar with the five-second rule, and determined that a variety of foods were significantly contaminated by even brief exposure to a tile inoculated with E.coli; on the other hand, Clarke also found no significant evidence of contamination on public flooring. Clarke received the 2004 Ig Nobel Prize in public health (a parody award) for this work.
A more thorough study in 2006 using salmonella on wood, tiles, and nylon carpet found that the bacteria were still thriving after twenty-eight days of exposure under dry conditions. Tested after eight hours' exposure, the bacteria could still contaminate bread and bologna in under five seconds, but a minute-long contact increased contamination about tenfold (with tile and carpet surfaces only).
The five-second rule was also featured in an episode of the Discovery Channel series MythBusters. There was no significant difference in the number of bacteria collected from 2 seconds exposure as there was from 6 seconds exposure. The moisture, surface geometry and the location the food item was dropped on did however affect the number of bacteria.
i even eat other people's food.
My catch phrase is "are you going to finish that". If someone is about to throw away good food...or even soda ill ask them for it lol.
Just can't let food go to waste!
ewww gross no, out of the question
I have worked with dogs and cats for nearly a year. I know what comes out of them. How lazy owners are, and how animals step in their own poo then just walk all over the place.
So concrete, out of the question. Not to mention, people also spit on the floors. Any home with cats or dogs, out of the question - cat paws are even nastier. Do you know what they do with their paws???
WORMS, EWWW, NASTY, NO THANK YOU
I know what tends to drop on my kitchen floor, and how often we mop. And um, you're safer licking my cats butt.
You must have some nasty floors!Quote:
Originally Posted by juroara
The food in question and the ground are dry, then yes. I just pick it up, blow it off and pop it in.
Floor? Nah.
But I do wash up in my pub, and I do get bloody hungry after 6 hours or so... so if some random crap comes back half eaten then... why not?
Plus I get stuff they've finished with in the kitchen... half a tub of lemon curd... that was good times. :D
I don't eat food that was on the floor but I lick my dogs paw all the time...Quote:
Originally Posted by juroara
It depends wholly on the product and the condition of where it fell... things that are semi solid like mashed potatoes or noodles no...
solid stuff such as cooked meat, hell yeah, 2 seconds under the sink and it's fine
It isn't true, but if I drop a cracker on a hardwood flor that it pretty clean, I don't care too much.
I don't think most of you realize just what is on most floors. It's true that the chances of getting infected with something are small, as they usually are, but eating food off the floor increases those odds by an order of magnitude. So, if every bite of food normally has a (numbers made up) 0.0001% chance of giving you a bacterial infection, a bite of food off the floor might be at 0.001%. Still low, but higher.
Nice sig...Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
I will only eat dry stuff off the floor, and only my floor.
I realize whats on my floor. Germs and bacteria. But theres no reason to be afraid of germs and bacteria. At least if you have a strong immune system there isn't. But if you constantly avoid germs your immune system will be weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Go eat something with E.coli or Salmonella and see how well your immune system holds up.
It's not that many of us don't realize what's on most floors. It's that many of us don't care, granting the floor is not completely foreign and at least isn't just undeniably filthy. Seriously, how many people have you heard of that got extremely sick from eating something off the floor? How many people have you heard of that got extremely sick because they didn't wash their hands before eating, even after they went to the bathroom? Sure, it's a "gamble," but not one that merits all the germophobia that we see on a regular basis in modern society. I don't really think anyone here is talking about dropping a scoop of ice cream on a barn floor and licking it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
If I play football in the street, the chance of my getting hit by a car is significantly higher than if I was playing in a grassy field. Doesn't quite mean I'm going to avoid playing in the street.
i go by the ten minute rule. :lol:
meh i tend to not really eat stuff off the floor. Usually the floor is just too nasty or it really isn't worth it. If its just a little tiny piece of food than meh its not worth it. But if my steak falls on the floor than ill pick it up and eat it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
But I tend to be more inclined to eat other people's food. There is so much germs and shit thats around you that it really doesn't matter to me. As long as the guy whos food im eating isnt sick than its fair game.
Are you going to finish that?
My criteria
- The person isn't sick.
- The food is a desierable food.
- The guy didn't spit on it.
PS: :hug: stonedape, thanks for making my day with a george carlin clip....i love him.
armpits, asshole, crotch, and teeth HAHAHA
Oh, look what was on Yahoo's front page!
Quote:
Personally, I never quite trusted that 5-second food-dropped-on-the-floor rule, and I think it's rude to double-dip a chip (just take another!). But how bad are these things, really? To find out, I asked experts to reveal the truth behind some of the most common health rumors still making their way 'round the watercooler (and the Internet). Here's what you need to worry about, what you don't, and what's just plain gross. (Hint: The critters living on your kitchen floor can't tell time.)
