Thread: 5 second rule

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I don't think most of you realize just what is on most floors. It's true that the chances of getting infected with something are small, as they usually are, but eating food off the floor increases those odds by an order of magnitude. So, if every bite of food normally has a (numbers made up) 0.0001% chance of giving you a bacterial infection, a bite of food off the floor might be at 0.001%. Still low, but higher.

I realize whats on my floor. Germs and bacteria. But theres no reason to be afraid of germs and bacteria. At least if you have a strong immune system there isn't. But if you constantly avoid germs your immune system will be weak.

Go eat something with E.coli or Salmonella and see how well your immune system holds up.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I don't think most of you realize just what is on most floors. It's true that the chances of getting infected with something are small, as they usually are, but eating food off the floor increases those odds by an order of magnitude. So, if every bite of food normally has a (numbers made up) 0.0001% chance of giving you a bacterial infection, a bite of food off the floor might be at 0.001%. Still low, but higher.

It's not that many of us don't realize what's on most floors. It's that many of us don't care, granting the floor is not completely foreign and at least isn't just undeniably filthy. Seriously, how many people have you heard of that got extremely sick from eating something off the floor? How many people have you heard of that got extremely sick because they didn't wash their hands before eating, even after they went to the bathroom? Sure, it's a "gamble," but not one that merits all the germophobia that we see on a regular basis in modern society. I don't really think anyone here is talking about dropping a scoop of ice cream on a barn floor and licking it up.

If I play football in the street, the chance of my getting hit by a car is significantly higher than if I was playing in a grassy field. Doesn't quite mean I'm going to avoid playing in the street.

i go by the ten minute rule.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I don't think most of you realize just what is on most floors. It's true that the chances of getting infected with something are small, as they usually are, but eating food off the floor increases those odds by an order of magnitude. So, if every bite of food normally has a (numbers made up) 0.0001% chance of giving you a bacterial infection, a bite of food off the floor might be at 0.001%. Still low, but higher.

meh i tend to not really eat stuff off the floor. Usually the floor is just too nasty or it really isn't worth it. If its just a little tiny piece of food than meh its not worth it. But if my steak falls on the floor than ill pick it up and eat it lol.

But I tend to be more inclined to eat other people's food. There is so much germs and shit thats around you that it really doesn't matter to me. As long as the guy whos food im eating isnt sick than its fair game.

Are you going to finish that?

My criteria

1. The person isn't sick.
2. The food is a desierable food.
3. The guy didn't spit on it.

PS: stonedape, thanks for making my day with a george carlin clip....i love him.

armpits, asshole, crotch, and teeth HAHAHA

Oh, look what was on Yahoo's front page!

Personally, I never quite trusted that 5-second food-dropped-on-the-floor rule, and I think it's rude to double-dip a chip (just take another!). But how bad are these things, really? To find out, I asked experts to reveal the truth behind some of the most common health rumors still making their way 'round the watercooler (and the Internet). Here's what you need to worry about, what you don't, and what's just plain gross. (Hint: The critters living on your kitchen floor can't tell time.)

Myth: It's safe to follow the 5-second rule
Verdict: Fiction. It's probably not safe to eat anything that's been on the floor for even 1 second. In a recent experiment, food scientists contaminated several surfaces with Salmonella. They then dropped pieces of bologna and slices of bread on the floor for as little as 5 seconds (and as long as 60). In 5 seconds, both the bread and the bologna picked up an alarming 1,800 types of bacteria. So unless you sterilize your floors on an hourly basis, don't eat anything your shoes have touched, too. (Here are some speed tips on cleaning.)

Myth: Double-dipping spreads germs from one chip to another
Verdict: Fact. Although this social faux pas may feel dated -- Seinfeld's George Costanza is the most famous double-dipper -- swiping a chip into dip, taking a bite, and then dipping the same chip again, is, in fact, a very effective way to spread germs. Having settled the 5-second rule debate, those same intrepid food scientists, using Wheat Thins and various dips, found that a double-dip deposited thousands of saliva bacteria into the dip. Of those, 50 to 100 were later transferred through the dip to a clean cracker, presumably destined for another guest's mouth. In short: Eating from a dip after someone has dipped twice is basically the same as kissing that person. (Here are some easy, delicious dips that are won't hurt your waistline -- just make sure your guests only dip once!)


