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I think you give humans too much weight and underestimate other animals. I mean what about the lion who crept into a hyena's den and took a cub when no one was looking, lazily tortured it somewhere, waited for it to die, and then left its body to be picked up by whatever creature wanted it?
I think other animals are capable of anger, vengeance, spite, whatever.
Eh, instincts for survival. A lion can't think "oh, if i torture that hyena, how will I make it's family feel?" Animals don't have free will. They may have anger, but it's so they kill, they kill to eat. They torture the hyena, theey take it's den, they get shelter. All for survival. A dumbass doesn't have to throw a dog over a cliff for survival, shelter, food, or even for entertainment. It's sick and twisted.
The point of that story is that there was nothing about taking any shelter over, or eating the kill, or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy
What do you mean, animals don't have free will? How do you define free will then?
All I'm saying is that some animals are a lot more complicated than most people think, but hardly anyone ever has the will to educate themselves on this topic.
Most animals. Who knows what intelligent animals think, but I'm thinking something along these lines. If a lion sees a deer, it thinks, I kill it, I get food. It's not going to be thinking, If I kill it, what will happen to it's young, how will i make it feel. It won't feel guilty, it will feel stuffed. I don't know though, I'm not a lion.
I have an extreme prejudice towards anyone that would harm an animal. Especially defenseless pets. For any other reason than defense, or the need to eat/survive. And also towards those who would defend the act of harming one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialInterests
It's pretty ignorant to think they don't care how they die. They know as much terror and pain as anyone would.
So how about you all ship yourselves over seas for god knows how long, constantly fearing for your life, with a gun in your hands, aimed to kill another human being.
You know that's what marines are trained to do, right? To kill.
I'd have a fucked up sense of humor if I was trained to murder for my country.
Ah, so if a marine shoots your family pet, it's ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD
Chalk it up to PTSD, right?
Something tells me you wouldn't be that apathetic, had you any reason to feel related to the loss of that animal's life. No one is doubting that marines are trained to kill. I think I even acknowledged that in my first post. But no one who has the least bit of common sense can deny what being in harm's way does to a person's psyche. This does not mean that whatever a marine (or former combatant) does is pardoned. Their service is taken into account (at least in my case) but does not completely excuse their actions - for the simple fact that there are many soldiers that come back without the desire to turn the killing of another living thing into viral entertainment.
My brother is fine, he's a marine. He wouldn't throw a dog over a cliff and the laugh at it :shock: I got to admit though, he laughs at his friends' pain (:D) I do too, it's fun to see stupid people do stupid things.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarboy
Lmao, we have a winner!
A marine wouldn't shoot my family pet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
There's a big difference between a family pet and a freaking wild animal.
Everyone forgets that a dog is a fucking animal. It's just like a giraffe or a kangaroo. Dogs (like cats) are more domestic though, so people get more upset over it.
A marine wouldn't walk into my house, and shoot my dog (if I had one).
A domestic dog is raised by a family, and is therefore a "pet".
A wild dog is raised in the wild, and is therefore an animal.
I acknowledge that he killed a puppy, but don't compare it to a domestic animal. It was a sick, wild animal.
I don't think Oneironaut meant to direct the point so much between the distinction of animal and pet. More that if my marine grandma doesn't go kill your dog then another marine shouldn't do so and be excused because of his similar experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD
And if some guy threw a live baby giraffe or kangaroo off of a cliff because he didn't want to waste bullets on the animal he thought was terminally ill (with his limited knowledge of animal sicknesses) and had it taped it for humour, I think there might be some negative feedback.
Hey guys, I threw this terminally ill (well, I thought it was; I have limited knowledge of animal sicknesses) live baby kangaroo off of a cliff because I didn't want to waste bullets on the animal, and taped it for humour.
Want to see it?
A cop shot my best friend's 9 year old doberman - which I had known for 7 years and was a sweetheart who wouldn't have hurt a fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD
On what grounds can you justify assuming that a marine wouldn't shoot your family pet?
Exactly. Mercy-killing is one thing. Mercy-killing and making a comedic performance out of it is another thing entirely. The video displays the latter, and should not be dismissed solely as the former.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClouD
Well, if an asshole shoots your dog, you hate assholes.