Myth: It's safe to follow the 5-second rule
Verdict: Fiction. It's probably not safe to eat anything that's been on the floor for even 1 second. In a recent experiment, food scientists contaminated several surfaces with Salmonella. They then dropped pieces of bologna and slices of bread on the floor for as little as 5 seconds (and as long as 60). In 5 seconds, both the bread and the bologna picked up an alarming 1,800 types of bacteria. So unless you sterilize your floors on an hourly basis, don't eat anything your shoes have touched, too. (Here are some speed tips on cleaning.)
Myth: Double-dipping spreads germs from one chip to another
Verdict: Fact. Although this social faux pas may feel dated -- Seinfeld's George Costanza is the most famous double-dipper -- swiping a chip into dip, taking a bite, and then dipping the same chip again, is, in fact, a very effective way to spread germs. Having settled the 5-second rule debate, those same intrepid food scientists, using Wheat Thins and various dips, found that a double-dip deposited thousands of saliva bacteria into the dip. Of those, 50 to 100 were later transferred through the dip to a clean cracker, presumably destined for another guest's mouth. In short: Eating from a dip after someone has dipped twice is basically the same as kissing that person. (Here are some easy, delicious dips that are won't hurt your waistline -- just make sure your guests only dip once!)
Cell phones can interfere with medical equipment
Verdict: Jury's Out. There's a chance that a cell phone call made in the wrong spot in a hospital can cause ventilators, syringe pumps, or even pacemakers to pulse incorrectly, according to a 2007 Dutch study. The researchers tested cell phones, including PDAs that use wireless Internet signals, just a few centimeters from devices; 43% caused electromagnetic interference with critical care equipment -- and a third of those instances could be potentially life-threatening to patients. Though a similar study didn't yield these same results, if you want a clear conscience, use a designated cell phone area. (Find out how your zip code and hospital care are interrelated.)
Cracking your knuckles can cause arthritis
Verdict: Fiction. This nervous tic may be annoying, but it's not likely to cause arthritis. One study at the former Mount Carmel Mercy Hospital in Detroit compared 74 people (age 45 and older) who had been chronic knuckle crackers for decades with 226 who always left their hands alone. Researchers found no difference in the incidence of osteoarthritis between the two groups. But there are reasons to stop this cringe-inducing habit: The same study found that knuckle crackers are much more likely to have weaker grip strength and greater hand swelling, both of which can limit dexterity. (Here are some home remedies for osteoarthritis.)
1) The surface was intentionally infected with salmonella.
2) Does it say anywhere that any of the 1,800 types of bacteria that were picked up were harmful in any way?
I think that it's important for everyone to have standards that they live by. One of mine is not eating anything that fell on the floor.
Not particularly alarming if they don't tell us how many types of bacteria are typically on a piece of food to give us any kind of reference. Another bollocks statistic. Wouldn't be very different to clean food I reckon.
Also I don't think dropping the piece of food on a surface they'd swamped with salmanella is particularly representative of the average floor? :\
Justin, they had the exact same article on MSN a month ago. It's what inspired me to start this thread. It had the exact same topics. Fucking news. Green party Germaphobe propaganda. I can't beleive these people who are afraid of germs and bacteria. It's ridiculous.
Yes, intentionally, it's called an experiment. They were showing people it doesn't take long for bacteria to get onto food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
No it doesn't tell anywhere that the 1,800 types of bacteria were harmful. I'm sure there's a good chance some of them were though.
No, it's not the average floor. It was an experiment, I don't think they were trying to simulate every floor in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
All they're doing is showing people it doesn't take 5 seconds for bacteria to attach itself to food that's been dropped on the floor, it barely even takes a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
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The fact still remains bacteria is always present on a floor, even if it's sterilized regularly. It's all up to the person whether they want to eat something off of the floor that's been infested with more bacteria than it originally had, or if they want to throw it away. I wouldn't call it germaphobia, it's more like not wanting to eat bacteria. I can see a person eating something off the floor in their own house, if the floors are regularly cleaned and they don't have any pets roaming around inside the house, but in a restaurant or some other foreign place other than their household, eating food off the floor is just stupid in my opinion. There's no telling what's been on those floors, imagine all the shoes stepping all over the floor and what's been on those shoes. Oh, yeah, so I stepped in some dog poo outside and tracked it inside the building, who cares? I'll still eat the food that fell in the same place. Some foods are obviously safer than others if dropped on the floor, like dry foods (crackers, cookies, chips, etc. etc.) are safer than moist foods (cheese, ice cream, apples, etc. etc. etc.), because the moist foods will have more bacteria on them than the dry. Dropping food on the floor will increase the chances of you getting sick, although it's still possible it won't be a really high risk. All I know is that I hope you people wouldn't eat food that's dropped in poo. Of course if you didn't though, I guess you're a germaphobe.
