let's discuss language censorship!

after posting a status on facebook containing more than a few (lighthearted) "f" bombs, one of my aunts politely asked me to stop using the word because she'd "rather not see it." I normally don't curse like a sailor, anyway...I was quite drunk. but that's beside the point. this was my reply to her:

language censorship is a ridiculous, self-defeating cause and that is something I feel very strongly about. I respectfully refuse to compromise my beliefs to accommodate you. of course, I use discretion; but seeing as this is a public forum and you have the option to either de-friend me or take me off of your news feed (the latter, I hope), I see no reason to censor myself. it was not my intention to hurt anyone with my language, and it saddens me that anyone would construe such negativity in a mere word. anyway, I mean no disrespect, really. :)

thoughts?

Well said.. I really wish I didn't add family on facebook for reasons like this.

two options for you: if you are a legal adult/your free language would not result in any serious repercussions, then you can be like me and simply refuse to compromise your beliefs. if that is not an option, you could make an alternate account. my sister has two accounts just for this reason, one for family, one for friends (and the more liberal members of the family). if neither options will work for you, then you can run away and live in the woods. you can shout all the curse words you can think of all day long, I doubt any of the wildlife will take offense.

I choose not to swear.

Meh, I think censorship is as effective as trying to put a hole in the ocean with a handgun. I think people should be allowed to curse, not 'blatantly' every other fin word, but once in a little while its okay, but if its every other word, that's quite distasteful, but it should still not be censored.

Maybe you should make a seperate facebook for friends only and no square family lol

I don't like censorship, but I also wouldn't want to offend anybody in my family. A family member asking another to please refrain from using bad language isn't censorship.

Words aren't vulgar, only contexts are vulgar.

I wonder if putting your family in a facebook list would allow you to prevent them from seeing specific status updates. So like, "Yay I can't wait to go on vacation next week" you would filter through, but "Man, I got so fuckin drunk I picked up some school chicks and had an insane fucking orgy" might be something your family can do without. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Replicon

I wonder if putting your family in a facebook list would allow you to prevent them from seeing specific status updates. So like, "Yay I can't wait to go on vacation next week" you would filter through, but "Man, I got so fuckin drunk I picked up some school chicks and had an insane fucking orgy" might be something your family can do without. :lol:

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LMFAO. No you can't but you can stop certain people from seeing all status updates.

I agree though, swear words are no more offensive. IMO it just adds emphasis. I use them all the time. Probably why my vocabulary sucks, but whatever.

Oh and a good solution is to not add family members. I don't want them to see my "Fuck I'm so high right now" etc. status'. But thankfully none of them have added me lol.

The problem with language censorship is **** ****** *** **** ***** ** **** * **** **** ********* * *** *** *.

It's a very easy solution: **** ****** *** **** ***** ** **** * **** **** ********* * *** *** ****** ** **** * **** **** ********* * *** *** *.

I'm not a big fan of censorship, and swear a lot irl(mostly fokking, godverdomme and tering, that's dutch)
altough for example I choose to not use the word kanker(cancer) like some I know use it, but I have no problems with others using it since I find it's their own choice
and I also don't use godverdomme in the presence of my father or his side of the family(since they're christian)

and I don't have the facebook problem, I have hyves(kind of a dutch version of facebook), and the only familymember who uses it too is my mother, and she barely uses it and isn't my friend on it

I use an alias for every single one of my online activities. Everyone I know in real life remains blissfully clueless. ^_^

It's still kind of sad that swearing is still considered offensive in this day and age, especially among adults. These are words to express anger, rage, frustration, or hell, just for fun. They may have been offensive at one time, but I think that time has passed. It's a freaking word!

I have to agree with Caprisun on that. Your aunt asking you not to use bad words, isn't really censorship, and I am pretty sure her goal wasn't to censor you at all.

For starters a polite request, is just that, a polite request. She wasn't demanding anything or putting you down. You don't need to jump on people who are asking politely.

Secondly she is your aunt, so you need to try and be a bit more respectful in general. No offense but your reply did seem a little rude, and probably a little unnecessary.

Probably should of just said you were sorry, and that you were a little drunk and got carried away, then remind her its not a common thing for you. Or if you are totally opposed to that sort of thing, just politely tell her that you will try to watch your words, but that you weren't going to censor yourself so it could possible come up again.

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

altough for example I choose to not use the word kanker(cancer) like some I know use it, but I have no problems with others using it since I find it's their own choice

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Uh........? How is cancer a swear word?

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Originally Posted by tommo

Uh........? How is cancer a swear word?

