Sleep paralysis, are you lucid during them?

Hi,

I had my first sleep paralysis at 16, the next a couple of days later.
I'm now 24 and had had hundreds of them.

They happen when I'm not getting enought sleep (less than 4h a day for several days).

But, each time I get one I am not lucid, I am convinced that what is happening is real.
by that I mean that I see demons, ghosts and suchs, but never I am able to recall "hey, chill out, this is sleep paralysis".

In fact only once I was lucid, but my brain still managed to scare the shit out of me.
here I was, paralysed and fully lucid, I though "niiiiice, here I come lucid dream".
Then I felt a warm liquid pouring into my ears, it was my first kinestesic hallucination, I found this weird and tried to moved.
A huge crack happend inside my head, then I felt this liquid pouring into my throat, drowing me, and tasting like blood.

I paniqued, tried to cancel the paralysis and I did, then instantaniously no more blood, no more difficulty to breath.

I was very disappointed, it was the first time I was lucid but my brain still managed to screw me up :/

I never had a lucid SP again.

what about you?

ps : some times I'm also able to see through my closed eyeslid, apparently this happens some time to people experiencing SP, it's an illusion tho.
But each detail of my room is there.

The only time I have ever had sleep paralysis was last summer and I knew nothing about it. It only came when I was in a state of complete abandon after wandering home from fishing at the pond and falling (crashing) on the bed half in and half out and dozing off when something startled me , perhaps an outside noise and I found myself under the proverbial lead blanket and it scared the daylights out of me, it happened a lot then and I got sort of used to it but it quit with the approach of winter and I forgot it until now. I do know I didnt like it, In the month or so I have been involved in Lucid dreaming it has not happened, I hope it doesnt.

This is a good question. From my experience, I am more likely to be lucid in sleep paralysis. If I think of SP as another kind of dream, and define lucidity the same, I would say I am lucid in 9/10 SP experiences. I occasionally have bouts that fool me, but most of the time I know immediately.

It is worth mentioning that most of my sleep paralysis happens immediately after exiting a lucid dream. Almost anytime I willfully terminate (wake from) a lucid dream, I get sleep paralysis. This probably helps me, since I am already lucid.

I commonly get false awakenings, also. Those fool me more often. If the false awakening is accompanied by SP symptoms, I become (or remain?) lucid.

I had some SPs in my life, in all of them I was completely scared of something would kill me or was trying to make me any evil thing.

After reading about what SPs really is, I convinced myself that I don't have to be scared. The next time it happened was a little scary as usual, but i calmed down and let my imagination take me to my first LD :)

After that one, sometimes I feel like i'm having a little of paralys, but never felt any fear anymore.

I think that if you really believe SP as only a "failure of your brain" it won't scary you next time you face it...

Maybe you could use a mantra like "Next time I have SP I will calm down". Believe me, the only thing you have to do is calming down and using your imagination take you to dream world :D

Btw, Sleep Paralys without Lucidity shouldn't be SP, it was more alike to a dream (or nightmare)

That sounds really scary (the liquid)!! I've had SP since I was 6 and I totally know what you mean by seeing through your eyelids. It's like you're looking around and sometimes my husband is talking to me, but then of course once I'm out of it, he's fast asleep. It can be really scary though we all know it can't hurt us. As far as SP in a lucid dream, I've never had that that I'm aware of. I think I've definitely found a link between SP and LD so if I'm conscious enough to catch SP before I fall back to sleep, I can make it into an LD which I appreciate because SP 30 years later still wakes me up with my heart racing!

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Btw, Sleep Paralys without Lucidity shouldn't be SP, it was more alike to a dream (or nightmare)

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I disagree, in a dream the real world is absent.
In SP you can look around and see the real world, even when not lucid.

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Originally Posted by frost458

I disagree, in a dream the real world is absent.
In SP you can look around and see the real world, even when not lucid.

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When it occurs upon falling asleep, the person remains aware while the body shuts down for REM sleep, and it is called hypnagogic or predormital sleep paralysis. When it occurs upon awakening, the person becomes aware before the REM cycle is complete, and it is called hypnopompic or postdormital.[5]

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FONT: Wikipedia.

I understood that the person have to be aware to it be considered SP. Or it would be just an Non Lucid False Awakening :)

I was thinking of non-lucid sleep paralysis as the kind where you wake up, are paralyzed, and have no idea why. Even if you have heard of sleep paralysis before, you don't realize it is a dream. You think you are really awake, and unable to move. You really are convinced someone is in the room, or that you are just having a hard time getting out of bed. I still get this sometimes.