I guess by the same standards you are all using, since it's probably not going to get really dirty on the floor, would you take a shot glass and put it into a flowing stream and drink that water? I don't really see why you wouldn't, because after all it's only a shot glass full of water, not like a lot of harmful bacteria will be in it! Just don't let water flow inside of it for more than 5 seconds. LOL!
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I've listed the most common foodborne illnesses caused by bacteria. For a bigger list, including common, and less common, look here.
Clostridium perfringens (THE CAFETERIA GERM)
C. jejuniQuote:
Clostridium perfringens (formerly known as Clostridium welchii) is a Gram-positive, rod-shaped, anaerobic, spore-forming bacterium of the genus Clostridium. C. perfringens is ubiquitous in nature and can be found as a normal component of decaying vegetation, marine sediment, the intestinal tract of humans and other vertebrates, insects, and soil. Virtually every soil sample ever examined, with the exception of the sands of the Sahara, has contained C. perfringens.
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Some strains of C. perfringens produce toxins which cause food poisoning if ingested. In the United Kingdom and United States they are the third most common cause of food-borne illness, with poorly prepared meat and poultry the main culprits in harboring the bacterium.[3] The clostridial enterotoxin mediating the disease is often heat-resistant and can be detected in contaminated food and feces.[4]
Incubation time is between 8 and 16 hours after ingestion of contaminated food. Manifestions typically include abdominal cramping and diarrhea - vomiting and fever are unusual. The whole course usually resolves within 24 hours. Very rare, fatal cases of clostridial necrotizing enteritis have been known to involve "Type C" strains of the organism, which produce a potently ulcerative β-toxin.
It is likely that many cases of C. perfringens food poisoning remain sub clinical, as antibodies to the toxin are common amongst the population. This has led to the conclusion that most, if not all, of the population has experienced food poisoning due to C. perfringens.[3]
On July 14, 2008, Australian officials listed C. perfringens as the cause of an outbreak at Endeavour Nursing Home in Springwood, NSW where 80 individuals had become sick, and 10 later died. As of this date, the details are not clear.
SalmonellaQuote:
Campylobacter jejuni is a species of curved, rod-shaped, non-spore forming, Gram-negative microaerophilic, bacteria commonly found in animal feces.[1] It is one of the most common causes of human gastroenteritis in the world. Food poisoning caused by Campylobacter species can be severely debilitating but is rarely life-threatening. It has been linked with subsequent development of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), which usually develops two to three weeks after the initial illness.
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C. jejuni is commonly associated with poultry and naturally colonises the GI tract of many bird species. It has also been isolated from wombat and kangaroo feces, being a cause of bushwalkers' diarrhea. Contaminated drinking water and unpasteurized milk provide an efficient means for distribution. Contaminated food is a major source of isolated infections, with incorrectly prepared meat and poultry normally the source of the bacteria.
Infection with C. jejuni usually results in enteritis, which is characterised by abdominal pain, diarrhea, fever, and malaise. The symptoms usually persist for between 24 hours and a week, but may be longer. Diarrhea can vary in severity from loose stools to bloody stools. No antibiotics are usually given as the disease is self-limiting, however, severe or prolonged cases may require ciprofloxacin, erythromycin or norfloxacin. Fluid and electrolyte replacement may be required for serious cases.
Escherichia coli O157:H7Quote:
Disease-causing Salmonella species have recently been re-classified into a single species, Salmonella enterica, which has numerous serovars. Salmonella Typhi causes typhoid fever. Other salmonellae are frequent causes of foodborne illness, especially from poultry and raw eggs and more generally from food that has been cooked or frozen and not eaten straight away. Although most non-typhoidal strains associated with food-borne infection are self-limiting and do not require antibiotics, complicated or systemic infection and infection with specific serovars (such as Typhi) are indications for antibiotic treatment and often hospitalization. The long-term usage of antibiotics in both the poultry and beef industries may have created a strain of salmonella which is potentially resistant to antibiotics.
------------------------------Quote:
Escherichia coli O157:H7 is an enterohemorrhagic strain of the bacterium Escherichia coli and a cause of foodborne illness. Based on a 1999 estimate, there are 73,000 cases of infection and about 60 deaths caused by E.coli O157:H7 each year in the United States. Infection often leads to bloody diarrhea, and occasionally to kidney failure, especially in young children and elderly people. Most illness has been associated with eating undercooked, contaminated ground beef, drinking unpasteurized milk, swimming in or drinking contaminated water, and eating contaminated vegetables.
I figured I'd post this because it's a pretty cool finding.
Five-second Rule (MythBusters):
Quote:
Myth Statement:
The "Five-second rule" is valid when it comes to food dropped on the floor.
Verdict:
Busted
Notes:
This myth yielded a varied number of results, but in the definitive test where the only variable was time, the myth was definitively busted. There was no real difference in the number of bacteria collected from 2 seconds exposure as there was from 6 seconds exposure.
Quote:
Myth Statement:
The toilet seat is the cleanest place in the house.
