a very disgusting side of humans.

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Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I'm all for protecting children, my question is how society should treat a completely peaceful nice person [with no intentions of carrying out anything] who happens to be attracted to children.

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That's not something I believe I'm prepared to answer. I will put the mental stability of a child over the sexual whimsy of an adult any day.

To me, the question is like asking "Well, what do we expect thugs who are addicted to money to do? Stop killing people and taking their stuff??" I say: Protect the innocent first. Those who are too inhumane to realize the consequences of their petty desires are putting themselves over those who don't deserve such imposition. Their selfishness makes them less and less worthy of my sympathy - especially when children are the victims.

Hell, I'm all for giving them access to child pornography, before actually letting them have contact with children.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's not something I believe I'm prepared to answer. I will put the mental stability of a child over the sexual whimsy of an adult any day.

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And of those children that desire such things..?

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To me, the question is like asking "Well, what do we expect thugs who are addicted to money to do? Stop killing people and taking their stuff??" I say: Protect the innocent first. Those who are too inhumane to realize the consequences of their petty desires are putting themselves over those who don't deserve such imposition. Their selfishness makes them less and less worthy of my sympathy - especially when children are the victims.

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That is different. Being addicted to money is something external of biology. You wouldn't use this analogy for a homosexual, would you?

And the question still remains; how do you help those that are attracted to them but don't act on it?

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I really don't see them as a priority. Society has much more to work out (which will take an eternity) before we ever consider the special "needs" of the weird. They fend for themselves as we all must. Life is pain.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Hell, I'm all for giving them access to child pornography, before actually letting them have contact with children.

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Yeah.. this is an interesting compromise.. the question is obviously "How do you make the pornography?"....

It's no wonder why there are lot's of cases in which admitted pedophiles end up committing suicide..

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Originally Posted by O'nus

The unfortunate truth is that there are actually some children out there who genuinely want this. What do you do about them? It's not something we want to face or admit, but there are people who want it.

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Children don't know have any maturity or experience in making choices. They're children. What if a child was mad at his/her mother and genuinely wanted to kill her? If a child wants to have sex with a grown man then it is up to a mature adult to teach him/her that it's wrong.

When I was a child I wanted to be a superhero.

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Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I'm wondering what people expect people who are naturally attracted to children to do. I mean; what can they do? Just be entirely sexually repressed their whole lives seems sad.

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The same thing alcoholics do in trying to avoid getting drunk. They have treatment options, support groups, and can learn to avoid situations where they could get into trouble. A recovering alcoholic shouldn't go into a bar and a recovering pedophile shouldn't go into a school.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

And of those children that desire such things..?

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And of those children that "desire" committing homicide? There is only so much "desire" that is genetic. Most of it is indoctrinated. Why do we have age restrictions? Because the brain develops in stages. Children are not expected to fully know the consequences of their actions, or the alleged dangers of their interests.

If your 10 year old was dead set on leaving your home and traveling the world on her on, own the street, without yours or any other adult's guidance...would you just help pack her bags?

Kids don't always get what they want. Such is the basis of parenting.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

That is different. Being addicted to money is something external of biology. You wouldn't use this analogy for a homosexual, would you?

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As long as the relationship had to do with consenting adults, I couldn't care less. As I said, the problem comes when you put yourself before the well-being of others. Children that age are just not prepared for all the consequences that come with sexual activity...much less for that which comes from a "relationship" with a fully-developed adult. I do not see anything "wrong" with people being attracted to people of the same sex. Fundamentally, I don't see anything "wrong" with people being attracted to children. I do see something wrong with pedophiles foregoing the "attraction" stage and moving into the contact, courtship and potential sexual encounter stages.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

And the question still remains; how do you help those that are attracted to them but don't act on it?
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I don't know, but you can bet that I'm going to help the children stay away from that sort of situation before I'm going to help the adult get a hold on their lust. One, to me, is far more important than the other.

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Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

Children don't know have any maturity or experience in making choices. They're children. What if a child was mad at his/her mother and genuinely wanted to kill her? If a child wants to have sex with a grown man then it is up to a mature adult to teach him/her that it's wrong.

When I was a child I wanted to be a superhero.

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Then you open up the argument of when are they capable of making that decision? How do you know? Is there a specific age? I have no doubt that any younger than 7 is not plausible, but beyond that, it becomes dubious. It is very well likely that a child nearing the age of puberty can desire these things. This has been a huge argument in court cases.

Of course, I'm not offering to defend either case, just pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

And of those children that "desire" committing homicide? There is only so much "desire" that is genetic. Most of it is indoctrinated. Why do we have age restrictions? Because the brain develops in stages. Children are not expected to fully know the consequences of their actions, or the alleged dangers of their interests.

