Boosting Rem-sleep?

I know that smoking marijuana, drinking alcohol or ingesting other Euphoric ''Depressants'' supress REM-sleep, as it plunges you into a very deep, near coma-like, sleep.

I was wondering wether any of you people here know any technique's as how to BOOST REM-sleep, Possibly Increasing the Vividness and Visual awareness in Dreams?

I know, for one, that when you smoke marijuana regulairly, SUDDENLY STOPPING is said to give you an REM-Rebound resulting in that it gives you very vivid and clear dreams: and more chance to attain lucidity I assume. I want to potentiate my REM-sleep so it lasts longer and acts stronger so my dreams are more vivid, sharp and clear, instead of hazy, foggy and hard to remember.

If anyone of you know an efficient way, nutrician, technique, herb or anything that can Boost the REM-sleep Let me know and post it here.

I'm going to list it all so we can have some oversight:
WHAT BOOSTS/PROLONGS REM-SLEEP :

• When you frequently do ''Depressant'' drugs (Pot, Alcohol..anything that gets you ''down'') STOP for an undefined amount of time.
• The intake of Melatonin
• The intake of Vitamin B6
• Being already well rested before falling asleep.
• Smoking (and/or Drinking Tea From) Dried Calea Zacatechichi ''Dream''Herb
• Drinking Tea made from African DreamRoot

I've heard people use a combination of Melatonin and B6. However doses of B6 above 300mg have been known to cause nightmares and stuff.

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Originally Posted by SKA

I know that smoking marijuana, drinking alcohol or ingesting other Euphoric ''Depressants'' supress REM-sleep, as it plunges you into a very deep, near coma-like, sleep.

I was wondering wether any of you people here know any technique's as how to BOOST REM-sleep, Possibly Increasing the Vividness and Visual awareness in Dreams?

I know, for one, that when you smoke marijuana regulairly, SUDDENLY STOPPING is said to give you an REM-Rebound resulting in that it gives you very vivid and clear dreams: and more chance to attain lucidity I assume. I want to potentiate my REM-sleep so it lasts longer and acts stronger so my dreams are more vivid, sharp and clear, instead of hazy, foggy and hard to remember.

If anyone of you know an efficient way, nutrician, technique, herb or anything that can Boost the REM-sleep Let me know and post it here.
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I have Melatonine as a presciption medicine and my mom's got B6 pills in great piles. I tried it once but at the time my Dream Recall was too messed up.

Okay I'm going to make a list in my First Post. Every Suggestion,psychoactive, technique or anything that boosts and prolongs REM-sleep shall be put down in that list so I can have some oversight on them and try combinations of them.

Alcohol is a no, it kills my recall.

Never tried melatonin and B6.

Pot gave me from what I can remember now, some very "colorful" dreams.

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Originally Posted by blade5x

Alcohol is a no, it kills my recall.

Never tried melatonin and B6.

Pot gave me from what I can remember now, some very "colorful" dreams.
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That may be because Marijuana is, besides a Euphoric Depressant, also somewhat Psychedelic: Something that Potentiates Imagination and Creativity.
However I usually smoke pot during the day when with friends or like now behind the PC.

Perhaps IF the PSYCHEDELIC effect lasts longer than the DEPRESSANT effects, I could try and time when to smoke Pot. So that I enter sleep without The Depressant Effects but still WITh the desirable Psychedelic effects. I'll have to make a personal aware analysis of the psychedelic, euphoric and depressant effects and how long each last.

I don't know about prolonging REM sleep, but I find that having a regular sleep schedule, where you sleep enough helps with recall and LD induction. I think it is the regular REM schedule that hleps more than anything, though I don't think this actualy prolongs it.

Do you keep a dream journal?
How often do you smoke all day (from morning to night) or just occasionally?

I used to smoke all day everyday for about 2 years. Now at the time I wasnt to big into LDing but I did try. I found I had very little to no recall. I recently went on a three week trip with the family (which means it was hard for me to smoke and since it was an international vacation I couldnt smuggle any pot either) I ended up not smokeing for three weeks and decided at the end of the trip to never smoke again.

A couple days after not smoking my dreams were very vivid! Im not sure if it was because my mind wasnt as cloudy from the pot or if it was because I was on vacation and had no real worries. I assume it was a little of both.

My advice to you would be to stop smoking all together it makes my life a lot more productive; however if thats not gonna happen (which is fair I'm not your mother) I would at least try to cut back, smoke once or twice a week. Not only will you get HIGH again but you will find your recall will get better and your functioning throughtout the day will be easier. Also smoking at night right before bed makes recall basically impossible so maybe smoking during the morning or afternoon would also help. And one last thing before I bore you death is a dream journal. Keeping one to write down even the little bit that you remember will go a long way if you keep at it.