Verdict:
Confirmed
Notes:
Adam tested this myth just out of curiosity. When the results were compared to the bacteria samples from the "Five Second Rule" tests, the toilet seat actually proved cleaner than all other surfaces tested.
Yeah, it's not like germs have killed more humans than any other cause in history, including war, famine, and old age...oh wait.
Too bad we don't have this system in our bodies that fights germs. If you avoid all contact with germs your immune system will be weak. We live in a fairly clean society. At least my house is clean.
About the whole Germs and Bacteria kill you thing...your wrong. Wash with Dial soap, and come tell me that your hands aren't dry. Also while you're at it, stop eating yogurt and cheese. And while you're at that, stop living. Truth is, you can't live with ought some bacteria.
Ok, wait...I'm confused now.
Is this thread about the myth that it takes 5-seconds for bacteria to get onto food (which I don't think anyone here has implied was false) or that eating something that fell on the floor isn't "safe"? The two are completely different issues.
Personally, I've never taken the "5-second rule" that literally. I've always looked at it as a joke - another way of saying "Oh well, no big deal" and picking something up that dropped on a moderately non-filthy surface. If anyone is saying that food can catch germs before those 5-seconds, I'm not disputing that.
However, I do think the danger is highly over-stated.
Do you have any idea how much bacteria you ingest everyday? By the logic of "avoid it because it has bacteria on it," how sheltered would your life be? Did you know that the ice that comes out of soda fountains in even some of the cleanest fast-food chains in the planet have more bacteria than most toilet water? If you've gone all day doing God knows what, and then you realize you have a cut on your lip, do you rush to a sink to wash and sanitize your hands before stretching your lip in a mirror to investigate the wound? How often do you wash your hands after handling money?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
The point is that bacteria is everywhere. There is no steering clear of it. 5-second-rule scenarios are never objective, because you are bound to pick up more germs doing everyday activities. I have no problem with someone saying they won't pick up something that's fallen on the floor and eat it because they just believe it to be nasty. That's all fine and good. But when people start touting the "dangers of germs" and "but it's got bacteria on it!" as if they are going to become noticeably infected with something because they picked up a potato chip that fell on their living room floor, I have to kind of roll my eyes at them.
This is what the thread is about. People seem to forget how the immune system works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
avoiding every day bacteria makes you more susceptible to the more aggressive bacteria out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
It's all about drawing a line, right? I mean how many of you drink out of public toilets to boost your immune system?
So, you're denying that infectious disease is the number one all-time killer of humans? Or are you denying that most humans die of infectious disease in places/times where eating food off the floor is common (eg. modern Africa, 14th century Europe)?Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
I don't think anyone is denying that.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
If you are never exposed to germs in your life, when you do, your immune system will be overwhelmed by them and you will succumb to whatever it is and get sick. If you instead had a healthy immune system, it would fight off these germs and you would not get sick.
Like what The Enterer said, it's just about drawing lines. I won't drink out of the toilet, or wipe my ass with my hand, and then eat a sandwich. But I will eat stuff off the floor, and only wash my hands after I poop, or before preparing food.
But the main argument for eating off the floor is essentially that I'm screwing my immune system if I don't. But that's clearly not true. Your immune system will not be better off in any significant way from doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmaven
You understand the concept of diminishing returns, right? I posit that simply breathing the air on Earth brings the immune system up to like 99% of its potential, and eating off the floor might bring you up to 100% (not 100% healthy, but 100% "germ-fighting capability") but then increases risk tenfold.
No...the main argument for eating off of many floors is that there's little reason, if any, to feel that you'd be adversely affected by doing it, unless you're in absolutely filthy conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
I don't know about that. Since it seems, at first glance (correct me if I'm wrong), that the most potent bacteria isn't airborne. That statistic (though I know it's made up) seems a little one-sided, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
The main arguemnet for eating food off the floor is to not be wasteful. It's not that your screwing your immune system by not eating off the floor, it's just one of the many habits people have to avoid all germs. But You aren't increasing your risk of getting sick by any significant amount either.
The breathing example makes no sense either because if I breath air where I live and am at 99%, then I would have a 100% chance of being sick if I went on vacation to China. My neighbors just got back from there a few weeks ago and did not get sick.
That's a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
5 second rule? Hell, I live by the find-food-in-your-couch-cushions-after-a-helluva-long-time rule. I haven't inherited salmonella or AIDs or cancer yet, either, but then again I haven't been to a doctor in a long time so maybe I'm dormant.
Fuck the germaphobes - pussies.
No it isn't. Most bacteria and viruses are international, so immunity here is near immunity there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Source please?Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Allright, your right, the air is just as bad in china as it is everywhere else.