Cell phones can interfere with medical equipment
Verdict: Jury's Out. There's a chance that a cell phone call made in the wrong spot in a hospital can cause ventilators, syringe pumps, or even pacemakers to pulse incorrectly, according to a 2007 Dutch study. The researchers tested cell phones, including PDAs that use wireless Internet signals, just a few centimeters from devices; 43% caused electromagnetic interference with critical care equipment -- and a third of those instances could be potentially life-threatening to patients. Though a similar study didn't yield these same results, if you want a clear conscience, use a designated cell phone area. (Find out how your zip code and hospital care are interrelated.)


Cracking your knuckles can cause arthritis
Verdict: Fiction. This nervous tic may be annoying, but it's not likely to cause arthritis. One study at the former Mount Carmel Mercy Hospital in Detroit compared 74 people (age 45 and older) who had been chronic knuckle crackers for decades with 226 who always left their hands alone. Researchers found no difference in the incidence of osteoarthritis between the two groups. But there are reasons to stop this cringe-inducing habit: The same study found that knuckle crackers are much more likely to have weaker grip strength and greater hand swelling, both of which can limit dexterity. (Here are some home remedies for osteoarthritis.)

1) The surface was intentionally infected with salmonella.

2) Does it say anywhere that any of the 1,800 types of bacteria that were picked up were harmful in any way?

I think that it's important for everyone to have standards that they live by. One of mine is not eating anything that fell on the floor.

Not particularly alarming if they don't tell us how many types of bacteria are typically on a piece of food to give us any kind of reference. Another bollocks statistic. Wouldn't be very different to clean food I reckon.

Also I don't think dropping the piece of food on a surface they'd swamped with salmanella is particularly representative of the average floor? :\

Justin, they had the exact same article on MSN a month ago. It's what inspired me to start this thread. It had the exact same topics. Fucking news. Green party Germaphobe propaganda. I can't beleive these people who are afraid of germs and bacteria. It's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

1) The surface was intentionally infected with salmonella.

2) Does it say anywhere that any of the 1,800 types of bacteria that were picked up were harmful in any way?

Yes, intentionally, it's called an experiment. They were showing people it doesn't take long for bacteria to get onto food.

No it doesn't tell anywhere that the 1,800 types of bacteria were harmful. I'm sure there's a good chance some of them were though.

Originally Posted by Xei

Not particularly alarming if they don't tell us how many types of bacteria are typically on a piece of food to give us any kind of reference. Another bollocks statistic. Wouldn't be very different to clean food I reckon.

Also I don't think dropping the piece of food on a surface they'd swamped with salmanella is particularly representative of the average floor? :\

No, it's not the average floor. It was an experiment, I don't think they were trying to simulate every floor in the world.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Justin, they had the exact same article on MSN a month ago. It's what inspired me to start this thread. It had the exact same topics. Fucking news. Green party Germaphobe propaganda. I can't beleive these people who are afraid of germs and bacteria. It's ridiculous.

All they're doing is showing people it doesn't take 5 seconds for bacteria to attach itself to food that's been dropped on the floor, it barely even takes a second.

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The fact still remains bacteria is always present on a floor, even if it's sterilized regularly. It's all up to the person whether they want to eat something off of the floor that's been infested with more bacteria than it originally had, or if they want to throw it away. I wouldn't call it germaphobia, it's more like not wanting to eat bacteria. I can see a person eating something off the floor in their own house, if the floors are regularly cleaned and they don't have any pets roaming around inside the house, but in a restaurant or some other foreign place other than their household, eating food off the floor is just stupid in my opinion. There's no telling what's been on those floors, imagine all the shoes stepping all over the floor and what's been on those shoes. Oh, yeah, so I stepped in some dog poo outside and tracked it inside the building, who cares? I'll still eat the food that fell in the same place. Some foods are obviously safer than others if dropped on the floor, like dry foods (crackers, cookies, chips, etc. etc.) are safer than moist foods (cheese, ice cream, apples, etc. etc. etc.), because the moist foods will have more bacteria on them than the dry. Dropping food on the floor will increase the chances of you getting sick, although it's still possible it won't be a really high risk. All I know is that I hope you people wouldn't eat food that's dropped in poo. Of course if you didn't though, I guess you're a germaphobe.

I guess by the same standards you are all using, since it's probably not going to get really dirty on the floor, would you take a shot glass and put it into a flowing stream and drink that water? I don't really see why you wouldn't, because after all it's only a shot glass full of water, not like a lot of harmful bacteria will be in it! Just don't let water flow inside of it for more than 5 seconds. LOL!

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I've listed the most common foodborne illnesses caused by bacteria. For a bigger list, including common, and less common, look here.

Clostridium perfringens (THE CAFETERIA GERM)

Clostridium perfringens (formerly known as Clostridium welchii) is a Gram-positive, rod-shaped, anaerobic, spore-forming bacterium of the genus Clostridium. C. perfringens is ubiquitous in nature and can be found as a normal component of decaying vegetation, marine sediment, the intestinal tract of humans and other vertebrates, insects, and soil. Virtually every soil sample ever examined, with the exception of the sands of the Sahara, has contained C. perfringens.

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Some strains of C. perfringens produce toxins which cause food poisoning if ingested. In the United Kingdom and United States they are the third most common cause of food-borne illness, with poorly prepared meat and poultry the main culprits in harboring the bacterium.[3] The clostridial enterotoxin mediating the disease is often heat-resistant and can be detected in contaminated food and feces.[4]

Incubation time is between 8 and 16 hours after ingestion of contaminated food. Manifestions typically include abdominal cramping and diarrhea - vomiting and fever are unusual. The whole course usually resolves within 24 hours. Very rare, fatal cases of clostridial necrotizing enteritis have been known to involve "Type C" strains of the organism, which produce a potently ulcerative β-toxin.

It is likely that many cases of C. perfringens food poisoning remain sub clinical, as antibodies to the toxin are common amongst the population. This has led to the conclusion that most, if not all, of the population has experienced food poisoning due to C. perfringens.[3]

On July 14, 2008, Australian officials listed C. perfringens as the cause of an outbreak at Endeavour Nursing Home in Springwood, NSW where 80 individuals had become sick, and 10 later died. As of this date, the details are not clear.

C. jejuni

Campylobacter jejuni is a species of curved, rod-shaped, non-spore forming, Gram-negative microaerophilic, bacteria commonly found in animal feces.[1] It is one of the most common causes of human gastroenteritis in the world. Food poisoning caused by Campylobacter species can be severely debilitating but is rarely life-threatening. It has been linked with subsequent development of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), which usually develops two to three weeks after the initial illness.

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C. jejuni is commonly associated with poultry and naturally colonises the GI tract of many bird species. It has also been isolated from wombat and kangaroo feces, being a cause of bushwalkers' diarrhea. Contaminated drinking water and unpasteurized milk provide an efficient means for distribution. Contaminated food is a major source of isolated infections, with incorrectly prepared meat and poultry normally the source of the bacteria.

Infection with C. jejuni usually results in enteritis, which is characterised by abdominal pain, diarrhea, fever, and malaise. The symptoms usually persist for between 24 hours and a week, but may be longer. Diarrhea can vary in severity from loose stools to bloody stools. No antibiotics are usually given as the disease is self-limiting, however, severe or prolonged cases may require ciprofloxacin, erythromycin or norfloxacin. Fluid and electrolyte replacement may be required for serious cases.

Salmonella

Disease-causing Salmonella species have recently been re-classified into a single species, Salmonella enterica, which has numerous serovars. Salmonella Typhi causes typhoid fever. Other salmonellae are frequent causes of foodborne illness, especially from poultry and raw eggs and more generally from food that has been cooked or frozen and not eaten straight away. Although most non-typhoidal strains associated with food-borne infection are self-limiting and do not require antibiotics, complicated or systemic infection and infection with specific serovars (such as Typhi) are indications for antibiotic treatment and often hospitalization. The long-term usage of antibiotics in both the poultry and beef industries may have created a strain of salmonella which is potentially resistant to antibiotics.

Escherichia coli O157:H7

Escherichia coli O157:H7 is an enterohemorrhagic strain of the bacterium Escherichia coli and a cause of foodborne illness. Based on a 1999 estimate, there are 73,000 cases of infection and about 60 deaths caused by E.coli O157:H7 each year in the United States. Infection often leads to bloody diarrhea, and occasionally to kidney failure, especially in young children and elderly people. Most illness has been associated with eating undercooked, contaminated ground beef, drinking unpasteurized milk, swimming in or drinking contaminated water, and eating contaminated vegetables.

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I figured I'd post this because it's a pretty cool finding.

Five-second Rule (MythBusters):

Myth Statement:
The "Five-second rule" is valid when it comes to food dropped on the floor.

Verdict:
Busted

Notes:
This myth yielded a varied number of results, but in the definitive test where the only variable was time, the myth was definitively busted. There was no real difference in the number of bacteria collected from 2 seconds exposure as there was from 6 seconds exposure.

Myth Statement:
The toilet seat is the cleanest place in the house.

Verdict:
Confirmed

Notes:
Adam tested this myth just out of curiosity. When the results were compared to the bacteria samples from the "Five Second Rule" tests, the toilet seat actually proved cleaner than all other surfaces tested.

Yeah, it's not like germs have killed more humans than any other cause in history, including war, famine, and old age...oh wait.

Too bad we don't have this system in our bodies that fights germs. If you avoid all contact with germs your immune system will be weak. We live in a fairly clean society. At least my house is clean.

About the whole Germs and Bacteria kill you thing...your wrong. Wash with Dial soap, and come tell me that your hands aren't dry. Also while you're at it, stop eating yogurt and cheese. And while you're at that, stop living. Truth is, you can't live with ought some bacteria.

Ok, wait...I'm confused now.

Is this thread about the myth that it takes 5-seconds for bacteria to get onto food (which I don't think anyone here has implied was false) or that eating something that fell on the floor isn't "safe"? The two are completely different issues.

Personally, I've never taken the "5-second rule" that literally. I've always looked at it as a joke - another way of saying "Oh well, no big deal" and picking something up that dropped on a moderately non-filthy surface. If anyone is saying that food can catch germs before those 5-seconds, I'm not disputing that.

However, I do think the danger is highly over-stated.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

I guess by the same standards you are all using, since it's probably not going to get really dirty on the floor, would you take a shot glass and put it into a flowing stream and drink that water? I don't really see why you wouldn't, because after all it's only a shot glass full of water, not like a lot of harmful bacteria will be in it! Just don't let water flow inside of it for more than 5 seconds. LOL!

Do you have any idea how much bacteria you ingest everyday? By the logic of "avoid it because it has bacteria on it," how sheltered would your life be? Did you know that the ice that comes out of soda fountains in even some of the cleanest fast-food chains in the planet have more bacteria than most toilet water? If you've gone all day doing God knows what, and then you realize you have a cut on your lip, do you rush to a sink to wash and sanitize your hands before stretching your lip in a mirror to investigate the wound? How often do you wash your hands after handling money?

The point is that bacteria is everywhere. There is no steering clear of it. 5-second-rule scenarios are never objective, because you are bound to pick up more germs doing everyday activities. I have no problem with someone saying they won't pick up something that's fallen on the floor and eat it because they just believe it to be nasty. That's all fine and good. But when people start touting the "dangers of germs" and "but it's got bacteria on it!" as if they are going to become noticeably infected with something because they picked up a potato chip that fell on their living room floor, I have to kind of roll my eyes at them.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

\]
Personally, I've never taken the "5-second rule" that literally. I've always looked at it as a joke - another way of saying "Oh well, no big deal" and picking something up that dropped on a moderately non-filthy surface. If anyone is saying that food can catch germs before those 5-seconds, I'm not disputing that.