I've got a DreamJournal and a Pen Right next to my bed :wink: Lately my dream recall has been improving: However Lately I have been smoking pot almost dayly. Sometimes in periods I just smoke dayly. Then sometimes I decide not to smoke and I don't smoke for 3 weeks. It differs from time to time.

However Marijuana & Dreams still remain an interresting subject since, Allthough Marijuana-highs Supress REMsleep there is also, besides the Depressant effect, The psychedelic effect of weed. It greatly stimulates Imagination and Creativity.

So If I could have the Psychedelic without the Depressant effect. Perhaps if the Psychedelic Effect lasts longer I could time it right so I smoke a Joint, Undergo the Depressant effects, and when they are gone Go to sleep with the Psychedelic effect still in Mind. Some people report very vivid and colorfull dreams after smoking marijuana. I believe due to the slightly Psychedelic effect of Weed.

You know... after stopping for awhile and focusing so much of LDing I noticed when I'm high that I feel just like I'm in a dream. The way everything flows and the lack of attention span and clarity, lol.
So I don't know what kind of implications come with that... harder time attaining lucidity maybe?

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Originally Posted by DyerMaker

You know... after stopping for awhile and focusing so much of LDing I noticed when I'm high that I feel just like I'm in a dream. The way everything flows and the lack of attention span and clarity, lol.
So I don't know what kind of implications come with that... harder time attaining lucidity maybe?
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Yeah well the strange thing about my Dream Recall lately, is that Allthough I still only Remember 1 Complete dream a night (not even every night) throughout the entire day I get ,sometimes very immersive, Flashbacks of older dreams, Dreams I had Earlier that Night, Dreams I had YEARS ago, Dreams I had a Month ago. Like millions of scrambled pieces of information and glances of DreamScenes and Situations.
These flashbacks also consist of emotional ''impressions'' and ''abstract'' thoughts I have for split seconds while also seeing a flash of an old DreamScene.

So it's like My Dreaming Mind is comming more and more into my Waking Life. Perhaps I could also bring my Waking (concious) Mind into my Dreams then.

Now I noticed that people taking evening naps, and morning back to bed naps usually have more vivid and lucid dreams: Appearantly the REM-sleep is most active and lasts longest when you go to sleep being well rested already. Not TOO tired or Stoned or Drunk as it drops you in a deep coma-sleep. The light sleep is desired.

any further suggestions as to what may boost and/or prolong REMsleep?

Calea Zacatechichi will do some absolutely incredible things for prolonging-REM (I don't know if that's physiologically, or if it simply let's you experience more of the REM that you already have) but also boosts vividness.

what is this "dream herb" and how would one abtain it? Just go to GNC? Also.. I smoked weed for 5 years, mabye 2-3 of those were daily. 1-2 years i picked up the habit to smoke before bed. I stopped 3 weeks after getting no where with lucid dreaming, WILD's, or anything of the like. 3 days later, i had the most intense, vivid dream you could imagine. I think i actually became lucid, Ill have to check the dream journal. a week later, i got my first induced lucid dream. Short, but well worth it. It gave me the motivation to keep up the hard work.

On the psychedelic effects, verses the depressive effects... I think your thinking about it backwards. The depressive effects comes well after the psychedlic effects leave. If you eat they can entertwine for a period of time, but you still get both, and not just one. If you want to get a weed psychedelic dream just do this. Smoke the smallest amount of weed possible for a high. Wait out the high until it feels totally gone. Dont eat, and dont sleep. Just ride it out. Then take 2 mgs of melotonin. Or you could not smoke for a while and take 2 mgs of melotonin. The point is, is you still want that creative glow you get from smoking, but also be alert and aware in your dream. Smoking weed just isnt worth it though. You get soo much in return for quitting.

Here is a great place to find info on Calea.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/calea_zacatechichi/

As far as buying it, you can get it from herb shops, local or online, such as iamshaman.com and the like.

It takes a couple of days of use before the effects really began to surface, which is why many people try it a few times and quit but I ordered enough to experiment for about a month with and really enjoyed it. If you ask me, it doesn't help much with becoming lucid (in the "recognizing the dream state" sense, but it makes your dreams much more vivid and prolonged (dreams can seem to last all night.)

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Here is a great place to find info on Calea.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/calea_zacatechichi/

As far as buying it, you can get it from herb shops, local or online, such as iamshaman.com and the like.