If your 10 year old was dead set on leaving your home and traveling the world on her own, own the street, without yours or any other adult's guidance...would you just let them out of the house?

Kids don't always get what they want. Such is the basis of parenting.

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I suppose what I said above is applicable here.

There's a good reason this is such a heated debate.. I'm not saying it should be allowed or something. I think it's really difficult to come up with a compromise. However, I do think they deserve humane treatment, like anybody else.

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As long as the relationship had to do with consenting adults, I couldn't care less. As I said, the problem comes when you put yourself before the well-being of others. Children that age are just not prepared for all the consequences that come with sexual activity...more-so from that which comes from a "relationship" with a fully-developed adult. I do not see anything "wrong" with people being attracted to people of the same sex. Fundamentally, I don't see anything "wrong" with people being attracted to children. I do see something wrong with pedophiles foregoing the "attraction" stage and moving into the contact, courtship and potential sexual encounter stages.

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Again, where do we draw the line of "ready" to think for themselves? 20? 18? 16? 12? 30? 60? The important point I am making is that children nearing puberty can have these impulses and look for fulfillment. An unfortunate truth.

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I don't know, but you can bet that I'm going to help the children stay away from that sort of situation before I'm going to help the adult get a hold on their lust. One, to me, is far more important than the other.

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Ugh, I'm not sure what you meant to say here, but it's irrelevant to my point. What of those pedophiles that want help and don't act on their impulses? What of their position?

~

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Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

The same thing alcoholics do in trying to avoid getting drunk. They have treatment options, support groups, and can learn to avoid situations where they could get into trouble. A recovering alcoholic shouldn't go into a bar and a recovering pedophile shouldn't go into a school.

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Its far easier to get off an external drug addiction.. than to change your sexuality.

Obviously from the child's / concerned parents POV, the answer is education
don't reveal any personal information (or lie, which is often easier)
If you must reveal personal information over the internet to someone, encrypt it (PGP)
make sure that known friends are who they say they are (signed messages, again, PGP)
If you don't want to talk to someone, just ignore them

Yet still, alcohol is not banned. I'd say more people are affected from alcoholism than someone who likes children sitting at a desk in his basement.

Obviously someone's not going to trust that their child has great judgement over something in this modern world, so the way is to educate, and the same applies to pedophilia.
Educate them to see the choices. Telling someone not to do something doesn't work, they have to understand why they don't want to do it, and not because there's some law there, because that's circular reasoning.

You can't force people to do something. They have to make the choice themselves. That is, unless you plan on taking their freedom away on the idea that they may, which is the same "disgusting side" of humans as if a pedophile decides to rape a child.

Edit: You people type fast, I was replying to Ame's post. -goes to work-

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Originally Posted by O'nus

I suppose what I said above is applicable here.

There's a good reason this is such a heated debate.. I'm not saying it should be allowed or something. I think it's really difficult to come up with a compromise. However, I do think they deserve humane treatment, like anybody else.

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There is a difference between "deserving humane treatment" and allowing them free reign to have contact with children that happen to have access to the internet, which - I believe - is what this thread is about.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

Again, where do we draw the line of "ready" to think for themselves? 20? 18? 16? 12? 30? 60? The important point I am making is that children nearing puberty can have these impulses and look for fulfillment. An unfortunate truth.

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This is the reason we have age limits to where someone is considerable as a "consenting adult." Of course it's arbitrary. All cases are, but it is is an arbitration that has the best interests of the immature taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by O'nus

Ugh, I'm not sure what you meant to say here, but it's irrelevant to my point. What of those pedophiles that want help and don't act on their impulses? What of their position?
~

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This point is actually irrelevant to the thread, which is one reason I'm comfortable with not answering it. Pedophiles that want help can seek it, and they can get it. As Ame so rightly said, there are support groups and programs all over the place that will attempt to help pedophiles with their situation. Pedophiles that want help do not go trolling chatrooms, trying to show 11 year old girls their dicks.

[Edit:]

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Originally Posted by Ynot

Obviously from the child's / concerned parents POV, the answer is education
don't reveal any personal information (or lie, which is often easier)
If you must reveal personal information over the internet to someone, encrypt it (PGP)
make sure that known friends are who they say they are (signed messages, again, PGP)
If you don't want to talk to someone, just ignore them

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In a perfect world, all of our kids would listen to everything we say, and just educating them would be enough to keep them out of any situation. This isn't a perfect world. Kids are impressionable. Hell, adults are impressionable. Just having faith that your kid is going to listen to everything you warn them of isn't going to keep your kid safe/secure/alive. That's just the way the world works. Curiosity doesn't just kill the cat.
[/Edit]

HAHAHAH! This video is so sick!