However, I do think the danger is highly over-stated.

This is what the thread is about. People seem to forget how the immune system works.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I don't think most of you realize just what is on most floors. It's true that the chances of getting infected with something are small, as they usually are, but eating food off the floor increases those odds by an order of magnitude. So, if every bite of food normally has a (numbers made up) 0.0001% chance of giving you a bacterial infection, a bite of food off the floor might be at 0.001%. Still low, but higher.

avoiding every day bacteria makes you more susceptible to the more aggressive bacteria out there.

It's all about drawing a line, right? I mean how many of you drink out of public toilets to boost your immune system?

Originally Posted by stonedape

Too bad we don't have this system in our bodies that fights germs. If you avoid all contact with germs your immune system will be weak. We live in a fairly clean society. At least my house is clean.

So, you're denying that infectious disease is the number one all-time killer of humans? Or are you denying that most humans die of infectious disease in places/times where eating food off the floor is common (eg. modern Africa, 14th century Europe)?

Originally Posted by drewmandan

So, you're denying that infectious disease is the number one all-time killer of humans? Or are you denying that most humans die of infectious disease in places/times where eating food off the floor is common (eg. modern Africa, 14th century Europe)?

I don't think anyone is denying that.

If you are never exposed to germs in your life, when you do, your immune system will be overwhelmed by them and you will succumb to whatever it is and get sick. If you instead had a healthy immune system, it would fight off these germs and you would not get sick.

Like what The Enterer said, it's just about drawing lines. I won't drink out of the toilet, or wipe my ass with my hand, and then eat a sandwich. But I will eat stuff off the floor, and only wash my hands after I poop, or before preparing food.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

I don't think anyone is denying that.

If you are never exposed to germs in your life, when you do, your immune system will be overwhelmed by them and you will succumb to whatever it is and get sick. If you instead had a healthy immune system, it would fight off these germs and you would not get sick.

Like what The Enterer said, it's just about drawing lines. I won't drink out of the toilet, or wipe my ass with my hand, and then eat a sandwich. But I will eat stuff off the floor, and only wash my hands after I poop, or before preparing food.

But the main argument for eating off the floor is essentially that I'm screwing my immune system if I don't. But that's clearly not true. Your immune system will not be better off in any significant way from doing that.

You understand the concept of diminishing returns, right? I posit that simply breathing the air on Earth brings the immune system up to like 99% of its potential, and eating off the floor might bring you up to 100% (not 100% healthy, but 100% "germ-fighting capability") but then increases risk tenfold.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

But the main argument for eating off the floor is essentially that I'm screwing my immune system if I don't.

No...the main argument for eating off of many floors is that there's little reason, if any, to feel that you'd be adversely affected by doing it, unless you're in absolutely filthy conditions.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

You understand the concept of diminishing returns, right? I posit that simply breathing the air on Earth brings the immune system up to like 99% of its potential, and eating off the floor might bring you up to 100% (not 100% healthy, but 100% "germ-fighting capability") but then increases risk tenfold.

I don't know about that. Since it seems, at first glance (correct me if I'm wrong), that the most potent bacteria isn't airborne. That statistic (though I know it's made up) seems a little one-sided, don't you think?

The main arguemnet for eating food off the floor is to not be wasteful. It's not that your screwing your immune system by not eating off the floor, it's just one of the many habits people have to avoid all germs. But You aren't increasing your risk of getting sick by any significant amount either.

The breathing example makes no sense either because if I breath air where I live and am at 99%, then I would have a 100% chance of being sick if I went on vacation to China. My neighbors just got back from there a few weeks ago and did not get sick.

Originally Posted by stonedape

The breathing example makes no sense either because if I breath air where I live and am at 99%, then I would have a 100% chance of being sick if I went on vacation to China. My neighbors just got back from there a few weeks ago and did not get sick.

That's a good point.