What really happened on 9/11

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No idea.The supposed "engine turbine" was found INSIDE the building. Did you see a Pratt and Whitney out here:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentag...last_holes.jpg

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I don't know enough about aircraft engine design to make a complete judgement on this. However I did find a site that discusses that image from your first post.

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And you're exactly right about strutural differences: Skyscapers are BUILT to withstand jet impacts. A flatter building like the pentagon getting hit head-one by a 757 would show MUCH more damage. The main hole is only large enough to fit the front of the fuselage in.

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The WTC was designed to withstand an accidental hit from a plane, where it would be travelling at low speed. It wasn't designed for a plane going at top speed slamming into it. Also, the impact point on the WTC was mostly steel beams and glass, compared with the much more solid exterior of the Pentagon. Against a solid surface, only objects with sufficient mass, such as the main fuselage and the engines are going to penetrate, with the rest breaking apart on impact.

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And face it, eyewitness accounts are crap. Everyday people think they see Alien Space Craft^TM.

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There's a little something called convergence of evidence. The eyewitness accounts for the most part agree with each other and the physical evidence, so they are likely to be mostly correct.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What do you say to the people who have friends and family members that were on the flights that supposedly never existed? I know some of them personally. Should I tell them that their family members weren't real?

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Yes. Bush made them up.

Some of you people give Bush way too much credit when you are not going way out of the bounds of reality in degrading him. You talk about what a total imbecile he is, then you turn around and make him out to be the biggest genius who ever lived. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Sybot

I don't know enough about aircraft engine design to make a complete judgement on this. However I did find a site that discusses that image from your first post.



The WTC was designed to withstand an accidental hit from a plane, where it would be travelling at low speed. It wasn't designed for a plane going at top speed slamming into it. Also, the impact point on the WTC was mostly steel beams and glass, compared with the much more solid exterior of the Pentagon. Against a solid surface, only objects with sufficient mass, such as the main fuselage and the engines are going to penetrate, with the rest breaking apart on impact.



There's a little something called convergence of evidence. The eyewitness accounts for the most part agree with each other and the physical evidence, so they are likely to be mostly correct.

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Interesting.

But that doesn't explain the exit holes, because the engine pieces are inside the building.

As for eyewitness accounts-- Some people claimed to see A-10s around where 93 went down, others claimed the Pentagon plane was tiny, and even some said they watched WTC2 get hit, but never say a 767 at all.

So.

http://prisonplanet.tv/

RAINBOWS!

Rainbow: An effect caused by White light being refracted through water.

No.

What? This thread has really gone downhill.

So, what do you suppose happened to the people who died on the 9/11 flights?

Apparently some 4 hijackers survived the plain crashes.

I personally don't think the official highjackers were ever on the plane. I think that the planes were full of people and did hit the building, but it was done by different people than the government says.

But lets assume for a second that seismo is right. The people who died on the 9-11 flights could have been taken to guantonomo bay, or some other secret prison. BUt what would be more likely is that these flights could have landed somewhere(like guantonamo) and executed there.

While these theories about the planes are interesting, they are not a good way to get people to see what really happened on 9/11. Focus on things like the fact that some of the highjackers are still alive. This in itself makes no sense and to me shows that whoever did the investigation was not looking for the truth.

Lol yeah they were on TV about it.

The CIA apparently couldn't even spell the names right of the hijackers so many of the names that appeared were people alive and living in the US and Middle East.

Bush was informed that a terrorist attack in New York was one of the 3 big threats facing his administration. FBI operatives that were beginning to see a plan in the works were either removed from office or silenced by other means.

I'm not even talking about photopgraphs or all the impossibilities through which the attack took place, I'm just talking about loose ends in the goverment's job of handling it because that alone is very fishy to me. I mean, either Bush is the most retarded person on the planet, or of the sickest, greediest, most inhumane people on the planet.

And people are like, "more conspiracy theories"... sarcastic response/pseudo intellectual fallacy used as an excuse not to read the argument in the first place/flame fest ensues

I mean shit, how come a bunch of pentagon desk workers were outside cleaning up evidence in their front lawn?