I'm going to go do this just for the entertainment value. God I love the internet and the ease of exploitation of disgusting people.

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Originally Posted by ClouD

You can't force people to do something. They have to make the choice themselves. That is, unless you plan on taking their freedom away on the idea that they may, which is the same "disgusting side" of humans as if a pedophile decides to rape a child.

Edit: You people type fast, I was replying to Ame's post. -goes to work-

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This isn't about taking the child's freedom away. This is about taking the freedom for a pedophile to prey upon a small child away. There is a huge difference. There is only so much you can do to educate your child, but there is another angle at which you can attack the problem - that is at the source. This is the reason we have police officers and a military. Just telling people to "stay away from dark alleys" is not enough to stop them from getting mugged. Sometimes you actually have to go after the muggers.

[Edit]
Ugh, I might have to give it a rest, too. I understand the whole Devil's Advocate thing, but this thread is seriously beginning to kill my buzz. :?
[/Edit]

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Originally Posted by Ynot

It's interesting that everyone here who isn't "Rah, boo, shut the chat-room down" is outside the US

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This is odd.

And true, it seems.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

There is a difference between "deserving humane treatment" and allowing them free reign to have contact with children that happen to have access to the internet, which - I believe - is what this thread is about.

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Pedophiles who find themselves disgusting will seek anonymous ways to fulfill their fantasies. The internet allows the perfect solution to that desire for them.

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This is the reason we have age limits to where someone is considerable as a "consenting adult." Of course it's arbitrary. All cases are, but it is is an arbitration that has the best interests of the immature taken into consideration.

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Yeah, my only point was that there are certainly cases in which young children do go out seeking these desires. I think this is where Ynot made the good point about education.

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This point is actually irrelevant to the thread, which is one reason I'm comfortable with not answering it. Pedophiles that want help can seek it, and they can get it. As Ame so rightly said, there are support groups and programs all over the place that will attempt to help pedophiles with their situation. Pedophiles that want help do not go trolling chatrooms, trying to show 11 year old girls their dicks.

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No, my point was actually entirely about the video; the internet is the best place for a pedophile to go for help because if they seek help in the real world they will be ridiculed tremendously! Yes, there are support groups that they can attend, but how can you expect someone to go out seeking help when admitting such a thing publicly could ruin your life?

Again, another reason why I am not surprised pedophiles so commonly kill themselves.

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In a perfect world, all of our kids would listen to everything we say, and just educating them would be enough to keep them out of any situation. This isn't a perfect world. Kids are impressionable. Hell, adults are impressionable. Just having faith that your kid is going to listen to everything you warn them of isn't going to keep your kid safe/secure/alive. That's just the way the world works. Curiosity doesn't just kill the cat.
[/Edit]

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Yes, for those children that do desire these fantasies, it can be easily destructive to them.

I think my only main point is that pedophilia ought not to be ridiculed so heavily because of those majority that do not want those urges. Again, taking a look at a reformed person coming back to the world and still being ridiculed is the perfect case of hopeless.

I suppose treating them like that will help in the long run - they will kill themselves or be killed. Is that what you want?

Still, I'm not even sure what I would say. Just clearing up my point.

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wow this is turning into a heated debate. maybe this thread should be in ED.

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Originally Posted by ranma187

wow this is turning into a heated debate. maybe this thread should be in ED.

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It's been rather civil so far, thankfully. :)

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i'm going to research into crime stoppers to see if i can make any $$ fishing these guys out.

I love those kind of chat rooms.

They're the best for baiting.

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Originally Posted by Elis D.

I love those kind of chat rooms.

They're the best for baiting.

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BURN HIM !!!!

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Originally Posted by O'nus

I think my only main point is that pedophilia ought not to be ridiculed so heavily because of those majority that do not want those urges. Again, taking a look at a reformed person coming back to the world and still being ridiculed is the perfect case of hopeless.
~

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Honestly, it's not as much about pedophilia to me as it is about the ones who actually end up carrying out their pedophilic actions.

Do you know what baiting is, or are you just goofing you silly goose?

wow up to 2 grand in my area if my tip leads to an arrest.

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Originally Posted by De-lousedInTheComatorium

Honestly, it's not as much about pedophilia to me as it is about the ones who actually end up carrying out their pedophilic actions.

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True, I concur.

Something we did not consider is that this was a teen chat room. Is it really pedophilia going on or just really horny teens willing to hump anything?

~