I know bacteria is everywhere, but not all bacteria is dangerous. I don't ingest Salmonella everyday, I don't ingest E.coli O157:H7 everyday, I don't ingest C. jejuni, and I don't ingest C. perfringens ever day. If I did I'd obviously be in the hospital/dead. I've already stated I see no problem in eating a chip that falls on the floor in your own house, as long as it's clean and there are no pets roaming around, but would you eat a chip that fell onto the ground outside? I mean, if you want to eat something that fell where an animal's fecal matter was recently there or something, be my guest. Would you eat your chicken strips you accidentally dropped in a restaurant? There's no telling what else has been on that restaurant floor, not to mention all the shoes that have recently touched it, would you lick the bottom of your shoes, what about 100+ other people's shoes? I'm sure you would since you'd eat something that possibly fell where they just touched. Would you drink water from a pond outside, or from a flowing stream? I heard Cholera is a fun thing to get. If I have a dry food item fall on the floor in my own house, sure I'll eat it because the floors are cleaned all the time and we don't wear shoes, and we have no pets. I'll blow it off first though. But if I'm somewhere besides my own house where I have no idea what's been on the floors or anything else and I drop food, I'm throwing it away. I'd rather be safe than sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I avoid contact with germs. I wash my hands after coming into contact with anything I see as unhealthy. I refuse to drink after people or finish eating something someone didn't finish. I wash my hands after I use the bathroom, after I come from outside, touch an animal/pet, after I do anything I find to be dirty. I wash my hands before/after I touch food. I can hang around people with strep throat, the flu, a cold, and no telling what else and never (except for a cold every now and then) catch it. Even when I get a cold it never lasts long and it isn't even bad, all it usually does to me is give me a runny nose. I can stick around my house/around my family when they have stomach viruses, etc. etc., and never get anything. I haven't been to the doctor's office since I was in the 6th grade due to sickness, and I haven't had a cold in about 2 years. Since I avoid germs, my immune system must be horrendously weak. Therefore, I've came to the conclusion I must be superhuman since I've went so long without being sick and being around so many sick people.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Why would he need to state a source? It's common sense to know the common cold, the flu, etc. etc., is world wide, let alone knowing that Salmonella, E.coli, etc. etc. is also world wide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I've dropped a $13 T-Bone steak on my patio deck - given it a brush-off - and enjoyed every bite of it. Amazingly enough, here I am, today. Cholera-free.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Would you have thrown it away?
Yeah...and that would be three named viruses...out of how many on this planet? Would that be the 99% drewmandan was talking about? :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Name a virus that isn't present on every continent in some form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I have absolutely no idea. Furthermore, why would I have to do that? He made the assertion that they are, and you said it was common sense. I happen to've never heard that. So, if it's such common sense, how hard it is to provide a source that backs what you're implying is common knowledge?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Educate me.
[Edit: On second thought, I don't have to know of specific cases to respond to that point.
What do viruses do? They spread. Where was the SARS virus before it went world-wide (not that many years ago, as a matter of fact)? China. It was localized and it spread. By that logic alone (to say nothing of HIV, which allegedly started in Africa), viruses aren't "just everywhere[/i]." Some are, some are not. So, if opposite of that idea is so well-known, according to you, please provide a reference.]
What's on your patio deck? Are there animals/pets on it that relieve themselves all over it? Is it disgustingly dirty? If animals/pets piss and shit on it, or if it was disgustingly dirty, I would have thrown it away. Since you said you're Cholera free then I suppose you did eat animal feces. That's just disgusting on your part. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Drewmandan said "most" viruses and bacteria, "most" doesn't cover 99%. "Most" can cover 50.0000000000000000000001%.
Common sense is usually something obvious, why do you need a source to prove the obvious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
It's common sense/obvious to know that if I'm struck by an atomic bomb point blank and it explodes I'll die, do I need to state a source for that?
It's common sense/obvious that the common cold among other viruses and bacteria are international, do I need to state a source for that?
You shouldn't need sources for obvious statements. :?
Read the thread. No one here is talking about eating off of a floor that is disgustingly dirty. No one. In fact, it's been stated more than once.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
...What? :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
"Cholera-free" means "free of Cholera"...meaning "without Cholera."
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
You shouldn't reject someone asking for information.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
You can assert that it's common sense until you pass out. It doesn't make it so, just because you say it is. Do you have something against providing someone with information? What is obvious is relative. To a doctor, the reason for the pain in your side is obvious. You, on the other hand, have no fucking clue. Should you not ask him for some reference into exactly what's going on inside your body, just because he knows your physiology infinitely better than you do?