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here in the netherlands it is, especially under youth, there are people who use it in front of almost every word(for example: kanker gast, dat is kankergaaf, translation: cancer dude, that's cancercool)
just like fuck is typically english(we do say fok and fokking, but that's derived from fuck, not a native dutch word, altough some people do translate english expressionss like what the fuck to wat de neuk, but that's clearly just literarly translated from the english)

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Originally Posted by tommo

LMFAO. No you can't but you can stop certain people from seeing all status updates.

I agree though, swear words are no more offensive. IMO it just adds emphasis. I use them all the time. Probably why my vocabulary sucks, but whatever.

Oh and a good solution is to not add family members. I don't want them to see my "Fuck I'm so high right now" etc. status'. But thankfully none of them have added me lol.

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It wouldn't say it impairs anyone's vocab. It only strengthens it in my opinion. In context though, like you said. Swear words can provide impact that other words just simply can't.

But of course, swearing every other word can have the opposite effect. It just makes you / the sentence look much weaker, thus implying you have a shitty vocabulary.

Hmmm I agree with all of that. I don't understand the aversion to certain words. "Swear words" are usually some of the most emotive and best at conveying high levels of any emotion. Compare "What the fuck are you talking about?" to "What are you talking about?" to convey high levels of confusion. Fuck or fucking is probably one of the words I use the most.

I get shit like this all the time, some Blackjack dealer told me that she has never felt the need to use the F word in her life so I should show her respect and not use it in front of her. Haha, a tad bit ridiculous IMO, if there's house rules against it fair enough, but swearing in front of somebody has fuck all to do with respect as far as I'm concerned.

If you use any word well enough, no one will complain.

My family is like that too. I don't understand what the big deal is... like replacing 'F**kin' with 'friggin' or 'flippin' or replacing sh*t with shoot. You still knoqw what I mean, and they convey the exact same meaning, yet for whatever reason one is labeled as being bad. silly really. They already know what I mean when I say something so why change the word itself if it has the same meaning.

^yeah, just like my father who only says 'krammele' (frisian, but a word withpout meaning, only meaning is to replace a swearword)
and when I once accidently said verdomme(damnit) because I slipped out on a wet part of the floor he became upset...(he is christian, I'm not, and I say godverdomme(goddamnit) all the time when he isn't around, when he is I restrict myself to kut(cunt), tering(phthisis) or tyfus(typhus))
and ofcourse the good ol' fok/fokking

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Originally Posted by Alric

I have to agree with Caprisun on that. Your aunt asking you not to use bad words, isn't really censorship, and I am pretty sure her goal wasn't to censor you at all.

For starters a polite request, is just that, a polite request. She wasn't demanding anything or putting you down. You don't need to jump on people who are asking politely.

Secondly she is your aunt, so you need to try and be a bit more respectful in general. No offense but your reply did seem a little rude, and probably a little unnecessary.

Probably should of just said you were sorry, and that you were a little drunk and got carried away, then remind her its not a common thing for you. Or if you are totally opposed to that sort of thing, just politely tell her that you will try to watch your words, but that you weren't going to censor yourself so it could possible come up again.

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jump on? rude? are you joking?
trust me if I was going to be rude, I would have been rude. I plainly, flatly explained how I felt. did I mention it's something I feel strongly about? I think I did. a lot of times when people feel strongly about things, they WILL be rude in the face of conflict. I was not.

you are what I shall henceforth refer to as a "sugarcoat." let's look at your post.

No offense but your reply did seem a little rude

no offense? why should I be offended at someones honest thoughts? if my reply seemed rude to you, why not just say it? "I thought your reply was rude." nothing offensive about that, just an opinion.

little rude, and probably a little unnecessary.

a little unnecessary? why not just "unnecessary?" why all these "little"s? you don't have to sprinkle your posts with a bunch of "little"s. really. you either agree with me or you disagree, if you disagree, just say it. and you CAN say it flatly, without being rude.

Probably should of just said you were sorry

I was not sorry. why should I feel sorry, if, like I said in my reply to her, I feel that language censorship is ridiculous? I do not feel sorry, ever, for saying any of the words deemed "offensive," and so I have nothing to apologize for. you probably should just not throw the word "sorry" around as if you are a "sorry" person. I apologize for mistakes. not for people getting their panties in a knot over nothing.

from your suggestions, I've formed an alternate reply to my aunt:

I'm so sorry for offending you! you see, I was a little drunk, and well, normally I don't use language like that. sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, really. oh, but I think language censorship is silly, but, that's just my little opinion, I'm sorry if it offends you. so there *is* a chance that I *may* use some bad words in the future, oh, but not much! and I'll try to keep you in mind, and avoid using those words, even though, well, it goes completely against my belief.

see how silly that is? why not just be flat-out honest? world could use more flat-out honesty.

here's a cool quote I just stumbled on: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

I wasn't trying to sugarcoat it and said it exactly how I meant it. When I said little, its because I meant little. I don't think you were outright rude. I think you got a little carried away in your response to your aunt, and that it was probably stronger than you may have intended for it to be.