You are aware that you are paralyzed, but unaware that it is a dream, or sleep paralysis.

I had this happen the other day. I was sleeping in while my wife made breakfast. I heard her calling me, trying to wake me for breakfast. I was paralyzed, and struggling to get out of bed. I could sense my dog climbing on me, trying to wake me up. I had a flash of realization that this was sleep paralysis. I relaxed, and tried to use it to enter a lucid dream, but failed. I woke up, and tried to get out of bed, only to find I was paralyzed again. I thought to myself, "Man that was some crazy sleep paralysis." as I struggled, again, to get out of bed with my dog on me. Even though I just had identical sleep paralysis a second ago, and was thinking about sleep paralysis, I still didn't figure out this second bout was the exact same thing. We are very stupid when dreaming.

I understood, I found it strange cause never happened to me :O

When I say that we must be aware to it be considered SP, I was saying that we must know who we are, where we are and some things like that. I always was aware of myself in the SPs i had (even when I was scared), I used to fear SP cause I didn't knew what it really was. But after the first time I read about that, as a "scientific" thing, I never feared them anymore cause everytime I felt them, I remembered what it was.

heh, guess I am lucid in them? Always RC when in SP to make sure it isn't a FA. I like to poke fun at the scary hallucinations and laugh a bit about the whole thing, it is all very fun to do.

I would say we need to define SP as two seperate types. The type most common on this forum would be intentionally induce while attempting to get a WILD going. Do to the fact that the mind is fully aware and created the experience most would find it easy to remain calm and lucid. It is also pretty easy for an LDer to break this kind of SP.
The other type is basically a scarey sleep disorder. Most people do not experience the scary SP, just the induced type. I imagine it is less likely you would be lucid in the sleep disorder type.

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Originally Posted by sivason

I would say we need to define SP as two seperate types. The type most common on this forum would be intentionally induce while attempting to get a WILD going. Do to the fact that the mind is fully aware and created the experience most would find it easy to remain calm and lucid. It is also pretty easy for an LDer to break this kind of SP.
The other type is basically a scarey sleep disorder. Most people do not experience the scary SP, just the induced type. I imagine it is less likely you would be lucid in the sleep disorder type.

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I'm talking exactly about them xD
I never got to induce any SP succesfuly. All I had was natural and scary, but after I know that it was only a "sleep disorder" I remembered that I shouldn't have to fear anything, then I haven't even start to feel much fear, just in the start during about 5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Rubens

I'm talking exactly about them xD
I never got to induce any SP succesfuly. All I had was natural and scary, but after I know that it was only a "sleep disorder" I remembered that I shouldn't have to fear anything, then I haven't even start to feel much fear, just in the start during about 5 seconds.

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I bet you can use that some how, somehow use the sleep disorder to train for LDing, or to induce LDs? I don't know, but it could be a gift if you figure out how to use it. Maybe if when it happens you might hold still and attempt to go straight back to sleep. At that point WBTB attempt would be made, starting in SP!!!

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Originally Posted by sivason

I bet you can use that some how, somehow use the sleep disorder to train for LDing, or to induce LDs? I don't know, but it could be a gift if you figure out how to use it. Maybe if when it happens you might hold still and attempt to go straight back to sleep. At that point WBTB attempt would be made, starting in SP!!!

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I already do that :)
But after learning about LD I had only 2 in my life (and 2 during FAs).

had a chain of SP this morning.
I woke up, browsed some internet and felt tired, got back to bed.

after 10 minutes I was in SP mode.
I was lucid but still scared knowing that a black demon could come at any moment (I feel pain during SP when hallucinations attacks me, not real pain, once a ghost was tearing my arms apart it felt like if I was getting pinched on my arms, but it still hurted).
Being afraid, I closed my eyes, this wasn't useful since I could see through my eyeslids xD, then I noticed that there was only 1 computer screen on my desk (I have 2 screens).
I opened my eyes and the 2 screen were backs. then I loose lucidity and finally broke the paralysis.

It happened 4 times.

earlier I read that SP could be used to do OBE, if you maintain lucidity and try to "move without moving" you can actually get outside of your body, anyone has already did that?
Of course this must be some kind of lucid dreams since when I close my eyes I see a different room (99% similar tho).