It takes a couple of days of use before the effects really began to surface, which is why many people try it a few times and quit but I ordered enough to experiment for about a month with and really enjoyed it. If you ask me, it doesn't help much with becoming lucid (in the "recognizing the dream state" sense, but it makes your dreams much more vivid and prolonged (dreams can seem to last all night.)
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Hey I read the Vaults of Erowid almost Every Day :wink:

Yeah I've read about this Calea Zacatechichi Dreamhebr and told the Local New age store to try and get it in their new herbal corner they're setting up. But I can Easily order it at a Dutch Smartshop and have it Delivered within 24 hours without any transport-costs :| why o why haven't I done that yet. I beieve I can even pay Cash when he Delivery man is at the door. :content:

www.azarius.nl Bless this free Country :content:

Hahaha. Cash at the door??
That's f'ckin Nice. :cooler:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Hahaha. Cash at the door??
That's f'ckin Nice. :cooler:
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yeah real sweeeet and oh Sh*t I just found out I can get 50 GRAMS for €15,- That's a nice, reasonable price :content: Yeah I might order those soon.

PS: And also soon I'm going to Order These DMT-containing Dried Psychotria Viridis Plants
These dried plants are actually to be used to prepare Ayahuashca Brews but any FOOL could EXTRACT The DMT-Alkaloids from the dried plant material resulting in having A crystal white powder: DMT in it's Purest form which can be smoked to induce shortlasting ( Max=1hour) powerfull immersive (as in Salvia immersive) visionary states.

So what if you used the african dream herb after you smoked weed?

Oh and I used to do salvia and I didnt like it much. Though I did until a bad trip. Which eventually after going through the salvia website, meditation books and so on led me to this site. But anyway it's nothing like salvia right??

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Originally Posted by Pyrox

So what if you used the african dream herb after you smoked weed?

Oh and I used to do salvia and I didnt like it much. Though I did until a bad trip. Which eventually after going through the salvia website, meditation books and so on led me to this site. But anyway it's nothing like salvia right??
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Oh hell no, not even close.
DMT of which I spoke comes somewhat close: That, and Salvia, will bring a Really Awareness shifting trip with severely altered perception and''being gone'' as if you were somewhere in Psychedelic Hyperspace for an Hour or so.

Smoking Calea Zacatechichi and/or Drinking Calea Zacatechichi Tea WILL bring a slightly Psychedelic, relaxing mood, said to possibly deliver MINOR hallucinations, mainly Auditory: hearing voices and Many vivid Closed eyes Visuals ( a Slightly Schizophrenic herb :wink: ) Nothing too intense at all. The REAL magic of this Herb is Experienced during SLEEP after having ingested Calea Dreamherb, be it smoked and/or drunk in a Tea.


It seems to boost Imagination, bring a slight trance like state of Mind with weak hallucinations ( think more like ''Hyper Imagination'': being able to Project the ''Images in your head'' Easier into and with Imagination slightly alter your Real Enviroment.)

AFRICAN Dream Herb, however, is ANOTHER dream herb as Calea: Calea is a South-American Herb, Mexican I believe.
I've heard of 2 African Dream herbs, one being a huge brown Bean that float around the world's oceans and wash up on shores and the other being the Root of another plant used by Shamans in the North-eastern Region of South-Africa.

Behold: Calea DreamHerb African Dream Root
Both these 2 Herbs Seem to do little to you while awake, but will SKYROCKET Hypnagogia as you fall asleep, giving you VERY colorfull and Vivid Dreams.

I'm going to Add The AFRICAN DREAMROOT to the list too. and I might order it from azarius.nl too :wink:

P.S.: For all of those who think it's pathetic to do all sorts of Psycho-active and Spiritual methods Experiments based on ''mere'' Speculations: Read this and see how it is a good thing that there's people out there Experimenting away and Finding out some Interresting things that may apply to others too:
Read this

i strongly recommend calea as well...actually it's been awhile...think i'll have a huge cup o tea tonight :wink:

also been waiting on some african dreamroot for months (backordered) but i'll let you know...

some studies have suggested that small doses of tryptamines boost REM sleep. i've eaten small doses of mushrooms right before bed (all under a gram) and had varying effects. one night nothing seemed extraordinary...another, i had crazy vivid dreams. and many of them at that.

happy dreaming!

Thanks SKA-

Wow... I'm very interested in this.

Is this legal in the US? And is it expensive?

Questions for people that use it :

Does it create better recall in the morning?
Is it easier to get LDs once ingested?
Does it increase vividness and control in LDs?
It would seem with the hypnagogia increased that a WILD would be easier to obtain. Is this so?

Thanks alot :D

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Originally Posted by Pyrox

Thanks SKA-

Wow... I'm very interested in this.

Is this legal in the US? And is it expensive?

Questions for people that use it :

Does it create better recall in the morning?
Is it easier to get LDs once ingested?
Does it increase vividness and control in LDs?
It would seem with the hypnagogia increased that a WILD would be easier to obtain. Is this so?