I totally agree with you that censorship is bad. My point was more, that you shouldn't risk friendships or family over drunken rants, and that you were creating potential conflict with your aunt when there wasn't any.

I don't know her though, so maybe it didn't bother her at all. Maybe she is the kind of person who just lets that stuff roll off of her. Your reply did seems a little hostile however. And yes there are degrees of hostility.

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

^yeah, just like my father who only says 'krammele' (frisian, but a word withpout meaning, only meaning is to replace a swearword)
and when I once accidently said verdomme(damnit) because I slipped out on a wet part of the floor he became upset...(he is christian, I'm not, and I say godverdomme(goddamnit) all the time when he isn't around, when he is I restrict myself to kut(cunt), tering(phthisis) or tyfus(typhus))
and ofcourse the good ol' fok/fokking

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What's with all these dutch swear words coming from diseases?

Salmonella!

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Originally Posted by nerve

jump on? rude? are you joking?
trust me if I was going to be rude, I would have been rude. I plainly, flatly explained how I felt. did I mention it's something I feel strongly about? I think I did. a lot of times when people feel strongly about things, they WILL be rude in the face of conflict. I was not.

you are what I shall henceforth refer to as a "sugarcoat." let's look at your post.

No offense but your reply did seem a little rude

no offense? why should I be offended at someones honest thoughts? if my reply seemed rude to you, why not just say it? "I thought your reply was rude." nothing offensive about that, just an opinion.

little rude, and probably a little unnecessary.

a little unnecessary? why not just "unnecessary?" why all these "little"s? you don't have to sprinkle your posts with a bunch of "little"s. really. you either agree with me or you disagree, if you disagree, just say it. and you CAN say it flatly, without being rude.

Probably should of just said you were sorry

I was not sorry. why should I feel sorry, if, like I said in my reply to her, I feel that language censorship is ridiculous? I do not feel sorry, ever, for saying any of the words deemed "offensive," and so I have nothing to apologize for. you probably should just not throw the word "sorry" around as if you are a "sorry" person. I apologize for mistakes. not for people getting their panties in a knot over nothing.

from your suggestions, I've formed an alternate reply to my aunt:

I'm so sorry for offending you! you see, I was a little drunk, and well, normally I don't use language like that. sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, really. oh, but I think language censorship is silly, but, that's just my little opinion, I'm sorry if it offends you. so there *is* a chance that I *may* use some bad words in the future, oh, but not much! and I'll try to keep you in mind, and avoid using those words, even though, well, it goes completely against my belief.

see how silly that is? why not just be flat-out honest? world could use more flat-out honesty.

here's a cool quote I just stumbled on: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss

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Just because someone prefers to be more mannerly then most when they speak doesn't mean they are speaking weakly or with less honesty.

I completely disagree.

your idea of "mannerly" is clearly "sugar." why am I surprised at all the rotting teeth :(

I don't get why you would want to needlessly offend people you care about for the sake of free speech. I see a lot of self-rigtheous young people, mostly on MTV, promoting their knack for "speaking their mind" like it's an admirable trait. To most of them, speaking their mind means saying something completely inappropriate and rude in a situation where their harsh words were completely unwarranted. There is a time and a place for everything. Sometimes it is important to stand up for your beliefs or say something that needs to be said, but other times you just need to keep your mouth shut. It takes a mature person to know when to do which. It's wrong to accuse a person with good manners of being weak, any child can "speak their mind."

there is a difference between mannerly and sugar, and between speaking your mind and being rude/inappropriate. I understand that. what I don't understand is the need to constantly speak to everyone as if you are wrong. what is wrong with flatly (robotically, even) stating your thoughts without any hint of anger or other negative emotions? that, I don't understand.

please, if you will (anyone), write out what you think would have been a more appropriate reply. as I have no regret, you cannot include any apology. I'd like to get a better idea of what I did wrong.

Well, assuming that she supports language censorship was the first thing that you did wrong. Because frankly, it was presumptious unless you have heard her opinion on the matter beforehand. Secondly, whether she supports it or not is fairly irrelevant. Censoring your language would have been facebook telling you to use more appropriate words OR if your aunt had threatened you with something bad if you continued to use profanity. I don't see much difference between her trying to stifle your usage of profanity and you trying to stifle her vocalization of conservative ideals, quite honestly.

ive sort of missed the arguement but have you baically been swearing a lot. even if you have i think what spockman has just said is worse that communism makes your kids gay, what a pathetic thing to say

hi spockman i think your confusing socialism with cummunism, which cant make you gay either. and theres nothing wrong with being gay if thats who you are. if we had a global socialist government there would be a global minimum wage and first world jobs wouldnt be taken by exploited third world workers

http://www.schoolofsarcasm.com/

am I missing something? how is deeming certain words "offensive" and asking someone not to use them NOT supporting language censorship? how was my conclusion anything but reasonable?

leo: you clearly have nothing to contribute to this thread, and you're taking it off topic. I'd much apprectiate if you'd either make a reply after reading the content first, or refrain from posting in it.

Well, silly though it may be, some people still DO take offense at swearing. I guess one comparison you could make is wanting to not have to view shock porn when you visit your friends' pages on Facebook. Barring freedom of speech? Eh. It's more or less a polite request so that you don't have to run and get eye bleach whenever you want to view their status. That person may still go and put up shock porn on other pages and other websites...it really isn't a hindrance of free speech so much as adhering to a set of social norms to be nice to others. Your aunt's and your own are clearly in contrast, but is it so hard to cut back on the swearing, bearing in mind that it makes your aunt uncomfortable? It'd be a small pain I for one would be willing to undergo to make another person close to me happy.

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Well, silly though it may be, some people still DO take offense at swearing. I guess one comparison you could make is wanting to not have to view shock porn when you visit your friends' pages on Facebook. Barring freedom of speech? Eh. It's more or less a polite request so that you don't have to run and get eye bleach whenever you want to view their status. That person may still go and put up shock porn on other pages and other websites...it really isn't a hindrance of free speech so much as adhering to a set of social norms to be nice to others. Your aunt's and your own are clearly in contrast, but is it so hard to cut back on the swearing, bearing in mind that it makes your aunt uncomfortable? It'd be a small pain I for one would be willing to undergo to make another person close to me happy.

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Agree completely, Mario.

I mean, if I ask my roomate not to put a photoshopped poster of a nude Lady Gaga on our wall, he shouldn't assume that I support banning pornography. It just doesn't follow.

Can you see how you're aunt asking you not to swear on facebook- and you asking her not to ask you not to swear, (whew,) isn't entirely different?

You've asked what you should have said in other's opinions. I think, if you really didn't want to cut back on swearing or apologize, you could simply have said that swearing is just how you talk sometimes and you hope it doesn't offend her. You would have been honest and blunt, (as per your morals,) but you've avoided blowing it out of proportion into a moral issue.

She basically expressed her opinion, on how she felt about cursing and politely asked you to stop. Your response was pretty much the equivalent of, "I don't care what you think, I am going to do what I want." Which is rude.

Here is what I would have replied.

it was not my intention to hurt anyone with my language, and it saddens me that anyone would construe such negativity in a mere word. anyway, I mean no disrespect, really. :)

Which is exactly what you put, minus talk about censorship, defriending you and stuff. Like I said, your reply wasn't horrible, it was just stronger than you probably meant it to be. By removing the first section of it, you come across totally different. Instead of hostile and defensive, its a polite reply.

If you wanted to add a little more, could be something like.

I don't think using the word is a big deal, and I hope you are willing to accept that some times I may use words like that, but that is simply because of who I am. However it was not my intention to hurt anyone with my language, and it saddens me that anyone would construe such negativity in a mere word. anyway, I mean no disrespect, really. :)

Also I would use proper grammar and punctuation. Just to show you took the extra time. Any way, just removing that one part helps a lot. That first part really makes the entire thing sound more hostile.

language censorship is a ridiculous, self-defeating cause and that is something I feel very strongly about. I respectfully refuse to compromise my beliefs to accommodate you. of course, I use discretion; but seeing as this is a public forum and you have the option to either de-friend me or take me off of your news feed (the latter, I hope), I see no reason to censor myself.

I guess the problem is that I tend to be too thorough and over-explain myself. I always try to cover everything and be very clear, and I probably do go a little overboard sometimes. maybe it can be interpreted as rude. I can see "robotic" as coming off cold. of course. but anyone who knows me (or cares to know me) would understand this "quirk" and over-look it. anyone else, like Dr. Seuss said, doesn't matter.

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I mean, if I ask my roomate not to put a photoshopped poster of a nude Lady Gaga on our wall, he shouldn't assume that I support banning pornography. It just doesn't follow.

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on this wall, do you have the option to block images?

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Originally Posted by nerve

language censorship is a ridiculous, self-defeating cause and that is something I feel very strongly about. I respectfully refuse to compromise my beliefs to accommodate you. of course, I use discretion; but seeing as this is a public forum and you have the option to either de-friend me or take me off of your news feed (the latter, I hope), I see no reason to censor myself.

I guess the problem is that I tend to be too thorough and over-explain myself. I always try to cover everything and be very clear, and I probably do go a little overboard sometimes. maybe it can be interpreted as rude. I can see "robotic" as coming off cold. of course. but anyone who knows me (or cares to know me) would understand this "quirk" and over-look it. anyone else, like Dr. Seuss said, doesn't matter.


on this wall, do you have the option to block images?

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I'm not using it as a perfect analogy. It only applies to the whole whether or not asking you to swear means she supports censorship. I mean, I prefer going without hearing harsh language. But I don't support censorship.

you can't have free language and eat it too.

also you obviously don't understand how faulty your analogy is. my aunt has the option to take me off her news feed. she doesn't have to see any language - at all. it is my facebook, I can say what I want on it, no one has to view it. if we were at a family dinner and I was cursing like a sailor, that would be different. if she asked me to stop swearing - at a family dinner - I would understand. because in that situation, her only choice would be to sit there and listen to it, or leave. if she left, she would not get to enjoy the company of the other family members. that is wrong. swearing on a website page of my own is different. she has the option to block the language, without losing all her friends. do you see what I'm getting at? if your roommate posted images on facebook you didn't agree with, you could just block them - and without defriending him (or her). if they put up a disagreeable poster in a shared room, it's unavoidable.

Granted, she could ignore you, but perhaps she actually cares about you and enjoys checking up on you. And if this is the case, is it really worth putting up such a fuss? It is YOUR page, but your aunt likes to view it and keep in touch. Is that so bad? She just wants to be able to see what her nephew has been up to without being bombarded with what some of us would equate to shock porn.

I doubt she cares. even if she does, I never update with anything substantial, AND she could take me off her feed without defriending me. that way if she did care to check on me she could, I'm still right there in her list. I honestly don't even know why she added me in the first place. she's a super religious Jesus freak, and I don't care what she thinks of me, really. I care about her, just not about her ridiculous beliefs and opinions.

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Originally Posted by nerve

you can't have free language and eat it too.

also you obviously don't understand how faulty your analogy is. my aunt has the option to take me off her news feed. she doesn't have to see any language - at all. it is my facebook, I can say what I want on it, no one has to view it. if we were at a family dinner and I was cursing like a sailor, that would be different. if she asked me to stop swearing - at a family dinner - I would understand. because in that situation, her only choice would be to sit there and listen to it, or leave. if she left, she would not get to enjoy the company of the other family members. that is wrong. swearing on a website page of my own is different. she has the option to block the language, without losing all her friends. do you see what I'm getting at? if your roommate posted images on facebook you didn't agree with, you could just block them - and without defriending him (or her). if they put up a disagreeable poster in a shared room, it's unavoidable.

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Yes, but I don't understand how that implies she supports censorship- which would be a forceful censoring of language. I don't get that at all from what she said.

I don't know, indeed majority of our swearwords come from diseases
but then again, I could see the same about english and sexual words
and why the word shit? that's just the same, only we use diseases(a friend of me recentlty started to use syphilis, and in mky friendgroup we use aids a lot too)

btw, I think the dutch word for swearword explains a lot better what it is: 'krachtterm'(powerword, because you give extra power to a sentence or something you say)(altough the verb for saying sewarwords is vloeken, wich means to curse)


@nerve: I get the idea you're a bit like me:p
I also don't see the point of saying sorry if you're not, but I recently discovered saying sorry does get you away with much, because for some odd eason people atach value to it even if they know you don't mean it and only sai it to get away with it, so now I use that to y advantage

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

I don't know, indeed majority of our swearwords come from diseases
but then again, I could see the same about english and sexual words
and why the word shit? that's just the same, only we use diseases(a friend of me recentlty started to use syphilis, and in mky friendgroup we use aids a lot too)

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Hahah, I guess English is kind of silly, eh? "Shit," I think, has run its course as a swear word and is just another word now. Calling someone a bastard, though, is still kind of fun. ^_^ My grandfather used to wish poxes upon people (a pox on you!), which I guess is kind of similar. In truth, I'd like to see people doing more pox-wishing and less bird-flipping. It can be fun to tell a person to go fuck themselves, but it doesn't quite carry the same weight as wishing a slow and painful death upon them. :D