Spiteful subconscious? :P

I wonder if this is a common problem! I'm new, so I hope this hasn't been a recent discussion (it doesn't seem to be?). Anyway...it seems that all my attempts to achieve lucidity are thwarted by my own subconscious! On the occasions that I do remember what I've learned in waking life, when I try to apply them in my dreams they simply don't work. I've had many dreams where I wonder whether I am dreaming, and then recall having read about checking the time/reading something/other reality checks. So, I try to read and re-read times and writing in my dreams -- and can read them all just fine! I know what they say and can read them clearly, so it gives me no indication of whether or not I am dreaming. Or, for example, today I made a first attempt at the WILD method, and while I was lying there trying to do it correctly, I fell asleep and dreamed about lying there trying to do it correctly!! It wasn't until I actually woke up that I realize that I had been dreaming about most of my efforts to dream.

Anyone else have experiences with an obnoxious subconscious that thwarts your every attempt to achieve dream lucidity? :P

Yep, it happens. Sometimes our dreams are incredibly realistic. For instance, I can't use the trick of not being able to read as I can read just fine. However, if I read a line, then another, then try to reread the first, they won't be the same. I can also feel pain, so pinching doesn't work. You may work through several RCs before you find one, or some, which work for you. I personally find the idea that I'm always dreaming, even when I'm awake (in which case the dream is informed by my senses) to work somewhat well for me. Otherwise, I just recognize common themes such as being lost or encountering violence (both of which are fairly rare in my waking life).

There's still hope, there's still options. In fact, the realism and detail of your dreams points to an amazing capacity. Once you do become lucid, it's going to be pretty awesome.

I've only had one lucid dream, and the reality check I used was plugging my nose and trying to breathe like I normally do. If you're breathing while your nose is plugged, then you're dreaming. It's a really good one that works most of the time, so try that one out and see if it works! :)

I do have the same problem with the clock and the reading RC. I can read text just fine as well. I plug my nose as well like CherryBomb said above and this works best for me. You might want to try it out. If this doesn't work either you still have a huge range of RCs to try. I'm sure that one or the other will definitely work for you! :)

Thanks for the tips! I hope I remember them when I fall asleep! :P

yea i can read just fine in dreams (lucid and non). I try not to do reality checks that could become a hindrance do to expectation. Like i expect to be able to read, as i don't want to not able to read when i want to and i don't push my finger through my hand because i want to naturally expect my body to be solid.

Take this advice how you want, but you could try doing dream control related RCs like firebending or growing your nails at will. Or you could even RC by taking a moment to relax and expect to know that you are in a dream by just being aware, if you are infact in one. Most of the time in non-lucids i will know on some level that im dreaming (and it seems many people are like this), but just never take the time to be really aware of the fact.

I think most people can read just fine in dreams, and if they know what it says, it may even not change upon looking at it again. I think this reality check is often misunderstood by people.

This is how I do it:

1. I check the time on a digital alarm clock
2. If it is 2:03 for example, I notice that
3. I look away
4. While looking away, I will the time to change to 5:00
5. I look back expecting it to be 5:00
6. If it is 2:04, I stop and think. I remember that the time has changed since I last looked at it. Could it be because I am dreaming? It could be, although a change from 2:03 to 2:04 could happen in waking life, too. But since the clock changed, I decide that it is safer to repeat the procedure.

Similarly, if I am doing an RC on some other text, I also imagine a different text instead as I am looking away, I visualize the different text. Only then do I look back, expecting the text to have changed.

So the thing is not that we cannot read correctly in dreams: we can! But only in dreams can we expect clocks or text to change to different text, and for it to actually change based on these expectations.

Oh, and pinching oneself is not usually a good RC because it is quite likely that it will hurt in dreams as well because we kind of expect it to hurt. In general, reality checks will likely not work if you expect them to produce the result it would when waking.

Great advice, thank you! I will have to try those two things. The amount of rationalizing I do in dreams is a big hindrance at times (if it can be called rationalization). For example, in the past I have done 'reality checks' (without knowing that's what they're called), such as seeing if I can float when I jump up in the air. When I find that I can, however, I don't think, 'this is a dream'...I think, 'This is the kind of sorcery that is related to demonic possession in the Bible, so this is real and I'm being possessed by Satan". Maybe a little extreme, but it makes perfect rational sense in my dreams (which then turn into nightmares). I suppose this may have to do with not being lucid ENOUGH...