Thanks alot :D
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Yes, it's legal in the US.
As far as recall, it depends. For me, it makes my dreams much more potent, so there is a better chance I remember them in the morning.
As far as LDs, it usually causes more weird shit to happen in my dreams, so if you are good at picking up dreamsigns or dream "weirdness," which I'm only moderately good at, I think it could help a lot. Nothing really noticeable, to me, but I've had plenty of LDs on Calea.
Vividness - Absolutely. Calea has given me some of the most vivid dreams I've ever had - Even in LDs. They can be completely overwhelming, sometimes. Control is sometimes a gamble because the dreams are often so vivid and intense, it's hard to exert a lot of influence over them, but not always.
The hypnogogia is incredible, but I've never been great at WILDs, so someone can probably answer that question a little better than me. I haven't noticed anything that stands out..
BUT...the hypnogogia can be so intense that you seem to slip into momentary dreams. That easy transition, I'm assuming, can help in WILD, but I usually change scenes or surface back and forth to and from normal hypnogogia before I really get any chances to induce lucidity within the images.

Thanks for the reply. But with increased vividness wouldn't be easier to remember? Or is that what you meant be potent?

I've looked around and found it to be around $5/oz. Is this a good price, because I'm thinking about ordering tonight. Lately my dreams have been a little less vivid than I'd like, so I really want to try it.

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Originally Posted by Pyrox

Thanks for the reply. But with increased vividness wouldn't be easier to remember? Or is that what you meant be potent?
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Well, you have to remember that there are many different variables that affect dream recall - how much sleep you get, sleeping position (for some), stress, anticipation, focus, apathy. They all play some role. For someone with sleeping habits as erradic as mine, it's hard to say, with any certainty, if something is or isn't guaranteed to give me something like good recall. But yea, I think that, if increased vividness is something that's going to make you remember your dreams better (which it usually does for me, but, like I said, not always) then yeah, it should work great for you.

And that's a good price. I got 4oz for about $20, here, so that's not bad at all.

So herb shops sell it for that price too?

And it sells in vitamin shops or smoke shops? I don't really know of a herb shop around here.. I need to know because I'm going to cruise around looking for it.

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Originally Posted by Pyrox

So herb shops sell it for that price too?

And it sells in vitamin shops or smoke shops? I don't really know of a herb shop around here.. I need to know because I'm going to cruise around looking for it.
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I actually don't know any shops you can get it from, I got mine online. :wink:

Ok well I'll look into.

Has anyone ever tried Calea extract? I'm interested in trying different herbs that may help with dreamwork, and I saw on basementshaman.com they sell both the plant and an extract. I'm not too interested in smoking it, I'd rather ingest it via teas or whatever. I'm not sure which of these would have the potential for a greater impact.

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Originally Posted by SoulSearcherX

Has anyone ever tried Calea extract? I'm interested in trying different herbs that may help with dreamwork, and I saw on basementshaman.com they sell both the plant and an extract. I'm not too interested in smoking it, I'd rather ingest it via teas or whatever. I'm not sure which of these would have the potential for a greater impact.
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Well Drinking Calea Tea and Smoking dried Calea: It is recommended to Both drink a Calea Tea and smoke a Calea smoke in the morning to reach maximum effect in the Night. This is how the Indians who commonly used Calea DreamHerb did it.

If you're not a smoker then well...it's up to you what you do with the herb.

BTW Making an Extract of Calea (Or almost ANY Alkaloid/Psychoactive Containing plant) is CHILDS PLAY. eaasy. so I might try that too. and see if I can home-make extract(which is more potent cuz it's pure) from Calea Dried plantmaterial and see if I end up paying LESS for the extract than Smartshops and Hebralists ask for it.

I stopped using marijuana several months ago, but even before I did I had switched to using a vaporizor because I had difficulty with the smoke. So if calea would work with that vaporizor, which has a fixed temperature and therefore may not work with every plant, I could try that. I recently tried mugwort with it and I was not able to get any noticeable vapor the way I did with weed.

How do you make an extract? Just by soaking the plant in some alcohol?

I reccomend the 10x concentrated calea. It is quite a bit more expensive (about $20.00 for 3 grams) but you don't have to smoke as much. I get much better results from the 10x. I have a hard time smoking enough to have much of an affect with the non concentrate.

I also reccomned trying the tea, just to say that you have. It is..... unique. Most people can't handle the taste, I can barely handle it. Keep in mind that it is not really economical to make the tea with the 10x though, since you can get 28 grams of the non concentrated for $7.00.

I have been reading on Salvia, and honestly... I think I am too big of a chicken to try it. It certainly sounds cool, but the bad trips seem.... very bad. It is crazy to think how much psychological damage people can get from a 5 minute trip.