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Originally Posted by frost458

Hi,

I had my first sleep paralysis at 16, the next a couple of days later.
I'm now 24 and had had hundreds of them.

They happen when I'm not getting enought sleep (less than 4h a day for several days).

But, each time I get one I am not lucid, I am convinced that what is happening is real.
by that I mean that I see demons, ghosts and suchs, but never I am able to recall "hey, chill out, this is sleep paralysis".

In fact only once I was lucid, but my brain still managed to scare the shit out of me.
here I was, paralysed and fully lucid, I though "niiiiice, here I come lucid dream".
Then I felt a warm liquid pouring into my ears, it was my first kinestesic hallucination, I found this weird and tried to moved.
A huge crack happend inside my head, then I felt this liquid pouring into my throat, drowing me, and tasting like blood.

I paniqued, tried to cancel the paralysis and I did, then instantaniously no more blood, no more difficulty to breath.

I was very disappointed, it was the first time I was lucid but my brain still managed to screw me up :/

I never had a lucid SP again.

what about you?

ps : some times I'm also able to see through my closed eyeslid, apparently this happens some time to people experiencing SP, it's an illusion tho.
But each detail of my room is there.

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frost458,
I also experience Isolated Sleep Paralysis. (I am using this psychology term to distinguish the disorder from the "sleep paralysis" most people refer to on the forum. Let's say ISP for short.) I experienced it for at least ten years of my life. I would see a figure made of dense, black smoke with red eyes. At first, The Shadow Demon would only be at my door or in my room (which is terrifying enough!), but later he began hovering above me. At its worst, I would have bouts once or twice a week. I am also a natural lucid dreamer, though I only have a few LD's a year naturally. Only once have I had ISP lead to a lucid dream, and even then it felt completely different than any of my other lucid dreams. I suspect it may have actually been an OBE. I almost never have LDs that take place in my room or house - they are usually in locations that do not exist in WR. When my dreams (lucid or not) do take place in a real WR location, there are usually at least a few details that will be off. All of my ISP episodes where not only in my room, but every detail of my room seemed to be exactly correct. I think it would be extremely difficult to transition from an ISP episode to a lucid dream due to the paralysis and overwhelming terror. Even now, sitting awake and conscious in my living room, its hard for me to conceive of the entity I would see during these episodes as "just a hallucination". In a way, I believe the Shadow Demon that visited me is a type of actual entity, but one that is inexplicably connected to my psyche. What I find fascinating is the similarity of experiences in people who experience this phenomenon across cultural and geographic barriers. Even years after these episodes, I am still greatly affected by them and wonder what makes the "shadow people" a part of our collective iconography. Perhaps they are a sort of Jungian archetype.

Even if you are unable to turn the actual ISP episode into a LD, I do believe the experience of Isolated Sleep Paralysis and the ability to lucid dream may be connected. Perhaps your experiences may help you to achieve LDs easier than most. If you want to lessen the frequency of ISP occurrences, I do have some advice. First of all, try to get at least 7-8 hours of sleep a night. Also, limit stress and depression in your life as much as possible. I found that I had attacks of these sorts much more often during dark periods of my life and that when I made positive changes the frequency of ISP episodes lessened. Talking to a therapist certainly helps as well. I discovered for me ISP is related to a specific childhood trauma.

There were actually two times when the ISP episode transformed from a terrifying experience to an ecstatic one, when I managed to relax into the terror and just let the experience happen. I don't want to go into the details of that experience here, but I after I moved past the terror, I was able to find a bliss I had never experienced before.

I wouldn't have thought that you wouldn't know that you were having SP as your mind is conscious. Personally I've always been lucid during SP.

This is weird... i had over 50 SPs and i was always aware of what is happening...

Let me add a bit to the confusion,As I said I never heard of lucid dreaming until 48 days ago. I always sleep on my side because of Reflux, I was on my side during those SP's last summer that scared the crap out of me but while they were happening I was pinned flat on my back, When finally released I found i was truly on my side where I belonged.

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Originally Posted by woblybil

Let me add a bit to the confusion,As I said I never heard of lucid dreaming until 48 days ago. I always sleep on my side because of Reflux, I was on my side during those SP's last summer that scared the crap out of me but while they were happening I was pinned flat on my back, When finally released I found i was truly on my side where I belonged.

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Then you were dreaming. If you are in SP, you lay exactly like in reality... since you are in reality.

If I want confused then I am now :P