And the only argument I've heard so far (besides the "so the victims in the airplanes didn't exist? fallacy) is that our government wuldn't do something like this. But they have in the past.

Our government has committed bloody atrocities since the birth of this country. What is so far fetched about this one? At this point it seems more far fetched that a bunch of terrorists working for a dying black sheep of a Saudi aristocratic family committed the attacks by themselves and then all forensic evidence magically disappeared but somehow a passport survived.

It's like aafter Kennedy died and the patzy was shot by the mob before he even got to trial making it nice and easy to close the case without having to work with any evidence or a jury of peers or some nonsense. It's the same case here, there's a bunch of evidence that doesn't fit the official report unless they use the word magic several times, but everyone buys it anyway because it's "official"

Well you've all been officially shit on by your own government.

That's hard to believe since the planes were tracked by radar the whole time. The whole "secret prison" execution thing feels too incredible. Especially without actual proof.

The government knew the attacks would happen. Then they lied and said that the whole scenario was unimaginable. The fighters didn't do anything about it, the Pentagon wasn't protected by it's missle defence system, the plane somehow did impossible maneuvers, did a hole smaller then its size, they confiscated any other videos of the pentagon attack and released only crappy ones etc.

You'd have to be pretty brainwashed to believe the official explanation.

Yeah I was just entertaining ideas. I think that the planes were actually highjacked and crashed into the buildings and the people died. I don't see why they wouldn't have, it would have just made things overly complicated.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Interesting.

But that doesn't explain the exit holes, because the engine pieces are inside the building.

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Perhaps the engine broke up as it went through the building, so parts fell off midway through.

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As for eyewitness accounts-- Some people claimed to see A-10s around where 93 went down, others claimed the Pentagon plane was tiny, and even some said they watched WTC2 get hit, but never say a 767 at all.

So.

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It was a traumatic day, some witnesses can be expected to misremember details. That's why the other evidence is looked at so we can see which of the witness statements overlap with it.

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Originally Posted by Bonsay

Apparently some 4 hijackers survived the plain crashes.

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None of the hijackers are alive. Read this, particularly the "Hijackers still alive?" part.

So, let's just say the U.S. did commit terrorism on themselves. Why did they kill the people on the flights and in the buildings? What was the motive? So they could go to war in Afghanistan?

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Bush said Iraq was "weapons of mass destruction," which was a lie. Then Bush turned around and said he attacked Iraq for the "protection and respect" of the UN, or some garbage like that.

There's a really good video over this conspiracy thing that shows the Pentagon and talks about it, it examines the holes and everything else, I'll find it later and post if you haven't already seen it.

lol yea.

That'd be great if you could find that vid :)

Check this one out in the meantime. It may seem kind of dry but stick around for the money shot.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Iraq for oil. Etc... The people that died were simply casualties for the story.

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Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

Eh, I don't remember the name of the video or anything. I have dial-up so I won't look through them all to find it, but here's a search. I'm sure it's on there somewhere because Youtube is where I first saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=9%2F11+conspiracy&search_type =&aq=-1&oq=

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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Look, I'm a not a Neo Conservative, so I can't tell you why. They're a bunch of warmongers.

Invading Iraq, which is rich in oil, for no good official reason is just... Bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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The rich are richer than ever. These people don't give a fuck about poor working class people. Rich people make money off of war, they are selfish, they do not care about other people.

We live in an oligarchy. Money is power in this country because in order to gain power you have to spend a lot of money.

It's not the entire government doing this, just a few people inside it. Like the neo cons as the video and some others have metioned.

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Originally Posted by Bayside

Do you know how much oil and money they've wasted in the war effort? That hardly seems plausible to me. America is more in debt now then they've ever been.

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America as a whole, yes. But check the bottom line of any company that produces guns, tanks, army supplies etc etc.

When your product is an instrument of war/occupation...

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Originally Posted by drewmandan

RAINBOWS!

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OH MY GOD! Freemasons! New world order! 9/11! Skull and Bones! UFOs! Economic Downfall! 2012! End of the World! Invasion of Mexicans!