Anyway, good luck with the Calea and go for the 10x, it is worth it IMHO.

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Originally Posted by SKA

Yeah well the strange thing about my Dream Recall lately, is that Allthough I still only Remember 1 Complete dream a night (not even every night) throughout the entire day I get ,sometimes very immersive, Flashbacks of older dreams, Dreams I had Earlier that Night, Dreams I had YEARS ago, Dreams I had a Month ago. Like millions of scrambled pieces of information and glances of DreamScenes and Situations.
These flashbacks also consist of emotional ''impressions'' and ''abstract'' thoughts I have for split seconds while also seeing a flash of an old DreamScene.

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Lately this has been happening to me. But I really can't say how long ago the dreams were.

I remembered a dream where I thought I had it a long time ago, but wonder if it was just the preceding night. I just get the feeling and an image with it, but nothing else. It's confusing, because I wonder why I was feeling the way I did.

It is really strange how this happens. I didn't even really think about it until you mentioned it.

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Originally Posted by carlhungis

I reccomend the 10x concentrated calea. It is quite a bit more expensive (about $20.00 for 3 grams) but you don't have to smoke as much. I get much better results from the 10x. I have a hard time smoking enough to have much of an affect with the non concentrate.

I also reccomned trying the tea, just to say that you have. It is..... unique. Most people can't handle the taste, I can barely handle it. Keep in mind that it is not really economical to make the tea with the 10x though, since you can get 28 grams of the non concentrated for $7.00.

I have been reading on Salvia, and honestly... I think I am too big of a chicken to try it. It certainly sounds cool, but the bad trips seem.... very bad. It is crazy to think how much psychological damage people can get from a 5 minute trip.

Anyway, good luck with the Calea and go for the 10x, it is worth it IMHO.
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yeah in fact I just filled in an ordering form ofAzarius smartshop to order the 10X Cale extract. In the end it's more effective in lower doses and thus cheaper.
But I see I can also call them so I think I'll pick up the phone and order some today ;) I've been wanting to try this for months so I'll just go and order it now .

Hey,

Last year I experimented with DMT every weekend. It was by far the best drug I have ever taken, and I have pretty much taken them all. It is very akin to Lucid Dreaming because when you "break though" you actually enter an entirely new realm of existence, and "what arrests my attention is, this space, is inhabited" (McKenna)... it blew my effing mind wide open. It is also similar to Astral Projection, particularly the "ascentding process". There is a zinging vibration that happens in your head and within a few seconds you blast off and into a new world.

Each time I entered this alternate reality I was so overwhelmed by something that I remembered that I forgot in normal reality that I couldn't believe it. How could I have forgotten that! It was so huge that I would cover my head in this new world and keep my face on the ground. The birds would be singing (yes, there are birds!) and "beings" would be around but I dared not look up for this disrespectful forgetting!

"I'm sorry. I;m sorry. I'm sorry. I'm Sorry, " I would repeat in earnest. The beings often showed me snippets of my life, even my past thoughts that "weren't to my benefit". hese images made me appologise even more. I remember the first time I broke through after a ppologising in responce to these images they (about 6 unseen beings) said, "You don't need to be sorry, stop saying sorry."

"Sorry," I replied and we all laughed. It was beautiful.

I only stopped using it because I got some 5meod DMT which was a white powder instead of the nice yellow of the other stuff. That was a fifteen minute hell... the vibration almost fried my brain and I vommited all over the place. Even though I kept reassuring myself that no one had ever dies using tryptamines I really thought I would be the first... maybe there were impurities in the mix... haven't done it since, but I would like to if I knew of a reliable source.

I checked out the "Iamshaman Shop" and you can get Salvia there!? What the? That shit is Po-tent! I can't believe it could be legal anywhere. That was probably the second most intense drug experience I ever had. Never a bad one, but I could sense one coming on, so I stopped. Same with Shrooms.

Peace out,

Rob.

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Originally Posted by Daen

Hey,

Last year I experimented with DMT every weekend. It was by far the best drug I have ever taken, and I have pretty much taken them all. It is very akin to Lucid Dreaming because when you "break though" you actually enter an entirely new realm of existence, and "what arrests my attention is, this space, is inhabited" (McKenna)... it blew my effing mind wide open. It is also similar to Astral Projection, particularly the "ascentding process". There is a zinging vibration that happens in your head and within a few seconds you blast off and into a new world.

Each time I entered this alternate reality I was so overwhelmed by something that I remembered that I forgot in normal reality that I couldn't believe it. How could I have forgotten that! It was so huge that I would cover my head in this new world and keep my face on the ground. The birds would be singing (yes, there are birds!) and "beings" would be around but I dared not look up for this disrespectful forgetting!