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Originally Posted by jaymeeraine

Great advice, thank you! I will have to try those two things. The amount of rationalizing I do in dreams is a big hindrance at times (if it can be called rationalization). For example, in the past I have done 'reality checks' (without knowing that's what they're called), such as seeing if I can float when I jump up in the air. When I find that I can, however, I don't think, 'this is a dream'...I think, 'This is the kind of sorcery that is related to demonic possession in the Bible, so this is real and I'm being possessed by Satan". Maybe a little extreme, but it makes perfect rational sense in my dreams (which then turn into nightmares). I suppose this may have to do with not being lucid ENOUGH...

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Oh, yes, rationalizing like that unfortunately does happen a lot. The last time I got lucid, I almost failed to become lucid because I started thinking of an absurd rationalization, but luckily I caught myself. Rationalizing is part of fuzzy dream logic. But if one has enough awareness one can stop it.

I have had that happening as well. And when I wake up I just think "Oh my.... How did you not notice that this was a dream? You were so close and you still didn't get it!". That always shows me how incredibly important your awareness is. I actually start thinking that besides practice, consistency and motivation it's ALL about (self)awareness - whenever you do a RC or practice other techniques. never underestimate the importance of awareness. That's why I love ADA, SAT and those Reverse RCs especially combined :)

My subconscious seems to thwart me at every turn. The most obvious occasion was a dream, where I was in a bath and I saw my hands for the one and only time (so far) in a dream...and they were bandaged. The major reality-check item and some sort of subliminal practical joke seems to have been played on me. It would be easy to become paranoid and think that outside forces are maybe at work (who, and for God-knows what reason?) but I still have difficulty in rationalising how my subconscious would have done that accidentally

Oh yes LukeSid. Everything you said applies to me as well. I have had my hands sort of covered in a few dreams as well and since I never actively notice the breathing process in dreams I seem to forget about the nose-plug RC as well (I'm working on that problem by focusing on breathing and hearing sounds while doing my ADA sessions).
Maybe it's the dream-demon wanting to see how determined we are in reaching our goals hahaha.... Anyway, just stay motivated and one day we will get where we want to be :)

[QUOTE=benni;2043560]Oh yes LukeSid. (I'm working on that problem by focusing on breathing and hearing sounds while doing my ADA sessions).

Same here Benni. Here's the list of ADA I'm currently working on.
Breath – Through nose & mouth
Winter breath – cold air in throat and lungs
Feet – Feeling in soles – wearing shoes –bare feet
Legs – muscles when walking
Gravity – climbing – jumping
People’s face’s
Neck when looking round, up or down
Arms – muscles when lifting, stretching
Hands – when touching
Body – when lying in bed
Clothes – colours – feeling
Sun & wind on body, face, hair.
Smells everywhere.
Reality checks
What was I doing 5 minutes ago?
Talk to people
Standing still
Although I'm retired and indoors a lot I'm easily distracted by family -TV-games-pc etc I'm going to talk regular walks (which I used to enjoy) and use the time to work through the different sensations. Maybe there are "dark forces" (or maybe aliens who fear the human race) God knows...I fear the human race

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@LukeSid
Wow that's a lot of things to focus on. Very cool! I am focusing on quite a few of those things as well, but some of those aspects are new to me. I have not yet focused on the temperature of air when breathing in and out - that's quite interesting, I shall do that as well. Thanks :)
Have you done some of the Dream Yoga classes? You might like this one: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-yoga...esson-1-a.html It's primarily focusing on regulating sensory input and especially focusing on everything you can perceive with one given sense (I chose hearing for a start). I thought Level 1 was easy (it's not very hard, but I discovered quite a lot that I never actively noticed! So that can be a HUGE help with ADA practices).

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Originally Posted by jaymeeraine

Great advice, thank you! I will have to try those two things. The amount of rationalizing I do in dreams is a big hindrance at times (if it can be called rationalization). For example, in the past I have done 'reality checks' (without knowing that's what they're called), such as seeing if I can float when I jump up in the air. When I find that I can, however, I don't think, 'this is a dream'...I think, 'This is the kind of sorcery that is related to demonic possession in the Bible, so this is real and I'm being possessed by Satan". Maybe a little extreme, but it makes perfect rational sense in my dreams (which then turn into nightmares). I suppose this may have to do with not being lucid ENOUGH...

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Ha ha, I like the way you rationalise, Jay ;)