Yes, you said you're cholera free. You really need to ingest animal feces to get cholera, so why would you say you're cholera free if you have no pets or animals that would poop on your deck? Cholera-free would be irrelevant to the argument about picking up your steak and eating it unless you have pets to poo on your deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I just see no need in giving sources to obvious things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Ok, why would a person believe the common cold is only in the United States? Also, the immune system isn't viruses and bacteria, when drewmandan said 99% of the immune system's potential, what made you think he means 99% of viruses and bacteria?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I was being facetious. I was playing off of your bringing up Cholera in the first place. That's the only reason I mentioned it. I thought that would have been obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Because someone wants to know? You're too good to direct someone toward information that you say is supposed to be such common knowledge? How self-centered is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Why would you believe a person believes the common cold is only in the United States? Did anyone here say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by nintsuJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Did the "germs" he was talking not consist of viruses and bacteria? Am I missing the obvious again?Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
While it's probubly not the best idea to eat food off your deck, doing it every once in a while is not going to kill you. Have you ever shaken someone's hand? How do you know they weren't just beating off 5 min ago. Make your deciscions in life based off what you do know, not what you don't know. If the food looks nasty as hell, don't eat it. But if I paid $13 for something, I'm gonna eat it most likely. I probubly would have rinsed it off first, but it's not a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
But your immune system isn't working at 99% of its potential all the time. Drewmandan just made up bullshit and thats why Oneironaut was asking for a source.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Uh...E coli is in China? I'm not sure what you mean. Of course there are isolated pathogens, like Malaria in Africa, but then there are a million pathogens that aren't isolated. If not living in China made you truly vulnerable to most, or even a tenth, of all the pathogens in China, you would instantly die when you stepped off the plane from a dozen different diseases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Clearly, this depends on two factors; How dirty the floor is, and how sticky the food is.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
You said "most viruses and bacteria are international." I asked for a source where I could verify that information. As of now, the consensus seems to be that "it's just common knowledge," and I'm just supposed to know it - so common, in fact, that I can't find a single article that confirms it. So I'm asking you for one.
Or was "E. Coli is in China" your answer, posed with a question mark at the end (implying that, because E. Coli is in China, most viruses and bacteria are therefore international)?
You won't find an article confirming that most species of virus and bacteria are international because it is common knowledge. I really think you're either over thinking this or you don't understand what I'm saying. When you step off a plane in China, your first breath probably contains a thousand different species of bacteria. Understand? And I'm not saying China is not clean, because the same is true anywhere. Every one of those species of bacteria would become some sort of disease if your immune system didn't kill it. The fact that people don't drop dead when they leave the country proves that pathogens are international.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
...Read that statement again.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Does that make sense to you?
Seriously. Read it again.
A thousand.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Out of how many?
You said "most." You are implying that there are a greater number of bacteria and viruses than are international than there are that are not international.
If there are a thousand that are international, per your example, what if there are 4 thousand that are not? In such a case, "most" bacteria would not be international. I'm asking you where you got your figures from.
Understand?
My point is, if even a few of those bacteria being breathed in were completely foreign, you would die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Most Cholera cases come from drinking poopy water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
There's no need to help those that can't help themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
You're just as able to look up information as I am.
Why would anyone believe most viruses and bacteria aren't on all continents?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I'm pretty sure he doesn't think someone is immune to all forms of bacteria and viruses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Take this statement, what he says is true. Remember when Europeans came to North America? They brought smallpox among other things and killed a lot of Native Americans, the Europeans had immunities to them. Now if some form of a virus/bacteria wasn't on all continents, we'd get deathly sick when we traveled out of our country, or city, or state, or providence, or whatever you want to choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
I see a bunch of assertions, and nothing to back it up. I'm guessing you'll have to just forgive my ignorance. But if I was to encounter a type of bacteria that's completely foreign to me, I would die? That's news.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
...yes...and what does that have to do with what you quoted me on? Did I say it didn't? :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Oh, I see. So the way this game works is, you declare something...anything...to promote your stance on an issue, and the burden is on me to look it up and verify it for you. I see. I've been in plenty of discussions with plenty of intelligent people, and the overwhelming majority of them had absolutely no problem with presenting evidence to back their claims. If you expect me to look up every single thing you say is true, just because you say it's true, we're pretty much done here.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
I can tell you that Unicorns exist, that it's common knowledge and that your disagreeing showcases your ignorance. I could tell you that the truth has been uncovered, and that everyone knows it but you. Then, when there doesn't seem to be any documentation about it, I can talk about how you're unable to help yourself - effectively getting you to jump through hoops to look up something that I made up right there on the spot.
It's called backing your claims, and even the most novice conversationalists understand the concept. If it's too much to ask, I'm not about to entertain a debate with you.
Why would anyone believe most plants and animals aren't on all continents? Why would anyone believe there aren't pots of gold at the end of every rainbow?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Did I say he did? Must have missed that, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
But anyway, just to humor you...
Quote:
In finishing up details on our new version of “Principles of Virology”, I came across this outdated statement in the introduction of volume 19 of “Comprehensive Virology”, written in 1984:
“Virology, as a science, having passed only recently through its descriptive phase of naming and numbering, has probably reached that stage at which relatively few new - truly new - viruses will be discovered.”