"I'm sorry. I;m sorry. I'm sorry. I'm Sorry, " I would repeat in earnest. The beings often showed me snippets of my life, even my past thoughts that "weren't to my benefit". hese images made me appologise even more. I remember the first time I broke through after a ppologising in responce to these images they (about 6 unseen beings) said, "You don't need to be sorry, stop saying sorry."

"Sorry," I replied and we all laughed. It was beautiful.

I only stopped using it because I got some 5meod DMT which was a white powder instead of the nice yellow of the other stuff. That was a fifteen minute hell... the vibration almost fried my brain and I vommited all over the place. Even though I kept reassuring myself that no one had ever dies using tryptamines I really thought I would be the first... maybe there were impurities in the mix... haven't done it since, but I would like to if I knew of a reliable source.

I checked out the "Iamshaman Shop" and you can get Salvia there!? What the? That shit is Po-tent! I can't believe it could be legal anywhere. That was probably the second most intense drug experience I ever had. Never a bad one, but I could sense one coming on, so I stopped. Same with Shrooms.

Peace out,

Rob.
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Yeah DMT ( NN,DMT) is naturally occuring in the human brain too. It is most probably the substance for psychedelic experiences such as dreams. The ''stuff dreams are made of''? I can't get my hands on pure DMT. And the variant of DMT you smoked and went bad on was most probably 5HO-DMT, A.K.A Bufotenin: It is know as a fear drug inducing heavy duty fear. 5MEO-DMT is know to be a weaker DMT that is potent in much lower doses than NN,DMT so if you dosed yourself with 5MEO,DMT the way you'd normally dose yourself with NN,DMT you probably took waaaaay too much which could also have been the cause for the overly intense experience.


Well I ordered 2 packs of Calea DreamHerb Extract X10 and I actually know the owner of the SmartShop :P She said it would either be arriving tomorrow or the day after. Well I cannot wait. I shall post any results it may have on my dreams in my ''Psychedelic experiences'' topic for all of you to read.

PS: She also told me that they might have Pure, smokable DMT for sale there soon too. I'll be the first to buy it :wink:

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Originally Posted by carlhungis

I have been reading on Salvia, and honestly... I think I am too big of a chicken to try it. It certainly sounds cool, but the bad trips seem.... very bad. It is crazy to think how much psychological damage people can get from a 5 minute trip.[/b]

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Try chewing it, it's a lot less intense that way and lasts longer. I haven't broken through with it but felt some effects...nothing like any accounts of a full blown experience though! It just affected my vision and my balance; it felt like I was 'back home' or 'somewhere I've been before'; like I was being watched, not in a creepy way; realizing the big cosmic joke...etc. I want to get some more and try to go further, it's supposed to have a reverse tolerance thing: the more you do it, the stronger it gets. It tastes bad! That's an understatement but I recommend chewing it, I'm too chicken to smoke it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("SKA")</div>

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Yeah DMT ( NN,DMT) is naturally occuring in the human brain too. It is most probably the substance for psychedelic experiences such as dreams. The &#39;&#39;stuff dreams are made of&#39;&#39;?[/b]

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It&#39;s supposed to be released by the pineal gland at birth (I think) and at the moment of death, although I&#39;m not sure if that&#39;s speculation or fact. Could account for near-death experiences and &#39;the afterlife&#39;?....

Changing the subject slightly, I think another way to increase REM sleep is to take substances which actually increase Non REM sleep when you take them, so you get a rebound effect when they start to wear off, and much longer REM (i.e., at the end of the night, when REM preiods are normally longest anyway).

Melatonin will work in this way (by increasing Non REM sleep after you take it), as does Diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Nytol/ Benadryl), and other antihistamines generally.

This is possibly why some people just get zonked out when they take antihistamines, whereas other people remember really vivid, intense dreams ~ basically, you have to allow time for the Nytol (or whatever) to work through your system, and start to wear off (usually, about 4-8 hours I think), so you get the REM rebound.

Diphenhydramine is also anticholinergic (knocks back Acetylcholine), which means you also ~ potentially anyway ~ get a Choline rebound when it starts to wear off. Waking up after 4/5 hours and taking something like DMAE, Ginkgo, Lecithin or some other form of Choline supplement could increase this effect & also your chances of having longer & more vivid dreams.

