Why Argue?

I've been musing about this for a couple days now... Why are we so eager to argue about our own points of view in threads? I'm not denying that I'm not one of them. I've always wanted to believe that by expressing my "right" opinion, it would change other peoples' "wrong" opinion. I've come to the conclusion though that you're never really going to change anyone's minds on most matters, because they're trying to change your mind. They're just as set in their opinions as you are in yours. So why argue at all? Do we argue for that invigorated, adrenal feeling we get when we're fervently typing away a reply at our keyboards? Do we enjoy that vague feeling of superiority we get over that other person while we're posting? While typing, we might think to ourselves: "If only they knew what I knew, they'd be as intelligent as me." Maybe some of us argue for the chance to organize our thoughts into words with the desire of forming a more solid, sturdy opinion without contradictions. Maybe we simply argue with others to piss them the hell off. I don't know. All I know is why I argue and continue to argue. I'm not saying these particular musings are the reasons why you personally argue, and I'm not saying that your arguing is pointless and stupid. Finally, I sincerely hope people don't take this post the wrong way. I didn't write this with the intention of coming off as some bitter, angry chick who hates the "extended discussion" section, I simply thought it'd be an interesting topic to bring up. I hope you agree too (or I may have to argue with you :P)

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Originally Posted by victorybear

I've been musing about this for a couple days now... Why are we so eager to argue about our own points of view in threads? I'm not denying that I'm not one of them. I've always wanted to believe that by expressing my "right" opinion, it would change other peoples' "wrong" opinion. I've come to the conclusion though that you're never really going to change anyone's minds on most matters, because they're trying to change your mind. They're just as set in their opinions as you are in yours. So why argue at all? Do we argue for that invigorated, adrenal feeling we get when we're fervently typing away a reply at our keyboards? Do we enjoy that vague feeling of superiority we get over that other person while we're posting? While typing, we might think to ourselves: "If only they knew what I knew, they'd be as intelligent as me." Maybe some of us argue for the chance to organize our thoughts into words with the desire of forming a more solid, sturdy opinion without contradictions. Maybe we simply argue with others to piss them the hell off. I don't know. All I know is why I argue and continue to argue. I'm not saying these particular musings are the reasons why you personally argue, and I'm not saying that your arguing is pointless and stupid. Finally, I sincerely hope people don't take this post the wrong way. I didn't write this with the intention of coming off as some bitter, angry chick who hates the "extended discussion" section, I simply thought it'd be an interesting topic to bring up. I hope you agree too (or I may have to argue with you :P)

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U WUNT 2 ARGUE FUKER? ii DUNT LiiK HAW U AKT, OK KiiD?











No, just kidding. I think people argue to try and show their own opinions and try to change others' opinions like you said. Or perhaps sometimes people say things that are illogical and people get into arguments with them over that, or maybe they're trolls and get a kick out of how angry they can make people get, there are numerous reasons.

I think though most people are set in their ways and are trying to prove it from their point of view. Everyone on here has a certain POV about something, and most are probably arguing trying to get their skeptics to see their POV.

I've thought about this a good bit myself.

Personally, I'm trying to change others' opinions, simple as that. It's not necessarily about intellectual superiority. Perhaps it was some time ago, but not anymore. I think people (tend to) mature beyond that after a certain amount of time. It's hard to shake entirely, but for the most part it's not the purpose. Now it's all about the issues and ideals, battles of our time, as I see them of course.

Perhaps some of it is a non-superior pride in intellectual abilities, like: hey, look at what I figured out. I am proud of my creation and want to show it around.

I have questioned the usefulness of "arguing". At some level I know it can work. I have personally changed views based on another's argument, and have seen others do the same. But I wonder if it's really the best way. Many times it fails. Pure argument - debate - should work each the most efficiently, but it's hard to really get two people at that level of objectivity and rationality.

Ultimately, the best method is, in my opinion, opinion sharing. Not arguing, not trying to change minds, just explaining your point of view, your perspective. Self-expression, not attempts to change minds. In the end it will probably change more minds anyway. People are more willing to listen when they aren't on the defensive.

Funny how that works.

Funny how I still can't do it most of the time, too. You get heated, upset, emotional about issues; it's hard to let go.

People need to convince themselves in buying the product, no?

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Originally Posted by DNK

Ultimately, the best method is, in my opinion, opinion sharing. Not arguing, not trying to change minds, just explaining your point of view, your perspective. Self-expression, not attempts to change minds. In the end it will probably change more minds anyway. People are more willing to listen when they aren't on the defensive.

Funny how that works.

Funny how I still can't do it most of the time, too. You get heated, upset, emotional about issues; it's hard to let go.

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Yeah, I think you're totally right. Now that I look back on it, most of the times I've ever changed someone's mind or vice versa, it was in the situation you've described. It's funny because I've never actually sat down and thought about it like that, even though it's kind of obvious when you think about it. ;-)

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Originally Posted by nitsuJ

U WUNT 2 ARGUE FUKER? ii DUNT LiiK HAW U AKT, OK KiiD?

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Haha, I can't believe I fell for that! XD

::cough cough:: Anyway, yeah, I see what you're saying. I've seen some nasty stuff in some of the threads, and it really gets to me whenever I see it. Then again, I'm not really above that kind of posting though either. :? I wish there was an easy way to resolve it.

Just because in 99% of forum discussions people don't change their minds doesn't mean they also don't change their mind that 1%. Actually, I am pretty certain quite some people that argued alot on the off-topic sections of dreamviews changed their mind drastically.

I know that every 99 bullshit posts I come across one good one that makes me think differently, or at least makes me reflect more about my current opinion, something that's never a bad thing to do.

I argue here because I hope that one of my hundreds of posts will make someone stop and reflect on the garbage they just posted, and they might think "Huh, I was wrong. I wonder what else I might be wrong about?".

When it comes to meta-physics - go your heart out. I won't stop you. But when people sprout false-truths (especially when talking about science), I feel it's my duty as an educator to tell them why they are wrong. Not to put on a show of being superior to them - just to educate. No one wins if we let people stay stupid shit without it being challenged and evalutated.

well I know what you mean. I have made a few posts and had an argument and been like hey yea I never looked at it that way.

We all need to stop being so stubborn and see the other point of an argument. We have to see that sometimes we aren't always right.

But typically I argue because I am bored and it passes time. And sometimes its fun but I am not trying to piss you off I am just trying to express my views and get someone to express their's.

But yes its about sharing your opinon that is always the way to change someone's mind. Thats the problem i have with all these enviormental groups. They don't understand that catchy slogans and all that stuff will never change somoen's mind.

And definitely not name calling and bickering.

I wish everyone would just calm down. Its a forum...its just to have fun!

*cheers*!

Well..when I can tell someone is just trolling I take a deep breathe and remind myself that "someone" else will reply for me.

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Originally Posted by Sandform

Well..when I can tell someone is just trolling I take a deep breathe and remind myself that "someone" else will reply for me.

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That's true :D nothing like watching two other people go at it. Saves you all the trouble.

I like to argue, it's fun to battle your point of view against others, like a giant gladiator pit of thoughts, and it's totaly awesome when your opponent is like... a small little weakling with a fish, and your a giant rippling gladiator with a mithral sword and cool battle cries.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

I argue here because I hope that one of my hundreds of posts will make someone stop and reflect on the garbage they just posted, and they might think "Huh, I was wrong. I wonder what else I might be wrong about?".

When it comes to meta-physics - go your heart out. I won't stop you. But when people sprout false-truths (especially when talking about science), I feel it's my duty as an educator to tell them why they are wrong. Not to put on a show of being superior to them - just to educate. No one wins if we let people stay stupid shit without it being challenged and evalutated.

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Well, what makes you right and the other person wrong? it's all based on point of views. People word things differently and it sounds wrong but what they are saying is what you say except your view is said a different way then theirs. It's just arguing on what way sounds better.

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Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Well, what makes you right and the other person wrong? it's all based on point of views. People word things differently and it sounds wrong but what they are saying is what you say except your view is said a different way then theirs. It's just arguing on what way sounds better.

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When we're talking about science, there is only one right answer. You can't put interpretation into solid facts.

Just look at one of the other threads in R/S, where someone said that animals seem to get a higher level of emotional awareness and consciousness just by "being around humans". This is - just - plain - wrong. It's not a point of view - it's just flat wrong.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

When we're talking about science, there is only one right answer. You can't put interpretation into solid facts.

Just look at one of the other threads in R/S, where someone said that animals seem to get a higher level of emotional awareness and consciousness just by "being around humans". This is - just - plain - wrong. It's not a point of view - it's just flat wrong.

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I agree with you for the most part. You can't have an argument that a single water molecule has 10 hydrogen atoms in it because it simply doesn't. There's nothing to argue about, since it has hard, objective scientific evidence backing it up. But not everything scientific has one definite, truthful answer. There are things (like that example you gave about whether animals have feelings) that just hasn't and probably can never be proven scientifically. And how can it? We can't ask the animal, or dissect it for the answer, and observing it and how it responds to situations is subjective depending on the person observing them. Thus from a scientific perspective, to say that animals do not feel emotions is a theory, not a fact and can be fairly argued about.

Arguementation is to figure out who is wrong, and who is right.

I try to avoid arguing whenever I can. I find it's a lot more interesting to have a normal discussion about something. Although when someone says something I consider to be untrue, I try help them see why I find their statement to be untrue, or to see why a different view is more accurate. [son of a bitch I just dropped a coal on my night stand. Typing and fiddling with a hookah is a bad combo]. I think arguments definitely help people tie up any loose ends in their beliefs that they may have been previously unaware of. But you can do the same without arguing.

I think arguments are the result of people being too attached to their thoughts. This attachment can make someone feel personally attacked, when it was just an idea that was being challenged. I like to think that you are not your beliefs and ideas, they just come and go.

Just like the tango, it takes two to argue. You don't have to get sucked into the negativity trap. Just be ready for it and it'll be easier to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Schmaven

You don't have to get sucked into the negativity trap.

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That's true. My method of avoiding the negativity traps is being the one that sets them.

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Originally Posted by Mark75

That's true. My method of avoiding the negativity traps is being the one that sets them.

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lol that's awesome. You can't club someone with the only club.

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

When we're talking about science, there is only one right answer. You can't put interpretation into solid facts.

Just look at one of the other threads in R/S, where someone said that animals seem to get a higher level of emotional awareness and consciousness just by "being around humans". This is - just - plain - wrong. It's not a point of view - it's just flat wrong.

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Well, i was just commenting on the bolded part. But you're right about the animal thing.