If an asshole shoots your pet, but happens to be a marine, you hate marines. I hate stupid people in general, so this would cover it. I wouldn't prejiduce(or however it's spelled) a group because one asshol who happens to be in it is an asshole. But i think im off topic.
From what I gathered by skimming over posts in this thread...most people are bothered by "how" the marine chose to execute the puppy. How being inclusive of demeanor, body language, excitement etc. Not so much as the actual throwing of the puppy. To those who say "nothing justifies what he did", let me ask you a question, - what if the marine briefly (in a serious manner) explained that the puppy was sick, starved, dying and instead of killing him with his gun, he needed to preserve his ammo as well as not make a lot of noise. What if he said that he was going to give the puppy a mercy kill so as not to wander around sick and dying and THEN had tossed the puppy over the cliff. Would that have been better in your eyes? If so then it's not so much the act you have a problem with, it's the jovial state of mind the marine was in that you have a problem with.
Which leads me to my next question. If you fall into that category where you think it wasn't the deed so much as the jovial state he was in then what should he be punished for? His jovial state in which he chose to execute the puppy or the execution of the puppy itself? If the first is what you choose then it's probably safe to say we should lockup and punish everyone who expresses even the slightest bit of glee in a conversation about killing someone or something. Be it in jest or not.
I do not condone the actions of the marine, in fact I'm glad his ass was discharged. If the mercy kill was literally "meant" to be a mercy kill and ammo preserving reasons were in the back of his head then I think what he did wasn't that bad. It's his mannerisms and state in which he chose to kill the puppy that I'd like to punch this fucking guy in the face for.
I kind of sort of read that. I am pissed that he killed the animal by throwing, when he could have easily broke it's neck quickly and without a fucking flight through the air and the brushing feeling it gets after it lands, then slowly dies. What made me post was that he was laughing about it.
Even if it ws a mercy kill and preserving ammo, and not giving away his position, he could have put the fucking camera away, broke it's neck and walked away.
Why the fuck did they video tape it. That is just sick. They are laughing too.
The projection comes from the projector.
Don't be so hard on yourselves.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/.../Projector.jpg
Either explain yourself such that most people will understand or don't bother saying anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclic13
I pretty much get what you're saying here, but you really need to try and put it in a form which doesn't shout out the impression that you don't feel the need to explain yourself to us wee serfs.
This and That.
Tomato.
Potato.
You may be making profound sense to yourself and I'm sure you are, but you're coming off as a holier than thou idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclic13
If something seems so... it must be so, no?
Sadly, all the seeming in the world doesn't change what is.
And what is, remains beyond any one's futile justifications to seem this or that about anything.
:3
But how do you know it doesn't just seem to you that what is is beyond anyone's futile justifications to seem this or that about anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclic13
I know nothing.
In knowing nothing... nothing starts to come into focus.
Then one realizes... nothing is what it seems.
To think otherwise would seem arrogant me thinks.
But seem as one may... nothing makes perfect sense...
Exactly :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandform
First, they decided to join the army and before joining, everyone knows that they could be sent off to fight in another country, so, you should at least have prepared yourself for that scenario. Second, do we even know the condition of the puppy? You say give them the benefit of the doubt. How do we even know that the puppy was dying and that there was nothing that could be done to get him healthy again, huh? Do you really want me to take their word for it? How do I know they aren't lying to justify their actions because they were bored or wanted to do something malicious? Third, there are other options avaliable besides throwing it or even shooting it. They could have had it euthanized or whatever the term is. If I remember correctly, its a painless process, even then, I still don't think they should have done anything besides trying to treat it and if all else fails, then its time will come :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick
Thank you, someone finally says something decent :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja9578
lol, ok, no one is arguing that marines aren't trained to kill, but, they are only to kill if someone is trying to kill them, so, self defense or if there is a war where they are being shoot at and they have to shoot back. That puppy wasn't trying to shoot at them, infact, he wasn't doing anything. You wanna know what I would have done if I was in their place? If the puppy was indeed sick, I would have found an animal hospital and took it there. As someone here mentioned, the US seems to be running an animal shelter, so, he could have easily had it transferred there, but, no he decided to take the more fun route and send the poor thing to its death. There is nothing justifable about that. To me, I see every human and animal life as important. The only time I would ever see a justification in a killing is if someone was attacking me and I was using self-defense and I just happened to kill him/her/it, etc.... otherwise, I wouldn't hurt another soul :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazeO XD