Actually, thinking about it, I guess if you take ANY Choline supplement (such as CDP Choline, DMAE, Alpha GPC, etc), this would probably boost your REM sleep by itself, since I think this is one of the main functions (or effects) of Acetylcholine anyway.. ? :content:

i&#39;ve found calea works best when both tea and smoking are used in conjunction. either by itself is less effective.

for myself, a medium handful of leaves steeped for half an hour for the tea.
a calea "joint" with a tic tack size portion of 10X extract mixed in with plain leaf.

tea, then joint.
other methods have disappointed, and even seemed to affect my dream recall/vividness negatively.
however, the combo above is guaranteed to induce long, vivid, interconnected dreams everytime.

each person is different, but i have found that shamanistic cultures use certain techniques of ingestion for a reason...they do have thousands of years worth of experience by which trial and error has refined their knowledge.

simply look at auyahusca (sp?). they may not have explicitly known the chemical reasons for why separately inactive plants synergized so powerfully when combined in a specific way, but they arrived at the same practial knowledge via experience.

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as far as salvia goes...i highly recommend the following for beginners: try each method in succession (preferably on separate days) until you are introduced. you will know when you are *laughs*

1. try the quid method (chewing 5-10 plain leaves for 15 minutes, holding the juices near the back of your throat as much as possible)
up the dosage by two or three leaves on each occasion until you feel the effects.
(if you have a scale, weigh 5-10 six inch long leaves for a starting point, and increase weight by 0.5-1 grams each time...this is more accurate)

2. when you feel comfortable with mild-moderate effects, smoke 1-3 large inhalations of plain leaf from a water bong with ice in it, holding in as long as possible.

for some, plain leaf will be all they ever need...reactions to salvia are widely varied. (personally, i mix my own blend of 3X which is sufficiently potent)

3. if all else fails, and one still hasn&#39;t "broken through", try 5 or 6X standardized extract in a water bong.

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oh, and for anyone seriously interested in this wonderful, powerful, very unique plant, there exists a forum dedicated almost exclusively to it...http://www.entheo-worldeyes.org/

there is a brief application process to keep the foolish and intolerant away, but the members are extremely helpful, particularly concerning advice on dosages, settings, working with the effects, etc.

a few more hippie new agey types than most places, but the advice of some there has been indispensable in my own work with this ally. highly recommended.

if you need a user-reference to jump any cue, PM me for my username :wink:

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Originally Posted by Jess

It&#39;s supposed to be released by the pineal gland at birth (I think) and at the moment of death, although I&#39;m not sure if that&#39;s speculation or fact. Could account for near-death experiences and &#39;the afterlife&#39;?....
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Yeah It is released in the Pineal Gland.It&#39;s been held accountable for near-death experiences and Ufo-abductions: A bright white light comming towards them, feeling safe, feeling zoned out, traveling to that light, having contact with entities..etc. Each person interprest it differently (Astral Travel to a &#39;&#39;higher place&#39;&#39;, UFO abduction with Alien entities), but the things they&#39;ve seen are the same. It is know that people with Schizophrenia have way to high levels of DMT circulating. It&#39;s like their natural flow of DMT in the pineal gland is way out of balance and thus they are constantly hallucinating hard. It would explain why they are so difficult to communicate with too. Ever tried communicating on shrooms? Those who have tried will know what I mean.I speak from experience . I know a guy with schizophrenia.

And it is also held accountable for our dreams. Perhaps it is released in that REM-phase and that&#39;s why we&#39;re suddenly tripping hard; Cuz that&#39;s what dreaming is when you think about it. You are unconcious and paralised, your eyes are trembling like crazy, shocks may come over you, you comletely hallucinate a complete Visual scenerey, imaginairy people, Imaginairy sounds, Imaginairy emotions all Wrapped up in a very odd Imaginairy story, and you believe you are there because it&#39;s so all around you and Immersive, while really you&#39;re just lying unconcious in a dark bedroom. Isn&#39;t that the every night &#39;&#39;Trip&#39;&#39; we have? Wonderfull nature.

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Changing the subject slightly, I think another way to increase REM sleep is to take substances which actually increase Non REM sleep when you take them, so you get a rebound effect when they start to wear off, and much longer REM (i.e., at the end of the night, when REM preiods are normally longest anyway).

Melatonin will work in this way (by increasing Non REM sleep after you take it), as does Diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Nytol/ Benadryl), and other antihistamines generally.[/b]

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Actually I have been taking 3mg Melatonin pills every night because I always have trouble falling asleep. It whiped out my dream Recall for years. Actually when I decided to stop taking them my dream recall returned to me.

As for Benadryl and such Anti-histamine drinks: They just knock you out cold. I have such a drink: Promethazine, I don&#39;t know it may be the same as benadryl but then with a different name. When I take it I just go K.O. and wake up with 0 dreamrecall thinking: &#39;&#39;huh, did I fall asleep?&#39;&#39; It Kills my REM-sleep.

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Originally Posted by SKA

so if you dosed yourself with 5MEO,DMT the way you&#39;d normally dose yourself with NN,DMT you probably took waaaaay too much which could also have been the cause for the overly intense experience.