Today this statement is incorrect. Sensitive methods of genome amplification and detection have lead to the discovery of many ‘truly new’ viruses. It’s quite clear that the oceans are full of new viruses, yet to be discovered; and if we would only systematically look in wild animals, we are likely to find many more.
It would probably be accurate to say that we will be discovering new viruses for quite some time. However, the point of this post is that such predictive statements about virology are likely to be proved wrong in the future - so I will refrain from predicting.
http://www.virology.ws/?p=58
Quote:
Bacterial wilt of tomatoes caused by R. solanacearum race 1 is a serious disease in many tropical and sub-tropical regions including southern regions of the United States, and does not survive in cool temperate climates such as Canada.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/.../12hrt03a3.htm
Wow. "New species?" "Spread of pathogens based on interactions with the infected?" "Not likely to happen in small populations?" All of this is indicative of the idea that there may be plenty of viruses that aren't global yet. Plenty are localized among the flora and wildlife that harbor them.Quote:
So, for example, when farming was first developed thousands of years ago, we lived near animals for the first time. That allowed us to acquire the antigens.4 Further on in our history, when people started to congregate in cities, disease could spread rapidly for the first time. And in more recent years, things like global air travel, deforestation, wars, changes in agricultural practices, and so on, have changed our relationship with flora and fauna. So new diseases emerged. HIV is a great example. It looks very likely that the change in land use in West Africa—when logging in proximity to monkey habitats—people acquired their viruses.
=====================
Why do some pathogens infect millions while others do not?
Disease is related to population size and density.
Holmes: There are a number of very critical evolutionary parameters. One of the most important—and why I mentioned previously that human evolutionary ecology has changed—is population size and density. From a human ecology standpoint, the more hosts you have, and the denser they are, the more likely the pathogen can get through and spread. So put in another way, when you are infected by a pathogen, the virus needs a new host to infect to keep itself going. If you have a small population, that is not that likely to happen. If you have a bigger population, you have more chances of transmitting the disease.
Measles can’t survive in some locations.
There have been some amazing studies of measles in populations. Some years ago scientists looked at islands and discovered an amazing statistic. They showed that measles can sustain itself on islands with a population size of something like 300,000 people. Below that number, measles dies out because there are not enough hosts for the virus to maintain itself. Above 300,000, it can keep itself going. So ecology plays a big role in disease.
http://www.actionbioscience.org/newf...rs/holmes.html
At least, this is what I gather. If I'm wrong, provide me with information to the contrary. If you refuse to do that then this is simply a waste of time...however enlightening. :chuckle:
Yeah, see this proves to me that you don't understand what we're saying. There are always new species being created, and those are the ones that make people sick. But those are small in number compared to the millions of species of bacteria (and viruses) in existence. And no, I don't have sources to back that up. Maybe you should check a high school biology textbook if you really want to see it in print.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Ah, yes. Because we all know how hard all that information in high school biology books is to find on the internet. Interesting that you "don't have the sources" when it's something so academically important as to be put in a high school biology book.Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
There's another word you might have seen in a high school biology book. "Antibody." Amazingly enough, there's information about it on the internet.
Surprisingly enough, this goes against your claim that:Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
In that context, foreign means not from your body, not completely unknown to the immune system, which is what I meant. I'm surprised you need help with word meanings now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Why would I need you to verify something I find as obvious? I don't need verification of something that's obvious to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Ok, so you say there's no articles over viruses being world wide? Have you ever tried to type "cases of the common cold around the world," or anything like that in a search engine? I'm pretty sure you'll find something. I'll give you a few examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I typed "is the common cold all over the world." I found this.
I typed "AIDS around the world." I found this.Quote:
The common cold is the most frequently occurring illness in the world, and it is a leading cause of doctor visits and missed days from school and work.
I typed "is E.coli worldwide." I found this.Quote:
HIV and AIDS have spread to become a global problem threatening every country in the world.
Quote:
Researchers have actively been working to develop safe, effective vaccines to lower the worldwide incidence of E. coli infection
He said "most" viruses and bacteria are international, he didn't say "all." I really don't see where you're trying to take this. The word "most" doesn't necessarily have to include the viruses in the ocean that's yet to be discovered. By the way, what's a virus we've gotten from plants so far?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
By your statement about antibodies, do you think antibodies fight every foreign form of bacteria and viruses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I mean, if that were true, we would be immune to everything in the world.
Don't be. When people refuse to substantiate their claims, and pretty much expect the conversations to go "it's true because I say it's true. Deal with it" then is it so hard to understand that I may not get where they're coming from all the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
Rhetorical question.
Of course you don't. I said we're done here. He wants to spout off made-up statistics, and you want to do 80% of his speaking for him, while neither of you want to offer anything to back anything you're saying. I neither know enough or care enough about the subject to continue with that sort of childish debate. I don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously if you refuse to substantiate anything you claim. If you don't care whether or not they do, why bother talking in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Again, rhetorical question.
Wow. How many times is that now that you've touted me as saying something I didn't say?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
There it is again.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
Don't tell me you want me to expand on something now, after you took the "screw you, you can find your own information" stance, a second ago (though whether or not I actually can is beside the point. Heh). Classic.Quote:
By the way, what's a virus we've gotten from plants so far?
No I don't. I suspect that some weaker pathogens can be fought off - with what sort of effectiveness, I have no idea, but that's neither here nor there. I think it's safe to say that we're not going to get anywhere, here. Just the fact that we've gotten where we are, simply from my asking drewman to back an assertion with something verifiable, is pretty pathetic, in it's own right. So I'm done. :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
I provided links for you. It wasn't that hard to type what I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Yeah, you're totally right. If anything, it probably helps you in the long run since it builds up your immune system. It's funny though, because all of my friends who I grew up with since a young age who had paranoid, germaphobe parents are the people who get sick way more often than anyone I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
nitsuJ just sounds like a bitch scared of poopy water.
LMAO
Oh, right, I'm a scared bitch because I don't like drinking fecal matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
LOLOLOL
You're almost funny.
Go eat a fat wad of Cholera.
I really just wanted to provoke a reaction. Hahahahaha - it's awesome when people give serious responses to a not-so-serious statement, isn't it?
Honestly, my intention was to humiliate you more than Oneironaut did. ;)
I don't see how I was humiliated by either of you really. Neither of you proved any points. I'd think it's more humiliating at failing at your attempt to humiliate. Valiant effort, kiddo. Better luck next post!Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
What makes you think my reply to you was so serious? Looks like I must have humiliated you instead. :(
i eat the shit that falls out of my sandwich onto the sidewalk. no use wasting pieces of chicken teriyaki over a few grains of god knows what.
i probably wouldn't eat off the floor of a macy's, unless i dropped something like an m&m...
I wasn't trying to prove any points, you duster. On top of that, you can't determine whether or not I failed at humiliating you - it's not your decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
The 'subtle' tone of being disgruntled and trying to make witty comebacks makes me think you were being serious. Also, the fact that you posted at all instead of just ignoring me. Teehee!Quote:
What makes you think my reply to you was so serious? Looks like I must have humiliated you instead. :(
*awaits the next serious post*
Actually it is my decision, I don't feel humiliated, so obviously you did fail. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
How am I disgruntled? What proof do you have other than your assumptions? It's a debate, it's not getting my boxers in a twist. If you didn't take my posts so serious, you'd ignore them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
A debate over what?
Assumptions, assumptions. Say a man is screaming at someone for no reason in a public place, everyone is watching. He doesn't feel like an idiot, but everyone that's watching him is thinking 'what a jackass.' My comment may not have humiliated you, but reading your 'argument' (if you can call it that) with Oneironaut still makes you look like a fuckin' jackass, so shut it. Just because you don't think it applies to you doesn't make it any less true - a reflection of what you just said as well as your (cough) debate with O.Quote:
Originally Posted by nistuJ
I started it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nistuJ
Psst. You suck at debating.
Well I believe I know what applies to me and what doesn't, if I said I wasn't humiliated then I wasn't humiliated. But I guess by your same logic I can say you're a moron, you can't deny that you aren't obviously. It wasn't much of a debate, I offered cold hard facts, he offered cold hard facts. We're both right in our opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
If you can't handle the truth perhaps you should deter yourself away from this thread.
How do I suck at debating? Because I supply information that puts other people's statements down? Lol logical. Hurry up and post some other type of humiliating statement.
you do know toilets are much more germ free than the average kitchen floor. So you'de get a much better immune system boost by licking the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enterer
And yea the 5 second rule is really a joke. It basically means if stuff falls on the floor pick it up an eat it.
How many times have you heard of people getting sick from food they picked up off the floor.
maybe we don't because they're all deeply fucked in an ICU somewhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofspades
Why the edit? Make a mistake while having to think out your rebuttal?Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsuJ
I actually corrected a word, why did you edit earlier, have to rethink your rebuttal? Have you offered anything substantial to this thread, or have you just came in here pursuing your e-crush on me?Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
Came here to pursue my e-crush on you, of course.
And I did contribute something worthwhile, my 'not-giving-a-fuck-of-whether-or-not-I-eat-food-off-the-ground' post way back when. Open and close of my argument - I don't feel very inspired to turn my opinion of not giving a fuck into a debate.
Not giving a fuck is definitely the way to go:Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd BlooDed
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comi...p-and-fall.png
And yes, I eat food after it's been on the floor, but only in my house.
I totally agree. I'm getting pissed off with everything begin so damn safe and healthy and protected. I'm not concerned with dropping stuff on the floor and eating it. I do it all the time. Why not take risks? Safety isn't everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
I only go by the 5 second rule if the food was on the ground for less than 5 seconds. If it's on the ground longer I have to switch to the 10 second rule.