PS: She also told me that they might have Pure, smokable DMT for sale there soon too. I&#39;ll be the first to buy it :wink:
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Yep. That&#39;s exactly what happened. After experiementing with about 14 trips of the "nice" yellow DMT I had I learned that you couldn&#39;t be a pussy about it and you had to smoke enough (more than a match head) to break through into hyperspace. So I foolishly took a similar amount of this nasty, white shit andbang, I was gone.

I wonder if we could stimulate the release of DMT in our brains using Hypnosis... or increase production... must do some research. Ska, maybe you and I can write up a script for said hypnosis, based on good research though. Everyone should get to experience DMT.

Peace.

P.S. You can get DMT? I don&#39;t understand. That&#39;s fucking crazy... my address is 60 Lyon Street, Repton. NSW. 2454. Australia... I will make sure you are well paid. =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daen

Yep. That&#39;s exactly what happened. After experiementing with about 14 trips of the "nice" yellow DMT I had I learned that you couldn&#39;t be a pussy about it and you had to smoke enough (more than a match head) to break through into hyperspace. So I foolishly took a similar amount of this nasty, white shit andbang, I was gone.

I wonder if we could stimulate the release of DMT in our brains using Hypnosis... or increase production... must do some research. Ska, maybe you and I can write up a script for said hypnosis, based on good research though. Everyone should get to experience DMT.

Peace.

P.S. You can get DMT? I don&#39;t understand. That&#39;s fucking crazy... my address is 60 Lyon Street, Repton. NSW. 2454. Australia... I will make sure you are well paid. =)
[/b]

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Yeah ways of stimulating the natural DMT flow in the Pineal gland. I&#39;ve been thinking of tyhat alot. I think perhaps substances such as MDMA, Acid and Psilocybin/Psilocyn may do that in a short temporary way. I don&#39;t know it&#39;s never been checked scientifically. They should check DMT levels for possibly rising destinctively and temporarily in Acid, MDMA, and Mushroom-tripping people.

However it wouldn&#39;t be wise to screw around too much with the Pineal Gland&#39;s release of DMT: Last thing you want is to permanently destabilise it&#39;s DMT release: I ASSUME you could become schizophrenic, or at least very very psychologically messed up, by doing that too much.

I am defenitively intrerrested in finding wyas, perhaps with Smartdrugs and Other nutricians combined, perhaps herbs with certain subtile alkaloids, to see if the DMT flow can be boosted. Not on a long term but Quickly and alot of it at once. That would make for a noticable conciousness expanding experience perhaps.

See if you can find any info on the Pineal Gland, what substances circulate there, and what may possibly Stimulate and significantly increase the release of DMT. So will I.

PS: About the DMT. I haven&#39;t seen Pure Smokable NN,DMT in their sales yet. I&#39;ve spoken to the Smartshop owner when I saw her recently at LowLands Festival and she said that they WOULD be having it some time in the future. I&#39;ll let you know then, but I&#39;ll bet my money on it that it will be forbidden in Australia which has very strict and many druglaws. However the SmartStore Azarius DOES sell DMT-holding dried plant material such as Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark, Canary Reed Grass(Phalaris Arundinacea), Desmanthus illinois and Psychotria Viridis as parts of DIY-Ayahuashca brewing kits.

I have just checked and all of these products have NO shipping restrictions to ANYwhere in the world, meaning you can order them and have them shipped according to the law I assume.
When a product is illigal somewhere, there are Shipping restrictions to that country.
Usually while the Pure substances are forbidden the crude plant materials containing these alkaloids are legal and allowed to buy.
You&#39;d only need to figure out a very clean way of extracting as pure as possible NN,DMT. I know an efficient way but I don&#39;t know if the Result will be very clean DMT. It involves Pure (Ethanol) Alcohol to extract Alkaloids by filtering the DMT-less plant m,aterial from the in alcohol solved Alkaloids and putting that DMT Residue in Water mixed with Vinigar as a weak acidic bath to solve and filter out fats that may still be attatched to the DMT. I&#39;d rather not use Alkalid solving substances such as PoolCleaning fluids, as is often suggested, because that is too toxic to afford having ANYTHING left lingering in the DMT-residue you plan to Smoke. Therefor Ethanol alcohol will be much better for the Job: Leaves behind no residual substances: it&#39;s pure alcohol and vaporises pretty fast, leaving the DMT-residue dry and free of any residues from the Ethanol.

But I&#39;d prefer to buy it From the SmartStore when they have it for sale. It was grown and made by Professionals in the Department;It&#39;ll surely be the Cleanest, most effective DMT.
A child could do it basically. Of course, if it would get you in trouble with the Laws in your country I wouldn&#39;t suggest doiing it off course :wink: :wink: :wink: